Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

L&FP42: is knowledge warranted, credibly true (so, reliable) belief?

Categories
Defending our Civilization
Epistemology
Logic and Reason
Share
Facebook
Twitter/X
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

It’s time to start delivering on a promise to address “warrant, knowledge, logic and first duties of reason as a cluster,” even at risk of being thought pedantic. Our civilisation is going through a crisis of confidence, down to the roots. If it is to be restored, that is where we have to start, and in the face of rampant hyperskepticism, relativism, subjectivism, emotivism, outright nihilism and irrationality, we need to have confidence regarding knowledge.

Doing my penance, I suppose: these are key issues and so here I stand, in good conscience, I can do no other, God help me.

For a start, from the days of Plato, knowledge has classically been defined as “justified, true belief.” However, in 1963, the late Mr Gettier put the cat in among the pigeons, with Gettier counter-examples; which have since been multiplied. In effect, there are circumstances (and yes, sometimes seemingly contrived, but these are instructive thought exercises) in which someone or a circle may be justified to hold a belief but on taking a wider view such cannot reasonably be held to be a case of knowledge.

As a typical thought exercise, consider a circle of soldiers and sailors on some remote Pacific island, who are eagerly awaiting a tape of a championship match sent out by the usual morale units. They get it, play it and rejoice that team A has won over team B (and the few who thought otherwise have to cough up on their bets to the contrary). Unbeknownst to them, through clerical error, it was last year’s match, which had the same A vs B match-up and more or less the same outcome. They are justified — have a right — to believe, what they believe is so, but somehow the two fail to connect leading to accidental, not reliable arrival at truth.

Knowledge must be built of sterner stuff.

Ever since, epistemology as a discipline, has struggled to rebuild a solid consensus on what knowledge is.

Plantinga weighed in with a multi-volume study, championing warrant, which(as we just noted) is at first defined by bill of requisites. That is, we start with what it must do. So, warrant — this builds on the dictionary/legal/commercial sense of a reliable guarantee of performance “as advertised” — will be whatever reliably converts beliefs we have a right to into knowledge.

The challenge being, to fill in the blank, “Warrant is: __________ .”

Plantinga then summarises, in his third volume:

The question is as old as Plato’s Theaetetus: what is it that distinguishes knowledge from mere true belief? What further quality or quantity must a true belief have, if it is to constitute knowledge? This is one of the main questions of epistemology. (No doubt that is why it is called ‘theory of knowledge’.) Along with nearly all subsequent thinkers, Plato takes it for granted that knowledge is at least true belief: you know a proposition p only if you believe it, and only if it is true. [–> I would soften to credibly, true as we often use knowledge in that softer, defeat-able sense cf Science] But Plato goes on to point out that true belief, while necessary for knowledge, is clearly not sufficient: it is entirely possible to believe something that is true without knowing it . . .

[Skipping over internalism vs externalism, Gettier, blue vs grue or bleen etc etc] Suppose we use the term ‘warrant’ to denote that further quality or quantity (perhaps it comes in degrees), whatever precisely it may be, enough of which distinguishes knowledge from mere true belief. Then our question (the subject of W[arrant and] P[roper] F[unction]): what is warrant?

My suggestion (WPF, chapters 1 and 2) begins with the idea that a belief has warrant only if it is produced by cognitive faculties that are functioning properly, subject to no disorder or dysfunction—construed as including absence of impedance as well as pathology. The notion of proper function is fundamental to our central ways of thinking about knowledge. But that notion is inextricably bound with another: that of a design plan.37

Human beings and their organs are so constructed that there is a way they should work, a way they are supposed to work, a way they work when they work right; this is the way they work when there is no malfunction . . . We needn’t initially take the notions of design plan and way in which a thing is supposed to work to entail conscious design or purpose [–> design, often is naturally evident, e.g. eyes are to see and ears to hear, both, reasonably accurately] . . .

Accordingly, the first element in our conception of warrant (so I say) is that a belief has warrant for someone only if her faculties are functioning properly, are subject to no dysfunction, in producing that belief.39 But that’s not enough.

Many systems of your body, obviously, are designed to work in a certain kind of environment . . . . this is still not enough. It is clearly possible that a belief be produced by cognitive faculties that are functioning properly in an environment for which they were designed, but nonetheless lack warrant; the above two conditions are not sufficient. We think that the purpose or function of our belief-producing faculties is to furnish us with true (or verisimilitudinous) belief. As we saw above in connection with the F&M complaint [= Freud and Marx], however, it is clearly possible that the purpose or function of some belief-producing faculties or mechanisms is the production of beliefs with some other virtue—perhaps that of enabling us to get along in this cold, cruel, threatening world, or of enabling us to survive a dangerous situation or a life-threatening disease.

So we must add that the belief in question is produced by cognitive faculties such that the purpose of those faculties is that of producing true belief.

More exactly, we must add that the portion of the design plan governing the production of the belief in question is aimed at the production of true belief (rather than survival, or psychological comfort, or the possibility of loyalty, or something else) . . . .

[W]hat must be added is that the design plan in question is a good one, one that is successfully aimed at truth, one such that there is a high (objective) probability that a belief produced according to that plan will be true (or nearly true). Put in a nutshell, then, a belief has warrant for a person S only if that belief is produced in S by cognitive faculties functioning properly (subject to no dysfunction) in a cognitive environment [both macro and micro . . . ] that is appropriate for S’s kind of cognitive faculties, according to a design plan that is successfully aimed at truth. We must add, furthermore, that when a belief meets these conditions and does enjoy warrant, the degree of warrant it enjoys depends on the strength of the belief, the firmness with which S holds it. This is intended as an account of the central core of our concept of warrant; there is a penumbral area surrounding the central core where there are many analogical extensions of that central core; and beyond the penumbral area, still another belt of vagueness and imprecision, a host of possible cases and circumstances where there is really no answer to the question whether a given case is or isn’t a case of warrant.41 [Warranted Christian Belief (NY/Oxford: OUP, 2000), pp 153 ff. See onward, Warrant, the Current Debate and Warrant and Proper Function; also, by Plantinga.]

So, we may profitably distinguish [a] Plantinga’s specification (bill of requisites) for warrant and [b] his theory of warrant. The latter, being (for the hard core):

a belief has warrant for a person S only if that belief is produced in S by cognitive faculties functioning properly (subject to no dysfunction) in a cognitive environment [both macro and micro . . . ] that is appropriate for S’s kind of cognitive faculties, according to a design plan that is successfully aimed at truth.

Obviously, warrant comes in degrees, which is just what we need to have. Certain things are known to utterly unchangeable certainty, others are to moral certainty, others for good reason are held to be reasonably reliable though not certain enough to trust when the stakes are high, other things are in doubt as to whether they are knowledge, some things outright fail any responsible test.

That’s why I have taken up and commend a modified form, recognising that what we think is credibly, reliably true today may oftentimes be corrected for cause tomorrow. (Back in High School Chemistry class, I used to imagine a courier arriving at the door to deliver the latest updates to our teacher.)

Yes, I accept that many knowledge claims are defeat-able, so open-ended and provisional.

Indeed, that is part of what distinguishes the prudence and fair-mindedness of sober knowledge claims hard won and held or even stoutly defended in the face of uncertainty and challenge from the false certitude of blind ideologies. Especially, where deductive logical schemes can have no stronger warrant than their underlying axioms and assumptions and where inductive warrant provides support, not utterly certain, incorrigible, absolute demonstration.

That said, we must recognise that some few things are self-evident, e.g.:

While self-evident truths cannot amount to enough to build a worldview, they can provide plumb line tests relevant to the reliability of warrant for what we accept as knowledge:

Such, of course, bring to the fore Ciceronian first duties of reason:

Marcus [in de Legibus, introductory remarks, C1 BC, being Cicero himself]: . . . we shall have to explain the true nature of moral justice, which is congenial and correspondent with the true nature of man [–> we are seeing the root vision of natural law, coeval with our humanity] . . . . “Law (say [“many learned men”]) is the highest reason, implanted in nature, which prescribes those things which ought to be done, and forbids the contrary” . . . . They therefore conceive that the voice of conscience is a law, that moral prudence is a law [–> a key remark] , whose operation is to urge us to good actions, and restrain us from evil ones . . . . the origin of justice is to be sought in the divine law of eternal and immutable morality. This indeed is the true energy of nature, the very soul and essence of wisdom, the test of virtue and vice.

We may readily expand such first duties of reason: to truth, to right reason, to prudence, to sound conscience, to neighbour, so also to fairness and justice. Where, it may readily be seen that the would-be objector invariably appeals to the said duties. Does s/he object, false, or doubtfully so, or errors of reason, or failure to warrant, or unfairness or the like, alike, s/he appeals to the very same duties, collapsing in self-referentiality. So, instead, let us acknowledge that these are inescapable, true, self-evident.

It may help, too to bring out first principles of right reason, such as:

Laws of logic in action as glorified common-sense first principles of right reason

Expanding as a first list:

Such enable us to better use our senses and faculties to build knowledge. END

U/D May 16, regarding the Overton window, first, just an outline:

Next, as applied:

Backgrounder, on the political spectrum:

Comments
This totally boring discussion. A position where emotions are generally disregarded as being wrong, or evil, has no chance of being right. Why even start to argue in favor of that? What would be the point of any morality without emotions? KF you are just using the materialist / atheist idea of subjectivity and emotions, in order to throw emotions and subjectivity out. In the proper and creationist understanding of emotions, emotions are spiritual, meaning they are inherently subjective, meaning they can only be identified with a chosen opinion. And with any choice, you can attach a normative to it. So when I say, Jack is a loving person, or, Jack is a coward, then one can morally challenge that, that I should not have said that. It can be challenged, because I chose the opinions. So you just have to fit subjectivity / emotions in somewhere in your conceptual scheme. Otherwise it is not even worth arguing about.mohammadnursyamsu
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
06:23 AM
6
06
23
AM
PST
WJM In creationism the human imagination is in the creation category, not the creator category. Fantasy figures like leprechauns, or accurate representations of what is in the universe in the imagination, are all just creations. It is just as well a matter of fact what is in in someone's imagination, as what is in the universe proper. You fail to really make the categorical distinction between subjective and objective. On creationist terms, you are really only affirming objective things, and ommitting the subjective things.mohammadnursyamsu
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
06:13 AM
6
06
13
AM
PST
I don’t need diagrams, references to ancient philosophers or a wall of text to make my case for all choices being preferential in nature
The Murray Bible, titled
A=A
followed by his sequel titled
2+2 = 4
Each is 500 pages long with 499 pages of each blank. Amazing writer. No wonder he’s so well published. But one question: why the 300,000+ words of gibberish you published here? When you are obviously so clear a thinker as the titles above indicate. Last question: when does your magnum opus “I Exist” come out?jerry
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
05:59 AM
5
05
59
AM
PST
You see, KF, I don't need diagrams, references to ancient philosophers or a wall of text to make my case for all choices being preferential in nature, or the fact that all choices are about managing an overall, preferential balance between or including both direct and abstract enjoyments. I have made that argument, simple, easy to understand, in terms everyone can understand. IMO, once one sees it, it is startlingly obvious to the point of recognizing a valid tautology. All moralities can be boiled down to a simple, universal statement: we make preferential decisions to manage our direct and abstract enjoyments, seeking the most, or broadest, or deepest, or most comprehensive state of enjoyment, be that for the duration of our life here, and/or for some enjoyable afterlife, whether or not we see the afterlife as a final destination or some other continuation of our existence. This is true whether or not any specific moral system is universal and objective, because such a system is still, necessarily, inescapable about making preferential choices in service of direct and/or abstract enjoyments.William J Murray
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
05:51 AM
5
05
51
AM
PST
It is so ubiquitous, irrefutable and obvious he considers it a trivial observation.
So all you have been advocating is 2 + 2 = 4 and nothing more.                 Wow!!!!! What amazing insight. And it took 300,000+ words to say that. You just set a new world record for verbosity and vacuity. You can add that to your record of achievements. Why not say all you meant was A=A at the very beginning. Since it’s an inescapable self evident truth. I have a question. Was one of those books you wrote 500 pages long and on the first page you wrote 2+2 = 4 and the remaining 499 pages blank except for the page number?jerry
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
05:35 AM
5
05
35
AM
PST
KF, You can either deal with my perspective as I have written it and ask me questions about it and attempt to rebut what I actually say here, or continue imagining I'm talking about something else that you ore familiar with and using that as your straw man. Up to you, my argument stands unrefuted on its own points and merits. Note Jerry's response:
What every human being has done all their lives since the beginning of time. All of this is about the trivial and the obvious.
He agrees every human being has made preferential choices towards direct or abstract enjoyment all their lives since the beginning of time. It is so ubiquitous, irrefutable and obvious he considers it a trivial observation. Right up there with "I exist," "A=A," and "2+2=4." IOW, self-evidently true and inescapable.William J Murray
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
05:15 AM
5
05
15
AM
PST
This OP is 1240 comments long because a few commenters continually spout nonsense and people feel an obligation to treat their nonsense as serious. Who are the fools? All of us?jerry
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
04:47 AM
4
04
47
AM
PST
WJM, Epicureanism is not simple hedonism. KFkairosfocus
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
04:32 AM
4
04
32
AM
PST
Note the key phrases I use: “managing enjoyments”
What every human being has done all their lives since the beginning of time. All of this is about the trivial and the obvious. PS: in what world do books, zoom meetings, children, Facebook, going to work and money take place. Does it include breathing?jerry
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
04:12 AM
4
04
12
AM
PST
KF, I didn't say "Hedonism" because I didn't mean "Hedonism." Straw man. I also did not say, and explicitly said otherwise, that we always choose a continuous string of immediately enjoyable events; this is because we are capable of abstract thought, recognizing when choosing something "not enjoyable" in the direct now provides for preferable future or abstract enjoyment, such as going to work at a job you don't particularly enjoy so that you have the money to pay for all the things you do enjoy. Note the key phrases I use: "managing enjoyments" and "direct and abstract enjoyments." These are important concepts that cannot be described as mere "Hedonism." I mean, unless you're going to describe the pursuit of Heaven as an end a form of "Hedonism" because it is the preferable, more enjoyable "final" consequence to behavioral choices here.William J Murray
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
03:18 AM
3
03
18
AM
PST
WJM, hedonism fails, failed over 2,000 years ago. Epicureanism likewise failed so badly by AD 50 that Paul at Areopagus divided the audience and addressed the Stoics, leaving the Epicureans to stew in their own juices. Happiness through fulfillment of one's built-in ends is not equal to a string of enjoyed experiences. Wha sweet nanny goat mouth run 'im belly. Hence, duties connected to ends to soundly use freedom and reason to do the right, in the end, the path of wisdom and virtue. KFkairosfocus
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
03:08 AM
3
03
08
AM
PST
So, I'll tell you what the inescapable "First Duty" is of every possible sentient being in every possible world: enjoyment. From the moment a sentient being can think, they are managing their enjoyment of their existence. Free will is the capacity to intend a preference, even if one cannot actually make their intent occur physically. Preference is necessarily about what intended outcome one would enjoy (prefer) more than other options, either directly or some abstract sense. Morality is a system of behaviors that serve abstract enjoyments; such as, "getting to Heaven," which represents the maximally enjoyable final outcome for such behaviors. If moral behavior did not promise enjoyable outcomes, or did not produce an enjoyable abstract state, nobody would care. People do not either tell the truth or lie in accordance with a moral obligation to tell the truth per se; they tell the truth or lie in reference to either direct or abstract enjoyment. As soon as a choice to intend this or that is available, they always make that choice according to their actual, inescapable, self-evident "First" and only possible duty of any sort, existential or otherwise: enjoyment. They may pursue enjoyment well or badly, rationally or irrationally, sacrifice direct enjoyments for abstract (including future) enjoyment, but every decision is about managing enjoyments towards best enjoyable outcomes, as they see them.William J Murray
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
03:01 AM
3
03
01
AM
PST
WJM, John C Wright makes far better overall sense than you are inclined to credit. KFkairosfocus
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
02:57 AM
2
02
57
AM
PST
From KF's 1096:
I am trying to put across a subtle yet startling conclusion: that moral reasoning underpins all other forms of reasoning, and [is] logically prior to those forms. [–> recognises first duties and how they govern reason] We are moral and moralizing beings whether we know it or not, acknowledge it or not. Even to debate morality entails a moral decision, that is, whether to have an honest debate or a dishonest contest of mere rhetoric. [–> a significant observation]
Whoever wrote that, it's just a assertion that the question "whether to have an honest or dishonest debate" is a moral question at all. For me, it's a pragmatic/preferential decision, not a moral one. The "morality" of a proposed act or decision never enters my mind. But, I can understand why someone steeped in morality thinks everyone must be acting out of moral considerations. I've already shown that morality can only be a version of "preference to enjoyment, direct or abstract." When we understand the self-evident nature of "preference to enjoyment, direct or abstract," it becomes clear we are all necessarily pursuing the same ends: maximum enjoyment. All decisions, even those which are called "moral," serve the same ends (enjoyment.) As such, all choices are pragmatic (as best one can) attempts to reach the desired enjoyable ends - including moral choices. KF cannot show morality to be self-evident; I can show my perspective to be not only self-evident, but necessarily true across all sentient beings anywhere in all possible worlds.William J Murray
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
02:45 AM
2
02
45
AM
PST
Sandy, you are seeing a pale reflection of the Kantian ugly gulch between being and appearance. KM is directly aware of her own self-aware consciousness but struggles to recognise that other creatures she encounters are of the same essential nature, as a matter of self-evident certainty. She struggles with the veracity of the report of others, that they, too, are conscious [programmed zombies can issue utterances]. She doubts that her conscience is an oracle that just might be sound at least some of the time. She doesn't realise that there are no firewalls in our inner, mental, self-aware world so that if any major feature is subjected to hyperskeptical suspicion of general delusion, that propagates in an avalanche to create grand Plato's Cave style pervasive delusion. Or, tantamount to it, suspicion thereof. The resulting incoherence speaks for itself as we can so sadly see. And of course, she is likely to hotly object. But displacement to the perceived other does not solve the problem of collapse of credibility of rationality. And we can see such attempted projection above. This is a picture of the mess we have wrought because we thought we could erect a base for knowledge and rationality on evolutionary materialistic scientism, hyperskepticism and related isms as well as fellow travellers. We professed wisdom, and end in utter self-referential, self-defeating chaos. KFkairosfocus
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
02:36 AM
2
02
36
AM
PST
Karen McMannus You don’t know if I or anyone besides yourself has consciousness or not.You conclude so by working from a single data point: yourself?
:) You don’t know if I or anyone besides yourself don't have consciousness. You conclude so by working from a single data point: yourself?Sandy
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
02:23 AM
2
02
23
AM
PST
KM, BTW, language; I have for cause a very low tolerance for vulgarities. And in the [MIMO] cybernetic loop controllers with oracular supervisors is manifestly not nonsense, refuse or the like. You may want to look up Derek Smith's work. Notice, the somewhat related idea of adaptive controllers and controllers with learning. Notice, memory interfaces in such an architecture. KF PS: We are dealing with in part servo control and with decision making. kairosfocus
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
02:20 AM
2
02
20
AM
PST
Mohammadnursyamsu @1188 WJM, the creationist conceptual scheme isn’t actually idealism, or close to it. A conceptual scheme that divides reality into 2 categories of creator and creation, can obviously only be called, creationism. Show me how you think subjectivity and objectivity functions then. Under IRT, sentient beings are creators that subjectively manifest out of potential (what we call imagination) that which they (and others manifesting the same general things) experience as objective reality/facts (the created world they "inhabit.")William J Murray
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
02:05 AM
2
02
05
AM
PST
KM, I think it may help to add a summary on the structure of ethical thought:
Principles are broad general guidelines that all persons ought to follow. Morality is the dimension of life related to right conduct. It includes virtuous character and honorable intentions as well as the decisions and actions that grow out of them. Ethics on the other hand, is the [philosophical and theological] study of morality . . . [that is,] a higher order discipline that examines moral living in all its facets . . . . on three levels. The first level, descriptive ethics, simply portrays moral actions or virtues. A second level, normative ethics (also called prescriptive ethics), examines the first level, evaluating actions or virtues as morally right or wrong. A third level, metaethics, analyses the second . . . It clarifies the meaning of ethical terms and assesses the principles of ethical argument . . . . Some think, without reflecting on it, that . . . what people actually do is the standard of what is morally right . . . [But, what] actually happens and what ought to happen are quite different . . . . A half century ago, defenders of positivism routinely argued that descriptive statements are meaningful, but prescriptive statements (including all moral claims) are meaningless . . . In other words, ethical claims give no information about the world; they only reveal something about the emotions of the speaker . . . . Yet ethical statements do seem to say something about the realities to which they point. “That’s unfair!” encourages us to attend to circumstances, events, actions, or relationships in the world. We look for a certain quality in the world (not just the speaker’s mind) that we could properly call unfair. [Readings in Christian Ethics, Vol. 1: Theory and Method. (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 2002), pp. 18 – 19.]
Someone's or a circle's or even a sub-culture's or community's ethical views and changes or associated changes of behaviour patterns do not exhaust ethics and the underlying question of duty. Moral error exists, indeed your line of argument amounts to the moral truth claim that I and others who see certain ethical cases or principles as objective or even self-evidently certain truths regarding duty etc are in error. The irony involved would be amusing if it were not sad. Notice, again, because of the immediacy of absurdity on trying to deny a SET, its validation does not rely on elaboration of a worldview. Indeed, when we deal with pervasive first principles and duties, they are implicit and antecedent to reasoning or laying out worldview claims. Inescapability in rational life is a signature of self-evident first truth. Where, attempts to object or evade will inescapably appeal to same, as will misguided attempts to prove same. The selective hyperskepticism of our day is a crooked yardstick that makes us prone to be suspicious of first principles antecedent to and pervasive in rational, responsible, significantly free intelligent conduct, especially when expressed in language. However, such hyperskepticism is self-defeating. I again give an illustration regarding first principles of right reason, from Epictetus:
DISCOURSES CHAPTER XXV How is logic necessary? When someone in [Epictetus'] audience said, Convince me that logic is necessary, he answered: Do you wish me to demonstrate this to you?—Yes.—Well, then, must I use a demonstrative argument?—And when the questioner had agreed to that, Epictetus asked him. How, then, will you know if I impose upon you?—As the man had no answer to give, Epictetus said: Do you see how you yourself admit that all this instruction is necessary, if, without it, you cannot so much as know whether it is necessary or not? [Notice, inescapable, thus self evidently true and antecedent to the inferential reasoning that provides deductive proofs and frameworks, including axiomatic systems and propositional calculus etc. Cf J. C. Wright]
The point should be clear. But, we here deal with the mutually entangled thickets of a civilisation crisis level problematique. KFkairosfocus
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
01:33 AM
1
01
33
AM
PST
Jerry @1189, There's also the 4 published books since 1995, two blogs, three Facebook groups with thousands of members, two of which I helped found, a few interviews, and having cohosted two regular Zoom groups over the past 3 years on these or related topics. That's all not including here, so apparently the bet must have been much bigger than you think :)William J Murray
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
01:09 AM
1
01
09
AM
PST
KM, I pick a point almost at random that illustrates a part of the underlying problems:
why do some people with certain brain injuries have radical shifts in their “morality” and “rational conduct?” An adjustment to your thinking may be in order.
Of course, the iconic case of this suffered disfigurement, loss and serious radical alteration of social status and relationships. The impact of such factors should be clear; it is not a simple direct matter of a physical impact at work. In addition, we have the problems of interaction, the brain and CNS are in the loop, input-output front end processors. Perception modification, proprioception modification, memory loss and alteration, processing loss, reduced capability to manage one's body and linked frustration, increased awareness of dangers and potential for loss, rise of hypochondria and worry, sometimes, delusions [which then further modify interactions with others who now perceive one as increasingly irrational], possible impacts of long term pain and disfigurement etc and many other factors are also credibly involved. Compare, here, cases of senile dementia and loss of long ingrained inhibitions and trained in polite restraints . . . compare drunkenness etc. The human being is an incredibly complex creature. Such has long since been discussed here and elsewhere. What is more relevant, more fundamental is the notion that a computational substrate aptly accounts for rational inference and judgement, likely by extension of the more grandiose hopes and IoU's of AI ideology, beyond the far more modest results of actual AI. I put up an example of that thinking, from a Nobel Prize winning Scientist, to draw out where such can go:
. . . that "You", your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behaviour of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. As Lewis Carroll's Alice might have phrased: "You're nothing but a pack of neurons." This hypothesis is so alien to the ideas of most people today that it can truly be called astonishing.
Similarly, note JBS Haldane's longstanding critique of such thinking:
"It seems to me immensely unlikely that mind is a mere by-product of matter. For if my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true. They may be sound chemically, but that does not make them sound logically. And hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms. In order to escape from this necessity of sawing away the branch on which I am sitting, so to speak, I am compelled to believe that mind is not wholly conditioned by matter.” ["When I am dead," in Possible Worlds: And Other Essays [1927], Chatto and Windus: London, 1932, reprint, p.209. (NB: DI Fellow, Nancy Pearcey brings this right up to date (HT: ENV) in a current book, Finding Truth.)]
Here, Victor Reppert is also apt:
. . . let us suppose that brain state A [--> notice, state of a wetware, electrochemically operated computational substrate], which is token identical to the thought that all men are mortal, and brain state B, which is token identical to the thought that Socrates is a man, together cause the belief [--> concious, perceptual state or disposition] that Socrates is mortal. It isn’t enough for rational inference that these events be those beliefs, it is also necessary that the causal transaction be in virtue of the content of those thoughts . . . [But] if naturalism is true, then the propositional content is irrelevant to the causal transaction that produces the conclusion, and [so] we do not have a case of rational inference. In rational inference, as Lewis puts it, one thought causes another thought not by being, but by being seen to be, the ground for it. But causal transactions in the brain occur in virtue of the brain’s being in a particular type of state that is relevant to physical causal transactions.
The underlying analysis on limits of computation is general purpose and applies to neural network, digital machine, analogue machine, turing machine and hybrid architectures alike. The problem is, a computer is a dynamic-stochastic entity where next state or phase space trajectory unfolds based on present state, current inputs and environmental forces, stochastic noise and system architecture/organisation [with drift, wear component failure, redundancy etc involved]. Such a system is bound by cause-effect chains, it is not and cannot be creative, free enough to be rational. That is, GIGO rules the roost. Garbage in, garbage out. A notorious issue in computing. Where, under evolutionary materialistic scientism and/or fellow travellers, there is no credible programmer capable of creating a reliable organisation of elements and programming. For the computational capacity of the entire observed cosmos of 10^80 atoms for 10^17 s at ~10^14 valence shell chemistry energy level reactions per second [organic chem] is not credibly capable of finding islands of functionally specific complex organisation and/or associated information [FSCO/I] beyond 500 - 1,000 bits. In short, computationalism is not a reasonable model of rational, responsible, significantly free logically inferring, prudently judging mind. Nor is any reasonable advancement of computer science or physics going to bridge the gap. Computationalism fails, but it is yet another deeply ingrained crooked yardstick. A potentially more fruitful approach, implicit in the Smith Model, is the Oracle Machine. Wikipedia is a 101:
In complexity theory and computability theory, an oracle machine is an abstract machine used to study decision problems. It can be visualized as a Turing machine with a black box, called an oracle, which is able to solve certain decision problems in a single operation. The problem can be of any complexity class. Even undecidable problems, such as the halting problem, can be used. An oracle machine can be conceived as a Turing machine connected to an oracle. The oracle, in this context, is an entity capable of solving some problem, which for example may be a decision problem or a function problem. The problem does not have to be computable; the oracle is not assumed to be a Turing machine or computer program. The oracle is simply a "black box" that is able to produce a solution for any instance of a given computational problem: A decision problem is represented as a set A of natural numbers (or strings). An instance of the problem is an arbitrary natural number (or string). The solution to the instance is "YES" if the number (string) is in the set, and "NO" otherwise. A function problem is represented by a function f from natural numbers (or strings) to natural numbers (or strings). An instance of the problem is an input x for f. The solution is the value f(x). An oracle machine can perform all of the usual operations of a Turing machine, and can also query the oracle to obtain a solution to any instance of the computational problem for that oracle. For example, if the problem is a decision problem for a set A of natural numbers, the oracle machine supplies the oracle with a natural number, and the oracle responds with "yes" or "no" stating whether that number is an element of A. There are many equivalent definitions of oracle Turing machines, as discussed below. The one presented here is from van Melkebeek (2000:43). An oracle machine, like a Turing machine, includes: a work tape: a sequence of cells without beginning or end, each of which may contain a B (for blank) or a symbol from the tape alphabet; a read/write head, which rests on a single cell of the work tape and can read the data there, write new data, and increment or decrement its position along the tape; a control mechanism, which can be in one of a finite number of states, and which will perform different actions (reading data, writing data, moving the control mechanism, and changing states) depending on the current state and the data being read. In addition to these components, an oracle machine also includes: an oracle tape, which is a semi-infinite tape separate from the work tape. The alphabet for the oracle tape may be different from the alphabet for the work tape. an oracle head which, like the read/write head, can move left or right along the oracle tape reading and writing symbols; two special states: the ASK state and the RESPONSE state. From time to time, the oracle machine may enter the ASK state. When this happens, the following actions are performed in a single computational step: the contents of the oracle tape are viewed as an instance of the oracle's computational problem; the oracle is consulted, and the contents of the oracle tape are replaced with the solution to that instance of the problem; the oracle head is moved to the first square on the oracle tape; the state of the oracle machine is changed to RESPONSE. The effect of changing to the ASK state is thus to receive, in a single step, a solution to the problem instance that is written on the oracle tape . . .
See what an oracular supervisor can do to a cybernetic system with an in the loop controller, by way of judgement, free inference etc? Where, any informational pattern that is intelligible and reducible to a message can be reduced to a string of bits, in a suitable language. So, analysis on Y/N one-bit oracular responses -- though fairly clumsy relative to real world judgements and decision-making, creative insights or epiphanies, etc -- is WLOG. Going further, I just note that a suggested model for interface is quantum influence. KF PS: Jerry et al, I think it is relevant to address a clear underlying issue with some degree of context or substance, for record. Others may or may not take such seriously or may even take trollish delight in dragging out considerable effort [see how we make him dance], but the fact of record stands. Record, that exposes yet another common crooked yardstick of our day. There is a saying of Solomon, the laughter of a fool is as the cracking of thorns under a pot. That is, as they feed the flame that cooks something far more worthwhile than the crackling they make as the flame reduces them to ashes.kairosfocus
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
01:02 AM
1
01
02
AM
PST
Paige (attn AClue et al): First, the source of the turnabout projection tactic -- which you indubitably used above -- is not in doubt. It is entirely in order to warn against it and identify its utterly disgraceful roots. Where, kindly note the strawman game: I spoke to an action of rhetoric, a fallacious appeal (and the notorious prime exemplar of the tactic), NOT to inference of a mental state . . . you doubled down on a false projection that has been repeatedly corrected. Where, unfortunately, turnabout projection has become a standard tool of far too many in an increasingly polarised day. So, pardon me but your "new low" point and shriek, let's pile on rhetoric, as in how dare you raise a corrective . . . and clearly warranted . . . comparison to an iconic case of unquestionable deceitful evil, speaks for itself by way of self-referential incoherence. In short, yet again, you manage to miss that you are appealing to first duties of reason (albeit in error), in seeking to undermine their pervasive, inescapable authority you only managed to illustrate it. As for piling on and cross complaining, I need not defend others and whatever they may have done wrong [if that is so] to point out that the implicit appeal is that they are in the wrong. See the incoherence of the apparent underlying relativism? KF PS: Do you need me to point to iconic exemplars of point and shriek, pile on public shaming and stigmatising then scapegoating mob tactics? Please, think again regarding what is going on.kairosfocus
June 8, 2021
June
06
Jun
8
08
2021
12:10 AM
12
12
10
AM
PST
F/N2: It is relevant to expose some underlying evolutionary materialistic thinking by highlighting Michael Ruse & E. O. Wilson in their notorious 1991 essay, “The Evolution of Ethics”:
The time has come to take seriously the fact
[--> This is a gross error at the outset, as macro-evolution is a theory (an explanation) about the unobserved past of origins and so cannot be a fact on the level of the observed roundness of the earth or the orbiting of planets around the sun etc. and as the ideology of evolutionary materialistic scientism, which undergirds the perception of "fact" is an imposed, question-begging, self-refuting necessarily false assertion, not a fact]
that we humans are modified monkeys, not the favored Creation of a Benevolent God on the Sixth Day . . . We must think again [--> why, isn't that a disguised "OUGHT," the very thing being trashed?] especially about our so-called ‘ethical principles.’ [--> this speculation improperly dressed up as fact directly affects ethics, with implications for the first duties of reason] The question is not whether biology—specifically, our evolution—is connected with ethics, but how. As evolutionists, we see that no justification of the traditional kind is possible. Morality, or more strictly our belief in morality, is merely an adaptation put in place to further our reproductive ends. Hence the basis of ethics does not lie in God’s will … In an important sense, ethics as we understand it is an illusion fobbed off on us by our genes to get us to cooperate. It is without external grounding… Ethics is illusory inasmuch as it persuades us that it has an objective reference. This is the crux of the biological position. Once it is grasped, everything falls into place. [--> Yes, they are utterly unaware of how such undermines the credibility of reason thus their own rationality, by imposing grand delusion and undermining the moral government that drives how responsible rationality works] [Michael Ruse & E. O. Wilson, “The Evolution of Ethics,” Religion and the Natural Sciences: The Range of Engagement, , ed. J. E. Hutchingson, Orlando, Fl.:Harcourt and Brace, 1991.]
Will Hawthorne, in reply to such ideological imposition, is deservedly withering, echoing the concerns Plato raised in The Laws, Bk X, concerns that reflect lessons hard-bought with blood and tears:
Assume (per impossibile) that atheistic naturalism [= evolutionary materialism] is true. Assume, furthermore, that one can't infer an 'ought' from an 'is' [the 'is' being in this context physicalist: matter-energy, space- time, chance and mechanical forces]. (Richard Dawkins and many other atheists should grant both of these assumptions.) Given our second assumption, there is no description of anything in the natural world from which we can infer an 'ought'. And given our first assumption, there is nothing that exists over and above the natural world; the natural world is all that there is. It follows logically that, for any action you care to pick, there's no description of anything in the natural world from which we can infer that one ought to refrain from performing that action. Add a further uncontroversial assumption: an action is permissible if and only if it's not the case that one ought to refrain from performing that action . . . [We see] therefore, for any action you care to pick, it's permissible to perform that action. If you'd like, you can take this as the meat behind the slogan 'if atheism is true, all things are permitted'. For example if atheism is true, every action Hitler performed was permissible. Many atheists don't like this [nihilistic, absurd] consequence of their worldview. But they cannot escape it and insist that they are being logical at the same time. Now, we all know that at least some actions are really not permissible (for example, racist actions). Since the conclusion of the argument denies this, there must be a problem somewhere in the argument. Could the argument be invalid? No. The argument has not violated a single rule of logic and all inferences were made explicit. Thus we are forced to deny the truth of one of the assumptions we started out with. That means we either deny atheistic naturalism or (the more intuitively appealing) principle that one can't infer 'ought' from [a material] 'is'.
The underlying incoherence of evolutionary materialistic scientism should not be underestimated. KFkairosfocus
June 7, 2021
June
06
Jun
7
07
2021
11:51 PM
11
11
51
PM
PST
F/N: As noted, ethicists have long critiqued the ever increasing dominance of relativism, subjectivism and emotivism. An example follows, which shows the utter incoherence of dominant ideologies regarding morality and its study:
Excerpted chapter summary, on Subjectivism, Relativism, and Emotivism, in Doing Ethics 3rd Edn, by Lewis Vaughn, W W Norton, 2012. [Also see here and here.] Clipping: . . . Subjective relativism is the view that an action is morally right if one approves of it. A person’s approval makes the action right. This doctrine (as well as cultural relativism) is in stark contrast to moral objectivism, the view that some moral principles are valid for everyone.. Subjective relativism, though, has some troubling implications. It implies that each person is morally infallible and that individuals can never have a genuine moral disagreement Cultural relativism is the view that an action is morally right if one’s culture approves of it. The argument for this doctrine is based on the diversity of moral judgments among cultures: because people’s judgments about right and wrong differ from culture to culture, right and wrong must be relative to culture, and there are no objective moral principles. This argument is defective, however, because the diversity of moral views does not imply that morality is relative to cultures. In addition, the alleged diversity of basic moral standards among cultures may be only apparent, not real. Societies whose moral judgments conflict may be differing not over moral principles but over nonmoral facts. Some think that tolerance is entailed by cultural relativism. But there is no necessary connection between tolerance and the doctrine. Indeed, the cultural relativist cannot consistently advocate tolerance while maintaining his relativist standpoint. To advocate tolerance is to advocate an objective moral value. But if tolerance is an objective moral value, then cultural relativism must be false, because it says that there are no objective moral values. Like subjective relativism, cultural relativism has some disturbing consequences. It implies that cultures are morally infallible, that social reformers can never be morally right, that moral disagreements between individuals in the same culture amount to arguments over whether they disagree with their culture, that other cultures cannot be legitimately criticized, and that moral progress is impossible. Emotivism is the view that moral utterances are neither true nor false but are expressions of emotions or attitudes. It leads to the conclusion that people can disagree only in attitude, not in beliefs. People cannot disagree over the moral facts, because there are no moral facts. Emotivism also implies that presenting reasons in support of a moral utterance is a matter of offering nonmoral facts that can influence someone’s attitude. It seems that any nonmoral facts will do, as long as they affect attitudes. Perhaps the most far-reaching implication of emotivism is that nothing is actually good or bad. There simply are no properties of goodness and badness. There is only the expression of favorable or unfavorable emotions or attitudes toward something.
That is enough to establish utter failure. KFkairosfocus
June 7, 2021
June
06
Jun
7
07
2021
11:49 PM
11
11
49
PM
PST
KM, I am not SB. I have explicitly explained why I do not appeal to intuitions, even though there are those who speak of the response of understanding and recognising that a SET per its statement not only is but must be true. Notice how I took pains to highlight the immediate absurdities of attempted denial. And there they are yet again. In denying first duties, you imply our duties to truth, right reason, warrant etc yet again. This illustrates the pervasive, inescapable presence of first truths as all your objections do. The matter is so plain that it is clear that it is the presence of other controlling commitments that leads you to resist the force of evidence you yourself provide. Beyond, we can use the yardstick case, the evil of kidnapping, sexually torturing and murdering a young child on the way home from school to show just how manifest is a case of blatant evil. If a worldview, no matter how hard the relativism is drummed in, cannot recognise and see that blatant evil violates first duties, it fails. Your attempted response collapses. That your response reflects widespread ideas entrenched in education, media, policy etc is a red warning flag on where our civilisation is. KF PS: This is a quick, summary response to the main issue. I now, again, append Lewis Vaughn's critique.kairosfocus
June 7, 2021
June
06
Jun
7
07
2021
11:44 PM
11
11
44
PM
PST
@Paige:
Wow, this is a new low. Clairvoyantly assigning motives to others and smearing them with Nazi insinuations.
Are you new to this forum? This is old. We have Jerry's sex with 10-year-olds, Joe's mating of humans and animals, lot's of 1984 and Nazi references. Even a supporter of ID was called a quisling, when he dared to speak against the party line. While some analogies are appropriate, many are there just to troll or stem from triggered snowflakes.AndyClue
June 7, 2021
June
06
Jun
7
07
2021
10:48 PM
10
10
48
PM
PST
Paige Using the words “ new low, “ and “smear” just seems so judgmental as if he shouldn’t being saying those things especially if it makes him happy. Vividvividbleau
June 7, 2021
June
06
Jun
7
07
2021
09:38 PM
9
09
38
PM
PST
VB
Should he not be doing that?
If he chooses to insinuate Nazi motives to those he disagrees with rather than have a civil discussion, I am certainly not going to stop him. It is not the approach I would take but he should do whatever makes him happy.paige
June 7, 2021
June
06
Jun
7
07
2021
09:31 PM
9
09
31
PM
PST
Vivid, My bad that I assumed someone with a consciousness is engaging with me won’t do it again with you. Well, what mode are you in? Philosophical mode? Or regular-guy-on-street mode? Not the same thing. I'll be happy to dispense with the philosophy talk and just be a regular gal for the sake of garden variety "hello neighbor" superficial chit chat, if that's what you're looking for.Karen McMannus
June 7, 2021
June
06
Jun
7
07
2021
08:24 PM
8
08
24
PM
PST
Paige “Wow, this is a new low. Clairvoyantly assigning motives to others and smearing them with Nazi insinuations” Should he not be doing that? Vividvividbleau
June 7, 2021
June
06
Jun
7
07
2021
08:21 PM
8
08
21
PM
PST
1 2 3 4 5 44

Leave a Reply