Searching for the quantum bits of the universe

How many Quantum Bits in a qbit? Mung

VunderGuy, my bad. Sorry. In regards to cosmology right here on UD, that would be Rob Sheldon and Luke Barnes as far as I know, (though they don't get along with each other right now as far as I know due to a fall out on the recent Gravitational Waves). The bad thing for you is that they both rarely personally comment on UD. But, I believe, Luke Barnes has his own website where you can ask him a question or two. As far as cosmology in ID in general, two heavy hitters are Gonzalez and Collins. bornagain77

Vunderguy perhaps this will help :) http://www.gotquestions.org/glorified-bodies.html Question: "How does the Bible describe the glorified bodies we will possess in Heaven?" Answer: While the Bible doesn’t describe in detail the glorified bodies we will receive in heaven, we know that they will be like that of Jesus’ resurrected body. Our human bodies are described in 1 Corinthians 15:42–53 as perishable, dishonorable, and weak, all due to sin. Our glorified bodies will be imperishable, honorable, and powerful. Our new bodies will be no longer “natural” bodies, but “spiritual” bodies, no longer focused upon the natural senses but at one with the Holy Spirit. As imperishable bodies, they will no longer suffer from sickness and death, nor will they ever be subject to heat and cold or hunger and thirst. Our new bodies will be honorable in that they will not be shamed or shameful because of sin. When Adam and Eve sinned, the first thing they felt was shame because of their nakedness (Genesis 3:6–7). Although the Bible doesn’t portray glorified bodies as being naked, but rather clothed in white garments (Revelation 3:4–5, 18), they will be pure and undefiled by sin. Our earthly bodies are “weak” in many ways. Not only are we subject to the natural laws of gravity and time/space, we are weakened by sin and its temptations. Our glorified bodies will be empowered by the Spirit that owns us, and weakness will be no more. Just as our earthly bodies are perfectly suited to life on earth, our resurrected bodies will be the same for life in heaven. We will have form and solidity to the touch, yet with no hindrance to travel (John 20:19, 26; Luke 24:39). We will be able to enjoy food, but will not be driven to it by necessity for nourishment nor fleshly desire (Luke 24:40–43). And like Moses and Elijah, we will be able to bathe in the glory of our Maker in the fellowship of His dear Son (Matthew 17:2–3; Philippians 3:10). The bodies we inherit will be more like what God had originally made us to be, rather than what we now abide in through the infirmity and weakness of our sinful flesh. We will be glorified with Christ, and that glory will extend to the bodies we will inhabit. Recommended Resources: Heaven by Randy Alcorn and Logos Bible Software. wallstreeter43

@bornagain Ummm... that refers to biological complexity. I'm talking about cosmology here. VunderGuy

VunderGuy, a good place to start on 'uncommon descent' would be Stephen Meyer's book 'Darwin's Doubt': Dr. Meyer's interview with C-SPAN's BookTV, a comprehensive discussion of Darwin's Doubt: Summer 2013 http://www.booktv.org/Watch/14854/Book+TV+at+FreedomFest+Stephen+Meyer+Darwins+Doubt+The+Explosive+Origin+of+Animal+Life+and+the+Case+for+Intelligent+Design.aspx Socrates in the City - "Darwin's Doubt" Eric Metaxas with Stephen Meyer - video https://vimeo.com/81215936 If anyone has not read Darwin's Doubt yet, Dr. Paul Giem has done a chapter by chapter 'cliff notes' video series on the book here: Darwin's Doubt - Paul Giem - video playlist http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHDSWJBW3DNUaMy2xdaup5ROw3u0_mK8t bornagain77

Vunderguy, here is a Christian Pastor who was run over by a semi-truck in his sub-compact car, was dead for 90 minutes, and who went to Heaven during that time. 90 Minutes in Heaven - Don Piper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0aJFu-GlYg bornagain77

@bornagain Sorry. I was referring to uncommon descent when I said that question concerning cosmology. VunderGuy

Well Vunderguy, perhaps Hugh Ross at reasons to believe? bornagain77

@bornagain77 Then what do you mean by heaven, then? Because from the article of Dr. Craig's, it seems that the biblical hope is that we'll ultimately be resurrected in bodily form, be given judgement, and if we were judged in the right way, given far better physical bodies. If one is still alive physically during the final judgement and is judged the right way, then their bodies get better as well. This seems to be in line with what the ancient Jews thought. Is it not possible that you may be conflating 'heaven' with that intermediate state when we are with Christ for a bit before the resurrection? VunderGuy

@bornagain Hey dude, do you know who I should talk to in order to get a better idea of cosmology? Because I once heard someone say that a blackhole produces universes and that doesn't sit right with me. I think he may be confusing the initial cosmic singularity with the gravitational singularity that a blackhole is. How could anyone even confuse the two, though, since in the standard model, gravity comes into being and thusly, there couldn't have been a black-hole to be the first cause of any universe? VunderGuy

Vunderguy, actually I am sure my physics is on the ball and my Christian theology is correct. bornagain77

@bornagain You ever hear of William Lane Craig? http://www.reasonablefaith.org/transcript/what-happens-when-we-die Excerpt from the article. "The first and most fundamental truth that we must hold on to is that the biblical hope of immortality is physical, bodily resurrection. I repeat: The biblical hope for immortality is physical, bodily resurrection. The biblical hope is not that the soul will someday be separated from the body and fly off to heaven and be forever with God in heaven in this disembodied existence. That’s actually a very Greek understanding of the afterlife, from the Greek philosophers like Plato, and it’s very different from the Jewish-Hebrew way of thinking of the afterlife. For Jews and for the early Christians alike, the hope of immortality was not the immortality of the soul alone but rather the resurrection of the body. This physical body will be raised from the dead and transformed to immortal life." Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/transcript/what-happens-when-we-die#ixzz2zD3bkCz5 VunderGuy

VunderGuy, Since I'm not well read in exact Jewish views I can't give you a definitive answer, and suggest that you search the web a bit or perhaps someone else on UD (Barb, SteohenB etc..) can help, but from what little I do know of Jewish thought they are broadly similar. bornagain77

@bornagain77 Isn't the Christian view of heaven, physical, bodily resurrection, like the Jewish view? VunderGuy

Christianity in a World of Religions - Dr. Craig J. Hazen, Ph.D - video http://www.harvestchurch.tv/sermons/elephant-in-the-room/#675 bornagain77

The full depth of the wilful stupidity of those who claimed the Shroud of Turin to be a medieval forgery, when nobody would even have known about photographic negatives, still less wished to produce one on the Shroud, stunned me when I first read of it. No abyss of wilful stupidity on the part of materialism's finest could do so now, of course. Axel

Well, after watching the promo video, now my opinion is perhaps a little more educated, hence it has softened to the point of backtracking from some of my previous statements. So maybe we should keep the work these folks do at this huge facility, but not at the expense of biological research. Therefore the funds should come from trimming any wasteful projects that are currently supported by taxpayers. After all, despite my ignorance, I'm a big fan of serious science. Dionisio

As a non-scientist, I was unpleasantly surprised when I talked to biology scientists, asked them relatively simple 'zygote to birth' developmental questions and got "we don't know exactly" for answer. Then some complained that there's not sufficient support for more intensive and extensive research in those important areas. But so many resources are assigned to less beneficial issues. Maybe science priorities should be reviewed? Again, I'm an ignorant, so I could be wrong on the way I see this. But it seems like the possibilities for beneficial discoveries in the biology area are much higher than in other more esoteric science endeavors. Dionisio

What if the universe turns out to be fiction? Can Fermilab still fund the research?

All this speculative talking seems very interesting and mysterious, but I'd rather see more funds directed to research in neuroscience and biological development, specially the area of cell fate determination, biological triggers and timers, etc., as well as more medical research on cancer, Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson, etch. At least there's more potential benefit from biology research for medical advancement. I wouldn't even spend so much money on OOL research, but redirect the resources toward the above mentioned biological areas. Dionisio

Verse and Music:

Colossians 1:15-20 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Kari Jobe – Revelation Song – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FObjd5wrgZ8

bornagain77

Moreover, as would be expected if Gravity and Quantum Mechanics were truly unified in the resurrection event of Jesus Christ, the image on the Shroud of Turin was formed by a quantum process not by a classical process:

The absorbed energy in the Shroud body image formation appears as contributed by discrete values – Giovanni Fazio, Giuseppe Mandaglio – 2008 Excerpt: This result means that the optical density distribution,, can not be attributed at the absorbed energy described in the framework of the classical physics model. It is, in fact, necessary to hypothesize a absorption by discrete values of the energy where the ‘quantum’ is equal to the one necessary to yellow one fibril. http://cab.unime.it/journals/index.php/AAPP/article/view/C1A0802004/271 Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural – December 2011 Excerpt: After years of work trying to replicate the colouring on the shroud, a similar image has been created by the scientists. However, they only managed the effect by scorching equivalent linen material with high-intensity ultra violet lasers, undermining the arguments of other research, they say, which claims the Turin Shroud is a medieval hoax. Such technology, say researchers from the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (Enea), was far beyond the capability of medieval forgers, whom most experts have credited with making the famous relic. “The results show that a short and intense burst of UV directional radiation can colour a linen cloth so as to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image on the Shroud of Turin,” they said. And in case there was any doubt about the preternatural degree of energy needed to make such distinct marks, the Enea report spells it out: “This degree of power cannot be reproduced by any normal UV source built to date.” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-say-turin-shroud-is-supernatural-6279512.html

Personally, considering the extreme difficulty that many brilliant minds have had in trying to reconcile Quantum Mechanics and Special Relativity (Quantum Electrodynamics) with Gravity (General Relativity),,,

Science vs God Its The Collapse Of Physics As We Know it - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoYZSbbp_U

,,, then I consider the preceding 'quantum' nuance on the Shroud of Turin to be a subtle, but powerful, evidence substantiating Christ’s primary claim as to being our Savior from sin, death, and hell:

John 8:23-24 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” G.O.S.P.E.L. – (the grace of propitiation) – poetry slam – video https://vimeo.com/20960385

Supplemental note, humans, besides emitting classical 'thermal' light, also emit biophotonic 'quantum' light:

Photocount distribution of photons emitted from three sites of a human body - 2006 Excerpt: Signals from three representative sites of low, intermediate and high intensities are selected for further analysis. Fluctuations in these signals are measured by the probabilities of detecting different numbers of photons in a bin. The probabilities have non-classical features and are well described by the signal in a quantum squeezed state of photons. Measurements with bins of three sizes yield same values of three parameters of the squeezed state. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16520060 Strange! Humans Glow in Visible Light - Charles Q. Choi - July 22, 2009 Schematic illustration of experimental setup that found the human body, especially the face, emits visible light in small quantities that vary during the day. B is one fo the test subjects. The other images show the weak emissions of visible light during totally dark conditions. The chart corresponds to the images and shows how the emissions varied during the day. The last image (I) is an infrared image of the subject showing heat emissions. http://i.livescience.com/images/i/000/006/481/original/090722-body-glow-02.jpg?1296086873 Biophotons - The Light In Our Cells - Marco Bischof - March 2005 Excerpt page 2: The Coherence of Biophotons: ,,, Biophotons consist of light with a high degree of order, in other words, biological laser light. Such light is very quiet and shows an extremely stable intensity, without the fluctuations normally observed in light. Because of their stable field strength, its waves can superimpose, and by virtue of this, interference effects become possible that do not occur in ordinary light. Because of the high degree of order, the biological laser light is able to generate and keep order and to transmit information in the organism. http://www.international-light-association.eu/PDF/Biophotons.pdf The Real Bioinformatics Revolution - Proteins and Nucleic Acids 'Singing' to One Another? Excerpt: the molecules send out specific frequencies of electromagnetic waves which not only enable them to ‘see' and ‘hear' each other, as both photon and phonon modes exist for electromagnetic waves, but also to influence each other at a distance and become ineluctably drawn to each other if vibrating out of phase (in a complementary way).,,, More than 1 000 proteins from over 30 functional groups have been analysed. Remarkably, the results showed that proteins with the same biological function share a single frequency peak while there is no significant peak in common for proteins with different functions; furthermore the characteristic peak frequency differs for different biological functions. ,,, The same results were obtained when regulatory DNA sequences were analysed. http://www.i-sis.org.uk/TheRealBioinformaticsRevolution.php Are humans really beings of light? Excerpt: "We now know, today, that man is essentially a being of light.",,, "There are about 100,000 chemical reactions happening in every cell each second. The chemical reaction can only happen if the molecule which is reacting is excited by a photon... Once the photon has excited a reaction it returns to the field and is available for more reactions... We are swimming in an ocean of light." http://viewzone2.com/dna.html

bornagain77

Also of interest, General Relativity reveals a very different 'eternity' than Special Relativity does. As with any 'hypothetical' observer accelerating to the speed of light, it is found that for any ‘hypothetical’ observer falling to the event horizon of a black hole, that time, as we understand it, will come to a complete stop for them.

Gravitational time dilation tests http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation#Gravitational_time_dilation_tests

This is because the accelerative force of gravity at black holes is so intense that not even light can escape its grip:

Space-Time of a Black hole – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0VOn9r4dq8

But of particular interest to the ‘eternal framework’ found for General Relativity at black holes, it is interesting to note that entropic decay (Randomness/Chaos), which is the primary reason why things grow old and eventually die in this universe,,,

80 years in 40 seconds - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9wToWdXaQg

,,, is found to be greatest at black holes.

Entropy of the Universe - Hugh Ross - May 2010 Excerpt: Egan and Lineweaver found that supermassive black holes are the largest contributor to the observable universe’s entropy. They showed that these supermassive black holes contribute about 30 times more entropy than what the previous research teams estimated. http://www.reasons.org/entropy-universe Roger Penrose – How Special Was The Big Bang? “But why was the big bang so precisely organized, whereas the big crunch (or the singularities in black holes) would be expected to be totally chaotic? It would appear that this question can be phrased in terms of the behaviour of the WEYL part of the space-time curvature at space-time singularities. What we appear to find is that there is a constraint WEYL = 0 (or something very like this) at initial space-time singularities-but not at final singularities-and this seems to be what confines the Creator’s choice to this very tiny region of phase space.” “Einstein’s equation predicts that, as the astronaut reaches the singularity (of the black-hole), the tidal forces grow infinitely strong, and their chaotic oscillations become infinitely rapid. The astronaut dies and the atoms which his body is made become infinitely and chaotically distorted and mixed-and then, at the moment when everything becomes infinite (the tidal strengths, the oscillation frequencies, the distortions, and the mixing), spacetime ceases to exist.” Kip S. Thorne – “Black Holes and Time Warps: Einstein’s Outrageous Legacy” pg. 476

Thus the ‘eternity’ at black holes can rightly be described as ‘eternities of decay and/or eternities of destruction’. In light of this dilemma that the two very different eternities present to us 'spiritually minded' people, and the fact that Gravity is, in so far as we can tell, completely incompatible with Quantum Mechanics,,,

A Capella Science - Bohemian Gravity! - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rjbtsX7twc Bohemian Gravity – Rob Sheldon – September 19, 2013 Excerpt: (the video) has gone viral–the one man a cappella production of “Bohemian Gravity”.,,,, ,,,there’s a large contingent of physicists who believe that string theory is the heroin of theoretical physics. It has absorbed not just millions of dollars, but hundreds if not thousands of grad student lifetimes without delivering what it promised–a unified theory of the universe and life. It is hard, in fact, to find a single contribution from string theory despite 25 years of intense effort by thousands of the very brightest and best minds our society can find. http://rbsp.info/PROCRUSTES/bohemian-gravity/

,,, in light of that irreconcilability, it is very interesting to point out a subtle nuance on the Shroud of Turin. Namely that Gravity was overcome in the resurrection event of Christ:

A Quantum Hologram of Christ’s Resurrection? by Chuck Missler Excerpt: “You can read the science of the Shroud, such as total lack of gravity, lack of entropy (without gravitational collapse), no time, no space—it conforms to no known law of physics.” The phenomenon of the image brings us to a true event horizon, a moment when all of the laws of physics change drastically. Dame Piczek created a one-fourth size sculpture of the man in the Shroud. When viewed from the side, it appears as if the man is suspended in mid air (see graphic, below), indicating that the image defies previously accepted science. The phenomenon of the image brings us to a true event horizon, a moment when all of the laws of physics change drastically. http://www.khouse.org/articles/2008/847 THE EVENT HORIZON (Space-Time Singularity) OF THE SHROUD OF TURIN. – Isabel Piczek – Particle Physicist Excerpt: We have stated before that the images on the Shroud firmly indicate the total absence of Gravity. Yet they also firmly indicate the presence of the Event Horizon. These two seemingly contradict each other and they necessitate the past presence of something more powerful than Gravity that had the capacity to solve the above paradox. http://shroud3d.com/findings/isabel-piczek-image-formation Particle Radiation from the Body – July 2012 – M. Antonacci, A. C. Lind Excerpt: The Shroud’s frontal and dorsal body images are encoded with the same amount of intensity, independent of any pressure or weight from the body. The bottom part of the cloth (containing the dorsal image) would have born all the weight of the man’s supine body, yet the dorsal image is not encoded with a greater amount of intensity than the frontal image. Radiation coming from the body would not only explain this feature, but also the left/right and light/dark reversals found on the cloth’s frontal and dorsal body images. http://www.academicjournals.org/sre/PDF/pdf2012/30JulSpeIss/Antonacci.pdf

bornagain77

Here is a neat little video on 'Flatland':

Dr Quantum - Flatland - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWyTxCsIXE4

What is interesting is that the space-time of 'Flatland' is verified by Special Relativity:

Optical Effects of Special Relativity - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQnHTKZBTI4

Please note the optical effect, at the 3:22 minute mark of the preceding video, when the 3-Dimensional world ‘folds and collapses’ into a tunnel shape around the direction of travel as a 'hypothetical' observer moves towards the ‘higher dimension’ of the speed of light. Also of note: The preceding video was made by two Australian University Physics Professors with a supercomputer. Here is their interactive website, with link to the relativistic math at the bottom of the page.

Seeing Relativity http://www.anu.edu.au/Physics/Searle/

Of related interest, Einstein used the 'thought experiment' of moving away from the face of a clock at the speed of light to first deduce special relativity:

Albert Einstein - Special Relativity - Insight Into Eternity - 'thought experiment' video http://www.metacafe.com/w/6545941/

i.e. Would not the hands on the clock stay stationary as you moved away from the face of the clock at the speed of light? Some may think that time, as we understand it, coming to a complete stop at the speed of light is pure science fiction, but, as incredible as it sounds, Einstein’s infamous thought experiment has many lines of evidence now supporting it.

Velocity time dilation tests http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation#Velocity_time_dilation_tests "The laws of relativity have changed timeless existence from a theological claim to a physical reality. Light, you see, is outside of time, a fact of nature proven in thousands of experiments at hundreds of universities. I don’t pretend to know how tomorrow can exist simultaneously with today and yesterday. But at the speed of light they actually and rigorously do. Time does not pass." Richard Swenson - More Than Meets The Eye, Chpt. 12

Moreover, both time dilation and the 'tunnel curvature' of the 3-Dimensional world ‘folding and collapsing’ into a tunnel shape around the direction of travel as a 'hypothetical' observer moves towards the ‘higher dimension’ of the speed of light, find support from Near Death Experience testimonies:

'When you die, you enter eternity. It feels like you were always there, and you will always be there. You realize that existence on Earth is only just a brief instant.' Dr. Ken Ring - has extensively studied Near Death Experiences 'Earthly time has no meaning in the spirit realm. There is no concept of before or after. Everything - past, present, future - exists simultaneously.' - Kimberly Clark Sharp - NDE Experiencer "I started to move toward the light. The way I moved, the physics, was completely different than it is here on Earth. It was something I had never felt before and never felt since. It was a whole different sensation of motion. I obviously wasn't walking or skipping or crawling. I was not floating. I was flowing. I was flowing toward the light. I was accelerating and I knew I was accelerating, but then again, I didn't really feel the acceleration. I just knew I was accelerating toward the light. Again, the physics was different - the physics of motion of time, space, travel. It was completely different in that tunnel, than it is here on Earth. I came out into the light and when I came out into the light, I realized that I was in heaven." Barbara Springer - Near Death Experience - The Tunnel - video https://vimeo.com/79072924 “I was in a body, and the only way that I can describe it was a body of energy, or of light. And this body had a form. It had a head, it had arms and it had legs. And it was like it was made out of light. And it was everything that was me. All of my memories, my consciousness, everything.”,,, “And then this vehicle formed itself around me. Vehicle is the only thing, or tube, or something, but it was a mode of transportation that’s for sure! And it formed around me. And there was no one in it with me. I was in it alone. But I knew there were other people ahead of me and behind me. What they were doing I don’t know, but there were people ahead of me and people behind me, but I was alone in my particular conveyance. And I could see out of it. And it went at a tremendously, horrifically, rapid rate of speed. But it wasn’t unpleasant. It was beautiful in fact. I was reclining in this thing, I wasn’t sitting straight up, but I wasn’t lying down either. I was sitting back. And it was just so fast. I can’t even begin to tell you where it went or whatever it was just fast!" – - Vicky Noratuk Coast to Coast - Vicki's Near Death Experience (Blind From Birth) part 1 of 3 = audio interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e65KhcCS5-Y

As a sidenote: This following video interview of a Harvard Neurosurgeon, who had a Near Death Experience (NDE), is very interesting. His NDE was rather unique from typical NDEs in that he had completely lost brain wave function for 7 days while the rest of his body was on life support. As such he had what can be termed a ‘pure consciousness’ NDE that was dramatically different from the ‘typical’ Judeo-Christian NDEs of going through a tunnel to a higher heavenly dimension, seeing departed relatives, and having a life review. His NDE featured his ‘consciousness’ going outside the confines of space/time, matter/energy altogether to experience ‘non-locally’ what he termed ‘the Core’, i.e to experience God. It is also interesting to note that he retained a ‘finite sense of self-identity’, as Theism would hold, and did not blend into the infinite consciousness/omniscience of God, as pantheism would hold.

A Conversation with Near Death Experiencer Neurosurgeon Eben Alexander III, M.D. with Steve Paulson (Interviewer) - video http://www.btci.org/bioethics/2012/videos2012/vid3.html

bornagain77

If humanity could build a particle collider the size of the Milky Way, we might be able to investigate Planck-scale bits directly.

Well, that's an interesting idea for an ID-er; the universe is an enormous experiment, and the Milky Way is a Planck scale collider ... actually I think the universe is a demonstration, but that's close enough. It is part of the reason why I like to tell people that God was the first scientist, which is why he says:

"test me, and see"

... long before science was popular, or respectable. ScuzzaMan