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Dawkins’ Philosophical Incoherence

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In River out of Eden : A Darwinian View of Life Richard Dawkins wrote:

The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference. As that unhappy poet A.E. Housman put it: ‘For Nature, heartless, witless Nature Will neither care nor know.’ DNA neither cares nor knows. DNA just is. And we dance to its music.

In a 2007 New Scientist/Greenpeace Science debate, Dawkins said:

Far from being the most selfish, exploitative species, Homo sapiens is the only species that has at least the possibility of rebelling against the otherwise universally selfish Darwinian impulse . . . If any species in the history of life has the possibility of breaking away from short term selfishness and of long term planning for the distant future, it’s our species. We are earth’s last best hope even if we are simultaneously, the species most capable of destroying life on the planet. But when it comes to taking the long view, we are literally unique. Because the long view is not a view that has ever been taken before in whole history of life. If we don’t plan for the future, no other species will . . .

Dawkins’ does not seem to understand that he cannot have his cake and eat it too, and that leads the world’s most prominent atheist/evolutionary biologist to make mutually exclusive truth claims that I would expect the average high school freshman to avoid. Let us examine a couple:

1. DNA is all there is, and we dance to its music. Yet it is possible for Homo sapiens to rebel against DNA. But how can DNA rebel against itself? I cannot rise above myself. I cannot reach down, grab my bootstraps, and pull myself off the floor.

2. There is no good and no evil. Yet Homo sapiens has the capability of planning for the future (presumably to avoid an undesired outcome or achieve a desired outcome). But if there is no good and no evil, on what grounds should we desire any particular outcome and plan for it?

UPDATE BELOW THE FOLD

From the comments, it seems that the 1st conclusion above is not as obvious as I thought it was.  Let me try to spell it out in small steps.

1. Dawkins is a philosophical materialist.

2. Philosophical materialism compels the conclusion that mind does not exist and that what we call “mind” is an illusion, an epiphenomenon of the chemical processes of the brain.

3. Consequently, to remain logically coherent Dawkins must believe in a pure biological reductionism. And he does. His statement “DNA neither cares nor knows. DNA just is. And we dance to its music” is just another way for Dawkins to say, “Look everyone! I’m a dyed-in-the-wool biological reductionist.” I would have thought that is obvious, but apparently it is not.

4. Biological determinism is an inescapable corollary to biological reductionism. In other words, if every choice we make can be reduced to the chemical processes of the brain, free will is an illusion. This is what Dawkins means when he says we dance to DNA’s music.

5. Then, having said that free will is an illusion, Dawkins sounds like a Cartesian dualist in the Greenpeace debate. He says it is possible for us to “rebel” against the “otherwise universally selfish Darwinian impulse.” If this is not special pleading, I do not know what is.

6. The selfish Darwinian impulse is universal, Dawkins says. We dance to DNA’s music. Our every choice is utterly determined. Free will is an illusion. No, wait, Dawkins replies. The Darwinian impulse is only nearly universal. “I” can rebel against it. Here’s the problem. If we accept Dawkins’ initial premises, the conclusion that “I” can rebel against biological determinism is pure gibberish for the simple reason that the “I” in that statement does not exist. There is only matter in motion, and matter in motion cannot “rebel” against itself. Indeed, the concept of matter in motion rebelling against matter in motion is logically incoherent. If Dawkins’ initial premises are correct, my body is nothing but a complex biological machine, and the self-awareness I feel is an illusion. Therefore, the very idea that “I” have a “choice” about whether to follow selfish Darwinian impulses is meaningless.

So we see that Dawkins is not just any sort of fool.  He is a simpering gutless fool.  He wants to have his atheism with its concomitant materialism, but he does not have the courage to face the earth shattering metaphysical conclusions that follow ineluctability from his premises.  Instead, he tries to smuggle foundational ethics (of a particularly Christian variety at that!) in through the back door.  He shirks not only in ethics but also in politics.  See here.

Give me Nietzsche over Dawkins any day.  One can disagree with Nietzsche, yet still come away with a sort of respect for his courage.  Nietzsche never simpered nor shirked.  He faced the terrifying conclusions of his premises head on.  In our time Will Provine follows in Nietzsche’s footsteps and takes his atheism seriously:  “Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent.”  Evolution: Free Will and Punishment and Meaning in Life, Second Annual Darwin Day Celebration Keynote Address.

Comments
"Thats got to be some kind of record for this blog!!" huzzahhh! :)molch
August 9, 2010
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Molch "I can see that we actually completely agree!" Thats got to be some kind of record for this blog!! "but so far, all of my theist friends have disagreed with me on that and insisted that there is, somehow, a free will in all humans." They dont know what they are talking about. Many theists really have not thought through these issues. next time when they deny that their will is determined ask them did they determine to make that statement or did "nothing" make that determination for them. Ask them if effects need not have a cause? Then watch them hem and haw. "Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, and dig down to the gritty details! I am looking forward to more discussions with you!!!" Back at you!! Vividvividbleau
August 9, 2010
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"Hi Molch hope you had a great weekend" Good morning Vivid - thanks for the godspeed, I had indeed a great weekend, I hope you did too!! Looks like the break was very fruitful to our discussion, because now that you have laid out your position in all detail, I can see that we actually completely agree! "What can be more free than the freedom to choose what we want to choose? Evidently you do not see a logical path to this conclusion" This is the one and only meaning of free will/free choice that I DO accept - the freedom from coercion. There is no logical problem with that kind of freedom at all and we both seem to agree on that. "Also free will does not exist because the will is never free from that which determines it." Yes, I completely agree with you. This position of yours did not become clear to me from your earlier posts. It had seemed to me that you expected some part of our motivations to be somehow free from determination. THAT was the part that has no logical basis. But I realize that that was obviously a misunderstanding on my part. "Remember even if you don’t think that the existence of life is the result of a designer this does not mean your choices are not determined as well, they are.[...]Keep in mind like you I am a determinist" Yes, I absolutely agree that all my choices, and thus my "will" are determined. That realization is an integral part of my philosophical world view. I find it very fascinating and refreshing to talk to a theist who has the same view! You & I may think "When it comes to free will we all are “determinists” whether we know it or not.", but so far, all of my theist friends have disagreed with me on that and insisted that there is, somehow, a free will in all humans. Generally the theist reason for this assumption, that I have encountered, was that if their choices are determined, including the one most important to them - to obey god - then they are really just a puppet on strings, playing out a script. And most theists seem to immensely dislike that idea, probably because it calls into question the concept of eternal reward or punishment. But there are plenty of atheistic philosophers who seem to be just as uncomfortable with the reality of determined choices. From the human perspective though, the script is so immensely intricate that the outcome can only be known to the (omniscient) director, not the actors. Or, from the perspective of someone like me, the outcome is known to nobody, since the "director" is simply nature, taking it's course. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, and dig down to the gritty details! I am looking forward to more discussions with you!!!molch
August 9, 2010
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Hi Molch hope you had a great weekend. I took the time to read all your posts on this thread and let me summarize what I think are your two main points. 1) You don’t think that a designed creature can have free will. (#85) 2) You do not see a logical path to the contrary (#85) Lets take them one at a time. “You don’t think that a designed creature can have free will.” By now you know that it is my position that free will does not exist, it’s a classic oxymoron. No one has the ability to make choices free from constraints #66. This is so obvious that I wont spend any time marshalling evidence as to why that is. Also free will does not exist because the will is never free from that which determines it. To will is to choose, to say the will is free is no different than saying nothing causes ( determines) the choice. It is to argue that effects have no causes. When it comes to free will we all are “determinists” whether we know it or not. However , to repeat myself, to say there is no free will is not to say that there is not free choice. Our wills can be, indeed must be determined, and our choices can still be free. Free choice is the ability ( within certain constraints) to choose whatever we most want given the options available to us at the moment the choice is made. What can be more free than the freedom to choose what we want to choose? Evidently you do not see a logical path to this conclusion ( your second point). I must say the logical problem escapes me and you have not yet demonstrated where my position is illogical. Remember even if you don’t think that the existence of life is the result of a designer this does not mean your choices are not determined as well, they are. RE 101 “So, does that not mean that you attribute a person’s genes to some combination of design and inheritance? And inheritance, of course, is a deterministic process with random copying errors. That means that either design or necessity or random luck caused the genetic differences (or a combination thereof) between people.” I want to be clear the difference between self choices are more than just genetic differences. With that caveat out of the way yes I am in general agreement to the above. Keep in mind like you I am a determinist :) Vividvividbleau
August 8, 2010
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"Vivid – just a quick notice: I have to leave for the weekend" Godspeed!! :) Vividvividbleau
August 6, 2010
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Vivid - just a quick notice: I have to leave for the weekend, but would enjoy to continue the discussion on Monday, if you are still interested - looking forward to find an answer upon my return! Happy weekend! :)molch
August 6, 2010
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"I believe that life owes its existence to a designer." So, does that not mean that you attribute a person's genes to some combination of design and inheritance? And inheritance, of course, is a deterministic process with random copying errors. That means that either design or necessity or random luck caused the genetic differences (or a combination thereof) between people.molch
August 6, 2010
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"Genetics falls under 3) variations that are inherent in a person, which you would characterize as designed. Right?" I believe that life owes its existence to a designer. Vividvividbleau
August 6, 2010
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ooops, I cut the quote off, I meant to quote the whole sentence: "IF the selfs are different. Who/what makes them different? Culture, upbringing, family, genetics, the list is endless."molch
August 6, 2010
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", genetics, the list is endless." Ok - looks like we are getting somewhere!!! Culture, upbringing, and family are factors that fall, in my categorization of causes in #75 under 2)"evidence evaluations". Genetics falls under 3) variations that are inherent in a person, which you would characterize as designed. Right?molch
August 6, 2010
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"Sure I chose to do the posting." Which makes you the cause of the choice. You made a self determind choice. Self determined choices are not causeless choices. "See, that’s the problem. The self can only be the cause for those diffences IF the selfs are different." Of course the self's are different in the sense that different selfs have different wants. "IF the selfs are different. Who/what makes them different?" Culture, upbringing, family, genetics, the list is endless. "Or are those differences uncaused and therefore random?" To say something is random does not mean something is uncaused. Vividvividbleau
August 6, 2010
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"You chose to post your position on this thread, did you determine to do the posting? If not who or what did?" Sure I chose to do the posting. I had reasons for that choice (=I had evaluated evidence that motivated me to choose to post) - mostly that I could improve my own insight into the concept and existence of free will by discussing it with people of different philosophical commitments. "The cause is the self." See, that's the problem. The self can only be the cause for those diffences IF the selfs are different. Who/what makes them different? Or are those differences uncaused and therefore random?molch
August 6, 2010
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Molch, I guess we could just agree to disagree however I have given you the cause. The cause is the self. It is the most want of the self that determines ( causes) their choices. Do you reject that individuals make self determined choices? You chose to post your position on this thread, did you determine to do the posting? If not who or what did? Vividvividbleau
August 6, 2010
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Vivid, sorry if I confused you with the hook analogy - I just meant that you still hadn't provided a cause for the differences in the motivations/wants/selfs that make them choose different things. You still haven't. So at this point, instead of running in circles, we could just agree to disagree - what do you think?molch
August 6, 2010
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"Either way, this formulation still does not let you off the hook" What hook? I did not realize I was even on a hook :) Is this an example of what I wrote in 71? "Often times two people can look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions. Difference in choices are based on their perception of the set of the evidence thay are evaluating. There are “filters” that evidence goes through so to speak." You see me on a hook and I have no idea what hook I am on. "why do these “most wants” or motivations differ between the selfs?" Your asking me why someone is motivated to choose chocolate ice cream and another is motivated to choose vanilla? "What’s the origin of those differences?" The self. The one self chose chocolate because that is the flavor they most wanted given the options available at the moment the choice was made. The other chose vanilla because that is the flavor they most wanted given the options available at the moment the choice was made. Vividvividbleau
August 5, 2010
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vivid: quick reply to you also: "Obviously these “most wants” differ from one self to another since what one self most wants may be what the other self “most” does not want." It actually seems you are just rephrasing "motivations" into "most wants" here. Either way, this formulation still does not let you off the hook: why do these "most wants" or motivations differ between the selfs? What's the origin of those differences?molch
August 5, 2010
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Hi JDH - welcome to the party! only briefly, because I have to run to another meeting: "I think I have an answer for you, but you will not like it." I don't have any problem with your answer, it is a similar answer I have received from many people of faith. It, if I may paraphrase, amounts to that you simply believe something to be possible that my logic says is not. But the problem (the impossibility upon which we disagree), contrary to your assumption, is NOT for "God to design something which [...] can actually choose not to obey him." I don't have a logical problem with that possibility at all. I can choose not to obey god either because he/she designed me not to, or because the evidence suggests that it's advantageous for me not to. The problem is, as might become more clear if you follow the exchange between myself and vivid, that any choice of yours, e.g. the one to obey or disobey god, must be based on/caused by SOMETHING. If it's not design, and if it's not evidence, then what is it? The only equivalent I can come up with for the "free" in free choice as you use it would be "uncaused"?molch
August 5, 2010
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Molch: Sorry I am late to the party, but I think I have an answer for you, but you will not like it. You said
I glean from this discussion that the ID camp operates under the assumption that designed creatures in a designed universe have free will? how so?
The ID camp has an advantage. We believe in a designer of much greater ability than ourselves. We are not reductionist. Your problem is that when you say designer, you are thinking in terms of human designers. I work in the computer field. I will fully admit that I can not design a computer program which has free choice. It must only respond to inputs. I can not design something which will go against its programming. ( Maybe others can I am not aware of much of the AI field ). But I do not believe in a designer with our human limitations. So it is possible for God ( yes, I will name my designer ) to design something which has some amount of free choice and can actually choose not to obey him. I accept this by faith. But don't you see that your ( implied ) conclusion that a designed object in a designed universe can not have free will - is a religious statement. It is not a logical premise-conclusion. it is a metaphysical statement on the abilities ( or lack there of ) of the designer. If you can not comprehend what I am talking about, just assume you are a sphere. You visit a two dimensional land. You can easily move up and down in the two dimensional plane and even move out of it altogether, but can not change you shape. You have befriended someone who lives in the plane. He claims that you have the ability to change your size and to completely disappear if you want to. Now you try and explain to him that you can't. You have no words that he can comprehend which explain to him that your perceived ability to change your size is nothing more than movement in the third dimension. There is no way to explain this. Try as hard as you can, you can not explain movement in the third dimension because for your friend in the two dimensional world, the third dimension does not exist. He, however, can choose to believe you by faith. This is the way I envisage God trying to explain to us that we are created by him and yet have our own free will. We can only accept it by faith. If we try to reason it out, we run into our limitations, not His.JDH
August 5, 2010
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Have fun at the beach! This is good timing, since I have to run to a number of meetings and probably won't be able to post til tomorrow morning - that'll give me time to ponder your crazy-making answers! :)molch
August 5, 2010
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"Thanks. No matter the outcome, I enjoy our respectful and informative discussion!" Me too!! Quite refreshing no? "So what then in the self is it that causes these motivations, if it’s not the design?" I know this will drive you crazy and I dont meant it to but the cause of these motivations are the "most wants" of the self. :) Obviously these "most wants" differ from one self to another since what one self most wants may be what the other self "most" does not want. Off to the beach but I will have access to the internet but no replys until I get back. Vividvividbleau
August 5, 2010
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"I respect your opinion as well." Thanks. No matter the outcome, I enjoy our respectful and informative discussion! "It is true that if I was not designed to have self motivations I could not have self motivations. This does not mean that logically the motivations are “caused” by the designer. What is “caused” by the designer is the ability of the self to have its own motivations." So what then in the self is it that causes these motivations, if it's not the design?molch
August 5, 2010
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“My point is, as my original question indicated, that I don’t think that the idea of humans as designed cretures in a designed universe allows for “free will” or “free choice”, whatever you want to call it, unless we are just talking about freedom from coercion.” As I have already stated there is no such thing as free will. Now I do hold that we have free choice in the sense that we are free to choose whatever we most want. What can be more free than that? “That does not mean that I don’t respect your opinion that there is a self that somehow can make choices independent from evidence or predesigned motivations (lots of philosophers and non-design theorists share that opinion with you).” I respect your opinion as well. “That’s were you go back in a circle, because you just defined that self as designed, thus, if the motivation comes from inside that self, it logically must be caused by the design of that same self.” I make a distinction between designed motivations and designed self. The self is designed to have its own motivations. These motivations are the selfs motivations not the designers motivations. I am free to make choices that may or may not be the same choices the designer would make. The same goes for motivations. My motivations are mine not the designers. It is true that if I was not designed to have self motivations I could not have self motivations. This does not mean that logically the motivations are “caused” by the designer. What is “caused” by the designer is the ability of the self to have its own motivations. Vividvividbleau
August 5, 2010
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Sorry about the posting confusion - I'll try to get all my thoughts into one post and wait for your answer, so we don't get crossed! :) My point is, as my original question indicated, that I don't think that the idea of humans as designed cretures in a designed universe allows for "free will" or "free choice", whatever you want to call it, unless we are just talking about freedom from coercion. That does not mean that I don't respect your opinion that there is a self that somehow can make choices independent from evidence or predesigned motivations (lots of philosophers and non-design theorists share that opinion with you). I am basically trying to get to the heart of the matter to see if there is a LOGICAL path to that opinion. So far I'm not seeing one. But again, that doesn't mean I don't respect it... Back to business: “What is the origin of these motivations, then?” Self" That's were you go back in a circle, because you just defined that self as designed, thus, if the motivation comes from inside that self, it logically must be caused by the design of that same self.molch
August 5, 2010
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Sorry - 83 was a repsonse to 81 - response to 82 will follow!molch
August 5, 2010
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Since you just excluded 3) from #75 as an explanation for the origin of the motivations (which would have been that they are designed), I see only 1) or 2) left. Or is there a 4) I am not thinking of?molch
August 5, 2010
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"What is the origin of these motivations, then?" Self Vividvividbleau
August 5, 2010
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"If the motivations are a property of the designed self, then they are designed, by definition. Correct?" I am designed to have self motivations. Molch perhaps we can make more progress if you just communicate the point you are trying to make. Vividvividbleau
August 5, 2010
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So you are basically saying that although the self that has these motivations is designed, the motivations themselves are not. What is the origin of these motivations, then?molch
August 5, 2010
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To me to say that motivations are designed means that my motivations are the designers motivations. To say we are designed to have "self" motivations means they are my motivations. Vividvividbleau
August 5, 2010
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If the motivations are a property of the designed self, then they are designed, by definition. Correct?molch
August 5, 2010
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