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L&FP, 66: String — yes, s-t-r-i-n-g — data structures as key information storage arrays (thus the significance of DNA and mRNA)

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One of the more peculiar objections to the design inference is the strident, often repeated claim that the genetic code is not a code, and that DNA and mRNA are not storing algorithmic, coded information used in protein synthesis. These are tied to the string (yes, s-t-r-i-n-g) data structure, a key foundational array for information storage, transfer and application. So, it seems useful to address the string as a key first principles issue, with the onward point being that strings of course can and do store coded information.

Let us begin with, what a string — yes, s-t-r-i-n-g — is (though that should already be obvious from even the headline):

Wikipedia illustrates a string data structure

Geeks for Geeks: A string is a sequence of characters, often used to represent text. In programming, strings are a common data type and are used for a variety of tasks, such as representing names, addresses, and other types of information.

Wikipedia confesses: In computer programming, a string is traditionally a sequence of characters, either as a literal constant or as some kind of variable. The latter may allow its elements to be mutated and the length changed, or it may be fixed (after creation). A string is generally considered as a data type and is often implemented as an array data structure of bytes (or words) that stores a sequence of elements, typically characters, using some character encoding. String may also denote more general arrays or other sequence (or list) data types and structures . . . . A primary purpose of strings is to store human-readable text, like words and sentences. Strings are used to communicate information from a computer program to the user of the program. A program may also accept string input from its user. Further, strings may store data expressed as characters yet not intended for human reading . . . . Example strings and their purposes . . . Alphabetical data, like “AGATGCCGT” representing nucleic acid sequences of DNA . . .

So, it should not be surprising to see that DNA and RNA can store strings of information-bearing elements:

Where, of course, the genetic code is expressed in such strings. The (standard) code, mRNA form is:

The Genetic code uses three-letter codons to specify the sequence of AA’s in proteins, specifying start/stop, and using six bits per AA

For very simple example, HT Khan Academy:

The basic algorithmic process for protein synthesis [HT Khan, fair use edu]

Of course, the above is the mRNA form, which would be transcribed and edited to cut out introns, and it leaves out onward complexities. For example, we can see how Insulin has two strands of AA’s interconnected through di-sulphide bonds, making up a 51 AA protein:

The 51 aa, double chain protein, human insulin (fair use edu)

The end-product insulin protein is put together from the preproinsulin produced stepwise in the ribosome, by way of a clever alignment that uses a third, “scaffolding,” chain C sequence:

Assembling Insulin (fair use)

Using the code one could in principle back-translate to mRNA, however, in the DNA there are intervening Introns between the Exons expressed in the ribosome, so the human genome sequence is:

The underlying DNA sequence in the human genome (fair use)

So, as usual, we see how sophisticated life is at molecular level. That said, we also see that as a key stage of protein synthesis, as ribosomes, mRNA and tRNA interact (with a complex cast of supporting molecules) AA chains are assembled with start, elongate, stop, executing a code driven algorithm. Where, AmHD defines:

[Algorithm:] A finite set of unambiguous instructions that, given some set of initial conditions, can be performed in a prescribed sequence to achieve a certain goal and that has a recognizable set of end conditions.

Illustrating:

Step by step protein synthesis in action, in the ribosome, based on the sequence of codes in the mRNA control tape (Courtesy, Wikipedia and LadyofHats)

That should be enough to show the unbiased mind that coded algorithms are in the cell, and that DNA and mRNA act as string data structures. However, there are those who have proved resistant to such commonplace summaries or to citations from the sort of panels of experts who write major textbooks in biochemistry. For record, notwithstanding, here are Lehninger and heirs:

A page capture from Lehninger and heirs, Principles of Biochemistry, (fair use)

Lehninger and heirs go on to say, pp. 194 – 5:

Augmented citation from Lehninger and heirs, on mRNA in protein synthesis (fair use)

We may also now observe a Nobel Prize Laureate, Sydney Brenner, in his article, Life’s code script . . . yes, it’s that obvious, published in 2012 in the leading Science Journal, Nature:

[Brenner:] ” . . . The most interesting connection with biology, in my view, is in Turing’s most important paper: ‘On computable numbers with an application to the Entscheidungsproblem’5, published in 1936, when Turing was just 24.

Computable numbers are defined as those whose decimals are calculable by finite means. [–> that is, effectively, by algorithms] Turing introduced what became known as the Turing machine to formalize the computation. The abstract machine is provided with a tape [–> with marks on it], which it scans one square at a time, and it can write, erase or omit symbols. The scanner may alter its mechanical state, and it can ‘remember’ previously read symbols. Essentially, the system is a set of instructions written on the tape, which describes the machine. Turing also defined a universal Turing machine, which can carry out any computation for which an instruction set can be written — this is the origin of the digital computer. [–> there is also, a more powerful oracle machine, capable of one step decisions]

Turing’s ideas were carried further in the 1940s by mathematician and engineer John von Neumann, who conceived of a ‘constructor’ machine capable of assembling another according to a description. A universal constructor with its own description would build a machine like itself. To complete the task, the universal constructor needs to copy its description and insert the copy into the offspring machine. Von Neumann noted that if the copying machine made errors, these ‘mutations’ would provide inheritable changes in the progeny.

Arguably the best examples of Turing’s and von Neumann’s machines are to be found in biology. Nowhere else are there such complicated systems, in which every organism contains an internal description of itself. The concept of the gene as a symbolic representation of the organism — a code script — is a fundamental feature of the living world and must form the kernel of biological theory. [–> note, again, author, context and publisher]

Turing died in 1954, one year after the discovery of the double-helical structure of DNA by James Watson and Francis Crick, but before biology’s subsequent revolution. Neither he nor von Neumann had any direct effect on molecular biology, but their work allows us to discipline our thoughts about machines, both natural and artificial.

Turing invented the stored-program computer, and von Neumann showed that the description is separate from the universal constructor. [–> that ‘description’ of course is encoded] This is not trivial. Physicist Erwin Schrödinger confused the program and the constructor in his 1944 book What is Life?, in which he saw chromosomes as “architect’s plan and builder’s craft in one”. This is wrong. The code script contains only a description of the executive function, not the function itself.

That’s why Yockey adapted Shannon’s architectural diagram for communication systems:

Yockey’s analysis of protein synthesis as a code-based communication process

So, we may freely understand that DNA and associated molecules such as mRNA express string data structures, store coded biological information, that such information as used in protein synthesis expresses algorithms, and that therefore we are dealing with computation and associated computer language in the course of protein synthesis.

We may quote a Wiki confession:

[Wiki confesses:] Since 2001, 40 non-natural amino acids have been added into proteins by creating a unique codon (recoding) and a corresponding transfer-RNA:aminoacyl – tRNA-synthetase pair to encode it with diverse physicochemical and biological properties in order to be used as a tool to exploring protein structure and function or to create novel or enhanced proteins.[22][23]

H. Murakami and M. Sisido extended some codons to have four and five bases. Steven A. Benner [–>another guy] constructed a functional 65th (in vivo) codon.[24]

In 2015 N. Budisa, D. Söll and co-workers reported the full substitution of all 20,899 tryptophan residues (UGG codons) with unnatural thienopyrrole-alanine in the genetic code of the bacterium Escherichia coli.[25]

In 2016 the first stable semisynthetic organism was created. It was a (single cell) bacterium with two synthetic bases (called X and Y). The bases survived cell division.[26][27]

In 2017, researchers in South Korea reported that they had engineered a mouse with an extended genetic code that can produce proteins with unnatural amino acids.[28]

In May 2019, researchers reported the creation of a new “Syn61” strain of the bacterium Escherichia coli. This strain has a fully synthetic genome that is refactored (all overlaps expanded), recoded (removing the use of three out of 64 codons completely), and further modified to remove the now unnecessary tRNAs and release factors. It is fully viable and grows 1.6× slower than its wild-type counterpart “MDS42”

Indeed, the function of DNA as an information storage entity is so well established, that as Wiki also confesses, it has been adapted to general archival storage:

DNA digital data storage is the process of encoding and decoding binary data to and from synthesized strands of DNA.[1][2]

While DNA as a storage medium has enormous potential because of its high storage density, its practical use is currently severely limited because of its high cost and very slow read and write times.[3]

In June 2019, scientists reported that all 16 GB of text from Wikipedia’s English-language version had been encoded into synthetic DNA.[4] In 2021, scientists reported that a custom DNA data writer had been developed that was capable of writing data into DNA at 18 Mbps.[5]
Encoding methods

Countless methods for encoding data in DNA are possible. The optimal methods are those that make economical use of DNA and protect against errors.[6] If the message DNA is intended to be stored for a long period of time, for example, 1,000 years [–> a lot longer than most of our digital storage media will likely last], it is also helpful if the sequence is obviously artificial and the reading frame is easy to identify.[6]

CNet gives details:

the next storage technology might use an approach as old as life on earth: DNA. Startup Catalog announced Friday it’s crammed all of the text of Wikipedia’s English-language version onto the same genetic molecules our own bodies use.

It accomplished the feat with its first DNA writer, a machine that would fit easily in your house if you first got rid of your refrigerator, oven and some counter space. And although it’s not likely to push aside your phone’s flash memory chips anytime soon, the company believes it’s useful already to some customers who need to archive data.

DNA strands are tiny and tricky to manage, but the biological molecules can store other data than the genes that govern how a cell becomes a pea plant or chimpanzee. Catalog uses prefabricated synthetic DNA strands that are shorter than human DNA, but uses a lot more of them so it can store much more data.

Relying on DNA instead of the latest high-tech miniaturization might sound like a step backward. But DNA is compact, chemically stable — and given that it’s the foundation of the Earth’s biology, it’s arguably not as likely to become as obsolete as the spinning magnetized platters of hard drives or CDs that are disappearing today . . .

In short, they used a different encoding and have stored Wikipedia in DNA.

At this point, we need to ask, why is it that we have seen certain objectors from the penumbra of attack sites making strident, unyielding objections to understanding DNA and mRNA as string data structure information storage entities, part of a wider information processing, protein synthesis process in the cell?

The manifest answer is simple and sad: because such things point to design, which is being ideologically locked out at all costs.

So, it is time to recognise a key first fact about DNA and mRNA and let the chips lie where they fly. END

Comments
AF & circle, ID as theory is a research programme, which would be defined by core theses; in other forms, it is stated on core focal research questions, as that scientific research programme which seeks to explore and answer the question as to whether entities, processes etc can and do exhibit reliable signs of cause by intelligently directed configuration. As inference, we note a key regularity:
first we must mark out a matter of inductive reasoning and epistemology. Observed tested, reliable signs such as FSCO/I [= functionally specific, complex organisation and/or associated information, “fun-skee”] beyond 500 – 1,000 bits point to design as cause for cases we have not observed. This is the design INFERENCE.
These are not hard to understand, nor are they unreasonable. Save, to those dedicated to ideologically driven selective hyperskepticism. As a commonplace example, a major metric in telecommunications is signal to noise ratio, which pivots on identifiable differences between signals and noise. Where, those same characteristics obtain for the algorithmic code in the cell that you spent months trying to dismiss. And now we see snide dismissiveness towards engineering. Where it is obviously being forgotten that engineering is applied science, and that engineers therefore have extensive scientific training, involving core and specifically engineering sciences, with of course a fair slice of Mathematics and some economics. The readily accessible answer to the thematic question is, yes, there are several strong signs of design as cause. Some are found in cells, in body plans, and in the physics of the cosmos. Such raises onward, revolutionary questions on the approach we should take to understand the past of origins. It is that challenging of a dominant, deeply flawed and too often domineering school of thought that is the real locus of debates. Meanwhile, we still see a zero concessions policy, here directed against the actual -- but obviously ideologically inconvenient -- scientific consensus that there is indeed algorithmic code in DNA and mRNA. Obviously, for some objectors, evolutionary materialistic scientism and/or fellow travellers comes first, not actual empirically founded evidence. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2023
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AF & Circle, strawman with ad hom. M_r is simply saying, very reasonably, that in real science, claims need to be warranted through empirical observation. There are trillions of examples of FSCO/I that are observed, in every case they come from intelligently directed configuration, which is backed by needle in haystack, blind wandering in a configuration space issues. Your reaction tells us, you have no counter examples but wish to impose Lewontin's a priori evolutionary materialism and/or fellow travellers. That is ideological question begging. And meanwhile, you have been in similarly ideological denial of the well warranted conclusion that there is complex, string data structure, algorithmic code in DNA and mRNA, showing again how ideology is taking priority over evidence. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2023
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From KF's link:
The theory of intelligent design (ID) holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause rather than an undirected process such as natural selection.
That's a mission statement, not a definition.Alan Fox
March 22, 2023
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M_r, I doubt that life ever boiled down to a single, self replicating cell. Just the need for smart gated encapsulation points to a first big problem. For, such a complex entity would be vulnerable and needs to be in a protective environment. Where, smart gating and bilipid layers etc show how complex that is instantly, involving many types of molecule already, and soon, we are looking at metabolic, process-flow networks with materials and energy issues. With of course, von Neuman's kinematic self replicator peeking in. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2023
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Now you people (Darwinists, biologists, microbiologists, archeologists, paleontologists, anthropologists and all the other “-logists”) have to show us ONLY ONE EXAMPLE of such a system where no intelligence was involved.
Classic burden shift. Martin_r makes stuff up and challenges everyone to prove him wrong.Alan Fox
March 22, 2023
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AF & circle, further distractive tangents. As a first step, the Resources Tab, accessible from this and every UD page, for perhaps a decade, has had a page, ID Defined: https://uncommondescent.com/id-defined/ Similarly, almost a year ago, as part of this L%FP series, I discussed the design inference, theory and movement https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lfp-55-defining-clarifying-intelligent-design-as-inference-as-theory-as-a-movement/ Meanwhile, there is the significance of complex algorithmic, symbol using code in DNA and mRNA to be assessed, in the context of a causal circle including tRNA and asociated enzymes, part of a wider metabolic system in a self replicating cell. KFkairosfocus
March 22, 2023
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KF, these metabolic networks ... I would like to understand, how something like that can evolve by random mutations, copying errors, and trial-error process :)))))))))))) Darwinists believe in never ending series of miracles :))))))))))))) PS: I admit, I am not a chemist, but I would like to understand, how the first self-replicating molecule should have worked .... to keep self-replicating, when you don't have these building blocks floating around ... in other words, when you don't have the materials/compounds needed for the self-replication -- moreover, this self-replicating molecule has to be encapsulated in some membrane and sort of isolated from the outside materials ...martin_r
March 22, 2023
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Alan Fox
Let’s see whether you can provide an accurate definition of ID. Can anyone do that?
Intelligent design definition: A system of multiple parts working in concert for a purpose. So simple.. Now you people (Darwinists, biologists, microbiologists, archeologists, paleontologists, anthropologists and all the other "-logists") have to show us ONLY ONE EXAMPLE of such a system where no intelligence was involved. Of course, your example has to be outside biology - because we consider biology designed.martin_r
March 22, 2023
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Querius
A scientist stands before God in the judgment. God asks the scientist, “Didn’t the complexity of life on earth, especially in yourself as a human cause you to consider the Source of this human from mere clay? The scientist responds, “Pshaw, I can make a human from the elements and compounds found in clay. God replies, “Okay show me.” The scientist says, “Sure, give me some clay.” God replies, “No, make your own clay.”
Haha ... a good one! Never heard before. anyway, there is a small bug ... Darwinian scientist in this joke is lying again ... this time directly in God's face. This Darwinian scientist can't make a simplest life form even if given all "the elements and compounds", let alone to assembly a human out of it :))))))))))))))) PS: this joke perfectly illustrates Darwinism.... they can do anything ... in theory :)))))))martin_r
March 22, 2023
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Let’s see whether you can provide an accurate definition of ID.
Can anyone do that? It would certainly be a useful development to have a definition of what "Intelligent Design" is. Can anyone do that?Alan Fox
March 21, 2023
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Critical Rationalist @229,
According to ID, we exhibit the appearance of design. Which exactly the thing that ID is trying to explain. So, I’m at a loss here as to what I’ve forgotten.
It's amazing to me that someone would try to debunk ID without actually understanding ID. All you've done is torch a strawman. So, how about this for a change? Let's see whether you can provide an accurate definition of ID. We can go from there. -QQuerius
March 21, 2023
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A sad state of affairs. The Designer is outside of space and time and creates without using pre-existing matter.
Can you point to this in the supposedly scientific theory of ID? Last time I checked, ID says nothing about its designer operating outside space and time. Rather, what you seem to be describing is creationism.critical rationalist
March 21, 2023
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Martin_r @223,
CR, replication requires materials and components, properly arranged, oriented and coupled; You know what any replication requires? THE MATERIALS in the first place. Look how many chemical building blocks are freely floating in cytoplasm — just waiting to be used for e.g. replication or similar molecular assembly … All these needful materials ARE ALWAYS AVAILABLE like a miracle :)))))))
Well said! Reminds me of a joke. A scientist stands before God in the judgment. God asks the scientist, "Didn't the complexity of life on earth, especially in yourself as a human cause you to consider the Source of this human from mere clay? The scientist responds, "Pshaw, I can make a human from the elements and compounds found in clay. God replies, "Okay show me." The scientist says, "Sure, give me some clay." God replies, "No, make your own clay." -QQuerius
March 21, 2023
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CR at 229, A sad state of affairs. The Designer is outside of space and time and creates without using pre-existing matter. Again, He is reduced to a man. A very smart man but with capabilities far beyond any man. The Universe and Earth was designed for human life. Viewed from your perspective, things happen spontaneously. How is that possible? Without internal instructions, it is not possible.relatd
March 21, 2023
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CR, the circle is yours. You forget that we are designers and observers.
I have? According to ID, we exhibit the appearance of design. Which exactly the thing that ID is trying to explain. So, I'm at a loss here as to what I've forgotten.
Patterns such as complex fine tuning, functionally specific complex organisation and associated information, applications of linguistic ability. This last points to cases such as composition of extensive original speech or text that reduces that to writing, such as your own.
First, the claim that "the distant past will resemble the past" is just a reformation of the flawed argument that "the future will resemble the past." The future is unlike the past in many ways, which I've addressed earlier in this thread. Second, my own writing refers to other living subjects, designed things, explanatory concepts, etc. The works of Shakespeare refers to human beings, concepts and emotions such as love, loss, betrayal, etc. This reflects explanatory knowledge, which is unique to people. So, only people would be able to create them. IOW, comparing the knowledge in the genomes of living things, which isn't explanatory, to Shakespeare is a highly flawed argument. But, this is a distraction, as your response does not address the criticism presented. Probability claims of alternative theories, which are based of a dubious calculus at best, does not pull the plank out of the ID's eye. Namely that ID's designer would, according to ID, itself exhibit the appearance of design.
PPS: Can you bring yourself to acknowledge that complex, algorithmic code has been identified in the cell? Why or why not?
First, 2+2=4 can be reformulated as 2*2=4. Right? In the same sense, all that complex, algorithmic code can be reformulated into constructor theoretic terms: which physical tasks are possible, which physical tasks are impossible and why. See section 3.2 above. Constructor theory is the generalization / unification of catalysts, information and even quantum computation. It allows us to bring them into fundamental physics. Second, those interactions and complexity reflects being well adapted to serve a purpose. It's a more fundamental description of the vague "Functionally Specified Information", etc. To quote Paley....
If the different parts had been differently shaped from what they are, of a different size from what they are, or placed after any other manner, or in any other order, than that in which they are placed, either no motion at all would have been carried on in the machine, or none which would have answered the use that is now served by it.
What Paley just described, fundamentally, reflects being well adapted to serve a purpose. So, my question is, where was all of those algorithms, etc. before some designer put them in living things? Was it in the designer? If so, it too would have the very same attributes ID is trying to explain in living things. It too would have the appearance of design. How can being well adapted to serve a purpose be the explanation for being well adapted to serve a purpose? If not, then where was it? How did it end up in living things? Did that knowledge just "appear" when the designer created them? But that would reflect spontaneous generation, would it not? At which point it's unclear what we need ID's designer for, as apparently all of that complexity can appear fully formed, spontaneously.critical rationalist
March 21, 2023
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CR, replication requires materials and components, properly arranged, oriented and coupled; requisites of configuration based function. That has to come from somewhere, by adequate cause, so no it is not merely copying a blueprint (passive information) but replication of the means by which a self-sustaining, self replicating entity can proceed with operating now and preparing the next generation.
As von Neumann pointed out, replication cannot merely copy the cell itself to be high-fidelity. If it did, there would be an error catastrophe, as all of the mutations of the cell would be copied. Also error correction must be limited to the blueprint, instead of trying to correct errors across the entire cell, before replication. The scope of the latter would be exponentially greater than applying error correction to the blueprint. Specifically the blueprint is in a format where the information can be corrected, instead of the expressed outcome. From this paper on the constructor theory of life....
3.2 The logic of self-reproduction I shall now apply the results of section 3.1 to self-reproduction, to conclude that no-design laws permit an accurate self-reproducer, provided that it op- erates via what I call, adapting Dawkins’ terminology [7], the replicator- vehicle logic. A self-reproducer S (of the kind (2)) is a constructor for its own construction, from generic resources only. From the argument in 3.1 it follows that for S to be a good approximation to a constructor for another S, it must consist of: a modular replicator, R = (r1,r2,...,rn), instantiating the recipe for S (the elementary units ri have attributes in an information variable ?, corresponding to instructions); a programmable constructor, the vehicle V , executing the recipe blindly, i.e., implementing non-specific sub-tasks. The recipe instantiated by the replicator R must contain all the knowledge about how to construct S, specifying a procedure for its construction. Note, however, that the recipe is in one sense incomplete: as remarked in section 3.1, the recipe is not required to include instructions for the elementary tasks, which occur spontaneously in nature. These are indeed relied upon during actual cell development - they constitute epigenetics and environmental context. As remarked by George C. Williams, “Organisms, wherever possible, delegate jobs to useful spontaneous processes, much as a builder may temporarily let gravity hold things in place and let the wind disperse paint fumes”, [29]. Under no-design laws, maintenance and error-correction are necessary for a high and improvable accuracy to be achieved; and in self-reproduction, crucially, it must be S only that brings about the new instance of S. Therefore, since the maintenance cannot be performed by the laws of physics either, because of the no-design conditions, it must be executed by S. As in the general case of section 3.1, maintenance must be achieved via copying the recipe and constructing the vehicle V. These are enacted, respectively, by two sub-constructors in the vehicle, C and B, which implement the replicator-vehicle logic that von Neumann discovered, [15]. In the construction phase B executes R to construct a new vehicle V : N =? (V,W). In bacteria B includes the mechanisms for constructing the daughter cell, such as the ribosome which uses DNA instructions (translated into RNA) to construct proteins. Blind error-correction is possible via checks on the sub-tasks of the recipe; however, construction errors are not propagated, because the new vehicle is the result of executing the recipe in the replicator, not a copy of the former vehicle. In the copy phase, the blind replication of R is performed by C, a copier of the information variable ?: C This happens by replicating the configuration of R blindly, one elementary unit at a time. It follows that C is a universal copier for the set of replicators consisting of elementary units drawn from ? (a property called heredity [32]). Error-correction can happen blindly too, for instance via mismatch-repair. In bacteria this phase is DNA replication and C includes all the relevant enzymes in the cell. (10) For the two phases to perform maintenance, the recipe for the vehicle V , instantiated in the replicator R, must be copied in the copy-phase. This requires the elementary instructions of the recipe to be (sets of) the elementary units ri of the replicator. In bacteria they are the codons - triplets of the elementary units of the replicator (the nucleotides), coding for the building blocks of proteins (aminoacids). The replication of each sub-unit ri constitutes a measurement of which at- tribute ri holds, followed by constructing a new instance of it. Since the replicator R must contain all the knowledge about S, the attributes in ?, of which R is made, must be generic resources, so as to require no recipe (other than R) to be constructed from generic resources. I call a modular replicator such as R whose subunits are made of generic resources a template replicator. A DNA strand is one: the information variable ? is the set of nucleotides - they are simple enough to have been naturally occurring in pre-biological environments. (10)I do not model details irrelevant to the self-reproduction logic (e.g. DNA semi- conservative replication). 16 B[R] (R,N) =? (R,R,W). (3) We thus see that the two maintenance phases achieve self-reproduction, as they amount to bringing about a new R, by copying the former R, and a new V , by construction - controlled by R. Thus, self-reproduction is stable precisely because copying and construction automatically execute the maintenance of S, by replicating the recipe and re-constructing the vehicle before the former instance of S wears out; and they permit error-correction. For arbitrarily high accuracy, both phases implement elementary sub-recipes that are non-specific to self-reproducers, and do not bear design. Therefore arbitrarily accurate self-reproduction is permitted by no-design laws, provided that the latter allow replicators - i.e., information media. Rewriting the copy phase, (3), as N =? (R,W), to highlight that C executes R, we see that a template replicator has a special property. It instantiates a recipe for its own construction from generic resources only (C does not need to contain any additional recipe to construct the subunits of R: it blindly copies the pattern, subunit by subunit; and the units are generic resources). This is unique to template replicators. No other object could be a recipe for the construction of itself to a high accuracy. For the argument in section 3.1 implies that an instance (or a blueprint) of an object is not, in general, a recipe for its construction from generic substrates. A 3-D raster-scanner provided with an instance of, say, a bacterium could not re-produce it accurately from generic substrates only: without a recipe containing the knowledge about the bacterium’s structure, there would be no criterion for error-correction, resulting in a bound on the achievable accuracy. Likewise, an entire organism could not self-reproduce to a high accuracy via self-copying: without the recipe informing error-correction, an “error catastrophe” [30] would occur. This also provides a unifying descriptions of the two phases: the replicator R is a recipe for another instance of itself, when instructing C; a recipe for the construction of another vehicle, when instructing B. Overall, it instantiates the full recipe for S - see the figure 3.2. R is an active, germ line replicator [7], because it instantiates all the knowledge necessary to achieve its own replication. It is a consequence of the above argument that high-fidelity replication is possible under no-design laws too, provided that there is a vehicle that performs blind copying and error-correction. [diagram of construction tasks] Figure 2: The logic of self-reproduction An accurate self-reproducer (top of the figure) consists of the replicator R (blue outline) and the vehicle V (green outline) - which contains the copier C and the constructor B. In the copy phase C copies the replicator R - C[R] (red outline) acts as a constructor. In the construction phase B executes the recipe in R to build a vehicle from generic resources N - B[R] (red outline) acts as a constructor. Finally (bottom) the copy of R and the newly constructed vehicle form the offspring. Moreover, for the replicator to preserve its ability to be an accurate replicator across generations, its vehicle must be reproduced too - together, they must constitute a self-reproducer. Hence self-reproduction is essential to high-fidelity replication under no-design laws.
critical rationalist
March 21, 2023
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CR, the circle is yours. You forget that we are designers and observers. So we know designers are possible and that it often produces recognisable patterns. Patterns such as complex fine tuning, functionally specific complex organisation and associated information, applications of linguistic ability. This last points to cases such as composition of extensive original speech or text that reduces that to writing, such as your own. These are reliable signs, tested against observation. Paley's time keeping self replicating watch is a thought exercise extension, one that in key parts anticipated von Neumann's kinematic self replicator. Now, too, we know that design is an act of intelligence, in relevant part, intelligently directed configuration. So, all we need to accept is that intelligence with that capability is real, and that acts of design may and often do, reflect reliable signs of design. Relevant cases in the natural world include the fine tuned physics of the cosmos or aspects of it, the living cell, body plans, discovery of complex coded algorithmic information in the cell. On the strength of such, we have every epistemic right to infer design on such signs, then to ask about onward issues. Where, as we are only using that inductive, abductive form, inference to the best explanation reasoning that is a good slice of our reasoning, we have no need to be cowed by attempts to pretend that such reasoning should not be trusted. In fact, such attempts become self referential and incoherent, very quickly, as we ask on what basis we claim knowledge of our world. KF PS, Dallas Willard and heirs provide a good dose of corrective regarding knowledge:
To have knowledge in the dispositional sense—where you know things you are not necessarily thinking about at the time—is to be able to represent something as it is on an adequate basis of thought or experience, not to exclude communications from qualified sources (“authority”). This is the “knowledge” of ordinary life, and it is what you expect of your electrician, auto mechanic, math teacher, and physician. Knowledge is not rare, and it is not esoteric . . . no satisfactory general description of “an adequate basis of thought or experience” has ever been achieved. We are nevertheless able to determine in many specific types of cases that such a basis is or is not present [p.19] . . . . Knowledge, but not mere belief or feeling, generally confers the right to act and to direct action, or even to form and supervise policy. [p. 20] In any area of human activity, knowledge brings certain advantages. Special considerations aside, knowledge authorizes one to act, to direct action, to develop and supervise policy, and to teach. It does so because, as everyone assumes, it enables us to deal more successfully with reality: with what we can count on, have to deal with, or are apt to have bruising encounters with. Knowledge involves assured [--> warranted, credible] truth, and truth in our representations and beliefs is very like accuracy in the sighting mechanism on a gun. If the mechanism is accurately aligned—is “true,” it enables those who use it with care to hit an intended target. [p. 4, Dallas Willard & Literary Heirs, The Disappearance of Moral Knowledge, Routledge|Taylor& Francis Group, 2018. ]
PPS: Can you bring yourself to acknowledge that complex, algorithmic code has been identified in the cell? Why or why not? (At this stage, litmus test. Which brings to bear the related question, when litmus paper goes red, do we have an epistemic right to infer on such a sign, acid? Why or why not? Extending, why do we accept the indications of a pH Meter or a Digital Caliper, or a speedometer, or a coincidence artillery range finder?)kairosfocus
March 21, 2023
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@KF It's unclear how you've managed to create a probability calculus. For example, you're probably assumed that human beings were intentional outcome, which would significantly affect any vague calculation you might have come up with. But, this doesn't address the argument I'm presenting. Paley's argument is, the watch is well adapted to serve the purpose. Specifically, that of telling time. If you vary it, it will not serve that purpose nearly as well. It's a rare configuration of matter. This is what it means to have the appearance of design. You could use a rock to tell time, by using it as a sun dial, but it's not well adapted for that purpose. The knowledge of how to tell time is in us, not the rock. Right? ID's designer would itself be well adapted to serve a purpose: designing organisms. It too would have the appearance of design, which is exactly the thing ID is trying to explain via, well, a designer. IOW, ID is trying to explain being well adapted to serve a purpose with being well adapted to serve a purpose. This leaves us with the same problem we started out with. This is like stirring the food around on your plate, then claiming to have ate it. Yet it's still right there staring you in the face.critical rationalist
March 21, 2023
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CR: IOW, Paley’s big contribution here is to describe the appearance of design. Namely, something has the appearance of design when it is well adapted to serve a purpose. If it was less well adapted, it wouldn’t serve that purpose nearly as well. The watch is a hard to vary configuration of matter. You can’t modify it without reducing its ability to serve that purpose.
To serve a person’s purpose of knowing the time.
First, if I didn't know any better, you seem to be suggesting the appearance of design can only be attributed to something unless it is known, at the outset, to have a purpose in mind by whatever designed it? But whether people were designed, is the very thing that's in question. So, apparently we cannot attribute the appearance of design to living things? IOW, you seem to be suggesting that until the first person stumbled upon something and devised some use for it, that something didn't the appearance of design. At which point it suddenly gained that attribute? More relevant to Paley's essay, we can compare a watch, which is well adapted to serve the purpose of telling time, and a stone, which a person can use as a sundial. The knowledge of how to tell time is embodied in the watch itself. It is a rare, hard to vary configuration of matter. However, in the case of the rock, the knowledge of how to use it to tell time is within us. The rock is not well adapted to serve the purpose of telling time as the role of casting a shadow can be performed by a wide variety of rocks, or even thinks that are non-rocks, like sticks, plants, etc. living things are vastly more like watches, not stones.
There is no purpose without a person.
Indeed. The very idea that something serves a purpose reflects an explanation. And only people can create explanatory knowledge. So, yes. There is no purpose without people. For example, plants cannot conceive of problems, like we can. We are universal explainers. This includes the ideas that plants need energy, that photosynthesis serves the purpose of solving that problem for plants, etc. That reflects a long chain of hard to vary explanations, and only people can create explanatory knowledge.
If so, tell me whose purpose you are talking about.
In the context of the appearance of design, "serves a purpose" is referring to something that could serve a designer's purpose, should someone intend it to. You could say , it has the appearance of having been designed to serve a purpose. In the case of photosynthesis, it cannot serve a purpose to plants because plants cannot create explanatory knowledge. Yet, I'm guessing you do not think photosynthesis did not have the appearance of design until we discovered it, came up with some use for it, like as an alternative form of generating energy using algae, etc. Right? The appearance of design refers to the attribute of solving a problem that could have been intentionally targeted to solve.
A cat’s eye has no function, has nothing to serve, and has no purpose if there is no cat.
A cat's eye solves a problem for a cat, even though a cat cannot conceive of problems like we can. It's possible that, in the future, we could stitch the genes of a cat into our DNA so we could see much better at night. Furthermore, a cat's eye represents a long chain of hard to vary explanations. This includes the use of rods, cones, optic nerves, etc. It works on the same principles of human eyes, such as geometry, optics, electromagnetism, etc. So, it's unclear why a cat's eye wouldn't detect light if it was kept in a nutrient bath and exposed to photons. Assuming we do not destroy ourselves first, decide to stop looking for explanations, etc. we will discover how to perform eye transplants in human beings. And with the right knowledge we could adopt a cat's eye to be used as a replacement, not unlike how kidney, livers and even lungs are becoming viable transplant sources for human beings.
CR: As such, would that not imply ID’s designer would, itself, exhibit the appearance of design? ORI: You seem to think that a designed object and the designer of the object fall into the same category. They do not.
I made an argument that they did. Your argument just said I was wrong without actually making a counter argument. Specifically, they would both have the appearance of design, as opposed to both being a human being, instead of an alien, or breathing air, or being a specific age, etc. All of those differences are, well, actually different categories. But they are not relevant to the argument I'm presenting.
Perhaps you mean functional specified organization because knowledge does not exist distinct from consciousness (the knower).
Ohh.. That's right. I think we agreed to call it CTKnowldge? Words are shortcuts for ideas. And despite not disagreeing with the more fundamental reformulation, you seem to object on the grounds of semantics. But, as long as we know we're talking about information that plays a causal role in being retained when embedded in a storage medium, it doesn't really matter to me. So, I'll rephrase the question so it's more to your liking... Where was that CTKnowledge, KF was referring to, before it was placed in living things by ID’s designer?critical rationalist
March 21, 2023
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M_r, the metabolic network dwarfs a petroleum refinery. KFkairosfocus
March 21, 2023
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KF @222
CR, replication requires materials and components, properly arranged, oriented and coupled;
You know what any replication requires? THE MATERIALS in the first place. Look how many chemical building blogs are freely floating in cytoplasm -- just waiting to be used for e.g. replication or similar molecular assembly ... All these needful materials ARE ALWAYS AVAILABLE like a miracle :)))))))martin_r
March 21, 2023
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CR, replication requires materials and components, properly arranged, oriented and coupled; requisites of configuration based function. That has to come from somewhere, by adequate cause, so no it is not merely copying a blueprint (passive information) but replication of the means by which a self-sustaining, self replicating entity can proceed with operating now and preparing the next generation. But as Paley highlighted, we have to explain the origin of the contrivance, where beyond 500 - 1.000 bits, blind watchmaker becomes utterly implausible. Adequate, empirically grounded cause is required and just so stories and handwaving over earth is a one point sample do not cut it, nor does success filtered lucky noise. As for mutations, with exceedingly complex systems, accidental changes are overwhelmingly likely to be either trivial or deleterious. In any case, we are back at the recorded blueprint, which in context is of course based on strings and information recorded in a description language of some form. Which means, the constructor must have a machine language. What is the empirically grounded source of linguistic phenomena? Are we putting up just so stories, not empirically testable inferences? KFkairosfocus
March 20, 2023
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Martin_r @202,
This is typical Darwinian. They call things machines, but they don’t mean machines. They call things engineering, but they don’t mean engineering. They call things design, but they don’t mean design. They call things codes, but they don’t mean literal codes … :))))))) It is like in a madhouse.
Haha, so true! Jerry @212,
You have stumbled on the basis for ID.
Yep, Ford Prefect nailed it. But ID is much LESS than any assertion about God. All ID suggests is that it’s far more pragmatic and dependable to investigate a poorly understood biological structure, feature, or function AS IF it were designed rather than presuming it must be random junk (“junk” DNA) or useless vestiges of evolution (“vestigial” organs). -QQuerius
March 20, 2023
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What you are missing is any evidence from other than the Earth as we know it.
I read the article. It is irrelevant to anything I said. Based on what we know if life had a natural origin, life had to evolve from chemical compounds probably using thousands of steps, each step being stable.jerry
March 20, 2023
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@KF, An accurate self replicator requires a blueprint, as opposed to replicating the organism itself, which is the replicator vehicle. If the vehicle itself was replicated, this would result in an error catastrophe, as all of the damage to the cell would be copied as well. The blueprint is first copied, then the cell divides. And, while copying is high-fidelity, it is still prone to errors. So there must be a means in which errors can be repaired in the blueprint. IOW, the knowledge in play is in living things, not some external designer. Nor is it maintained by an intervening designer. That’s the thing that needs to be explained. What is the origin of that knowledge according to ID?critical rationalist
March 20, 2023
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CR @217
Ori: The watch is well adapted to serve the purpose of a person.
CR: The watch is well adapted to serve the purpose of keeping time
To serve a person’s purpose of knowing the time. There is no purpose without a person.
Ori: You say that the designer is also well-adapted to serve a purpose. What purpose and whose purpose would that be?
CR: You’re the one claiming ID’s designer, well, designed life on earth. That would reflect serving a purpose, right?
If so, tell me whose purpose you are talking about. A cat’s eye has no function, has nothing to serve, and has no purpose if there is no cat.
CR: As such, would that not imply ID’s designer would, itself, exhibit the appearance of design?
You seem to think that a designed object and the designer of the object fall into the same category. They do not.
Where was that knowledge before it was placed in living things by ID’s designer?
Perhaps you mean functional specified organization because knowledge does not exist distinct from consciousness (the knower). “Function”, “purpose”, and “service” are also terms that require a specific context.Origenes
March 20, 2023
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The watch is well adapted to serve the purpose of a person.
The watch is well adapted to serve the purpose of keeping time.
You say that the designer is also well-adapted to serve a purpose. What purpose and whose purpose would that be?
You’re the one claiming ID’s designer, well, designed life on earth. That would reflect serving a purpose, right? As such, would that not imply ID’s designer would, itself, exhibit the appearance of design? If not, why? To rephrase, can ID’s designer be significantly modified without impacting its ability to design living things? If so, then how does it achieve its purpose - designing organisms? To start, there’s all that knowledge KF keeps referring to. How could ID’s designer have been said to design life if it did not possess that knowledge, at the outset? IOW, it too would be, well adapted to design organisms. If not, it’s unclear what it means to say it designed life on earth. In what sense? And ID would still leave the of the origin of the knowledge in living thinks unaccounted for. Where was that knowledge before it was placed in living things by ID’s designer?critical rationalist
March 20, 2023
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Jerry:
ID is based on the fine tuning of the universe so OOL and Evolution are minor things for the creator of the universe to accomplish. It then asks what would be the purpose to tinker with the original creation in probably a countless number of ways?
What you are missing is any evidence from other than the Earth as we know it. What we need is a second data point. That should be available in a few years now if all goes to plan. http://theskepticalzone.com/wp/abiogenesis-the-second-data-point/Alan Fox
March 20, 2023
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CR, Paley pretty well anticipated von Neumann's kinematic self replicator of 1948, in 1802. His cam bar idea was a stored program technique. KFkairosfocus
March 20, 2023
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CR
his designer would itself be a complicated entity that itself is well adapted to serve a purpose.
The watch is well adapted to serve the purpose of a person. You say that the designer is also well-adapted to serve a purpose. What purpose and whose purpose would that be?Origenes
March 20, 2023
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