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Is something rotten in the state of Denmark?

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Denmark and Sweden are two countries which are often cited by atheists as proof that secular morality can work. Professor Jerry Coyne, for instance, has written dozens of articles praising Denmark (see here for instance, and see also here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here). At the end of one here, directed at Rabbi Joseph Sacks, Coyne writes:

My answer is this: Sweden and Denmark, dear Rabbi. Are those countries, which are largely atheistic, immoral and falling apart? I don’t think so.

And what about this?

If Scruton wants to see how much a truly secular society devalues the sacred, I suggest that he get himself to Sweden or Denmark. Do the Danes and Swedes abjure what Scruton calls the “sacred”? Do they not value life and love and art? Not that I’ve seen! Do they not appreciate knowledge and literature? Who, after all, gives out the Nobel Prizes?

Or this?

If atheism really did dispose of morality, why are countries like Sweden and Denmark, which are largely atheistic, still moral? Are they deluding themselves? No, they have good secular reasons to adhere to moral principles.

Or this?

Perhaps one happy day we’ll be like Denmark!

Perhaps Coyne might be interested to read an eye-opening article by Carol Brown over at American Thinker on what is happening in Denmark. Ms. Brown paints a terrifying portrait of a society which is falling apart under the influence of religiously motivated violence. Crime in Denmark has exploded, and street gangs “have taken over large parts of Danish towns and cities. There are numerous “no go” zones where even the police are afraid to venture. Is this Coyne’s idea of a successful secular society?

Some morals to be drawn from Brown’s article:

1. Not all forms of religion are good; some are toxic.

2. Nature abhors a vacuum. Secularism is powerless to drive out toxic forms of religion.

3. The only proven way to drive out toxic forms of religion, and keep them out, is with wholesome forms of religion.

What do readers think?

Comments
For one, why would Coyne say that Denmark and Sweden are largely atheistic? As pointed out by ba77, their culture is built on Christianity - Denmark even has a state church, if I'm not mistaken. Even you accept the unsubstantiated assertion that most current Danes are not religious (most polls I've seen put the number of "atheists" at &lt 25%), you have to admit that their current culture of respect for rule of law, legal system, and existing laws were formulated and implemented under Christianity. Yet another case of modern-day atheists trying to steal credit for what Christianity built. Ho-hum. As for the point of the OP - one of the things that seems to happen frequently is that, as Muslim populations move in and build local enclaves, crime tends not to be reported or enforced as often in those areas (c.f. Britain's recent issues). Thus, it is possible for reported crime rates to go down (MF) and yet crime still be on the rise (OP).drc466
October 14, 2014
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Oops the wicked....Andre
October 14, 2014
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Forgot to add, the rightousess take care of his animals, the mercy of the picked is cruel. One of the beautiful Proverbs of the bible.Andre
October 14, 2014
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Zoophilia is of course legal in Denmark and its animal brothels draw huge crowds, there are talks of banning bestiality but it looks like the attempt to create the law will collapse, because people sure love their sexual relationships with animals in Denmark.....Andre
October 14, 2014
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08:54 AM
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We are at the beginning of the age when atheists find out how much of the world they enjoy today - including individual freedom and rights - only exists due to the Western world's Judeo-Christian foundation. Once you rip that out, it's nothing but might makes right all the way down.William J Murray
October 14, 2014
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08:36 AM
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Mr. Frank, are you saying that those events did not occur and that my link for crime that is 'based on figures' is invalid? But why should your figures matter more than mine that contradicted your claims, and why should 'on the scene' news reports of Muslim gang violence, 'no go zones', sharia law, etc.. in Denmark, be discounted as not trustworthy by you? It is clear you are merely trying to score rhetorical points and are as dishonest as to the actual evidence at hand as ever! par for the course with you! I'm sure Dr. Torley will unpack all of this more fully and I don't see it ending well for you when all the facts are on the table.bornagain77
October 14, 2014
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BA77 #6 If you can't tell the difference between a report based on figures and anecdotal tales selected to support a political position then you are in for a life-time of illusions.Mark Frank
October 14, 2014
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This evidence, contrary to what Mr. Franks claims, looks very credible to me,,, http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3459/denmark-muslim-country http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3064/muslim-voters-europe http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2941/muslim-gangs-denmark http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3968/denmark-grand-mosque http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2444/denmark-mega-mosque http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3936/denmark-bans-meatballs http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2530/denmark-sharia-hezbollah http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3578/lars-hedegaard-assassinationbornagain77
October 14, 2014
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07:27 AM
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The argument for Atheism in this case goes somewhat like this,,, Sure China and Russia, where atheism was the enforced state religion, massacred millions of their own people, but just look at Sweden and Denmark who are still nursing off the teat of a Judeo-Christian foundation! they are not massacring millions of their own people, and are relatively peaceful,,, Small comfort for those who lived through the horrors of the 20th century!bornagain77
October 14, 2014
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Is the point that secular morality can be undermined by religious immorality? Or are you saying that a peaceful, secular and liberal nation can be easily abused by religious zealots? Or are you warning us that if we become like Denmark then we we too will be easily abused? Because I am sure there are plenty of people already abusing us, ie the system.Joe
October 14, 2014
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methinks me smell something rotten in Mr. Franks citation,,, Denmark Crime Stats - "Denmark has one of the highest total number of crimes globally, with 491,026 crimes reported in 2002 - the 24th highest. Indeed, some 23% of the population claim to have been victims of a crime. Despite these facts, Danish people believe that their country is one of the safest, with 81% stating they feel they can walk in the dark safely, and 71% admitting their are satisfied with police efficiency." http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Denmark/Crimebornagain77
October 14, 2014
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The real problem with secular states is the below replacement fertility rate. Denmark has a fertility rate of 1.73, or a social mortality rate of 18% per generation. In about 300 years over 90% will have disappeared. This is genocide by the definition of the world court - preventing babies from being born. Secularism -> feminism -> destruction of the traditional family -> extinction, hardly in women's best interests. This is the path of every secular society, so eat this idiot Coyne. "I am the vine and you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." John 15:5. I love the double meaning in this quote. Not only can you bear no religious fruit, i.e. your congregations will wither, but it is also true of life in general. As we all know, Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. Or even more succinctly: "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." Matthew 5:5. Most people misinterpret meek. They think timid. The bible is a religious book. Meek means obedient to God.Peter
October 14, 2014
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VJ This may just be the worst OP you have ever posted.  You have read a rabid anti-muslim article which gives an incredibly misleading picture of crime in Denmark based on anecdotal evidence (and then suggests that the same thing is about to happen in not-so-secular USA). In fact, violent crime in Denmark has always been low and is dropping; while non-violent crime rates have never been particularly low but are also dropping (same reference). You then go on to argue that because a peaceful, tolerant secular society is endangered by a religious minority the problem lies with the secular society for not being religious enough!Mark Frank
October 14, 2014
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