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It’s all about information, Professor Feser

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Over at his blog, Professor Edward Feser has been writing a multi-part critique of Professor Alex Rosenberg’s bestselling book, The Atheist’s Guide to Reality: Enjoying Life without Illusions. Rosenberg is an unabashed defender of scientism, an all-out reductionist who doesn’t believe in a “self”, doesn’t believe we have thoughts that are genuinely about anything, and doesn’t believe in free will or morality. Instead, he advocates what he calls “nice nihilism.” In the last line of his book, Rosenberg advises his readers to “Take a Prozac or your favorite serotonin reuptake inhibitor, and keep taking them till they kick in.”

Edward Feser has done an excellent job of demolishing Rosenberg’s arguments, and if readers want to peruse his posts from start to finish, they can read them all here:

Part One
Part Two
Part Three
Part Four
Part Five
Part Six

Professor Rosenberg’s argument that Darwinism is incompatible with God

In his latest installment, Professor Feser takes aim at an argument put forward by Rosenberg, that Darwinism is incompatible with the idea that God is omniscient. In his reply to Rosenberg, Feser also takes a swipe at Intelligent Design, about which I’ll have more to say below. In the meantime, let’s have a look at Rosenberg’s argument against theistic evolution.

Rosenberg argues as follows: Darwinian processes, being non-teleological, do not aim at the generation of any particular kind of species, including the human species. What’s more, these processes contain a built-in element of irreducible randomness: variation. Mutations are random, and no one could have known in advance that evolution would go the way it did. Therefore if God had used such processes as a means of creating us, He could not have known that they would be successful, and therefore He would not be omniscient.

In his response, Feser criticizes Professor Rosenberg’s argument on several grounds, arguing that:

(i) belief in the God of classical theism does not logically entail that the emergence of the human race was an event planned by Him (i.e. God might have intentionally made the cosmos, but we might have been an accident);

(ii) God may have intended that the universe should contain rational beings (who possess the ability to reason by virtue of their having immortal souls) without intending that these beings should be human beings, with the kind of body that Homo sapiens possesses – hence our bodies may be the result of an accidental process;

(iii) if you believe in the multiverse (which Feser doesn’t but Rosenberg does), it is perfectly consistent to hold that while the evolution of Homo sapiens may have been improbable in any particular universe, nevertheless it would have been inevitable within some universe; and

(iv) in any case, the probabilistic nature of Darwinian processes does not rule out divine intervention.

Professor Feser’s big beef with Rosenberg’s argument: Divine causality is of a different order from that of natural causes

But Professor Feser’s chief objection to Rosenberg’s anti-theistic argument is that it ignores the distinction between Divine and creaturely causality. At this point, Feser takes pains to distinguish his intellectual position from that of the Intelligent Design movement. He remarks: “What Aristotelian-Thomistic critics of ID fundamentally object to is ID’s overly anthropomorphic conception of God and its implicit confusion of primary and secondary causality.” (I should point out in passing that Intelligent Design is a scientific program, and as such, it makes no claim to identify the Designer. Nevertheless, many Intelligent Design proponents would be happy to refer to this Designer as God.)

God, argues Feser, is like the author of a book. Intelligent natural agents (e.g. human beings) are the characters in the story, while sub-intelligent agents correspond to the everyday processes described within the story. The key point here is that God is outside the book that He creates and maintains in existence (i.e. the cosmos), while we are inside it. God’s causality is therefore of an entirely different order from that of creatures. To say that God intervened in the history of life in order to guarantee that Homo sapiens would emerge (as Rosenberg seems to think that believers in God-guided evolution are bound to believe) is tantamount to treating God like one of the characters in His own story. In Feser’s words, it “is like saying that the author of a novel has to ‘intervene’ in the story at key points, keeping events from going the way they otherwise would in order to make sure that they turn out the way he needs them to for the story to work.” In reality, authors don’t need to intervene into their stories to obtain the outcomes they want, and neither need we suppose that God intervened in the history of life on Earth, so as to guarantee the emergence of human beings.

Feser then argues that things in the world derive their being and causal power from God, just as the characters in a story only exist and alter the course of events within the story because the author of the story wrote it in a way that allows them to do so. For this reason, Feser has no philosophical problem with the notion of Darwinian processes being sufficient to generate life, or biological species such as Homo sapiens. Causal agents possesss whatever powers God wants them to have, and their (secondary) causality is genuine, and perfectly compatible with the (primary) causality of God, their Creator. Just as “it would be absurd to suggest that in a science fiction novel in which such-and-such a species evolves, it is not really Darwinian processes that generate the species, but rather the author of the story who does so and merely made it seem as if Darwinian processes had done it,” so too, “it is absurd to suggest that if God creates a world in which human beings come about by natural selection, He would have to intervene in order to make the Darwinian processes come out the way He wants them to, in which case they would not be truly Darwinian.”

The problem isn’t one of insufficient causal power in Nature; it’s all about information

When I read this passage, I thought, “Aha! Now I see why Professor Feser thinks Intelligent Design proponents have got the wrong end of the stick. Now I see why he thinks we are committed to belief in a tinkering Deity who has to intervene in the natural order in order to change it.” For Feser inadvertently revealed two very interesting things in his thought-provoking post.

The first thing that Professor Feser inadvertently revealed was that he thinks that the difficulty that Intelligent Design proponents have with Darwinian evolution has to do with power – in particular, the causal powers of natural agents. As an Aristotelian-Thomist, Feser sees no difficulty in principle with God granting natural agents whatever causal powers He wishes, so long as they are not powers that only a Creator could possess. Why could not God therefore give mud the power to evolve into microbes, and thence into biological species such as Homo sapiens?

But the problem that Intelligent Design advocates have with this scenario has nothing to do with the powers of causal agents. Rather, it’s all about information: complex specified information, to be precise. By definition, any pattern in Nature that is highly improbable (from a naturalistic perspective) but is nevertheless capable of being described in a few words, instantiates complex specified information (CSI). So the philosophical question we need to address here is not: could God give mud the power to evolve into microbes and thence into the body of a man, but rather: could God give mud the complex specified information required for it to evolve into microbes and thence into the body of a man?

The answer to this question, as Edward Feser should be aware from having read Professor Michael Behe’s book, The Edge of Evolution (Free Press, 2007, pp. 238-239), is that Intelligent Design theory is perfectly compatible with such front-loading scenarios. Indeed, Behe argues that God might have fine-tuned the initial conditions of the universe at the Big Bang, in such a way that life’s subsequent evolution – and presumably that of human beings – was inevitable, without the need for any subsequent acts of God.

A second possibility is that God added complex specified information to the universe at some point (or points) subsequent to the Big Bang – e.g. at the dawn of life, or the Cambrian explosion – thereby guaranteeing the results He intended.

A third possibility is that the universe contains hidden laws, as yet unknown to science, which are very detailed, highly elaborate and specific, unlike the simple laws of physics that we know. On this scenario, complex specified information belongs to the very warp and woof of the universe: it’s a built-in feature, requiring no initial fine-tuning.

Personally, my own inclination is to plump for the second scenario, and say that we live in a cosmos which is made to be manipulated: it’s an inherently incomplete, open system, and the “gaps” are a vital part of Nature, just as the holes are a vital feature of Swiss cheese. I see no reason to believe in the existence of hidden, information-rich laws of the cosmos, especially when all the laws we know are low in information content; moreover, as Dr. Stephen Meyer has pointed out in his book, Signature in the Cell, all the scientific evidence we have points against the idea of “biochemical predestination”: simple chemicals do not naturally arrange themselves into complex information-bearing molecules such as DNA. I also think that front-loading the universe at the Big Bang would have required such an incredibly exquisite amount of fine-tuning on God’s part that it would have been much simpler for Him to “inject” complex specified information into the cosmos at a later date, when it was required. (When I say “at a later date”, I mean “later” from our time-bound perspective, of course, as the God of classical theism is timeless.) However, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Complex specified information has to come from somewhere

One thing I’m quite sure of, though: not even God could make a universe without finely-tuned initial conditions and without information-rich laws, that was still capable of generating life without any need for a special act of God (or what Intelligent Design critics derogatorily refer to as “Divine intervention”, “manipulation” or “tinkering”). The reason why this couldn’t happen is that complex specified information doesn’t come from nowhere. It needs a source. And this brings me to the second point that Professor Feser inadvertently revealed in his post: he seems to think that information can just appear in the cosmos wherever God wants it to appear, without God having to perform any specific act that generates it.

This is where the book metaphor leads Feser astray, I believe. The author of a book doesn’t have to specify exactly how the events in his/her story unfold. All stories written by human authors are under-specified, in terms of both the states of affairs they describe – e.g. what’s the color of the house at 6 Privet Drive, next door to Harry Potter’s house? – and in terms of the processes occurring within the story – e.g. how exactly do magic wands do their work in Harry Potter? What law is involved? J. K. Rowling doesn’t tell us these things, and I don’t think most of her readers care, anyway.

But here’s the thing: God can’t afford to be vague about such matters. He’s not just writing a story; He’s making a world. Everything that He brings about in this world, He has to specify in some way: what happens, and how does it happen?

One way in which God could bring about a result He desires is by specifying the initial conditions in sufficient detail, such that the result is guaranteed to arise, given the ordinary course of events.

A second way for God to bring about a result He wants is for Him to specify the exact processes generating the result, in such detail that its subsequent production is bound to occur. (On this scenario, God brings about His desired effect through the operation of deterministic laws.)

A third way for God to produce a desired effect is for Him to make use of processes that do not infallibly yield a set result – i.e. probabilistic occurrences, which take place in accordance with indeterministic laws, and which involve a certain element of what we call randomness. In this case, God would not only have to specify the probabilistic processes He intends to make use of, but also specify the particular outcome He desires these processes to generate. (This could be accomplished by God without Him having to bias the probabilities of the processes in any way: all that is needed is top-down causation, which leaves the micro-level probabilistic processes intact but imposes an additional macro-level constraint on the outcome. For a description of how this would work, see my recent post, Is free will dead?)

Finally, God may refuse to specify any natural process or set of initial conditions that could help to generate the result He desires, and instead, simply specify the precise spatio-temporal point in the history of the cosmos.at which the result will occur. That’s what we call an act of God, and in such a case, the result is said to be brought about purely by God’s will, which acts as an immediate efficient cause generating the effect.

But whatever the way in which God chooses to bring about the result He desires, He must make a choice. He cannot simply specify the effect He desires, without specifying its cause – whether it be His Will acting immediately on Nature to bring about a desired effect, or some natural process and/or set of conditions operating in a manner that tends to generate the effect. Whatever God does, God has to do somehow.

But couldn’t God make evolution occur as a result of a probabilistic process?

Let’s go back to the third way available to God for generating a desired result: namely, working through probabilistic processes. What does Intelligent Design theory have to say about this Divine modus operandi? Basically, what it says is that it is impossible for God to remain hidden, if He chooses this way of acting, and if the desired effect is both improbable (in the normal course of events) and capable of being described very briefly – in other words, rich in complex specified information. For even if the micro-level probabilities are in no way affected by His agency, the macro-level effect constitutes a pattern in Nature which we can recognize as the work of an intelligent agent, since it is rich in CSI.

Professor Feser, working from his authorial metaphor for God, seems to have overlooked this point. The human author of a story can simply write: “Y occurred, as a freakish but statistically possible result of process X.” Here, the author simply specifies the result he/she intends (effect Y) and the process responsible (probabilistic process X, which, as luck would have it, produced Y). Because the effect in the story (Y) is both the result of a natural process (X) occurring in the story, and the result (on a higher level) of the author’s will, it appears that nothing more needs to be said. Feser seems to think that the same holds true for effects brought about by God, working through probabilistic processes: they are both the work of Nature and the work of God. Hence, he believes, nothing prevents God from producing life by a Darwinistic process, if He so chooses.

Not so fast, say Intelligent Design proponents. Probabilistic processes have no inherent tendency to generate outcomes that can be concisely described in language. If an outcome that can be described in a very concise manner is generated by a probabilistic process, and if the likelihood of the outcome is sufficiently low, then it is simply wrong to put this down to the work of Nature. The real work here is done by God, the Intelligent Agent Who specified the outcome in question. It’s fundamentally wrong to give any credit to the natural probabilistic process for the result obtained, in a case like this: for even if God works through such a process, the process itself has no tendency to aim for concisely describable outcomes. God-guided evolution is therefore by definition non-Darwinian. Contrary to Feser, it is not absurd for Intelligent Design proponents to argue that when “such-and-such a species evolves, it is not really Darwinian processes that generate the species,” since Darwinian processes are inherently incapable of generating large amounts of complex specific information, and when we trace the evolution of any species back far enough, we will find that large amounts of complex specific information had to be generated.

Putting it another way: not even God could make an unintelligent natural process with a built-in tendency to hone in on outcomes having a short verbal description. Such a feat is logically impossible, because it would be tantamount to making an unintelligent process capable of making linguistic choices – which is absurd, because language is a hallmark of intelligent agents. Not even God can accomplish that which is logically imposible.

I hope Professor Feser now recognizes what the real point at issue is between Darwinism and Intelligent Design theory. I hope he also realizes that Intelligent Design is not committed to an anthropomorphic Deity, or to any particular Divine modus operandi. ID proponents are well aware of the distinction between primary and secondary causality; we just don’t think it’s very useful in addressing the problem of where the complex specified information in Nature came from. The problem here is not one of finding a primary (or secondary) cause that can generate the information, but rather one of finding an intelligent agent that can do so. Lastly, ID proponents do not think of God as a “tinkerer who cleverly intervenes in a natural order that could in principle have carried on without him,” for the simple reason that Intelligent Design is a scientific program concerned with the detection of patterns in Nature that are the result of intelligent agency, and not a metaphysical program concerned with the being of Nature as such. Metaphysical arguments that Nature depends for its being on God are all well and good, but they’re not scientific arguments as such. For this reason, these metaphysical arguments fall outside the province of Intelligent Design, although they are highly regarded by some ID proponents.

Is Variation Random?

Finally, I’d like to challenge the claim made by Professor Rosenberg and other Darwinists that biological variation is random. Stephen Talbott has skilfully dismantled this claim in a highly original article in The New Atlantis, entitled, Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness. Talbott takes aim at the oft-heard claim, popularized by Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett, that Nature operates with no purpose in mind, and that evolution is the outcome of random variation, culled by the non-random but mindless mechanism of natural selection. Talbott’s scientific arguments against Dawkins and Dennett are devastating, and he makes a convincing scientific case that mutation is anything but random in real life; that the genomes of organisms respond to environmental changes in a highly co-ordinated and purposeful fashion; and that even the most minimal definition of random variation – i.e. the commonly held view that the chance that a specific mutation will occur is not affected by how useful that mutation would be – crumbles upon inspection, as the whole concept of “usefulness” or “fitness” turns out to be irretrievably obscure. At the end of his article, Talbott summarizes his case:

Here, then, is what the advocates of evolutionary mindlessness and meaninglessness would have us overlook. We must overlook, first of all, the fact that organisms are masterful participants in, and revisers of, their own genomes, taking a leading position in the most intricate, subtle, and intentional genomic “dance” one could possibly imagine. And then we must overlook the way the organism responds intelligently, and in accord with its own purposes, to whatever it encounters in its environment, including the environment of its own body, and including what we may prefer to view as “accidents.” Then, too, we are asked to ignore not only the living, reproducing creatures whose intensely directed lives provide the only basis we have ever known for the dynamic processes of evolution, but also all the meaning of the larger environment in which these creatures participate — an environment compounded of all the infinitely complex ecological interactions that play out in significant balances, imbalances, competition, cooperation, symbioses, and all the rest, yielding the marvelously varied and interwoven living communities we find in savannah and rainforest, desert and meadow, stream and ocean, mountain and valley. And then, finally, we must be sure to pay no heed to the fact that the fitness, against which we have assumed our notion of randomness could be defined, is one of the most obscure, ill-formed concepts in all of science.

Overlooking all this, we are supposed to see — somewhere — blind, mindless, random, purposeless automatisms at the ultimate explanatory root of all genetic variation leading to evolutionary change….

This “something random” … is the central miracle in a gospel of meaninglessness, a “Randomness of the gaps,” demanding an extraordinarily blind faith. At the very least, we have a right to ask, “Can you be a little more explicit here?” A faith that fills the ever-shrinking gaps in our knowledge of the organism with a potent meaninglessness capable of transforming everything else into an illusion is a faith that could benefit from some minimal grounding. Otherwise, we can hardly avoid suspecting that the importance of randomness in the minds of the faithful is due to its being the only presumed scrap of a weapon in a compulsive struggle to deny all the obvious meaning of our lives.

My response to Rosenberg

I would like to briefly respond to Professor Rosenberg’s argument that belief in God is incompatible with Darwinism. He is right about one thing: not even God can use randomness to bring about highly specific results, without “injecting” the complex specified information that guarantees the production of the result in question. If you’re a thoroughgoing Darwinist who believes that evolutionary variation is inherently random and that Nature is a closed system, then there’s no way for God to do His work. However, on an empirical level, I see no reason to believe that evolutionary variation is inherently random: Talbott’s article, from which I quoted above, cites evidence that the effects of environmental change on an organism’s genome are highly co-ordinated by the organism itself. What’s more, recent scientific evidence that even the multiverse must have had a beginning, and that even the multiverse must have been exquisitely fine-tuned, points very strongly to the fact that Nature is not a closed system. (See my article, Vilenkin’s verdict: “All the evidence we have says that the universe had a beginning”, which also contains links to my recent posts on cosmological fine-tuning.) And of course, Professor Feser has done an excellent job of expounding the metaphysical arguments showing that Nature is not self-sufficient, but requires a Cause.

Comments
Vincent: It's useless arguing with Elizabeth about vocabulary. She has her mind made up what "Darwinian" means, and she is not going to budge. Over the past few months, Elizabeth and I carried on a running battle, on two or more threads, about the meaning of "Darwinian." First I argued that Margulis and Shapiro were anti-Darwinian. Then she denied it. Then I asked her to look at the sources I had already provided. She appeared to have looked at some, not all, of the sources I provided (I can't tell because she never quoted specific passages and analyzed them). Then she said, well, they are anti-neo-Darwinian (though she had previously denied knowing what neo-Darwinian meant, on the grounds that everyone used it so confusingly), but not anti-Darwinian. Then I showed her a passage in Shapiro where he rejected an element common to both neo-Darwinism and original Darwinism. No reply. I linked her to a Discovery series of columns where Dembski and Shapiro speak in their own words. No reply to Shapiro's specific words. So let me try one more time, from another of the Dembski-Shapiro-Gauger-Axe exchanges. Shapiro: "Proteins evolve largely by shuffling and accreting functional subregions called "domains," not through the Darwinian modifications of individual amino acids (Doolittle and Bork 1993). Domain accretion and shuffling are inherently natural genetic engineering processes (i.e. non-Darwnian) because they involve the rearrangement of extended DNA segments that encode the different domains." Source: http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/01/a_response_to_a055351.html So in one short passage, he twice indicates a disagreement with the "Darwinian" view. But adding one more passage of Shapiro, or Margulis, or any other evolutionary biologist, won't do any good. Elizabeth has decided what "Darwinian" means, and that everyone should use the word "Darwinian" in her way -- even professional evolutionary biologists like Shapiro. Given a choice between using terms the way the professional evolutionary biologists do, and the way a neuroscientist with a hobby of reading up on evolutionary biology does, it seems to me that the choice is clear. There will be less confusion if we follow the language used by the evolutionary biologists themselves. Elizabeth is free to use words any way she likes; but she had no authority to offer her private definition of "Darwinian" as *the* definition of "Darwinian." So I would advise everyone here to simply ignore her when she raises these quarrels over words. If she doesn't like the way professional evolutionary biologists use words, she can take the argument to them and try to reform the language of the field. As for me, I'm quite content to use the language that has become intelligible to most scientists and lay interpreters of science for the last 100 years or so. And I'm pleased to see that most ID proponents have taken the same line. T.Timaeus
January 30, 2012
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And Mr. Rickert, exactly how is this 'self design' accomplished? Do you have any evidence of even one molecular machine being 'self designed' by the 'intelligence' within the cell?
"There are no detailed Darwinian accounts for the evolution of any fundamental biochemical or cellular system only a variety of wishful speculations. It is remarkable that Darwinism is accepted as a satisfactory explanation of such a vast subject." James Shapiro - Molecular Biologist
Perhaps you have an example of one these following molecular machines being 'self designed' by a cell?
Bacterial Flagellum - A Sheer Wonder Of Intelligent Design - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3994630 The ATP Synthase Enzyme - exquisite motor necessary for first life - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3KxU63gcF4 Powering the Cell: Mitochondria - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrS2uROUjK4 Molecular Machine - Nuclear Pore Complex - Stephen C. Meyer - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4261990 Programming of Life - Protein Synthesis - video http://www.youtube.com/user/Programmingoflife#p/c/AFDF33F11E2FB840/4/m5Z3afBdxB0 Kinesin Linear Motor - Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOeJwQ0OXc4 DNA - Replication, Wrapping & Mitosis http://vimeo.com/33882804
or if you can't find an example of 'self design' for one of those molecular machines there are several more here that you can look for examples for:
The following article has a list of 40 (yes, 40) irreducibly complex molecular machines in the cell: Molecular Machines in the Cell - http://www.discovery.org/a/14791
and after you get done producing any evidence whatsoever that cells can 'self design' any molecular machine from scratch, then you can work on refuting this falsification of neo-Darwinism:
Falsification Of Neo-Darwinism by 'non-local' Quantum Entanglement/Information https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p8AQgqFqiRQwyaF8t1_CKTPQ9duN8FHU9-pV4oBDOVs/edit?hl=en_US
bornagain77
January 30, 2012
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bornagain77:
Would you accept Intelligent Design if its name were changed to Clever Design? What if we changed it to Clever Evolution instead, would you then accept it?
I don't particularly care about the name. I am not offended by the idea of intelligent design, if one is talking about intelligence within biological systems redesigning themselves. The objection is to the idea of an external designer, for which no evidence has been presented. I'm not certain, but I think Elizabeth Liddle has also expressed agreement with the idea of intelligence within biological systems, and self-design. And that seems to be Shapiro's view. In any case, the argument about names misses the point. The basic problem with ID is its use of politics to try to force ID into the classroom. Call off the politicians, and work on the science. If there is enough good science forthcoming, then scientists will become interested.Neil Rickert
January 30, 2012
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as to this comment:
They use randomness, but they use it cleverly.
HMMM???? Would you accept Intelligent Design if its name were changed to Clever Design? What if we changed it to Clever Evolution instead, would you then accept it? notes:
Michael Behe, The Edge of Evolution, pg. 162 Swine Flu, Viruses, and the Edge of Evolution "Indeed, the work on malaria and AIDS demonstrates that after all possible unintelligent processes in the cell--both ones we've discovered so far and ones we haven't--at best extremely limited benefit, since no such process was able to do much of anything. It's critical to notice that no artificial limitations were placed on the kinds of mutations or processes the microorganisms could undergo in nature. Nothing--neither point mutation, deletion, insertion, gene duplication, transposition, genome duplication, self-organization nor any other process yet undiscovered--was of much use." http://www.evolutionnews.org/2009/05/swine_flu_viruses_and_the_edge.html A review of The Edge of Evolution: The Search for the Limits of Darwinism The numbers of Plasmodium and HIV in the last 50 years greatly exceeds the total number of mammals since their supposed evolutionary origin (several hundred million years ago), yet little has been achieved by evolution. This suggests that mammals could have "invented" little in their time frame. Behe: ‘Our experience with HIV gives good reason to think that Darwinism doesn’t do much—even with billions of years and all the cells in that world at its disposal’ (p. 155). http://creation.com/review-michael-behe-edge-of-evolution
bornagain77
January 30, 2012
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OK, thanks for that. Interesting. However, I remain of my view: Shapiro is not challenging the fundamental Darwinian algorithm, merely the size of certain steps. He could be right. And sure, high school kids should hear about his views. What would be very misleading though, would be to present them as a challenge to the basic theory of evolution (that heritable variation in reproductive success in the current environment leads to adaptive change), because it doesn't. It merely provides a(nother) causal mechanism for genetic variation. But I think this is mostly a terminological issue. Shapiro seems to call himself (or class himself as) an "evolutionist". He explicitly puts forward a new theory of variance generation. He writes, at the end of that paper:
This 21st century scenario assumes a major role for the kind of cellular sensitivities and genomic responses emphasized by McClintock in her 1984 Nobel Prize address [1]. Such a cognitive component is absent from conventional evolutionary theory because 19th and 20th century evolutionists were not sufficiently knowledgeable about cellular response and control networks. This 21st century view of evolution establishes a reasonable connection between ecological changes, cell and organism responses, widespread genome restructuring, and the rapid emergence of adaptive inventions. It also answers the objections to conventional theory raised by intelligent design advocates, because evolution by natural genetic engineering has the capacity to generate complex novelties. In other words, our best defense against anti-science obscurantism comes from the study of mobile DNA because that is the subject that has most significantly transformed evolution from natural history into a vibrant empirical science.
As I said, he is talking about the evolution of evolvability. And as I have also been saying for years, he is regarding evolutionary processes as an intelligent system. In that sense - and in that sense only - I am an ID advocate, and always have been. And I think Dembski inadvertently hit on a real truth when he noted the "pattern that signifies design" although I think he defined it badly. He also, correctly, inferred that the key component of a "designer" is the capacity to select what works ("choose between options"). What he didn't see is that this description applies to evolutionary processes, which are therefore, by his own logic, capable of design. In other words, the "designer" in question is intrinsic to the biosphere itself. It's a bootstrapped system. Shapiro, although I'm not convinced he's right about some things, is taken seriously because he's potentially shedding important light on just how "intelligent" that evolutionary process became.Elizabeth Liddle
January 30, 2012
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Thank you, Petrushka. Whenever someone trots out the old '150 years of biology' rather than any specific example of anything you know there's not much behind it.
It is your prerogative to be hyperskeptical about extrapolating from observed processes, and it is mine to point out that you have no alternative.
As I've explained more than once, extrapolation is a logically valid concept. It does not follow that absolutely any reasoning, however faulty, becomes valid when you call it an extrapolation. Your extrapolation is unwarranted. Calling that "hyperskepticism" is pointless rhetoric. I could call you "hypergullible" but I'd much rather stick to the evidence. No alternative? Saying that I don't know and neither do you is an alternative. It's really good one. Please tell me that you don't teach science in any way, shape, or form. Lesson one: When someone uses the word "extrapolate," you have no alternative but to believe everything they tell you. No one ever offers an unwarranted extrapolation. (Let me guess - it's up to me to explain why it is not warranted.)
The first thing Darwin does in “Origin” is devote a third of the book to demonstrating the power of selection to modify plants and animals.
If the substance of evidence were measured in 'book fractions,' well, I still don't know if I'd be impressed. Is one third good? But it's not, and I'm not. That you are speaks many fractions of volumes.ScottAndrews2
January 30, 2012
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What are the odds of that happening, if there were not some underlying algorithm at work?
Gravity- also CSI is not compressible via an algorithm.Joe
January 30, 2012
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You’re begging the question. We have no way of knowing that the “known causes of genomic change” produce such observed genomes as those of orbital web-weaving spiders, dolphins, or venus flytraps.
It is your prerogative to be hyperskeptical about extrapolating from observed processes, and it is mine to point out that you have no alternative. The first thing Darwin does in "Origin" is devote a third of the book to demonstrating the power of selection to modify plants and animals. I think you could only make your assertion by ignoring 150 years of biology.Petrushka
January 30, 2012
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Hi vj,
The Kolmogorov compressibility for a DNA sequence would be very high, especially if it’s complete – e.g. “Complete DNA sequence for a human being.” (That’s a generic description, of course; if you wanted a description that would specify each and every base, you might say: “Complete DNA sequence for Tom Jones.”
That's not what Kolmogorov complexity is, and even if it were, it simply doesn't work. As I pointed out on another thread:
...I’m afraid your [Kolmogorov] criterion still leads to absurdities. “Created the universe” is adjudged more plausible than “created a new rhododendron hybrid”, and “rose from the dead” is on par with “made a coin disappear”.
You are assuming that the length of a natural language description is a proxy for Kolmogorov complexity, but it is not. Kolmogorov complexity is algorithmic complexity, and as such it has meaning only relative to a specified algorithmic description language. You can get wildly different answers depending on your choice of description language. In a description language where there are only four characters (A,C,G,T) representing the nucleotides, and no means of designating repetition, it takes a very long string to specify the DNA sequence of vjtorley. In a description language where 'X' is defined as the actual sequence of nucleotides in vjtorley's DNA, it takes only one character: X. To lessen the dependence of Kolmogorov complexity on the choice of description language, a common practice is to specify complexity relative to a universal Turing machine. In other words, the Kolmogorov complexity is represented as the concatenation of two strings: the first string is a program which enables the UTM to process strings written in the chosen description language, and the second string is the actual description in that language. If you do this, the complexity of Tom Jones' DNA sequence is much, much higher than "Complete DNA sequence for Tom Jones".champignon
January 30, 2012
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Elizabeth, One needs to be dealt MULTIPLE hands of the same thing in order to infer design.
Not according to that paper by Dembski. And in any case, my beach would still count, because it's been there for centuries, and while the actual pebbles are always changing, the order of sizes remains the same. What are the odds of that happening, if there were not some underlying algorithm at work? Tiny. That's why we can infer an underlying algorithm, even though we don't yet know exactly what it is. So Dembski is exactly half right, IMO. CSI does signify that something interesting is going on. It just doesn't signify what he thinks it signifies (well, actually he even gets that half right too - he says it signifies a selection process: something with "the power and facility to choose between options" - it's just that that something doesn't need to be an agent with foresight, as it turns out. Even a blind algorithm can sort pebbles).Elizabeth Liddle
January 30, 2012
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The problem for ID is that the known causes of genomic change produce the observed kinds of genomes (nested hierarchies, vestigial genomic elements, and so forth)
You're begging the question. We have no way of knowing that the "known causes of genomic change" produce such observed genomes as those of orbital web-weaving spiders, dolphins, or venus flytraps. We don't know that they have, we don't know why they would, and we certainly don't know whether they could. How convenient to skip over all that doesn't fit to the parts that do. It's a bit like predicting precipitation and calling it confirmed when Buicks start falling from the sky. It's a confirmation as long you carefully decide which minor details to ignore.ScottAndrews2
January 30, 2012
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Dembski is quite willing to invoke Bayesian reasoning for card games or for election rigging, but unwilling to apply it to evolution. The trick is deciding when to invoke known kinds of causes (such as cheaters) as probable causes of events that affect the causal candidates. The problem for ID is that the known causes of genomic change produce the observed kinds of genomes (nested hierarchies, vestigial genomic elements, and so forth), whereas known designers do much much more horizontal transfer, and much more cleanup. You hardly ever see tillers on automobiles or wing warping on airplanes. In fact, if you have a collection of computers you can see the gradual change in expansion slots and the gradual elimination of obsolete kinds of slots. In living things the genes for legs continue on in snakes and whales. Rather than being removed from the genome, they just get disabled. I realize this is not proof of anything, but it contributes to a Bayesian inference. The same kind of inference that leads you to suspect cheating when certain kinds of hands get dealt in card games.Petrushka
January 30, 2012
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Elizabeth, One needs to be dealt MULTIPLE hands of the same thing in order to infer design.Joe
January 30, 2012
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Hi Elizabeth: 1. The Kolmogorov compressibility for a DNA sequence would be very high, especially if it’s complete – e.g. “Complete DNA sequence for a human being.” (That’s a generic description, of course; if you wanted a description that would specify each and every base, you might say: “Complete DNA sequence for Tom Jones.” To be complete, you’d have to specify the time as well, as our DNA is continually changing due to cell mutations.)
OK (although I dispute that actually - as Dennis Noble makes clear, human DNA does not alone contain the specification for a human being - did you ever play that lecture?).
2. Regarding your beach example: the sorted pebbles have high Kolmogorov compressibility, but low Shannon complexity. If they were sorted randomly, they’d have high Shannon complexity. Since they’re sorted in order, they have low Shannon complexity, which means they don’t require an intelligent designer.
No, the sort order is irrelevant. It has a lot of Shannon information because there are lots of different pebble sizes, and therefore needs a lot of bits to code each item. In other words it has a large "alphabet". To take a simplified example: let's say you had 1000 pebble sizes, of which the smallest had diameter 1 mm, and the largest had diameter 1000 i.e. a substantial boulder, in 1 mm increments. And some blind process picked 10000 pebbles at random and put it next to the last. That sequence of diameters would have approximately 13.2877 bits of information per pebble, i.e per item in the sequence. And it would be essentially imcompressible (there might be the odd fortuitous shortcut), because there is, by definition, no way of predicting the next pebble from the last. Now rearrange those pebbles in precise size order. There is no increase or decrease in Shannon information. However there is a huge increase in compressibility. Shannon information doesn't care what order the items are arranged in, it only cares how many ways there are of arranging the items. In other words, how "improbable" is any one sequence, given the size of the alphabet (which in this case is very large - it is much smaller, of course, for DNA). Notoriously, a recording of white noise contains as much Shannon Information as a recording of Sir Winston Churchill's speeches.
What would impress me far more is a sequence of pebbles encoding the first 100 digits of pi by virtue of their sizes (0 for the smallest, 9 for the biggest): high Shannon complexity and high Kolmogorov compressibility.
But I'm not trying to impress you. I'm trying to show that even an extremely unimpressive arrangement (actually Chesil beach is awesome, but apart from that) has the same CSI, as far as I can tell, by Dembski's metric, as the first 100 digits of pi. More, actually, because it's longer, and it's got a bigger alphabet.Elizabeth Liddle
January 30, 2012
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I am not confused. If anyone is, it's Dembski. I'm simply pointing out a problem with his definition of CSI. One of his favorite examples is the dealing of cards: would you suspect skulduggery (aka "design") more if someone dealt: A♥ 2♥ 3♥ 4♥ 5♥ 6♥ 7♥ 8♥ 9♥ J♥ Q♥ K♥ than if they dealt: J♦ K♥ 3♣ 5♣ A♠ 8♥ 9♦ J♣ Q♥ 3♠ A♦ 5♣ Dembski says you would: that the first pattern suggests design, because it is much more compressible, for the same amount of Shannon Complexity (the two sequences are equiprobable) because the first is one of a small, rare subset of highly compressible sequences ("All the hearts from Ace to King") That's no different from my beach, that I can see. And my take is that in a sense he is absolutely right: both that hand of cards and Chesil beach demand an explanation - clearly some algorithm is at work in both cases. Dembski's mistake, IMO, is to infer that the explanation must always be "a designer". Not all algorithms are produced by designers. Some emerge spontaneously from non-linear systems, as on Chesil beach.Elizabeth Liddle
January 30, 2012
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Would you care to explain in what sense you believe evolutionary variation to be random?
I mean it in the sense that Talbott attributes to Futuyma. Clearly, Talbott thinks that's cheating. When people hear "random" they tend to think of what a mathematician would call "random with a uniform distribution." But that "uniform distribution" part is not at all implied by "random." Elizabeth is right, that the term "random" tends to confuse. There are problem solving techniques that are known as "Monte Carlo methods." They use randomness, but they use it cleverly. I suspect that Shapiro would probably see mutations as something like a Monte Carlo method at work. I have not read Rosenberg's book, so I can only go on what I glean from Feser's review. And that, admittedly, might be unfair to Rosenberg. That said, it seems possible that Rosenberg has overlooked the possibility of Monte Carlo methods being used.Neil Rickert
January 30, 2012
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Hi Elizabeth: 1. The Kolmogorov compressibility for a DNA sequence would be very high, especially if it's complete - e.g. "Complete DNA sequence for a human being." (That's a generic description, of course; if you wanted a description that would specify each and every base, you might say: "Complete DNA sequence for Tom Jones." To be complete, you'd have to specify the time as well, as our DNA is continually changing due to cell mutations.) 2. Regarding your beach example: the sorted pebbles have high Kolmogorov compressibility, but low Shannon complexity. If they were sorted randomly, they'd have high Shannon complexity. Since they're sorted in order, they have low Shannon complexity, which means they don't require an intelligent designer. What would impress me far more is a sequence of pebbles encoding the first 100 digits of pi by virtue of their sizes (0 for the smallest, 9 for the biggest): high Shannon complexity and high Kolmogorov compressibility.vjtorley
January 30, 2012
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Elizabeth, You are confusing the arrangement of things to create meaning with the assignment of meaning to something. In your example the fisherman can tell where they are by the size of the pebbles. But if some other cause-and-effect process deposited recognizable rocks or caused unique erosions along the way they could just as easily assign the same meaning to those. In both your example and this one, neither the pebbles nor the rocks contain meaningful, functional information. That meaning is assigned or that information is created by observing that rocks of a certain size are found at a certain location, or that a certain formation is found at a certain place, and creating that association. Reduced to its simplest form, suggesting that they contain functional information is similar to suggesting that raindrops striking one's face contain functional information regarding the current weather. They don't. They follow natural laws, and intelligent agents assign information to them.ScottAndrews2
January 30, 2012
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In any case, a simple sorting system will do the trick. My favorite example is Chesil Beach, on the south coast of England, which is an 18 mile pebble beach along the length of which the pebbles are beautifully sorted from almost sand at the West end, to boulders at the east. Clearly the sequence of pebble sizes has high Shannon Information (each pebble is of different size and there are a huge number of different sizes) and yet the sequence can be very simply described ("from sand size in the West to boulder size 18 miles to the East"). It is, equally clearly, not intelligently designed. Yet clearly there is some algorithm at work that results in the small pebbles being deposited at one end and large at the other, with such consistency that local tradition says that fishermen landing at night could tell where they were by rolling the pebbles in their palms to estimate the size. So the beach is informative. Why does it not have Complex (high Shannon) Specified (high compressibility) Information (meaningful to lost fishermen at night)? (I'm sure there's an answer, but I'd like to hear it :))Elizabeth Liddle
January 30, 2012
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Hi Kairosfocus, Thank you for your kind comments. I'd like to mention your own articles on the subject of FSCI, for Uncommon Descent, especially these: How to calculate Chi_500, a log-reduced, simplified form of the Dembski Chi-metric for CSI ID Foundations, 11: Borel’s Infinite Monkeys analysis and the significance of the log reduced Chi metric, Chi_500 = I*S – 500vjtorley
January 30, 2012
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Hi Elizabeth, If you'd like a paper where Shapiro says that vertebrates and flowering plants appeared within a single generation, then here's one: http://www.mobilednajournal.com/content/1/1/4 ("Mobile DNA and evolution in the 21st century", in Mobile DNA 2010, 1:4 doi:10.1186/1759-8753-1-4, published 25 January 2010). An excerpt:
Genome doublings have been documented in yeasts [116,117], ciliated protozoa [118] and plants [119]. There is even evidence of a genome tripling at the base of the angiosperm radiation (in a letter to J D Hooker, 22 July 1879, Darwin described the rapid rise and early diversification within the angiosperms as 'an abominable mystery' [120]) [121]. In animals, the most important WGD [whole genome doubling - VJT] events have been found at the base of the vertebrate lineage, where two successive events gave rise first to all vertebrates and then to jawed vertebrates [122]. This 2R double WGD event was originally postulated by Ohno in his 1970 book on the essential role of duplications in evolution [123]. Later in vertebrate evolution, there was another WGD event at the origin of teleost fish [122,124]. Characteristic of transitions marked by WGD events are the rapid formation of a cluster of related species, as in Paramecium [118], or the appearance of major innovations, as with the vertebrate skeleton [125] and jaw [122]. WGD is yet another evolutionary process outside the Darwinist perspective that occurs suddenly (that is, within a single generation) and simultaneously affects multiple phenotypic characters [126]. It is especially significant to note that a genome doubling means that the dispersed coding elements for complex circuits are duplicated and the two duplicate circuits can then undergo independent modifications as distinct entities [127]. (Emphases mine - VJT.)
"Within a single generation." "Outside the Darwinist perspective." "Gave rise first to all vertebrates and then to jawed vertebrates." Convinced? Yeah, I definitely think American high school kids should hear about this guy's views. Plus he has a Ph.D. in genetics.vjtorley
January 30, 2012
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Well, before I answer, can you tell me how you would compute the Kolmogorov Compressibility, of, say, a DNA sequence? The Shannon Entropy of any DNA sequence, will of course, equal approximately 2 bits per nucleotide, so the total Shannon information will equal approximately 2*L where L is the length of the sequence. But how would you estimate the Kolmogorov compressibility?Elizabeth Liddle
January 30, 2012
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Hi Elizabeth, I'm not aware of evidence that such a mechanism naturally tends to generate outcomes that possess high Kolmogorov compressibility as well as high Shannon complexity. Would you care to cite what you consider to be your best examples? (If you're talking about Tierra or Avida, I can't really help you, as I don't know enough about them, and what I've seen online is simply too opaque to convince me to change my mind. Joe's citation above makes me highly suspicious of Avida. I just wish someone could write a 200-line program in Pascal that could do what's claimed for these programs.) What I'd be more interested in seeing from you is a general argument that the mechanisms you describe tend to increase Kolmogorov compressibility as well as Shannon complexity.vjtorley
January 30, 2012
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What is required is self-replication with variance and where that variance is reflected in differential reproductive success of the phenotype.
Still not good enough to do anything. If one family of humans out-reproduces another family, so what? "Look that family has 8 people and this family has 7. Do you know what that means?" "Yes, there are 15 people in those two families."Joe
January 30, 2012
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I'm seriously wondering if that's a transcription error, actually. Or if there's missing context. Either way, I'd want to see something more than a transcript from a Q&A before it went into the school science curriculum :)Elizabeth Liddle
January 30, 2012
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I agree Elizabeth let's try to clear up some of the ambiguity surrounding the word 'random'; I wrote a little piece on 'randomness' a short while back: Blackholes - The neo-Darwinian ‘god of entropic randomness’ which can create all things (at least according to them) Being the helpful guy I am, always trying to help atheists out when I get a chance, I’ve been trying to piece together a experiment that would prove once and for all, for everyone to see, that RANDOM variation plus undirected natural selection can produce functional proteins just as atheists adamantly claim (even though no one has ever seen RANDOM processes do this). Now I just about got the RANDOM part of the experiment down for the atheists! I’ve searched for the maximum source of randomness that I could find in the universe, (since the 'god of randomness' is who atheists adamantly claim for their creator), and I think I’ve found their god for them; First:
Thermodynamics – 3.1 Entropy Excerpt: Entropy – A measure of the amount of randomness or disorder in a system. http://www.saskschools.ca/curr_content/chem30_05/1_energy/energy3_1.htm
Thus, the more entropy a system has the more randomness it will generate for our experiment to find a RANDOM functional protein. And if we ask, ‘what is the maximum source of entropy, i.e. RANDOMNESS, in the universe?’, we find this:
Entropy of the Universe – Hugh Ross – May 2010 Excerpt: Egan and Lineweaver found that supermassive black holes are the largest contributor to the observable universe’s entropy. They showed that these supermassive black holes contribute about 30 times more entropy than what the previous research teams estimated. http://www.reasons.org/entropy-universe “But why was the big bang so precisely organized, whereas the big crunch (or the singularities in black holes) would be expected to be totally chaotic? It would appear that this question can be phrased in terms of the behaviour of the WEYL part of the space-time curvature at space-time singularities. What we appear to find is that there is a constraint WEYL = 0 (or something very like this) at initial space-time singularities-but not at final singularities-and this seems to be what confines the Creator’s choice to this very tiny region of phase space.” Roger Penrose - How Special Was The Big Bang?
Plus for a added bonus for atheists, being the helpful guy that I am, I found that if we find a massive magnetized blackhole we might just start to overcome the homochirality problem, which is a huge problem against finding functional proteins, as well:
Homochirality and Darwin: part 2 – Robert Sheldon – May 2010 Excerpt: With regard to the deniers who think homochirality is not much of a problem, I only ask whether a solution requiring multiple massive magnetized black-hole supernovae doesn’t imply there is at least a small difficulty to overcome? A difficulty, perhaps, that points to the non-random nature of life in the cosmos? http://procrustes.blogtownhall.com/page3
But of course there is the extreme logistics problem with actually transporting the atheists to the massive magnetized blackholes to actually do the experiments, so that they may try to actually RANDOMLY generate a functional protein just as they claim can be done. Not to mention the minor problem of someone trying to survive being stretched into as a piece of spaghetti, by the extreme warping of space-time, near the blackhole.
What Would Happen If You Fell into a Black Hole? - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLMiJQXsmkc
,,Not to mention trying to survive the extremely high temperatures surrounding the event horizon of the black hole:,,
Scientists gear up to take a picture of a black hole - January 2012 Excerpt: "Swirling around the black hole like water circling the drain in a bathtub, the matter compresses and the resulting friction turns it into plasma heated to a billion degrees or more, causing it to 'glow' – and radiate energy that we can detect here on Earth." http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-scientists-gear-picture-black-hole.html
But what the hey, it is just a little sacrifice for ‘science’ right!?! At least atheists will have the maximum source of randomness in the universe to work with in their experiments!!! But there is another problem I probably need to tell atheists about before they pack up and go off to the massive magnetized blackholes in order to prove to the world that their ‘god of randomness’ can create all things,
“Gain in entropy always means loss of information, and nothing more.” Gilbert Newton Lewis – Eminent Chemist “Is there a real connection between entropy in physics and the entropy of information? ….The equations of information theory and the second law are the same, suggesting that the idea of entropy is something fundamental…” Tom Siegfried, Dallas Morning News, 5/14/90 – Quotes attributed to Robert W. Lucky, Ex. Director of Research, AT&T, Bell Laboratories & John A. Wheeler, of Princeton & Univ. of TX, Austin in the article
But what the hey, atheists haven't needed any stinking equations to sell their theory to a gullible public so far have they!?!
Oxford University Admits Darwinism's Shaky Math Foundation - May 2011 Excerpt: However, mathematical population geneticists mainly deny that natural selection leads to optimization of any useful kind. This fifty-year old schism is intellectually damaging in itself, and has prevented improvements in our concept of what fitness is. - On a 2011 Job Description for a Mathematician, at Oxford, to 'fix' the persistent mathematical problems with neo-Darwinism within two years. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/05/oxford_university_admits_darwi046351.html
I even have a inspirational quote for the future experiment of our space traveling atheists;
GILBERT NEWTON LEWIS: AMERICAN CHEMIST (1875-1946) “I have attempted to give you a glimpse…of what there may be of soul in chemistry. But it may have been in vain. Perchance the chemist is already damned and the guardian the blackest. But if the chemist has lost his soul, he will not have lost his courage and as he descends into the inferno, sees the rows of glowing furnaces and sniffs the homey fumes of brimstone, he will call out-: ‘Asmodeus, hand me a test-tube.’”(1) Gilbert Newton Lewis http://www.woodrow.org/teachers/ci/1992/Lewis.html
And I even have a inspirational song for their experiment;
Creed – Six Feet http://www.youtube.com/v/aQ9GrZ3CEyY&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=1
bornagain77
January 30, 2012
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Hi bornagain77, Thank you for your post. It is very interesting to see that science itself is now pointing towards the conclusion that particles have a non-local cause of their existence.vjtorley
January 30, 2012
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Right, well, let me rephrase that (I thought it was clear, but perhaps it isn't): What is required is self-replication with variance and where that variance is reflected in differential reproductive success of the phenotype. Not so succinct, but perhaps less ambiguous.Elizabeth Liddle
January 30, 2012
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"Random" is a truly terrible word in this context! It should be banned! It's an invitation to inadvertent equivocation.Elizabeth Liddle
January 30, 2012
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Sorry, I didn't read to the end of your quote of Shapiro. Do you have a reference to an actual paper where he says this? Oh, and "no big leaps" is not a fundamental Darwinian principle. It's just that given the fundamental Darwinian principle, big leaps would seem unlikely. Evo-devo shows that biggish leaps can happen, though, because small changes in regulatory genes can scale up to big phenotypic changes.Elizabeth Liddle
January 30, 2012
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