Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

On Active Information, search, Islands of Function and FSCO/I

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ID Foundations
rhetoric
specified complexity
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A current rhetorical tack of objections to the design inference has two facets:

(a) suggesting or implying that by moving research focus to Active Information needle in haystack search-challenge linked Specified Complexity has been “dispensed with” [thus,too, related concepts such as FSCO/I]; and

(b) setting out to dismiss Active Information, now considered in isolation.

Both of these rhetorical gambits are in error.

However, just because a rhetorical assertion or strategy is erroneous does not mean that it is unpersuasive; especially for those inclined that way in the first place.

So, there is a necessity for a corrective.

First, let us observe how Marks and Dembski began their 2010 paper, in its abstract:

Needle-in-the-haystack problems look for small targets in large spaces. In such cases, blind search stands no hope of success. Conservation of information dictates any search technique will work, on average, as well as blind search. Success requires an assisted search. But whence the assistance required for a search to be successful? To pose the question this way suggests that successful searches do not emerge spontaneously but need themselves to be discovered via a search. The question then naturally arises whether such a higher-level “search for a search” is any easier than the original search. We prove two results: (1) The Horizontal No Free Lunch Theorem, which shows that average relative performance of searches never exceeds unassisted or blind searches, and (2) The Vertical No Free Lunch Theorem, which shows that the difficulty of searching for a successful search increases exponentially with respect to the minimum allowable active information being sought.

That is, the context of active information and associated search for a good search, is exactly that of finding isolated targets Ti in large configuration spaces W, that then pose a needle in haystack search challenge. Or, as I have represented this so often here at UD:

csi_defnUpdating to reflect the bridge to the origin of life challenge:

islands_of_func_chall

In this model, we see how researchers on evolutionary computing typically confine their work to tractable cases where a dust of random walk searches with drift due to a presumably gentle slope on what looks like a fairly flat surface is indeed likely to converge on multiple zones of sharply rising function, which then allows identification of likely local peaks of function. The researcher in view then has a second tier search across peaks to achieve a global maximum.

This of course contrasts with the FSCO/I [= functionally specific, complex organisation and/or associated information] case where

a: due to a need for multiple well-matched parts that

b: must be correctly arranged and coupled together

c: per a functionally specific wiring diagram

d: to attain the particular interactions that achieve function, and so

e: will be tied to an information-rich wiring diagram that

f: may be described and quantified informationally by using

g: a structured list of y/n q’s forming a descriptive bit string

. . . we naturally see instead isolated zones of function Ti amidst a much larger sea of non-functional clustered or scattered arrangements of parts.

This may be illustrated by an Abu 6500 C3 fishing reel exploded view assembly diagram:

abu_6500c3mag

. . . which may be compared to the organisation of a petroleum refinery:

Petroleum refinery block diagram illustrating FSCO/I in a process-flow system
Petroleum refinery block diagram illustrating FSCO/I in a process-flow system

. . . and to that of the cellular protein synthesis system:

Protein Synthesis (HT: Wiki Media)
Protein Synthesis (HT: Wiki Media)

. . . and onward the cellular metabolic process network (with the above being the small corner top left):

cell_metabolism

(NB: I insist on presenting this cluster of illustrations to demonstrate to all but the willfully obtuse, that FSCO/I is real, unavoidably familiar and pivotally relevant to origin of cell based life discussions, with implications onward for body plans that must unfold from an embryo or the like, OOL and OOBP.)

Now, in their 2013 paper on generalising their analysis, Marks, Dembski and Ewert begin:

All but the most trivial searches are needle-in-the-haystack problems. Yet many searches successfully locate needles in haystacks. How is this possible? A success-ful search locates a target in a manageable number of steps. According to conserva-tion of information, nontrivial searches can be successful only by drawing on existing external information, outputting no more information than was inputted [1]. In previous work, we made assumptions that limited the generality of conservation of information, such as assuming that the baseline against which search perfor-mance is evaluated must be a uniform probability distribution or that any query of the search space yields full knowledge of whether the candidate queried is inside or outside the target. In this paper, we remove such constraints and show that | conservation of information holds quite generally. We continue to assume that tar-gets are fixed. Search for fuzzy and moveable targets will be the topic of future research by the Evolutionary Informatics Lab.

In generalizing conservation of information, we first generalize what we mean by targeted search. The first three sections of this paper therefore develop a general approach to targeted search. The upshot of this approach is that any search may be represented as a probability distribution on the space being searched. Readers who are prepared to accept that searches may be represented in this way can skip to section 4 and regard the first three sections as stage-setting. Nonetheless, we sug-gest that readers study these first three sections, if only to appreciate the full gen-erality of the approach to search we are proposing and also to understand why attempts to circumvent conservation of information via certain types of searches fail. Indeed, as we shall see, such attempts to bypass conservation of information look to searches that fall under the general approach outlined here; moreover, conservation of information, as formalized here, applies to all these cases . . .

So, again, the direct relevance of FSCO/I and linked needle in haystack search challenge continues.

Going further, we may now focus:

is_ o_func2_activ_info

In short, active information is a bridge that allows us to pass to relevant zones of FSCO/I, Ti, and to cross plateaus and intervening valleys in an island of function that does not exhibit a neatly behaved objective function. And, it is reasonable to measure it’s impact based on search improvement, in informational terms. (Where, it may only need to give a hint, try here and scratch around a bit: warmer/colder/hot-hot-hot. AI itself does not have to give the sort of detailed wiring diagram description associated with FSCO/I.)

It must be deeply understood, that the dominant aspect of the situation is resource sparseness confronting a blind needle in haystack search. A reasonably random blind search will not credibly outperform the overwhelmingly likely failure of the yardstick, flat random search. Too much stack, too few search resources, too little time. And a drastically improved search, a golden search if you will, itself has to be found before it becomes relevant.

That means, searching for a good search.

Where, a search on a configuration space W, is a sample of its subsets. That is, it is a member of the power set of W, which has cardinality 2^W. Thus it is plausible that such a search will be much harder than a direct fairly random search.  (And yes, one may elaborate an analysis to address that point, but it is going to come back to much the same conclusion.)

Further, consider the case where the pictured zones are like sandy barrier islands, shape-shifting and able to move. That is, they are dynamic.

This will not affect the dominant challenge, which is to get to an initial Ti for OOL then onwards to get to further islands Tj etc for OOBP.  That is doubtless a work in progress over at the Evolutionary Informatics Lab, but is already patent from the challenge in the main.

To give an outline idea, let me clip a summary of the needle-to-stack challenge:

Our observed cosmos has in it some 10^80 atoms, and a good atomic-level clock-tick is a fast chem rxn rate of perhaps 10^-14 s. 13.7 bn y ~10^17 s. The number of atom-scale events in that span in the observed cosmos is thus of order 10^111.

The number of configs for 1,000 coins (or, bits) is 2^1,000 ~ 1.07*10^301.

That is, if we were to give each atom of the observed cosmos a tray of 1,000 coins, and toss and observe then process 10^14 times per second, the resources of the observed cosmos would sample up to 1 in 10^190 of the set of possibilities.

It is reasonable to deem such a blind search, whether contiguous or a dust, as far too sparse to have any reasonable likelihood of finding any reasonably isolated “needles” in the haystack of possibilities. A rough calc suggests that the ratio is comparable to a single straw drawn from a cubical haystack ~ 2 * 10^45 LY across. (Our observed cosmos may be ~ 10^11 LY across, i.e. the imaginary haystack would swallow up our observed cosmos.)

Of course, as posts in this thread amply demonstrate the “miracle” of intelligently directed configuration allows us to routinely produce cases of functionally specific complex organisation and/or associated information well beyond such a threshold. For an ASCII text string 1,000 bits is about 143 characters, the length of a Twitter post.

As just genomes for OOL  start out at 100 – 1,000 k bases and those for OOBP credibly run like 10 – 100+ mn bases, this is a toy illustration of the true magnitude of the problem.

The context and challenge addressed by the active information concept is blind needle in haystack search challenge, and so also FSCO/I. The only actually observed adequate cause of FSCO/I is intelligently directed configuration, aka design. And per further experience, design works by injecting active information coming from a self-moved agent cause capable of rational contemplation and creative synthesis.

So, FSCO/I remains as best explained on design. In fact, per a trillion member base of observations, it is a reliable sign of it. Which has very direct implications for our thought on OOL and OOBP.

Or, it should. END

Comments
Mung: You’re trying to solve a problem. You have to figure out some way to represent your problem as a genotype. Elizabeth Liddle: Nope. You have to find some way to represent your problem as a fitness function. The genotype sorts itself out. Another annoying trait you and Zachriels share. It may in fact be the case that you have to represent your problem as a fitness function, but that is not a rebuttal to what I wrote. So your rebuttal consists of "Nope." In computer programming, genetic representation is a way of representing solutions/individuals in evolutionary computation methods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_representation If I say potential solution instead of problem will that change at all the fact that this is a part of the design? A typical genetic algorithm requires: a genetic representation of the solution domain, a fitness function to evaluate the solution domain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_algorithm#Chromosome_representationMung
May 3, 2015
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Mung: Yet I just told you that it isn’t. Okay. You can set it up anyway you want, even if it doesn't meet the outline provided above. You might as well dispense with the algorithm entirely if you already know what you want. Mung: So first and foremost, when I say your genotype is designed it is this Genotype that I am talking about, for it defines what your potential candidate solutions can look like. So now it's our genotype. Wish you'd make up your mind. According to the definition provided above, the original population is made up of random sequences.Zachriel
May 3, 2015
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Elizabeth Liddle:
I guess you mean that the genotype in a GA is designed. Whereas it isn’t – the starter genotype is designed, for sure, so that it is capable of replication, but it typically has no more than chance success of solving your problem.
And you have just said both that the genotype is and is not designed. Unless you are equivocating, you're contradicting yourself. So what is the starter genotype and what is the relevant difference between the starter genotype and the genotype in a GA you mention such that the starter genotype is designed and the genotype in a GA is not designed? Are you working with a language other than MATLAB now? I would not mind working some specific examples so that we both understand specifically what we are referring to.Mung
May 3, 2015
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Joe: if you want to model biological evolution, then you need to use a computer, which is designed by human beings. If we used your logic, and computer model of any natural phenomenon whatsoever would be "designed" because the computer is designed. In a computer model of evolution, the computer itself, its operating system, and the code that runs the simulation are models of the physical environment - the physical and chemical laws of the natural world. The population of virtual organisms, is a model of a population that has not yet evolved to thrive within the new environment we are just about to present them. So they represent proto-biological population, if you like, sometimes after OOL. The fitness function represents the resources and hazards of the natural environment. We can design it so that they represent a specific problem we want to solve, or a natural environment we want to model. And what happens is that within that MODEL system, in which all the DESIGNED parts (computer, operating system, EV code, virtual critters, virtual environment) stand-in for the natural world. What is NOT designed are the evolved critters themselves. We do not know what genotypes/phenotypes will emerge from the process as the optimal solution to survival and reproduction within the environment we have provided from them. Therefore, such systems are a MODEL of how, GIVEN: a population of self-replicating organisms; a physics and chemistry; an environment of resources and threats - that initial of simple, minimally functional virtual organisms will evolve adaptively to that environment, EVEN THOUGH we do not specify what they will look like, what features they will have, what surprising properties they will evince. And they do. Therefore, in principle, we know that Darwin's mechanism works. It is also very useful for solving problems that human designers aren't very good at solving.Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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Elizabeth:
The winning genotype – the one that solves your problem, is not designed.
Of course it is. Computers don't do anything they are not intelligently designed to do. And if you write a program to solve a problem, and it does so, then it did so by intelligent design. That was the purpose of the program. The following comment explains why you are wrong: a lesson on computers.Joe
May 3, 2015
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Mung: Now in this code snippet the GenotypeFactory is not used to create the random candidate solutions Zachriel: It can be, and often is. LoL. Yet I just told you that it isn't. It's my code, I can design it the way I want it :) Zachriel:
Random sequences are frequently used as the seed for an evolutionary algorithm. Or it might be just a very simple sequence. See #35 above.
Irrelevant or redundant. The point of the GenotypeFactory is separation of concerns and to clarify and illustrate. The GenotypeFactory generates Genotypes which are themselves then used to create candidate solutions. So first and foremost, when I say your genotype is designed it is this Genotype that I am talking about, for it defines what your potential candidate solutions can look like. You have some questions to answer still.Mung
May 3, 2015
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Mung: And just because you can change the properties of an object it doesn’t follow that the object is not designed. You seem to be confusing the model with the thing being modeled. If the sequence is random, the sequence is not designed.Zachriel
May 3, 2015
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Zachriel, anyone familiar with programming ought to understand that there is a difference between a type and an instance of a type. Even non-programmers can grasp that. And just because you can change the properties of an object it doesn't follow that the object is not designed.Mung
May 3, 2015
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Mung: Now in this code snippet the GenotypeFactory is not used to create the random candidate solutions It can be, and often is. Random sequences are frequently used as the seed for an evolutionary algorithm. Or it might be just a very simple sequence. See #35 above.Zachriel
May 3, 2015
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Elizabeth, looks like we cross-posted :) My latest @83) is not a response to your 82, rather it is a continuation of my 79 and 80.Mung
May 3, 2015
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Let's say we want to kick off a run of an evolutionary algorithm and we want to initialize the starting population with random candidate solutions. initial_population = Population.new(GenotypeFactory) Now in this code snippet the GenotypeFactory is not used to create the random candidate solutions, but rather it constructs a template (a Genotype) from which the random candidate solutions can be generated. The random candidate solutions are then generated from that template, so that they all share the same genotype design. Now say our GenotypeFactory can produce many different Genotypes of different design. When constructing our starting population we would not want to just grab any old Genotype from the factory and hope it works for the problem we are trying to solve. Nor would we want our initial starting population of candidate solutions to be generated using different Genotypes. We want them all to share the same Genotype, and thus to all have in a common the same genotype design. We want a Genotype designed for our domain. There is nothing at all controversial about this.Mung
May 3, 2015
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Mung:
Sometimes I think I must be speaking a different language from Zachriel and Elizabeth.
Yes, that has struck me as well.
When I say that the genotype in a GA is designed, what do the two of you think I mean by that?
I guess you mean that the genotype in a GA is designed. Whereas it isn't - the starter genotype is designed, for sure, so that it is capable of replication, but it typically has no more than chance success of solving your problem. The winning genotype - the one that solves your problem, is not designed.
You’re trying to solve a problem. You have to figure out some way to represent your problem as a genotype.
Nope. You have to find some way to represent your problem as a fitness function. The genotype sorts itself out.
There has to be a mapping of the genotype to the solution domain. This all requires intelligent design.
What has to happen is that the genotype has to entail a phenotype. This mapping is indeed designed - it's there in the starter population as I said. But it needs only to be designed enough to replicate - the equivalent of OOL. From there on, the population evolves to solve your problem - which is represented in the fitness function, not the genotype.
Do you really want to argue this?
No. I just want you to try to understand the language we are using. The designer does not design a genotype that will produce a phenotype that will solve the problem. The system does that. What the designer does is design the original population of virtual organisms (OOL), in which genotypes are varied, and map on to phenotypes. When the genotype varies, so will the phenotype. The designer does NOT design the solution - the genotype that solves her problem. The system does that. And it does so because the designer presents her problem as a fitness function.
Is there some general purpose genotype that works for all domains that you’d care to share with me?
Of course not. An equation won't work in a primordial soup. As we've said, repeatedly, Mung: to evolve a solution, you need a starter population of virtual organisms, and the problem represented as a fitness function. Clearly you can't shove worms into your computer and expect them to evolve into solutions as to how to discriminate patients with schizophrenia from patients with bipolar on the basis of their brain scans. That's why the system presupposes OOL - a system ("domain" if you like) in which a population of virtual organisms can reproduce with variance, and have their probability of breeding dependent on their capacity to exploit the resources and avoid the threats of the environment you provide. And these are the parts you design. You do NOT, repeat NOT, design the genotype that specifies a phenotype that solves your problem. You do not even KNOW the phenotype that solves your probem, so you CAN'T design its genotype. THAT is what I mean by "the genotype in a GA is NOT designed". OK? Are we speaking the same language now?Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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Mung: And how does that even begin to address my claim? {your genotype is designed for your landscape.} Because the genotype isn't designed, but evolved. Mung: What do words (or letters for that matter) have to do with anything? It was the fitness landscape chosen by an IDer to supposedly represent unconnected islands of function. Mung: Your genotype is designed to work with your landscape. You seem to be using the term genotype in some unusual manner. The genotypes are the sequences of letters that enter the population because they meet the minimum requirement of being perfectly spelled words. If you mean the dictionary is designed, that's the fitness landscape, not the genotype.Zachriel
May 3, 2015
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Sometimes I think I must be speaking a different language from Zachriel and Elizabeth. When I say that the genotype in a GA is designed, what do the two of you think I mean by that? You're trying to solve a problem. You have to figure out some way to represent your problem as a genotype. There has to be a mapping of the genotype to the solution domain. This all requires intelligent design. Do you really want to argue this? Is there some general purpose genotype that works for all domains that you'd care to share with me?Mung
May 3, 2015
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Mung: I’ll bet your genotype is designed for your landscape. Zachriel: No. Genotypes evolve by random mutation of letters and random recombination of snippets. And how does that even begin to address my claim? Zachriel: If and when they form a word, they are added to the population. What do words (or letters for that matter) have to do with anything? Why are you weeding out potential solutions in advance? Oh, that's right. You're using a dictionary. Dictionaries contain words. Words are constructed from letters. Your genotype is designed to work with your landscape. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dictionary Why would you even deny this? Now take your example genome and use a Chinese or Arabic dictionary in your application without modification to the design of your genome. Elizabeth Liddle:
This just isn’t correct, Mung. You keep saying it, but it isn’t true.
I keep saying it because it is true. What will happen to your NSCSI program if we change the design of the genotype you used? Will it still show that Natural Selection can create Complex Specified Information? That fact that you can sit here and claim that you did not design the genotype you used in that program is just mind boggling. Did someone else design it? Walk us through it. You know what I am saying is true and any standard text on GA's will say the same thing I am saying.Mung
May 3, 2015
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The literature is replete with studies of evolutionary algorithms.
Yes and they all support evolution by intelligent design. Is that your point?Joe
May 3, 2015
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AVIDA is not a genetic algorithm and it does not simulate Darwinian evolution. With evolutionism the "target" is already reached- that "target" being survival and reproduction. Whatever else happens is contingent serendipity.Joe
May 3, 2015
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Mung:
I can quote you on this over at TSZ? Darwinian evolution is a search?
As long as you retain my scare quotes, sure. It can be thought of as a "search" as long as we are clear about the ways in which it is, and is not, like a literal search. Just as you can describe my post as "food for thought", as long as you do not complain about being hungry afterwards.Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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Mung:
And, Zachriel, I’ll bet your genotype is designed for your landscape. Yes, folks, the candidate solutions must be designed. (Well, they don’t have to be designed. But good luck going down that road.)
This just isn't correct, Mung. You keep saying it, but it isn't true. The only thing you need to "design in" to your starting genotype is the ability to replicate with variation, in other words, you need to do the "OoL" part. Then the population evolves a solution. If you knew the optimum solution before you started, you wouldn't need to run the system. In AVIDA, for instance, none of the starting population need be able to perform any functions at all, and most mutations are not advantageous - many are disadvantageous. Yet functions evolve, and they manner in which the successful organisms perform the functions is different every time (or can be - not sure how many solutions there are to each function). You DON'T design in the solution. What you "design in" (apart from your starter population of minimally-reproducing virtual organism) is the problem. The problem you want solved is the fitness function. In order to survive and breed better than their fellows, individual virtual organisms have to solve your problem better than their fellows - you don't tell them how to do it. Eventually, you get a population of virtual organisms that can solve the problem really efficiently - but by a method that you did not know beforehand, nor did you program in. In nature, of course, you don't need a designer to "design in" the problem. It's right there, in the environment: "use these resources and avoid these threats and you will survive to breed and breed again".Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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Mung: I’ll bet your genotype is designed for your landscape. No. Genotypes evolve by random mutation of letters and random recombination of snippets. If and when they form a word, they are added to the population. Like this: o ox box fox for fore fort And so on.Zachriel
May 3, 2015
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And, Zachriel, I'll bet your genotype is designed for your landscape. Yes, folks, the candidate solutions must be designed. (Well, they don't have to be designed. But good luck going down that road.)Mung
May 3, 2015
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Mung: If you and Zachriel insist on hand-waving, please wave your hands over your keyboard and come up with some actual code that can be tested. The literature is replete with studies of evolutionary algorithms. All you need is the basic process to test it for yourself. Try Weasel for a very simple example, and work your way up from there. None of this is rocket engineering.Zachriel
May 3, 2015
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Elzabeth Liddle:
All I have to do is to make sure that candidate solutions that partly solve it breed with higher problems than candidate solutions that solve it less well.
And that's where you're wrong, and that's where Zachriel is wrong. If you and Zachriel insist on hand-waving, please wave your hands over your keyboard and come up with some actual code that can be tested. Elizabeth Liddle:
So if you are discussing something other than Darwinian evolution, you might be in the wrong thread! That’s what “evolutionary search” is.
I can quote you on this over at TSZ? Darwinian evolution is a search?Mung
May 3, 2015
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Mung: Now code that up into something that can be tested on a computer. Been there. Done that. One of many we created used the dictionary as a fitness landscape. An IDer had claimed it couldn't be traversed by an evolutionary algorithm, that it would stall after no more than seven letter words. Zachriel: The question, then, isn’t mathematical, but empirical. Mung: Indeed. The claim was of a mathematical proof. By agreeing that it is empirical, you are rejecting that original argument.Zachriel
May 3, 2015
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Zachriel, you're predictable to a Ti. Now code that up into something that can be tested on a computer. Zachriel said:
The question, then, isn’t mathematical, but empirical.
Indeed. And then when asked to put something to an empirical test you can't come through.Mung
May 3, 2015
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cantor: I can’t have an adult conversation with someone who gets their jollies posting something like that. Our statement had a point. You conflated different meanings of the word information when you said "Only because the information is front-loaded into the landscape (or the search)." cantor: What you are describing above sounds like front-loaded design, not Darwinian evolution. To return to your statement, that the natural world is highly ordered makes it amenable to evolution. For instance, sunlight emanates from a single source, a typical ordering that allows plants to orient themselves towards the light, and compete for that light. You can say this was "front-loaded", but astronomers would say it's because of gravity and accretion and hydrogen fusion. cantor: Weasel is teleological, which is exactly what Darwin did *not* intend. So it’s a discredited example of Darwinism. Weasel was not proposed as a model of biological evolution, but as a simple example of an evolutionary algorithm with a specific target showing that it would work much faster than random search.Zachriel
May 3, 2015
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46 Elizabeth Liddle May 3, 2015 at 8:00 am when I use the system Zachriel describes to find a solution to a problem, I do not know the solution in advance (or I wouldn’t bother to use the system). The system finds an optimal solution to my problem.
I use SCO and DEPS "evolutionary" search algorithms all the time in my work. I put "evolutionary" in quotes because such algorithms have nothing to do with "evolution" (as meant by the leading proponents of "evolution"): I have to front-load the search with a distant goal. That's not Darwinian. ~cantor
May 3, 2015
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46 Elizabeth Liddle May 3, 2015 at 8:00 am Weasel is not “discredited” Cantor. It was just a very simplistic model
Good choice of words, simplistic. Synonyms: Facile, jejune, naive. http://i.imgur.com/jfiWTKK.png Weasel is teleological, which is exactly what Darwin did *not* intend. So it's a discredited example of Darwinism.cantor
May 3, 2015
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52 Zachriel May 3, 2015 at 8:08 am plants grow upward towards the sky is due to Apollo crossing the sky in a fiery chariot and the plants’ desire to touch the gods.
I can't have an adult conversation with someone who gets their jollies posting something like that. So you just dropped off my radar, Mr Z. Goodbye. ~cantor
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cantor: To facilitate dialog and avoid equivocation I call the former “adaptation” and the latter Darwinian evolution Evolution by natural selection is what is normally meant by darwinian evolution. Darwin's theory is two-fold, adaptation plus branching descent.Zachriel
May 3, 2015
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