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Failure of the “compensation argument” and implausibility of evolution

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Granville Sewell and Daniel Styer have a thing in common: both wrote an article with the same title “Entropy and evolution”. But they reach opposite conclusions on a fundamental question: Styer says that the evolutionist “compensation argument” (henceforth “ECA”) is ok, Sewell says it isn’t. Here I briefly explain why I fully agree with Granville. The ECA is an argument that tries to resolve the problems the 2nd law of statistical mechanics (henceforth 2nd_law_SM) posits to unguided evolution. I adopt Styer’s article as ECA archetype because he also offers calculations, which make clearer its failure.

The 2nd_law_SM as problem for evolution.

The 2nd_law_SM says that a isolated system goes toward its more probable macrostates. In this diagram the arrow represents the 2nd_law_SM rightward trend/direction:

organization … improbable_states … systems ====>>> probable_states

Sewell says:

“The second law is all about using probability at the microscopic level to predict macroscopic change. […] This statement of the second law, or at least of the fundamental principle behind the second law, is the one that should be applied to evolution.”

The physical evolution of a isolated system passes spontaneously through macrostates with increasing values of probability until arriving to equilibrium (the most probable macrostate). Since organization is highly improbable a corollary of the 2nd_law_SM is that isolated systems don’t self-organize. That is the opposite of what biological evolution pretends.

See the picture:

cs1

Styer’s ECA.

Since the 2nd_law_SM applies to isolated systems the ECA says: the Earth E is not a isolated system, then its entropy can decrease thanks to an entropy increase (compensation) in the surroundings S (wrt to the energy coming from the Sun). Unfortunately to consider open the systems is useless, because, as Sewell puts it:

“If an increase in order is extremely improbable when a system is closed, it is still extremely improbable when the system is open, unless something is entering which makes it not extremely improbable.”

Here is how Styer applies the ECA to show that “evolution is consistent with the 2nd law”.
Suppose that, due to evolution, each individual organism is 1000 times more improbable that the corresponding individual was 100 years ago (Emory Bunn says 1000 times is incorrect, it should be 10^25 times, but this is a detail). If Wi is the number of microstates consistent with the specification of an initial organism I 100 years ago, and Wf is the number of microstates consistent with the specification of today’s improved and less probable organism F, then

Wf = Wi / 1000

At this point he uses Boltzmann’s formula:

S = k * ln (W)

where S = entropy, W = number of microstates, k = 1.38 x 10^-23 joules/degrees, ln = logarithm.

Then he calculates the entropy change over 100 years, and finally the entropy decrease per second:

Sf – Si = -3.02 x 10^-30 joules/degrees

By considering all individuals of all species he gets the change in entropy of the biosphere each second: -302 joules/degrees. Since he knows that the Earth’s physical entropy throughput (due to energy from the Sun) each second is: 420 x 10^12 joules/degrees he concludes: “at a minimum the Earth is bathed in about one trillion times the amount of entropy flux required to support the rate of evolution assumed here”, then evolution is largely consistent with the 2nd law.

The problem in Styer’s argument (and in general in the ECA).

Although it could seem an innocent issue of measure units the introduction of the Boltzmann’s formula with k = 1.38 x 10^-23 joules/degrees in this context is a conceptual error. With such formula the ECA has transformed a difficult problem of probability (in connection with the arise of ultra-complex organized systems) into a simple issue of energy (“joule” is unit of energy, work, or amount of heat). This assumes a priori that energy is able to organize organisms from sparse atoms. But such assumption is totally gratuitous and unproved. That energy can do that is exactly what the ECA should prove in the first place. So Styer’s ECA begs the question.

Similarly Andy McIntosh (cited by Sewell) says:

Both Styer and Bunn calculate by slightly different routes a statistical upper bound on the total entropy reduction necessary to ‘achieve’ life on earth. This is then compared to the total entropy received by the Earth for a given period of time. However, all these authors are making the same assumption—viz. that all one needs is sufficient energy flow into a [non-isolated] system and this will be the means of increasing the probability of life developing in complexity and new machinery evolving. But as stated earlier this begs the question…

The Boltzmann’s formula in the ECA, with its introduction of joules of energy, establishes a bridge between probabilities and the joules coming from the Sun. Unfortunately this link is unsubstantiated here because no one has proved that joules cause biological organization. On the contrary, in my previous post “The illusion of organizing energy” I explained why any kind of energy per se cannot create organization in principle. To greater reason, thermal energy is unable to the task. In fact, heat is the more degraded and disordered kind of energy, the one with maximum entropy. So the ECA would contain also an internal contradiction: by importing entropy in E one decreases entropy in E!

The problem of Boltzmann’s formula, as used in the ECA, is then “to buy” probability bonus with energy “money”. Sewell expresses the same concept with different words:

The compensation argument is predicated on the idea […] that the universal currency for entropy is thermal entropy.

That conversion / compensation is not allowed if one hasn’t proved at the outset a direct causation role of energy in producing the effect, biological organization, which is in the opposite direction of the 2nd_law_SM rightward arrow (extreme left on the above diagram). In a sense the ECA conflates two different planes. This wrong conflation is like to say that a roulette placed inside a refrigerated room can easily output 1 million “black” in a row because its entropy is decreased compared to the outside.

Note that evolution doesn’t imply a single small deviation from the trend, quite differently it implies countless highly improbable processes happened continually in countless organisms during billion years. Who claims that evolution doesn’t violate the 2nd_law_SM, would doubt a violation if countless tornados always turned rubble into houses, cars and computers for billion years? Sewell asks (backward tornado is the metaphor he uses more). In conclusion Roger Caillois is right: “Clausius and Darwin cannot both be right.”

Implausibility of evolution.

Styer’s paper is also an opportunity to see the problem of evolution from a probabilistic viewpoint. You will note the huge difference of difficulty of the probabilistic scenario compared to the above enthusiastic thermal entropy scenario, with potentially 1,000,000,000,000 times evolution!
In Appendix #2 he proposes a problem for students: “How much improved and less probable would each organism be, relative to its (possibly single-celled) ancestor at the beginning of the Cambrian explosion? (Answer: 10 raised to the 1.8 x 10^22 times)”. Call this monster number “a”, Wi = the initial microstates, Wf = the final microstates, W = the total microstates. According to Styer’s answer (which is correct as calculation) we have:

Wf = Wi / a

The probability of the initial macrostate is Wi / W. The probability of the final macrostate is Wf / W. Suppose Wf = 1, then Wi is = a. W must be equal or greater a otherwise (Wi / W) would be greater than 1 (impossible). Therefore the probability to occur of the final macrostate is:

(Wf / W) equal or less (1 / a)

This is the probability of evolution of a single individual organism in the Cambrian:

1 on 10 raised to the 1.8 x 10^22

a number with more than 10^22 digits (10 trillion billion digits). This miraculous event had to occur 10^18 times, for each of other organisms.

Dembski’s “universal probability bound” is:

1 / 10^150

1 on a number with “only” 150 digits. Therefore evolution is far beyond the plausibility threshold. In conclusion: the ECA fails to prove that “evolution is consistent with the 2nd law”, and we have also a proof of the implausibility of evolution based on probability.

Some could object: “you cannot have both ways, if the ECA is wrong then Appendix #2 is wrong too, because it uses the same method, then the evolution probability is not correct”.
Answer: the method is biased toward evolution both in ECA and in Appendix #2. This means the evolution probability is even worse than that, and the implausibility of evolution holds to greater reason.

Comments
Piotr:
Parent plants do provide their embryos with a store of nutrients (starch, oil, essential amino acids, vitamins, etc.), which serve as the source of free energy (and of entropy to be exported in compensation) for the seedling. This is the part of the young plant’s thermodynamic bill which is paid by the previous generation. Once they consume this store, they have to start fending for themselves.
Your position cannot account for plants, Piotr.Joe
April 11, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman: It does not have real existence but we can choose to act as if it did. As you yourself pointed out, "we attach generic names to units characterised by a certain, rather arbitrary, degree of relationship. It’s a 'rank' defined by humans, not a natural one." You are now claiming that the acorn/oak system is the one true natural rank. Whether you ascribe the acorn/oak system some sort of "ultimate" reality, the whole system still has to grapple with the flow of entropy in order to grow or reproduce. The rest of your comment, much like your last several comments, is on the line of "You can't understand the brilliance of my position, so there's no point explaining it to you."Zachriel
April 11, 2015
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zac says, Sure. We can treat the acorn/oak as a system. Indeed, that’s the usual way in evolutionary biology. I say, There you have it once again "We can treat". It does not have real existence but we can choose to act as if it did. What I find amazing is you don't even realize that you are conceding my point every time you say something like this. peacefifthmonarchyman
April 11, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman: The reason you believe this is you are still after all this time thinking in terms of particles in motion instead of whole systems. Actually, we have been referring to observable macroscopic objects. fifthmonarchyman: We attach generic names to units characterised by a certain, rather arbitrary, degree of relationship. It’s a “rank” defined by humans, not a natural one. To some degree, however, there is a clumping of material involved, so the delineation is not completely arbitrary. We can easily work with other categorizations, if you like, though the utility will vary. fifthmonarchyman: What you are missing is that the whole acorn/oak system truly exists as a separate intact real entity. Sure. We can treat the acorn/oak as a system. Indeed, that's the usual way in evolutionary biology. When viewed this way, the evolution of seed-bearing plants is a simple progression from simpler organisms. The whole system still has to grapple with the flow of entropy in order to grow or reproduce.Zachriel
April 11, 2015
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Pitor says, What seems to be argued is some kind of alternative physics (or at lest alternative thermodynamics) different from what we have in this Universe. I say, No it's exactly the same thermodynamics but applied at the level of the whole system instead of the individual particles. What you are missing is that the whole acorn/oak system truly exists as a separate intact real entity. The reason you can't see this is that you believe that the only thing that truly exists is a sea of individual particles. And that what we call an acorn is just an arbitrary grouping of matter in this sea that we humans choose to give a particular name . In your world there are no acorns "really" let alone acorn /oak systems. You unintentionally summed up your conception of what whole things are back in @575 quote: We attach generic names to units characterised by a certain, rather arbitrary, degree of relationship. It’s a “rank” defined by humans, not a natural one. end quote: This is the reason you can't understand what is being argued. The misunderstanding is at the fundamental level of what really exists in the universe. I know you will say that I am not representing your position properly and that you don't really believe what I claim you do. Here is your chance to prove that I am wrong. Given materialism Please provide a specific step by step mechanism by which an acorn can arise from individual undifferentiated atoms. peacefifthmonarchyman
April 11, 2015
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I doubt with your worldview you will ever understand what is being argued by folks on my side.
What seems to be argued is some kind of alternative physics (or at lest alternative thermodynamics) different from what we have in this Universe. Parent plants do provide their embryos with a store of nutrients (starch, oil, essential amino acids, vitamins, etc.), which serve as the source of free energy (and of entropy to be exported in compensation) for the seedling. This is the part of the young plant's thermodynamic bill which is paid by the previous generation. Once they consume this store, they have to start fending for themselves.Piotr
April 11, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman: As you have pointed out the entropy loss that accompanied the arrival of the acorn happened long long ago. The thermodynamic work necessary to produce an acorn is recent.Zachriel
April 10, 2015
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Pitor says: Sorry, I’ve no idea what you’re talking about. I say, That does not surprise me. If I had to guess I would say you think that the low entropy in an individual acorn today is compensated for by increases in the entropy of the present environment end of story. The reason you believe this is you are still after all this time thinking in terms of particles in motion instead of whole systems. I doubt with your worldview you will ever understand what is being argued by folks on my side. oh well I gave it a shot Peacefifthmonarchyman
April 10, 2015
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As you have pointed out the entropy loss that accompanied the arrival of the acorn happened long long ago.
I don't think I have said anything that could be construed in this way. Life doesn't need much entropy reduction. In the planetary scale, it's almost nothing compared to the total natural flow and dispersal of energy on Earth. What life needs is enough free energy to maintain its non-equilibrium chemistry. It needed it in the past and needs it now.
The entropy has not decreased since that time as far as I can tell.
Sorry, I've no idea what you're talking about.Piotr
April 10, 2015
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Zac says, We’re sure you find that thought comforting, but it doesn’t constitute support for your position, I stay It's not a position it's a statement of the painfully obvious all the "support" it needs is contained in your own comments. I truly mean no offense I just think it's important for folks on my side to see the profound difference in the way that the critics view the world from the way we do to understand the reason why these conversations are so difficult. peacefifthmonarchyman
April 10, 2015
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Piotr says, Oaks inherited that cycle, with many historically accumulated complications, from very distant ancestors. I say, I don't have a lot of problem with that statement I just don't think it's too relevant to the question asked. The chicken and egg paradox is not about when exactly the first link in the chain happened it's about the self contained nature of the cycle itself. If you are looking for the first link you miss the whole point of the question. If a child of a fellow fundi asks me which came first man or boy. I can confidently answer neither is possible with out the other. I don't feel the need to appeal to the story of Adam. You say, How much thermal or chemical entropy does an acorn create in its environment? I say, As you have pointed out the entropy loss that accompanied the arrival of the acorn happened long long ago. The entropy has not decreased since that time as far as I can tell. peacefifthmonarchyman
April 10, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman: Instead of seeing a real Whole system with constituent parts he now simply trades one particle “the acorn” for another larger “particle” a single ancient OAK with an “alternating life cycle”. We're sure you find that thought comforting, but it doesn't constitute support for your position, much less scientific support.Zachriel
April 10, 2015
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Piotr, There isn't any evidence that prokaryotes can evolve into something other than prokaryotes. You lose before you can get started. (saying mitochondria sort of look like bacteria doesn't help)Joe
April 10, 2015
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amen brother. Did that hurt?
No, but I don't think I mean the same thing that you mean when you say "neither". I mean that the eukaryotic life cycle with alternating stages began to evolve about two billion years before the appearance of anything that could be called an oak or an acorn. Oaks inherited that cycle, with many historically accumulated complications, from very distant ancestors. [Edited to add: There was never "the first oak" or "the first acorn", because there was no sharp boundary between populations of "oaks" and "ancestors of oaks". The tranformation was gradual and spread over many generations.]Piotr
April 10, 2015
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The acorn is one part a highly specified very low entropy system with multiple interwoven components.
Very low entropy? How much thermal or chemical entropy does an acorn create in its environment? There should be vast amounts of it, since the decrease of entropy in the acorn must be more than compensated by that export.Piotr
April 10, 2015
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Zac says, The acorn is a constituent part of the oak’s life cycle. and Actually, we see a single organism with an alternating life cycle. I say, There you go To Zac it's all about particles in motion he is unable to see a "whole" anywhere. Instead of seeing a real Whole system with constituent parts he now simply trades one particle "the acorn" for another larger "particle" a single ancient OAK with an "alternating life cycle". I don't know how we could have a better illustration of the Materialist difficulty with the problem of the One and the Many. peacefifthmonarchyman
April 10, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman: From the above it should be obvious that an acorn is fundamentally different than a hailstone Of course they're different. fifthmonarchyman: The hailstone is a marginally specified object with slightly lower entropy than it’s local environment Actually, a hailstone has lower entropy than an acorn. fifthmonarchyman: Heat Compensation might help to explain the reduced entropy in the hailstone but is entirely irrelevant for explaining the acorn. Nope. You can't explain the acorn without accounting for thermodynamic work.Zachriel
April 10, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman: Is the acorn the furthest, or the end of a series? The acorn is a constituent part of the oak's life cycle. fifthmonarchyman: The problem is you are not seeing a system you are only only seeing two individual particles in a sea of moving particles. Actually, we see a single organism with an alternating life cycle.Zachriel
April 10, 2015
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Pitor says, The answer to the chicken-and-egg “paradox” and to the oak-and-acorn “paradox” is the same. Neither was the first, in the sense that there’s never been a “cycle zero” dramatically different from whatever preceded it during the time when it makes sense to talk of chickens and oaks, or even animals and plants. I say, amen brother. Did that hurt? From the above it should be obvious that an acorn is fundamentally different than a hailstone It's not just a case of more complexity it's a category shift The hailstone is a marginally specified object with slightly lower entropy than it's local environment The acorn is one part a highly specified very low entropy system with multiple interwoven components. Heat Compensation might help to explain the reduced entropy in the hailstone but is entirely irrelevant for explaining the acorn. peacefifthmonarchyman
April 10, 2015
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Piotr, the issue is the fundamental merits, not whether someone agrees or disagrees. And the joint info-probability stat mech/fluctuations and thermodynamics case does not in any wise support the notion of irrelevant I/m/e flows somehow compensating for organisation. KFkairosfocus
April 10, 2015
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fifth:
wow, apparently folks like Piotr are incapable of seeing any system as being more than an arbitrary grouping of it’s constituent parts.
A strange conclusion from what I said. A plant and its spore are two stages of the same life cycle, inseparable and evolving as a whole. Where did I say anything about an arbitrary grouping? The answer to the chicken-and-egg "paradox" and to the oak-and-acorn "paradox" is the same. Neither was the first, in the sense that there's never been a "cycle zero" dramatically different from whatever preceded it during the time when it makes sense to talk of chickens and oaks, or even animals and plants. Anyway, the paradox is poorly formulated. It takes two sexes, a hen and a cock, to produce a fertilised egg, and two different oak flowers, male and female, to produce an acorn. They could in theory be from different branches of the same tree, since oaks are monoecious, but oaks normally don't self-pollinate, so it typically takes two oak-trees to make an acorn. The (fertilised) egg and the acorn already contain a diploid embryo. It's the haploid gametes (egg cells and sperm), invisible to naive observers (including Aristotle, who popularised this bird-or-egg parlour game), which are more important in the cycle. To understand how it all started, you really need to move back in time to the beginning of sexual reproduction, and the real questions are: (1) Why are there haploid and diploid stages in the life-cycles of eukaryotes? (2) What was first, the haploid or the diploid? All chicken-and-egg paradoxes reduce to these questions.
Why else would Zac think that the improbability of Hailstorms and Oak trees are analogous? This is the primary reason that they don’t understand the 2nd law argument.
I beg to differ as to who gets the 2LoT wrong and insists on making flawed arguments based on it.Piotr
April 10, 2015
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Headlined: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/id-foundations/should-id-supporters-argue-in-terms-of-themodynamics-or-information-or-basic-probability/kairosfocus
April 10, 2015
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zac says, The spore, like the acorn, is part of the plant. They evolved as a single organism I say, Wow you are unable to see an intact functioning system. You either see two particles or one "particle" (the single organism) You have no reference point for one real whole with real constituent parts. quite a mental straitjacket you have there peacefifthmonarchyman
April 10, 2015
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ZAc says, Is the acorn the furthest, or the end of a series? I say, in the oak/acorn system both the acorn and oak are each furthest end points. Amazing you don't see this You say, Is an acorn the maximum? I say, Yes it is one of two maximums in the oak/acorn system You say, Highest? Not to be improved upon? I say, When discussing the oak/acorn system the acorn and the oak are each highest not to be improved upon points. The problem is you are not seeing a system you are only only seeing two individual particles in a sea of moving particles. Your worldview forces this perspective on you, peacefifthmonarchyman
April 10, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman: As usual I might have known your response to a simple observation would be to try and introduce ambiguity into common English words. Not at all. We want to remove ambiguity. If you are making a scientific claim, then "ultimate" has to be clearly defined so that we can determine through an objective test whether something meets the definition. fifthmonarchyman: Not sure about the universe you inhabit but This definition works just fine in mine. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ultimate Let's try it out. fifthmonarchyman: It’s easy to scientifically verify that Oaks and Acorns are equally ultimate just try to get one without the other. Hmm. It doesn't seem to work. Is the acorn the furthest, or the end of a series? No. Is an acorn the maximum? No. Highest? No. Not to be improved upon? No. That's why we asked how you were using the word. The standard definition doesn't seem to fit your usage. Andre: What came first the spore or the spore producing plant? The spore, like the acorn, is part of the plant. They evolved as a single organism.Zachriel
April 10, 2015
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Piotr says, The spore is older. Plants developed from more primitive organisms which already produced spores. I say, wow, apparently folks like Piotr are incapable of seeing any system as being more than an arbitrary grouping of it's constituent parts. Why else would Zac think that the improbability of Hailstorms and Oak trees are analogous? This is the primary reason that they don't understand the 2nd law argument. peacefifthmonarchyman
April 10, 2015
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SalC & Mung: Pardon, but I have a different take: on years of observing, any serious design argument will be twisted into pretzels, strawmannised, confused, clouded and generally distorted and dismissed by the sort of ruthlessly determined and too often amoral or outright nihilistic, truth and fairness disregarding objectors we frequently face. This is because, too many such are "any means necessary"/"ends justify means" committed ideologues full of agit-prop talking points and agendas. That's exactly how the trained, indoctrinated Marxist agitators of my youth operated. Benumbed in conscience, insensitive to truth, fundamentally rage-blinded [even when charming], secure in their notion that they were the vanguard of the future/progress, and that they were championing pure victims of the oppressor classes who deserved anything they got. (Just to illustrate the attitude, I remember one who accused me falsely of theft of an item of equipment kept in my lab. I promptly had it signed over to the Student Union once I understood the situation, then went to her office and confronted her with the sign off. How can you be so thin skinned was her only response; taking full advantage of the rule that men must restrain themselves in dealing with women, however outrageous the latter, and of course seeking to further wound. Ironically, this champion of the working classes was from a much higher class-origin than I was . . . actually, unsurprisingly. To see the parallels, notice how often not only objectors who come here but the major materialist agit-prop organisations -- without good grounds -- insinuate calculated dishonesty and utter incompetence to the point that we should not have been able to complete a degree, on our part.) I suggest, first, that the pivot of design discussions on the world of life is functionally specific, complex interactive Wicken wiring diagram organisation of parts that achieve a whole performance based on particular arrangement and coupling, and associated information. Information that is sometimes explicit (R/DNA codes) or sometimes may be drawn out by using structured Y/N q's that describe the wiring pattern to achieve function. FSCO/I, for short. This is not new, it goes back to Orgel 1973:
. . . In brief, living organisms [--> functional context] are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals are usually taken as the prototypes of simple well-specified structures, because they consist of a very large number of identical molecules packed together in a uniform way. Lumps of granite or random mixtures of polymers are examples of structures that are complex but not specified. The crystals fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; the mixtures of polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity . . . . [HT, Mung, fr. p. 190 & 196:] These vague idea can be made more precise by introducing the idea of information. Roughly speaking, the information content of a structure is the minimum number of instructions needed to specify the structure. [--> this is of course equivalent to the string of yes/no questions required to specify the relevant "wiring diagram" for the set of functional states, T, in the much larger space of possible clumped or scattered configurations, W, as Dembski would go on to define in NFL in 2002 . . . ] One can see intuitively that many instructions are needed to specify a complex structure. [--> so if the q's to be answered are Y/N, the chain length is an information measure that indicates complexity in bits . . . ] On the other hand a simple repeating structure can be specified in rather few instructions. [--> do once and repeat over and over in a loop . . . ] Complex but random structures, by definition, need hardly be specified at all . . . . Paley was right to emphasize the need for special explanations of the existence of objects with high information content, for they cannot be formed in nonevolutionary, inorganic processes. [The Origins of Life (John Wiley, 1973), p. 189, p. 190, p. 196.]
. . . as well as Wicken, 1979:
‘Organized’ systems are to be carefully distinguished from ‘ordered’ systems. Neither kind of system is ‘random,’ but whereas ordered systems are generated according to simple algorithms [[i.e. “simple” force laws acting on objects starting from arbitrary and common- place initial conditions] and therefore lack complexity, organized systems must be assembled element by element according to an [[originally . . . ] external ‘wiring diagram’ with a high information content . . . Organization, then, is functional complexity and carries information. It is non-random by design or by selection, rather than by the a priori necessity of crystallographic ‘order.’ [[“The Generation of Complexity in Evolution: A Thermodynamic and Information-Theoretical Discussion,” Journal of Theoretical Biology, 77 (April 1979): p. 353, of pp. 349-65. (Emphases and notes added. Nb: “originally” is added to highlight that for self-replicating systems, the blue print can be built-in.)]
. . . and is pretty directly stated by Dembski in NFL:
p. 148:“The great myth of contemporary evolutionary biology is that the information needed to explain complex biological structures can be purchased without intelligence. My aim throughout this book is to dispel that myth . . . . Eigen and his colleagues must have something else in mind besides information simpliciter when they describe the origin of information as the central problem of biology. I submit that what they have in mind is specified complexity, or what equivalently we have been calling in this Chapter Complex Specified information or CSI . . . . Biological specification always refers to function. An organism is a functional system comprising many functional subsystems. . . . In virtue of their function [[a living organism's subsystems] embody patterns that are objectively given and can be identified independently of the systems that embody them. Hence these systems are specified in the sense required by the complexity-specificity criterion . . . the specification can be cashed out in any number of ways [[through observing the requisites of functional organisation within the cell, or in organs and tissues or at the level of the organism as a whole. Dembski cites: Wouters, p. 148: "globally in terms of the viability of whole organisms," Behe, p. 148: "minimal function of biochemical systems," Dawkins, pp. 148 - 9: "Complicated things have some quality, specifiable in advance, that is highly unlikely to have been acquired by ran-| dom chance alone. In the case of living things, the quality that is specified in advance is . . . the ability to propagate genes in reproduction." On p. 149, he roughly cites Orgel's famous remark from 1973, which exactly cited reads: In brief, living organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals are usually taken as the prototypes of simple well-specified structures, because they consist of a very large number of identical molecules packed together in a uniform way. Lumps of granite or random mixtures of polymers are examples of structures that are complex but not specified. The crystals fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; the mixtures of polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity . . . And, p. 149, he highlights Paul Davis in The Fifth Miracle: "Living organisms are mysterious not for their complexity per se, but for their tightly specified complexity."] . . .” p. 144: [[Specified complexity can be more formally defined:] “. . . since a universal probability bound of 1 [[chance] in 10^150 corresponds to a universal complexity bound of 500 bits of information, [[the cluster] (T, E) constitutes CSI because T [[ effectively the target hot zone in the field of possibilities] subsumes E [[ effectively the observed event from that field], T is detachable from E, and and T measures at least 500 bits of information . . . ”
What happens at relevant cellular level, is that this comes down to highly endothermic C-Chemistry, aqueous medium context macromolecules in complexes that are organised to achieve highly integrated and specific interlocking functions required for metabolising, self replicating cells to function. This implicates huge quantities of information manifest in the highly specific functional organisation. Which is observable on a much coarser resolution than the nm range of basic molecular interactions. That is we see tightly constrained clusters of micro-level arrangements -- states -- consistent with function, as opposed to the much larger numbers of possible but overwhelmingly non-functional ways the same atoms and monomer components could be chemically and/or physically clumped "at random." In turn, that is a lot fewer ways than the same could be scattered across a Darwin's pond or the like. Thus, starting from the "typical" diffused condition, we readily see how a work to clump at random emerges, and a further work to configure in functionally specific ways. With implications for this component of entropy change. As well as for the direction of the clumping and assembly process to get the right parts together, organised in the right cluster of ways that are consistent with function. Thus, there are implications of prescriptive information that specifies the relevant wiring diagram. (Think, AutoCAD etc as a comparison.) Pulling back, we can see that to achieve such, the reasonable -- and empirically warranted -- expectation, is
a: to find energy, mass and information sources and flows associated with b: energy converters that provide shaft work or controlled flows, linked to c: constructors that carry out the particular work, under control of d: relevant prescriptive information that explicitly or implicitly regulates assembly to match the wiring diagram requisites of function, also with e: exhaust or dissipation otherwise of degraded energy [typically, but not only, as heat . . . ] and discarding of wastes. (Which last gives relevant compensation where dS cosmos rises.)
By contrast with such, there seems to be a strong belief that irrelevant mass and/or energy flows without coupled converters, constructors and prescriptive organising information, through phenomena such as diffusion and fluctuations can somehow credibly hit on a replicating entity that then can ratchet up into a full encapsulated, gated, metabolising, algorithmic code using self replicating cell. Such is thermodynamically -- yes, thermodynamically, informationally and probabilistically [loose sense] utterly implausible. And, the sort of implied genes first/RNA world, or alternatively metabolism first scenarios that have been suggested are without foundation in empirically observed adequate cause tracing only to blind chance and mechanical necessity. In short, the three perspectives converge. Thermodynamically, the implausibility of finding information rich FSCO/I in islands of function in config spaces links directly to the overwhelmingly likely outcome of spontaneous processes. Such is of course a probabilistically liked outcome. And, information is often quantified on the same probability thinking. Taking a step back to App A my always linked note, following Thaxton Bradley and Olson in TMLO 1984 and amplifying a bit:
. . . Going forward to the discussion in Ch 8, in light of the definition dG = dH - Tds, we may then split up the TdS term into contributing components, thusly: First, dG = [dE + PdV] - TdS . . . [Eqn A.9, cf def'ns for G, H above] But, [1] since pressure-volume work [--> the PdV term] may be seen as negligible in the context we have in mind, and [2] since we may look at dE as shifts in bonding energy [which will be more or less the same in DNA or polypeptide/protein chains of the same length regardless of the sequence of the monomers], we may focus on the TdS term. This brings us back to the clumping then configuring sequence of changes in entropy in the Micro-Jets example above: dG = dH - T[dS"clump" +dSconfig] . . . [Eqn A.10, cf. TBO 8.5] Of course, we have already addressed the reduction in entropy on clumping and the further reduction in entropy on configuration, through the thought expt. etc., above. In the DNA or protein formation case, more or less the same thing happens. Using Brillouin's negentropy formulation of information, we may see that the dSconfig is the negative of the information content of the molecule. A bit of back-tracking will help: S = k ln W . . . Eqn A.3 Now, W may be seen as a composite of the ways energy as well as mass may be arranged at micro-level. That is, we are marking a distinction between the entropy component due to ways energy [here usually, thermal energy] may be arranged, and that due to the ways mass may be configured across the relevant volume. The configurational component arises from in effect the same considerations as lead us to see a rise in entropy on having a body of gas at first confined to part of an apparatus, then allowing it to freely expand into the full volume: Free expansion: || * * * * * * * * | || Then: || * * * * * * * * || Or, as Prof Gary L. Bertrand of university of Missouri-Rollo summarises:
The freedom within a part of the universe may take two major forms: the freedom of the mass and the freedom of the energy. The amount of freedom is related to the number of different ways the mass or the energy in that part of the universe may be arranged while not gaining or losing any mass or energy. We will concentrate on a specific part of the universe, perhaps within a closed container. If the mass within the container is distributed into a lot of tiny little balls (atoms) flying blindly about, running into each other and anything else (like walls) that may be in their way, there is a huge number of different ways the atoms could be arranged at any one time. Each atom could at different times occupy any place within the container that was not already occupied by another atom, but on average the atoms will be uniformly distributed throughout the container. If we can mathematically estimate the number of different ways the atoms may be arranged, we can quantify the freedom of the mass. If somehow we increase the size of the container, each atom can move around in a greater amount of space, and the number of ways the mass may be arranged will increase . . . . The thermodynamic term for quantifying freedom is entropy, and it is given the symbol S. Like freedom, the entropy of a system increases with the temperature and with volume . . . the entropy of a system increases as the concentrations of the components decrease. The part of entropy which is determined by energetic freedom is called thermal entropy, and the part that is determined by concentration is called configurational entropy."
In short, degree of confinement in space constrains the degree of disorder/"freedom" that masses may have. And, of course, confinement to particular portions of a linear polymer is no less a case of volumetric confinement (relative to being free to take up any location at random along the chain of monomers) than is confinement of gas molecules to one part of an apparatus. And, degree of such confinement may appropriately be termed, degree of "concentration." Diffusion is a similar case: infusing a drop of dye into a glass of water -- the particles spread out across the volume and we see an increase of entropy there. (The micro-jets case of course is effectively diffusion in reverse, so we see the reduction in entropy on clumping and then also the further reduction in entropy on configuring to form a flyable microjet.) So, we are justified in reworking the Boltzmann expression to separate clumping/thermal and configurational components: S = k ln (Wclump*Wconfig) = k lnWth*Wc . . . [Eqn A.11, cf. TBO 8.2a] or, S = k ln Wth + k ln Wc = Sth + Sc . . . [Eqn A.11.1] We now focus on the configurational component, the clumping/thermal one being in effect the same for at-random or specifically configured DNA or polypeptide macromolecules of the same length and proportions of the relevant monomers, as it is essentially energy of the bonds in the chain, which are the same in number and type for the two cases. Also, introducing Brillouin's negentropy formulation of Information, with the configured macromolecule [m] and the random molecule [r], we see the increment in information on going from the random to the functionally specified macromolecule: IB = -[Scm - Scr] . . . [Eqn A.12, cf. TBO 8.3a] Or, IB = Scr - Scm = k ln Wcr - k ln Wcm = k ln (Wcr/Wcm) . . . [Eqn A12.1.] Where also, for N objects in a linear chain, n1 of one kind, n2 of another, and so on to ni, we may see that the number of ways to arrange them (we need not complicate the matter by talking of Fermi-Dirac statistics, as TBO do!) is: W = N!/[n1!n2! . . . ni!] . . . [Eqn A13, cf TBO 8.7] So, we may look at a 100-monomer protein, with as an average 5 each of the 20 types of amino acid monomers along the chain , with the aid of log manipulations -- take logs to base 10, do the sums in log form, then take back out the logs -- to handle numbers over 10^100 on a calculator: Wcr = 100!/[(5!)^20] = 1.28*10^115 For the sake of initial argument, we consider a unique polymer chain , so that each monomer is confined to a specified location, i.e Wcm = 1, and Scm = 0. This yields -- through basic equilibrium of chemical reaction thermodynamics (follow the onward argument in TBO Ch 8) and the Brillouin information measure which contributes to estimating the relevant Gibbs free energies (and with some empirical results on energies of formation etc) -- an expected protein concentration of ~10^-338 molar, i.e. far, far less than one molecule per planet. (There may be about 10^80 atoms in the observed universe, with Carbon a rather small fraction thereof; and 1 mole of atoms is ~ 6.02*10^23 atoms. ) Recall, known life forms routinely use dozens to hundreds of such information-rich macromolecules, in close proximity in an integrated self-replicating information system on the scale of about 10^-6 m.
Of course, if one comes at the point from any of these directions, the objections and selectively hyperskeptical demands will be rolled out to fire off salvo after salvo of objections. Selective, as the blind chance needle in haystack models that cannot pass vera causa as a test, simply are not subjected to such scrutiny and scathing dismissiveness by the same objectors. When seriously pressed, the most they are usually prepared to concede, is that perhaps we don't yet know enough, but rest assured "Science" will triumph so don't you dare put up "god of the gaps" notions. But in fact, adequate cause for FSCO/I is not hard to find: intelligently directed configuration meeting requisites a - e just above. Design. There are trillions of cases in point. And that is why I demand that -- whatever flaws, elaborations, adjustments etc we may find or want to make -- we need to listen carefully and fairly to Granville Sewell's core point:
. . . The second law is all about probability, it uses probability at the microscopic level to predict macroscopic change: the reason carbon distributes itself more and more uniformly in an insulated solid is, that is what the laws of probability predict when diffusion alone is operative. The reason natural forces may turn a spaceship, or a TV set, or a computer into a pile of rubble but not vice-versa is also probability: of all the possible arrangements atoms could take, only a very small percentage could fly to the moon and back, or receive pictures and sound from the other side of the Earth, or add, subtract, multiply and divide real numbers with high accuracy. The second law of thermodynamics is the reason that computers will degenerate into scrap metal over time, and, in the absence of intelligence, the reverse process will not occur; and it is also the reason that animals, when they die, decay into simple organic and inorganic compounds, and, in the absence of intelligence, the reverse process will not occur. The discovery that life on Earth developed through evolutionary "steps," coupled with the observation that mutations and natural selection -- like other natural forces -- can cause (minor) change, is widely accepted in the scientific world as proof that natural selection -- alone among all natural forces -- can create order out of disorder, and even design human brains, with human consciousness. Only the layman seems to see the problem with this logic. In a recent Mathematical Intelligencer article ["A Mathematician's View of Evolution," The Mathematical Intelligencer 22, number 4, 5-7, 2000] I asserted that the idea that the four fundamental forces of physics alone could rearrange the fundamental particles of Nature into spaceships, nuclear power plants, and computers, connected to laser printers, CRTs, keyboards and the Internet, appears to violate the second law of thermodynamics in a spectacular way.1 . . . . What happens in a[n isolated] system depends on the initial conditions; what happens in an open system depends on the boundary conditions as well. As I wrote in "Can ANYTHING Happen in an Open System?", "order can increase in an open system, not because the laws of probability are suspended when the door is open, but simply because order may walk in through the door.... If we found evidence that DNA, auto parts, computer chips, and books entered through the Earth's atmosphere at some time in the past, then perhaps the appearance of humans, cars, computers, and encyclopedias on a previously barren planet could be explained without postulating a violation of the second law here . . . But if all we see entering is radiation and meteorite fragments, it seems clear that what is entering through the boundary cannot explain the increase in order observed here." Evolution is a movie running backward, that is what makes it special. THE EVOLUTIONIST, therefore, cannot avoid the question of probability by saying that anything can happen in an open system, he is finally forced to argue that it only seems extremely improbable, but really isn't, that atoms would rearrange themselves into spaceships and computers and TV sets . . . [NB: Emphases added. I have also substituted in isolated system terminology as GS uses a different terminology.]
Surely, there is room to listen, and to address concerns on the merits. KFkairosfocus
April 10, 2015
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Piotr? So how did a spore become a spore? How did one section and another via undirected processes become the unfertilized and the fertilizer? How is this possible?Andre
April 10, 2015
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Folks, notice how this and ever so many threads tend strongly to be pulled off topic? One of the concerns with that is a common -- sometimes, habitual -- trollish objector's tactic of a red herring distractor led away to a convenient strawman caricature laced with ad hominems and set alight to clod, confuse, polarise and utterly poison the atmosphere. So, if the focal issue is important, we should be very wary of that trifecta fallacy tactic. KFkairosfocus
April 10, 2015
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#588 Andre, The spore is older. Plants developed from more primitive organisms which already produced spores. We should keep it in mind that there is a difference between a spore ans a seed. A spore is haploid, like an unfertilised egg cell or a sperm. A seed is a diploid plant embryo, developing after fertilisation. Plants producing spores disperse them and the spore may germinate and produce (asexually) a haploid gametophyte away from the parent plant. The gametophyte produces haploid gametes (still asexually), which eventually fuse with gametes of the opposite sex to form a diploid zygote (this is the sexual part of their reproduction). In seed-plants the whole process happens internally in the parent organism. Flowers (or their parts) are the evolutionary descendants of gametophytes, and ovules and pollen grains contain the gametes. The seed corresponds to the zygote of spore-producing plants, not to the spore itself. The mid-Devonian genus Runcaria (mentioned above) is the earliest known example of a plant which kept its "female" spores and allowed them to germinate, undergo fertilisation and produce a seed-like zygote internally, protected by the megasporangium structure of the parent plant.Piotr
April 10, 2015
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