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Phineas Gage: Evolution of a lecture room psychopath

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I was at dinner the other week with a voluble atheist religion professor who, in defense of a materialist view of the human mind, raised the subject of Phineas Gage (1823-1860). Ah yes, the man whose personality changed completely after a horrific accident, a staple of Introductory Psychology.

Anyone who has taken Psychology 101 or read popular neuroscience books has probably heard Gage’s story, which upholds the “frontal lobe” theory of personality. (= You are your frontal lobes.)

The story is that in 1848, a tamping rod went through Gage’s head and totally changed his personality. He was “no longer Gage.” Which demonstrates that the mind and the self are an illusion created by the buzz of neurons in the brain. A textbook case.

I pointed out over dinner that there are good reasons to doubt this story. The prof was, of course, withering. Hundreds and hundreds of psych texts have told Gage’s story, he informed me, so how could it be false or questionable?

Well, I have written for newspapers most of my adult life, and one thing I know is this: Printing more copies of any type of information does not make it true. It makes it more widely disseminated.

A distant relative of the Textbook Case sent me an article by University of London historian Zbigniew Kotowicz, “The strange case of Phineas Gage,” History of the Human Sciences (Vol. 20 No. 1, pp. 115-131), which offers the story you and six hundred others in Psych 101 may not have heard.

First, let’s go over exactly what happened: Gage, 25, was foreman of a gang blowing away rock to lay rail for the Rutland & Burlington Railroad near Cavendish, Vermont. Gage’s job was laying explosives. On September 13, 1848, he was momentarily distracted, and the explosive detonated, pushing the tamping rod through his head. The rod was 5.9 kg (13.25 lb.), 1.05 m (over 3.5 ft) long and 44.45 mm (1.75 in) across. As Kotowicz tells the story,

It entered beneath his left cheek, passed behind the eye, pierced the base of the skull, went through the front of the brain, and fell on the ground over 100 feet (30.4 m) away. Covered in blood and brains.

Remarkably, Gage did not lose consciousness. He was able to move and speak. He took about two months to heal. He finished his recovery at his mother’s home where, Harlow recounts, he entertained his nephews and nieces with fanciful tales, and looked after farm and domestic animals.

In all, three contemporary reports were written about Gage in professional journals:

1) A report given to a medical audience by his doctor John Harlow, three months after the incident. The famous passage in physician Harlow’s account of the changed personality (“no longer Gage”) referred to that period and not to the rest of his life. More on that presently.

2) A report by Harvard surgeon Henry Bigelow, who observed Gage over a period of two months somewhat more than a year later and took a life mask of his face (pictured above). According to Bigelow, Gage was calm, “talking with composure and equanimity of the hole in his head.” and his behaviour did not fit the profile of a psychopath.

3) A report by Harlow seven years after Gage’s death, based on information from his family.

The lecture room legend

And after that? After his death, Gage slowly morphed into the lecture room legend. According to Kotowicz,

… most of the subsequent descriptions of Gage were based on hearsay. Some of them were quite florid; Gage was portrayed as having fits of temper when not getting his own way, as being disinclined to work, as having a reduced libido, as being an aimless drifter and so on. A typical description of him would say that before the accident Gage had been a diligent, reliable, polite and socially adept person: after his accident, he subsequently became uncaring, profane and socially inappropriate in his conduct.

For example, at Neurophilosophy, we learn:

Thus, the damage to Gage’s frontal cortex had resulted in a complete loss of social inhibitions, which often led to inappropriate behaviour.

The documentary evidence

Kotowicz begs to differ:

However, after examining closely the accounts of Phineas Gage as given by the doctors who knew him, Harlow and Bigelow, one must conclude that the supposed psychopathic traits are not evident.

The drastic discntinuity was not so much between Phineas Gage pre- and post-tamping rod but between Phineas Gage (1823-1860) and the lecture room legend.

What we can learn from contemporary accounts of Gage’s post-trauma life is this: For a while after the accident, he drifted, and even ended up briefly in P. T. Barnum’s freak show, exhibiting himself and the tamping rod. But he then settled down and worked a year and a half in a stable. Later, he went with a friend to Valparaiso in Chile where he cared for horses and drove a coach and six for eight years.

Kotowicz points out the obvious,

Working in stables is not a job for a psychopath. Horses are very sensitive and they require discipline and calm; they have to be attended to regularly, seven days a week, and work begins early.

 

(They are also apt to bite, kick, rear, and stampede, if startled or abused.)

Of course, Gage had been catastrophically injured, and about twelve years later, the effects caught up with him. By February 1860, back from Chile, he continued to try to work on farms while living with or near his mother, who had moved to San Francisco. But he began to have frequent epileptic convulsions. They worsened, and he died on May 21, 1860. No autopsy was performed, but Harlow later exhumed the body and recovered Gage’s skull and the tamping rod.

What no one stopped to think about

Kotowicz’s account diverges still further from the lecture room legend:

… what is really amazing is that none of the many who comment on the case seem to have ever stopped for a moment to think what Gage might have looked like after the accident.

A team of researchers using modern computer techniques decided to try to reconstruct his post-accident face, “borrowing” the face of a student whose life mask looks like the one taken of Gage by Bigelow. (A life mask gives a correct image of shape but not of facial mobility.)
The reconstruction they provide would certainly startle a new acquaintance. Kotowicz contends that, to the extent that Gage was unsettled, it was probably mainly due to his horrifying disfigurement and not to psychopathic tendencies:

First he meets his workmates. Their attitude towards him has changed; now they turn their eyes away, they are not the same easygoing fellows; and the girls do not laugh and flirt with him as they did. And if there was some lassie that he was particularly fond of, well . . . all this must be really difficult to take. Someone will look at him, and we can imagine him snapping back, ‘What are you staring at, you bastard?’ And there are also those who are only too ready to give advice, but giving advice to someone in Gage’s predicament is a risky business. Again, we can imagine him telling them to go to hell. Very ungrateful; definitely, to ‘his friends and acquaintances’ he is ‘“no longer Gage”’. It is different at home, at his mother’s, where the final recovery takes place. He entertains his nephews and nieces by making up fantastic stories; they must love Uncle Phineas, and they do not care about his scars. He also grows fond of pets, especially dogs and horses. Animals not only do not care about his scars, they do not even see them. Gage quickly becomes attached to them. But the outside world of adults cannot be ignored. Gage needs to go back to work. And here comes the first tangible blow: he is not wanted back …”

But he must work; he is a working man.

“As we have seen, Gage finds employment in a stable. Work is hard but it is most likely Gage does not mind, he probably shuns others and keeps to himself (and who in his place wouldn’t?). It may well be that like many before him and many since, he has decided that he is better off in the company of animals than fellow humans. For the rest of his life he will work with horses. After work in the stable, Gage leaves for Chile to set up a coachline. He is ‘occupied in caring for horses, and often driving a coach heavily laden and drawn by six horses’ (ibid.: 415). This means he has strength, dexterity and an excellent relationship with the animals; Gage has evidently mastered his metier.

And, as we have seen, he worked right up to the end.

But, as we have also seen, psych profs didn’t need a working man who had independently adapted to his disability; they needed an aimless drifter, so,

… the image of Gage the psychopath has emerged; he is a contemporary construct. Harlow’s words telling us that the ‘equilibrium or balance, so to speak, between his intellectual faculties and animal propensities, seems to have been destroyed’, that he indulged ‘in the grossest profanity’ and that he was ‘no longer Gage’ are now routinely quoted, but nothing else about him is ever mentioned. In the myopic vision of the neurosciences, Phineas Gage has been reduced to a witless psychopath. It seems that the growing commitment to the frontal lobe doctrine of emotions brought Gage to the limelight and shapes how he is described. The psychopath Phineas Gage has now entered scientific folklore; according to a calculation from recent years (Macmillan, 2002: 333) some 60 per cent of psychology textbooks quote it as one of the first cases where personality change occurred after damage to the frontal lobes.

So Kotowicz asks, a century and a half – and hundreds of textbooks – later

Was this a life of a psychopath? Did be behave dismally? One neuroscientist claims that ‘Gage lost something uniquely human, the ability to plan his future as a social being’ (Damasio, 1994: 19). He asks, ‘Did he have a sense of right and wrong?’ (ibid.: 18), which is nothing short of asking whether he had a soul, and he wonders whether Gage was ‘responsible for his acts’ (ibid.). This is a slur on the dead man’s good name. Harlow does not report a single act that Gage should have been ashamed of, let alone made ‘responsible’ for. There is no mention of violence, theft, abuse; not even something as vague as ‘irresponsibility’. There is coherence and dignity in the way Gage dealt with his predicament. He deserves deep respect.

Gage indeed deserves deep respect. The materialist psychology texts routinely purveying false knowledge (“the things we know that ain’t so”) – not so much.

In recent years, the Gage industry has become more nuanced, perhaps in line with a less materialist emphasis on the mind, though many kind readers of this b log doubtless took Intro Psych before that change occurred.

Resources

Here’s the abstract:

History of the Human Sciences, Vol. 20, No. 1, 115-131 (2007) DOI: 10.1177/0952695106075178

The strange case of Phineas Gage
Zbigniew Kotowicz
Department of History, Goldsmiths College, London, z.kotowicz@gold.ac.uk

The 19th-century story of Phineas Gage is much quoted in neuroscientific literature as the first recorded case in which personality change (from polite and sociable to psychopathic) occurred after damage to the brain. In this article I contest this interpretation. From a close examination of the story of Gage I have come to conclude that first of all there was nothing psychopathic in Gage’s behavior and that changes in his life are more coherently explained by seeing them as his way of dealing with disfigurement that he suffered after the accident. This is not just a matter of reinterpreting a case. The way Gage has been presented and discussed in neuroscientific literature suggests that the new paradigm of neuroscientifically oriented psychiatry may lead to an erosion of clinical knowledge.

Key Words: brain damage • clinical experience • disfigurement • neurosciences

Here is another Gage scholar, Malcolm Macmillan of Deakin University School of Psychology in Victoria, Australia, where he maintains a Phineas Gage page. He writes:

Most of the accounts of Gage’s life after 1848 are strange mixtures of slight fact, considerable fancy, and downright fabrication.

He deals with unanswered questions here.

Images of the injury to Gage’s skull

Discussions in journals over the years are here. Here’s a typical modern materialist account.

More stuff we know that ain’t so: 19th century Christians opposed anaesthetics in childbirth; Mediaeval people thought Earth was flat; Copernicus demoted Earth from the centre of the universe.

Comments
I used to walk around slapping plants and leaves. Untill last month i slapped some torn, hurt my finger and so i completely stopped doing that. Funny, this lesion didnt even hurt my brain, but still, my behaviour changed. I wonder what would have happened to me if i had a torn stucked into my head, id rethink a lot of stuff, would probably change my mind and personality somehow...MaxAug
March 30, 2009
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skeech wrote:
You have a very limited appreciation of sex if you think it is pleasurable only because of nerve endings in certain areas of the body.
I certainly don't, but then again, I'm not a materialist. A true materialist cannot believe that things can be experienced outside of neural activity. For something to be perceived by a person (or any creature, for that matter), it must first be detected in some way by sensory organs and transmitted to the brain via neurons. To imply some sort of transcendence from a pleasurable act denies materialism. Now, to state that "[s]ex is pleasurable because individuals who take pleasure in it tend to leave more offspring" is to skip a whole bunch of neural engineering that must occur for this to be true. It's a circular argument, hence my "chicken-and-egg" statement. It's also untrue. Microorganisms, which make up most of the biomass on the planet, have no brain so they can't experience any pleasure or pain. The asexual ones reproduce just as fast or faster than the sexual ones. Thornhill and Palmer have told us that rape (definitely unpleasant sex) evolved and continues to exist in all human cultures because it was more successful from an overall evolutionary viewpoint than courtship was. As a materialist, you surely agree with this, correct?angryoldfatman
March 28, 2009
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That kind of throws a monkey wrench into brain-as-computer idea. I suggest anybody drive a steel spike *anywhere* through their computer, I can almost guarantee that their complaints won't be just confined to "Excel just doesn't want to save for me anymore."jjcassidy
March 27, 2009
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I once briefly met a man who was being cared for by a friend of mine. The man had attempted to kill himself by placing a loaded gun in his mouth. The bullet effectively gave him a lobotomy. I had not met the man before this event, but it is hard to imagine he had the same personality before the shot went off. Also, I have not studied psychology. That being said, in the case illustrated by O'Leary, she does make some very good points. The best, in my view, is this:
I have written for newspapers most of my adult life, and one thing I know is this: Printing more copies of any type of information does not make it true. It makes it more widely disseminated.
Indeed, even first person accounts of qualitatively described events are as much a reflection of the accounter's bias as they are of the events being recounted.William Wallace
March 27, 2009
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AOFM, You have a very limited appreciation of sex if you think it is pleasurable only because of nerve endings in certain areas of the body.skeech
March 27, 2009
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skeech wrote:
Sex is pleasurable because individuals who take pleasure in it tend to leave more offspring.
Sex is pleasurable because a certain number of nerve endings are in certain areas of the body. Thus you present a chicken-and-egg sort of problem.angryoldfatman
March 27, 2009
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David Kellogg wrote:
angryoldfatman, the case is similar in that in both cases the amount of brain loss is guessed at rather than measured
What better measure is there besides the brain scans? You can see with your own eyes what the scan shows. I can't tell you how many times I was shown Terri Shiavo's brain scans as an example of consciousness being directly related to brain tissue. Her scans showed much more brain tissue than these pitiful things. And we all remember her state, and that she was starved and dehydrated to death because she didn't have enough brain to think. I guess Mr. French Social Worker needs to be euthanized ASAP.
but in the Lancet study even that guess shows less loss than the older study.
No it doesn't.
Such cases support high developmental plasticity in the brain rather than an immaterial mind.
Are you telling us the current scientific dogma about us being born with all of the brain cells we'll ever have is wrong? If not, why do we have so much useless brain matter? Look at Phineas Gage, for example. How much of his brain did he lose, and yet he went on to perform as well or better than human beings possessing all of the brain matter they were born with?angryoldfatman
March 27, 2009
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Oramus asks:
following your logic why did we evolve a craving for cocaine, heroin, caffeine, nicotine, sex (for pleasure), ambulence chasing (adrenaline?), kleptomania (again adrenaline maybe?)
You're lumping a lot of things together there. Sex is pleasurable because individuals who take pleasure in it tend to leave more offspring. The reward system in the brain that makes sex (and eating and socializing and music) pleasurable can be directly stimulated by drugs, which is why addictions occur.
How does evolutionary theory demonstrate empirically the survival benefits of these addictions?
Addictions are not beneficial, though the reward system that gives rise to them is.
You mention evolving a tendency? I’m not being facetious here. But how does a tendency evolve, a craving? What are the mechanisms? I find it to be an unsurmountable problem for TOE.
Back to the sex example. Imagine you have a population of animals. Some of them like sex and engage in it often. The others hate sex and avoid it at all costs. Which group will leave more offspring, on average? What will happen to the population over time? Repeat this over many generations, and your population evolves a craving for sex -- just like humans.
More so, how about suicide? In this case NS doesn’t even have a chance to raise its club in protest. How does an organism know 1) that it is unfit and 2)that it should terminate itself for the good of the group?
I'm not sure where you got the idea that organisms commonly do either of those things. Could you elaborate?skeech
March 26, 2009
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angryoldfatman, the case is similar in that in both cases the amount of brain loss is guessed at rather than measured, but in the Lancet study even that guess shows less loss than the older study. The subjects in these cases developed the condition in early childhood. Such cases support high developmental plasticity in the brain rather than an immaterial mind. The recent article has produced just a few citations (not surprising given that it's just a single case report), but one of those suggests a material explanation for the retention of brain function. See Masdeu et al., Ventricular Wall Granulations and Draining of Cerebrospinal Fluid in Chronic Giant Hydrocephalus, Archives of Neurology 66.2 (2009): 262-267.David Kellogg
March 26, 2009
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David Kellogg wrote:
mentok [31], that article almost three decades old. As the article admits, the scans of the time were pretty poor and ambiguous. What does the much better current scanning technology say about such cases?
The article mentok linked also mentioned a practically identical case from 2 years ago, with pictures of the scans. I linked earlier in the thread to a New Scientist article about the same case. The phenomenon can't be dismissed as just a mistake or an urban legend.angryoldfatman
March 26, 2009
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Denyse, the key point JTaylor made was this:
that there is a well-established body of knowledge which shows a causal link between Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) and behavioral and personality changes (and long-term at that).
If this is true, then JTaylor is right. Frankly, I've never heard anyone make the case for materialism based on Gage. I've heard people use it to discuss brain localization, but that's a different thing.David Kellogg
March 26, 2009
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JTaylor, I am glad I came back one last time. You write: "Bottom line is that even if the Gage story is wrong it does not show what is currently known about TBI. Whether Gage is true or not does not invalidate or falsify this, although O’Leary seems to imply this and I guess hopes it will stick." Spoken like a true Darwinist!! It is clearly of NO consequence to you that the story is probably false - as long as it fronts your agenda. You are not ashamed of the hundreds of false stories fronted about this man. No, I did not think you would be. Would you raise a single objection to the next imposition on students about Phineas Gage? Trashing the good name of an honest man who coped surprising well with a catastrophic disability is a small price to pay for fronting the truth that we are but naked apes. I will make a post of this, I swear.O'Leary
March 26, 2009
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Denyse O'Leary said @48 "If there is a neuroscience version of National Center for Science Education, someone is sure to be testifying that the Gage legend is critical to science." I hope instead the text book says that there is a well-established body of knowledge which shows a causal link between Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) and behavioral and personality changes (and long-term at that). If they talk about the Gage case perhaps they might say that this is an illustrative case, although recent research shows that there is some mythology attached. Bottom line is that even if the Gage story is wrong it does not show what is currently known about TBI. Whether Gage is true or not does not invalidate or falsify this, although O'Leary seems to imply this and I guess hopes it will stick.JTaylor
March 26, 2009
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skeech - thanks for the book recommendation. I will probably get it and read it. I still think that by definition materialism is in contradiction with the concept of free will. At this point in my understanding, I don't see how one can believe in no purpose, but at the same time believe in purposeful actions. To me it just does not make sense.JDH
March 26, 2009
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I'm moving on to other stories now, but for me the big fun will be the future textbooks that merely repeat the Phineas Gage lecture room legend verbatim from other books. If there is a neuroscience version of National Center for Science Education, someone is sure to be testifying that the Gage legend is critical to science.O'Leary
March 26, 2009
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WHD wrote [43]:
If much of the brain is redundant, then why didn’t we evolve the same cognitive abilities without developing larger brains? Redundancy carries hidden costs. Big brains make it difficult for human babies to pass through the birth canal, which, historically, has resulted in heavy casualties—many mothers and babies have died during delivery. Why should the selective advantage of bigger brains with lots of redundancy outweigh the selective advantage of easier births due to smaller brains that, nonetheless, exercise the same cognitive functions, though with lowered redundancy? There are many deep questions here. Evolutionists may be right that large complex brains have an inherent selective advantage. But that has yet to be established. It remains an open question how our higher mental capacities (such as composing a symphony or proving a deep mathematical theorem) relate to the size and structure of our brains.
You seem to be saying that vestigal organs are evidence for intelligent design (with the brain supposedly the ultimate vestigal organ). Or let me restate that: You think that a huge cumbersome organ of questionable utility and huge costs is more consistent with an intelligent designer than with evolution. But supposing that it were discovered that the brain was completely useless. Where would we look next to explain cognition? It would have to be something that could be physically measured and observed. Or would brain research become the domain of paranormal studies? Just a guess, but it wouldn't seem surprising if cognition was distributed throughout the entire nervous network of the body to a greater degree than previously supposed. But the conclusion of Lorber was apparently that brain matter was being compressed, not lost. Here are some quotes from the article that mentok provided [31]:
Although anecdotal accounts may be found in medical literature, Lorber is the first to provide a systematic study of such cases. He has documented over 600 scans of people with hydrocephalus and has broken them into four groups: those with nearly normal brains those with 50-70% of the cranium filled with cerebrospinal fluid those with 70-90% of the cranium filled with cerebrospinal fluid and the most severe group with 95% of the cranial cavity filled with cerebrospinal fluid. Of the last group, which comprised less than 10% of the study, half were profoundly retarded.
Note that it does not say that 600 people functioned perfectly well with hardly any brain. It only talks about the last group. And also, it doesn't state at all how much brain was lost - only what percentage of the cranium was filled with fluid. This is signficant because there are subsequent quotes to the effect that the brain tissue was merely being compressed. Given that the brain is an amorphous blob, it hardly seems its gross 3-D structure would be integral to its function, so some signficant distortion of this amorphous shape might not have any impact at all.
"When you implant a shunt in a young hydrocephalic child you often see complete restoration of overall brain structure, even in cases where initially there is no detectable mantle,"claims Lorber. "There must be true regeneration of brain substance in some sense, but I'm not necessarily saying that nerve cells regenerate,"he says cautiously; "I don't think anyone knows fully about that." What, then, is happening when a hydrocephalic brain rebounds from being a thin layer lining a fluid-filled cranium to become an apparently normal structure when released from hydrostatic pressure? According to Epstein and on the basis of his colleagues' observations on experimental cats, the term rebound aptly describes the reconstitution process, with stretched fibres shortening, thus diminishing the previously expanded ventricular space.
...
Lorber himself acknowledges that the "Virtually no brain" claim was hyperbolic: "As to the question "Is your brain really necessary?" Lorber admits that it is only half serious. "You have to be dramatic in order to make people listen." So Lorber used the tongue-in-cheek hyperbole to shock the medical community. He didn't intend it as a strict scientific claim.
JT
March 25, 2009
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Thx Skeetch for your comments. following your logic why did we evolve a craving for cocaine, heroin, caffeine, nicotine, sex (for pleasure), ambulence chasing (adrenaline?), kleptomania (again adrenaline maybe?) How does evolutionary theory demonstrate empirically the survival benefits of these addictions? We can make plausible explanations as to how they could, in some fashion, contribute. But all I've seen are explanations stretched way thin. You mention evolving a tendency? I'm not being facetious here. But how does a tendency evolve, a craving? What are the mechanisms? I find it to be an unsurmountable problem for TOE. More so, how about suicide? In this case NS doesn't even have a chance to raise its club in protest. How does an organism know 1) that it is unfit and 2)that it should terminate itself for the good of the group?Oramus
March 25, 2009
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While I can't vouch for personality change, a 14 year old boy lost half his brain in a shooting. In the video he seems normal and happy - it's truly shocking how much of his head and brain is actually missing. According to the video one half was removed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK6gmZNdKNo&feature=relatedAnimateclay
March 25, 2009
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JayM @12: Dualism doesn't hold that brains and minds are independent. There's clearly interaction. But it does hold that one is not reducible to the other. I perhaps didn't make my point as clear as I might have. A materialist can, obviously, affirm that certain brain injuries don't transform personality (e.g., injury to some motor center). But sufficiently extensive brain damage (of the sort Phineas Gage experienced?), if unaccompanied by radical personality change, would count as evidence against brain-mind identity (which is what the materialist affirms and requires). Cf. the following passage from ch. 1 of THE DESIGN OF LIFE (www.thedesignoflife.com):
Reliable reports exist of people exhibiting remarkable cognitive function with very much reduced brain matter. For instance, anthropologist Roger Lewin reported a case study by John Lorber, a British neurologist and professor at Sheffield University: “There’s a young student at this university,” says Lorber, “who has an IQ of 126, has gained a first-class honors degree in mathematics, and is socially completely normal. And yet the boy has virtually no brain.” The student’s physician at the university noticed that the youth had a slightly larger than normal head, and so referred him to Lorber, simply out of interest. “When we did a brain scan on him,” Lorber recalls, “we saw that instead of the normal 4.5-centimeter thickness of brain tissue between the ventricles and the cortical surface, there was just a thin layer of mantle measuring a millimeter or so. His cranium is filled mainly with cerebrospinal fluid.” Or consider the case of pioneer microbiologist Louis Pasteur. As historian of science Stanley Jaki remarks, A brain may largely be deteriorated and still function in an outstanding way.... A famous case is that of Pasteur, who at the height of his career suffered a cerebral accident, and yet for many years afterwards did research requiring a high level of abstraction and remained in full possession of everything he learned during his first forty some years. Only the autopsy following his death revealed that he had lived and worked for years with literally one half of his brain, the other half being completely atrophied. Evolutionists, when confronted with such anomalies, will often remark that the brain contains lots of redundancy. Lorber himself concludes that “there must be a tremendous amount of redundancy or spare capacity in the brain, just as there is with kidney and liver.” But that raises another problem. If much of the brain is redundant, then why didn’t we evolve the same cognitive abilities without developing larger brains? Redundancy carries hidden costs. Big brains make it difficult for human babies to pass through the birth canal, which, historically, has resulted in heavy casualties—many mothers and babies have died during delivery. Why should the selective advantage of bigger brains with lots of redundancy outweigh the selective advantage of easier births due to smaller brains that, nonetheless, exercise the same cognitive functions, though with lowered redundancy? There are many deep questions here. Evolutionists may be right that large complex brains have an inherent selective advantage. But that has yet to be established. It remains an open question how our higher mental capacities (such as composing a symphony or proving a deep mathematical theorem) relate to the size and structure of our brains. Evolutionists generally regard mind as simply a function of electro-chemical activity in the brain. But this materialist assumption (that mind is reducible to brain) remains for now without empirical support. What we have are correlations between brain images and conscious mental states. What we do not have is a causal mechanism relating the two.
William Dembski
March 25, 2009
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Some poor folks like my late bro were tormented by addiction. No matter what he tried he couldn’t defeat it. Thinking about that for so long, and getting into these ID/ND debates in the past year, I’m thinking how does the genome that is me, if there is no duality, seemingly fight itself. It makes no sense. The brain should, in the interest of preserving itself, override any conflicting signals generated by other parts of the brain, that apparently waive any authority to control the desire of any single body part?
Oramus, Evolutionary theory does not predict that humans (or any other animal species) will behave optimally in all possible circumstances. Humans evolved in environments in which drugs were unavailable, so resistance to addiction was not selected for. Vigorous physical activity was a necessity and food was scarce, so we evolved a tendency to crave high-energy fats and carbohydrates. These characteristics don't serve us well today, but that is no surprise. Evolution has no foresight. It couldn't possibly have anticipated the society we live in today, where drugs, fats and sweets are all readily available and vigorous physical activity is largely optional.skeech
March 25, 2009
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Previous post got cut off...let's try again... Berceuse said @28: “Who said the soul was immutable?” You’re right - I’m not who said it. In fact I’m not even sure what the soul is or isn’t. Christianity is rather vague about it, and other religions have their own ideas that contradict one another. Some equate the soul with the spirit, some consider them separate. Even Christians don’t agree. Why is that?JTaylor
March 25, 2009
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Berceuse said @28: "Who said the soul was immutable?" You're right - I'm not who said it. In fact I'm not even sure what the soul is or isn't. Christianity is rather vague about it, and other religions have their own ideas that contradict one another. Some equate the soul with the spirit, some consider them separate. Even Christians don't agree among themselves. Why is that?JTaylor
March 25, 2009
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Berceuse said @28: "Who said the soul was immutable?" You're right - I'm not who said it. In fact I'm not even sure what the soul is or isn't. Christianity is rather vague about it, and other religions have their own ideas that contradict one another. Some equate the soul with the spirit, some consider them separate. Even Christians don't agree among themselves. Why is that?JTaylor
March 25, 2009
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Berceuse said @28: "Who said the soul was immutable?" You're right - I'm not who said it. In fact I'm not even sure what the soul is or isn't. Christianity is rather vague about it, and other religions have their own ideas that contradict one another. Some equate the soul with the spirit, some consider them separate. Even Christians don't agrJTaylor
March 25, 2009
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JDH, It is you who are assuming that materialists rely on chaos theory and/or quantum theory to rescue the possibility of free will. In fact, the dominant view among philosophers today is that free will is possible even in a deterministic universe, and that agent causation -- an idea to which you evidently subscribe -- is incoherent whether or not determinism is true (and even whether or not materialism is true). For a nice primer on the subject, I recommend Robert Kane's A Contemporary Introduction to Free Will.skeech
March 25, 2009
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skeech@27 and Pendulum@29 One of the difficult things about discussing something on a board like this is people assume the ignorance of their opponents. Chaos theory, quantum theory, none of these rescue the materialist from the fact that a world with only materialism means a world without a causitive agent. This immediately implies no free will. In my understanding, whether or not there is free will does not depend upon whether the world interactions are correctly modelled by hard billiard balls or Feynman diagrams, it only matters if an agent can take a knowing action with real, not "perceived" purpose. You appear to hide the logical consequences of your belief behind a theory I think you don't fully comprehend and then claim "nuance". Of course I could be wrong, but I don't think so.JDH
March 25, 2009
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mentok [31], that article almost three decades old. As the article admits, the scans of the time were pretty poor and ambiguous. What does the much better current scanning technology say about such cases?David Kellogg
March 25, 2009
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Sorry I forgot to edit the last post. The first sentence should ready 'personality exists as a consequence of the interface between soul and body. There are some other typos but its still readable so guess we can let it slide.Oramus
March 25, 2009
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May I add, personality exists as a result of the interface between mind and body. If the body is injured, the mind must compensate for the break in the original path. A new path is built, which may appear as a change in personality. But it does not change the self. That is why I don't believe personality to be ME. Personality is an expression of ME in the body I have. If I reincarnate into another body, with a different set of wiring, I must still be ME. Here's another way to see it. If you know another language deeply, does it change YOU. My mother tongue is French Canadian, my language growing up was American English, and my current language is Chinese. I speak it to the bone. I am fully immersed in the culture. I see myself as having been three different people in my life. Am I still me? Yes, because I do not recognize myself by my personality, but the control I have over it. I could easily imagine myself in another body. But is it still ME? Without question. I would advise all reader to immerse themselves deeply into another language in culture, only if the realize the true self that steps away from the trappings of language, habit and culture. It is liberating. do this in tandem with meditation like Buddhists do, where they practice the cessation of thought. I said this to an atheist a while back and he thought it was absurd that a person could stay sane without thinking. Well, if you try to do it you will notice what I mean. There is an indescribable experience of peace and tranquilty. I believe it is experiencing reality in real time, without the filter of consciousness These exercises, disruption of habit (language/culture) and meditation IMO will go a long way in helping one discover the real nature of our (tri)ality.Oramus
March 25, 2009
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B. Harville:
But if the mind, or personality, is seperate from the brain then personality change should never happen as a result of brain injury.
B, if you understand the mind as interface between soul and body, there is no issue. Moreso, our behavior only makes sense in the light of a tripartite configuration, modelled from the tripartite nature of the trinity. Addiction (along with suicide), are clear examples. The body, lacking any influence from a soul, could not work against itself since preservation of the body is the organism's primary goal. Question is, why is it that the body seemingly seeks pleasure that the mind knows leads to the denigration of the body, yet does not nothing to stop it? Do we not all feel this at one time or another in our lives? Coffee makes me irritable, causes excema, sleepless nights (leading to another set of physical issues) and a host of other problems, but I am not about to stop the coffee because I "neeeeeeed" it, waaaaaant it; it feels good at the moment I drink the coffee, smell its wonderful aroma, taste the unique quality of the bean. Good thing its only coffee, eh! Some poor folks like my late bro were tormented by addiction. No matter what he tried he couldn't defeat it. Thinking about that for so long, and getting into these ID/ND debates in the past year, I'm thinking how does the genome that is me, if there is no duality, seemingly fight itself. It makes no sense. The brain should, in the interest of preserving itself, override any conflicting signals generated by other parts of the brain, that apparently waive any authority to control the desire of any single body part? It seems TOE props are forever trying to construct yet another plausible argument to reconcile the conflict between the fundamental tenets of TOE and the conclusions of our abductive reasoning. Is our abductive cognition yet another illusion of design? Hmm.Oramus
March 25, 2009
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