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GP, Mike Pence and Free Will

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Last year the commentariat erupted in a frenzy of tut-tutting when it was revealed that Vice President Mike Pence has a personal rule never to eat alone with a woman other than his wife or attend events serving alcohol unless she is with him.  I thought about this story yesterday during a fruitful discussion I had with gpuccio about the limits of free will.  See comments 13-15 to this post.

GP summed up his position as follows:

I mean that we cannot really know what our real choices are, but that we always have choices.  I will try to be more clear. Your example of an addict is very good for that.

We could think that the choice for an addict is simply to go on or to stop.  But, as you say, it’s not so simple.  Sometimes, many times, it seems that an addict is simply not capable to “stop”.  So, where is his free will?

I think that free will means that, whatever our circumstances and our constraints, there is always some inner choice that has a meaning and that can change our future.  Those choices are mainly based on our intuitive attunement to something that we could call “a moral field”: they are not random, but they are not only a matter of reasoning, even if good reasoning is an important factor.

So, for an addict, the choice could simply be between: going on with a completely passive and self-destructive attitude, or going on with some minor, apparently desperate, form of inner resistance.

The great truth is that the second option, if pursued long enough, can change the balance of the inner constraints, and open a path to greater operative freedom, so that someday the choice will be: to go on or to stop.

That inner attunement to our best inner potentials is the true source of our free will, and it can change our personal destiny . . . But the great glory of human free will is that it can help us to free ourselves from our constraints: we are free because we fight against constraints, not because we have none.

Relish that last sentence with me.  It is a thing of true beauty.

I call the sum total of a person’s genetic and environmental influences (the whole sum of all nature and nurture factors) that person’s “aggregate influences.”  Those who deny free will insist that our aggregate influences utterly determine every choice we make, from what to have for lunch to what career to pursue.  And even the most ardent advocate of libertarian free will admits there cannot be the slightest doubt that a person’s free will is, in GP’s words, “highly constrained” by his aggregate influences.  But, thank God, that is not the end of the story.

The undeniable existence of the constraints imposed on our choices by our aggregate influences is actually tremendous evidence for the existence of free will, not the other way around.  Why?  Because we can choose to resist going the direction those aggregate influences are pushing us.  If we had no free will, the Borgs would be right.  Resistance would be not merely futile, but impossible.

Back to Mike Pence.  Presumably Mr. Pence’s rule is based on a common sense pragmatic recognition of human, especially male, vulnerability.  The rule is designed to minimize the risk of succumbing to temptation.  But doesn’t Mr. Pence have free will, one might ask?  He is not an insensate beast.  Why does he need a rule like that?  Why doesn’t he just exercise his free will to avoid succumbing to the temptation if the temptation arises?

The answer to these questions lies in GP’s discussion above.  Yes, Mike Pence has free will.  Yes, he can exercise that free will to avoid succumbing to the temptation if the temptation arises.  Those questions are red herrings.  The real question is not whether Mike Pence could possibly avoid the temptation if it were to arise.  The real question is what strategy gives Mike Pence the best chance of not falling.  And here is where the issue of constraints comes in.  Some constraints, by their nature, ebb and flow.  Human males are designed such that they generally have a very strong sexual attraction to human females.  No one doubts that strong sexual attraction is a constraint on a male’s choice to not pursue a female in a particular instance.  But the constraint is not constant, and therein lies the wisdom of the Pence Rule.  The best time to choose not to pursue a female who is not your wife is NOT when you are alone with her at dinner drinking alcohol.  [here one is tempted to add “Duh!”].  The best time to make that choice is long before that situation ever arises.

As between “alone at dinner drinking alcohol” and “any time before then” the latter is the time when the constraints are lower and the ability to make the right choice is correspondingly higher.  It does not mean that Mike Pence has admitted he is a beast with no free will.  He has admitted he is a human with constrained free will.  And his rule is designed to minimize constraints at the point of choice.  Again, this is just common sense.  Which is why the controversy that erupted over the issue was so silly.

Comments
Seversky: Whatever Pence’s motives for adopting that policy, an underlying theme would seem to be that men are unable to control themselves in presence of attractive women. The mind-reader tell.mike1962
March 19, 2018
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ET, I think the ongoing use of destruction by politically motivated poorly grounded accusations is so manifest that we are looking at denial. Pence is clearly concerned about the same thing as Billy Graham (who is probably the church leader most associated with the stance) -- being tainted by false accusations -- so that he is taking prudent precautions. We have cases of people being subjected to accusations that are dubious but are trumpeted and used to destroy them. Frankly, when I see the media entertaining those who accuse millions of murder while themselves being implicated in enabling the ongoing abortion holocaust [800+ millions in 40-odd years, now mounting up globally at 1 million further victims per WEEK, by Guttmacher/UN numbers], I have to add to the list of underlying motives, projection. Graham, Pence and others know we are in a very sick civilisation, where those who stand up for virtue and for reform will face all sorts of accusation and attempts to discredit, denigrate, demonise, dismiss and scapegoat. In that situation, their counsel makes a LOT of good sense. But for those who would enable such accusations, there is a cognitive dissonance involved, and one of the "solutions" to such is to project blame to targets. So, we have a heads I win, tails you lose mentality. If you leave the smallest opening (and sometimes if you don't), the accusations will be trumpeted to destroy. If you take precautions that are publicly known, you will be smeared as being unable to control yourselves or as being prejudiced against women and/or imposing the "glass ceiling." Not at all, the underlying factor is that there demonstrably is deeply polarised and implacable hostility -- indeed, outright hate -- out there and there are those whose spirit is that of the Accuser. Therefore, know that a roaring lion is out there seeking those he may devour. It is time to turn the tables and expose the culture of accusation, the tabloidisation of the media and the tabloidsisation of politics and policy making. Where, a clear driving force is cultural marxism disguised as progressivism and its use of agit prop, street theatre, media lynch mobs and lawfare, leading onwards to full blown 4th generation warfare. We are carelessly walking the edge of a crumbling cliff. KFkairosfocus
March 19, 2018
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What's pathological and repulsive to me is "selective responses." This means straining at gnats and swallowing camels-- factionalism that's either hyper-critical in a state of outrage, or complete tolerance in a state of apathy depending on the person or issue. For example, "I'm so infuriated that Christians want to force their morality on everyone, especially on children against their will." "Female circumcision is a very complex cultural and sociological question within Islam that needs to be treated with sensitivity and respect." Or vice versa. -QQuerius
March 13, 2018
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Whatever Pence’s motives for adopting that policy, an underlying theme would seem to be that men are unable to control themselves in presence of attractive women –
And yet we do, many, many times a day.ET
March 13, 2018
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Vivid, professing to be wise they fell into absurdity and patent evil re-labelled as good. Such then has to be sustained by abuse of power and the community moves ever closer to the crumbling edge of a cliff. All it takes is a sudden earth-jolt from a quake and, collapse. The signs are there but who is willing to face the signs of absurdity as usual heading to ruin? KF PS: I was raised to treat women with special respect. Now, I, too, have to be very wary of ticking time bombs who will twist circumstances into occasions for attack. Where, only a fool would keep falling for Lucy's promise not to snatch away the football. But then, that is how polarised politics plays out. The backlash is going to be truly nasty.kairosfocus
March 13, 2018
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KF I think you are spot on. We are reverting back to tribalism and as you point out this is not happening by happenstance IMO Sadly some of the victims of all this happen to be women. I used to open doors, wait for them to enter first when going into an elevator, compliment them on one thing or another, not anymore my philosophy is the less said the better. Now some women may think that all of the above is sexist but some women probably dont ( my wife for example) but those women that appreciate those gestures are being caught in the crossfire. As Andrew Breitbart pointed out polictics is downstream from culture. IMO the culture is going the wrong way and politics ( which is war without blood) reflects the tribalistic path we are marching down. Take the gun control debate. I am sure that I will trigger someone but I am a proud NRA member. I am a law abiding citizen yet I am called a terrorist. The shooting in Florida had nothing to do with the NRA and in fact was a total failure of government. If anything we have learned that the government cannot protect us. I dont know of ANY NRA member that has participated in a mass shooting although I do know of one who stopped one ie Sugarland. The only organization I am aware of that participates in mass murder is Planned Parenthood which was founded by a racists bigot, a hero to Hilary Clinton (along with the KKK Grand Claeagle Harry Byrd) and gets a half a billion a year from the Government!!! Yet the NRA is the villain. This is insane. Vividvividbleau
March 13, 2018
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Vivid, you are right. The cultural marxists have ridden piggyback on a lot of genuine issues, turning them into occasions for mobbing, media trial by accusation and lawfare. A sensible man now realises that to interact with potential ticking time bombs is something he must do only with the utmost caution and protective measures. Soon, men are going to start wearing body cams in self-defense. Those who have set up this situation do in fact want to trigger the breakdown of the social capital built up through centuries of Christian civilisation. Their folly is, they are beginning to get what they asked for, and they are not enjoying the consequences: breakdown of civil society and the return of the clan as a micro-community of trust and mini army to defend itself -- and BTW that is one reason a serious gun confiscation attempt in the USA would trigger civil war. The economic, socio-cultural, governance and civilisational implications are huge. Even here, doctors now refuse to examine female patients without a nurse immediately present as a witness. KF PS: I have reason to believe the genders count now exceeds 100, a sure sign of epicycles running out of control.kairosfocus
March 13, 2018
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Sev “it’s sets a dangerous precedent.” Utter nonsense. I am a small business owner and I will tell you that I would never meet with a woman alone that’s just standard protocol now. This is the result of the unintended consequences of our PC culture where anything no matter how innocuous can be taken as some kind of micro or macro aggression that depends on the sensibilities of the one perceiving the so called “aggression” Hell with something like 36 different gender types and various pronouns Im thinking of applying the same standard to men. Vividvividbleau
March 13, 2018
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Whatever Pence's motives for adopting that policy, an underlying theme would seem to be that men are unable to control themselves in presence of attractive women - which is what Islam uses to justify its oppressive treatment of women. While Pence may have done it from the best of intentions, it's sets a dangerous precedent.Seversky
March 13, 2018
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I think that you underestimate the level of trust that most couples have.
Allan, It's not that I don't think there can be a high level of trust, it's just that I am an observer of human nature. And I see that it's human nature to question, and sometimes doubt as the result. I think I should put my wife first when it comes to attention to females. That means all other females take a back seat. A way that I can fairly easily put this idea into action is the Pence Rule. Andrewasauber
March 13, 2018
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Andrew,
If you think you having dinner alone with females other than your wife hasn’t raised questions in her mind or among her friends, then she’s just not sharing them with you.
I think that you underestimate the level of trust that most couples have. My wife and I each had friends of both sexes before we were married and we still occasionally meet up with them, for lunch, dinner, a drink, a coffee. The biggest danger to any relationship is jealousy, especially when it is unwarranted. But I also realize that some people are so insecure that jealousy becomes a type of pathology. It is really sad to see.Allan Keith
March 13, 2018
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If having dinner with a female coworker, or a friend, can raise trust issues, then the trust problems already exist.
Allan, Pardon my joke, but is your wife a woman? lol If you think you having dinner alone with females other than your wife hasn't raised questions in her mind or among her friends, then she's just not sharing them with you. Andrewasauber
March 13, 2018
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LM@28, Sorry, I used the "...so little self control..." to highlight the absurdity of him not eating alone with other women as a means of avoiding temptation. I apologize if I gave the wrong impression. I have no doubt that he is very faithful to his wife. Andrew,
That’s better than subjecting your marriage to trust problems.
If having dinner with a female coworker, or a friend, can raise trust issues, then the trust problems already exist.Allan Keith
March 13, 2018
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LM, the media shielded JFK (and others). It now plays the tabloid scandal card at every opportunity with those it does not like, in an attempt to take such people apart on the merest hint of an uncorroborated story from even the least credible accuser . . . it seems we have forgotten the lesson of Potiphar's wife. Better to shut the door to the problem ahead of time. And no, you cannot have your cake and eat it; complaining of lost opportunities for informal confidential association and mentoring. Those who used scandal-mongering to destroy people through drive-by accusation and media puffing* up should have thought about the implications. KF * I remain of the view that US defamation law is a mess.kairosfocus
March 13, 2018
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What is more sad is that our Vice President has so little self control over his nether regions that he can’t be trusted with women other than his wife.
Assuming your every implied aspersion is true in the worst possible way, that would put him on the same moral footing as JFK; who, last I heard, was generally agreed upon as a pretty good president; especially by the liberal bloc whose media arm flogged Pence for stating what he doesn't do.LocalMinimum
March 13, 2018
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Ok got it:
Presumably Mr. Pence’s rule is based on a common sense pragmatic recognition of human, especially male, vulnerability.
That presumption is unwarranted. It is just as easy to see that political correctness has him doing it that way. Or that he actually has a deep love for his wife- or both. That said the reason Islam requires women to be covered is male vulnerability- as in we can't keep our hormones in checkET
March 13, 2018
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ET,
You don’t have any right to such a presumption. I could easily counter with political correctness has him doing what he does. He is not just an ordinary citizen and he is held to higher standards.
Take it up with Barry. Those are his words, not mine.Allan Keith
March 13, 2018
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Allan Keith:
Presumably Mr. Pence’s rule is based on a common sense pragmatic recognition of human, especially male, vulnerability. The rule is designed to minimize the risk of succumbing to temptation.
You don't have any right to such a presumption. I could easily counter with political correctness has him doing what he does. He is not just an ordinary citizen and he is held to higher standards.ET
March 13, 2018
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I am just saying exactly what News, Querius and KF have said.
Well, not really. You said some different things. Anyway, when this story was news, my wife and I talked about it, and I told her I thought the Pence Rule was a good rule. For guys, it's a great way to show respect for your wife, that you would, in premeditated fashion, spare her from a potential moment of doubt. That's better than subjecting your marriage to trust problems. Andrewasauber
March 13, 2018
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Andrew,
That’s all well and good but to then to slam Mike Pence for exercising his virtue of prudence kind of makes you look a little inconsistent.
I am just saying exactly what News, Querius and KF have said. That his decision not to eat alone with other women has less to do with avoiding temptation and more to do with avoiding unjustified rumours.Allan Keith
March 13, 2018
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News,
I know nothing of the internet handle Allan Keith except the written words under it. So I do not know what consequences there would be if he were, say, accused of an impropriety (we will assume unjustly accused).
Yes. That's exactly what I meant.Allan Keith
March 13, 2018
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Anrew, Allan you say you have a problem with the bottle, so what do you do to avoid causing yourself more problems with the bottle. I do something very similar to Pence. I make a point of only drinking when I am in a social setting. My only point was that I don't think that Pence's approach to eating alone with woman has anything to do with avoiding temptation. Given todays climate, it is just a wise move to avoid false rumours.Allan Keith
March 13, 2018
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But neither my wife nor I have any fear should I have a meal alone with a woman other than my wife. Which I do often.
Allan Keith, I suspect you are selling us on your virtue of chastity because you like having a meal alone with women other than your wife, and you would like to continue this behavior. That's all well and good but to then to slam Mike Pence for exercising his virtue of prudence kind of makes you look a little inconsistent. But then again, if you are an Atheist, you don't know what virtue is, and you are just preening. Andrewasauber
March 13, 2018
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Querius at 14, exactly! It's not a question of personal level of temptation but of, as kairosfocus says at 17, the consequences of accusation, true or false. I know nothing of the internet handle Allan Keith except the written words under it. So I do not know what consequences there would be if he were, say, accused of an impropriety (we will assume unjustly accused). Mike Pence is in a rather different position. His running mate is an earned media magnet like no other I have seen, for good or ill. Not even the Kennedys, for heaven's sake. Channels are clogged with vast amounts of inflated trivia and speculations by anonymous sources dressed up as stories. They are instantly flogged up by media who apparently do not have a real story to tell but feel the need to write about the White House. American Pravda gives some sense of this. Pence's rule may disappoint or offend some people. But in his job, it is the only safe way. I can think of some ex-politicians who would have been better off with his rule than theirs.News
March 13, 2018
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Free will is not free action.William J Murray
March 13, 2018
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Folks, there is another dimension in this age of personal destruction and the vulture media: avoiding circumstances that open up blackmail and/or accusations. Especially, for a conservative politician. KFkairosfocus
March 13, 2018
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Allan Keith- Allan you say you have a problem with the bottle, so what do you do to avoid causing yourself more problems with the bottle.We all do not have the same level of desire and temptation in each and every aspect of our flesh.I might as easily say to you oh my how weak you are I live in Ireland and have no issue with alcohol , I could go to any bar, or party and have no desire to drink you are so weak that you have this issue, but I have other issues,specks eyes and logs comes to mind. Mr Pence is being prudent and sensible as he see`s fit knowing one`s limit is a great blessing.Marfin
March 13, 2018
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Querius@14, you say this and nobody will criticize it. I say the same thing, as an atheist, and I live in my mother’s basement.Allan Keith
March 12, 2018
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News at 11 . . . Good point! It might be precisely the point, considering today's guilt-by-allegation and trial-by-journalism environment. Pence is wise. Many organizations encourage their employees to avoid even the appearance (or potential) for wrongdoing. A Junior High teacher that I once knew, taught at an inner city continuation school. He told me that he was extremely careful about never ever being alone with a girl or girls in a classroom, knowing that without enough witnesses, his life could easily be ruined and he would spend many years in jail based on tearful but fabricated testimony. He said that the girls there knew the power that they had and no one dared cross them. -QQuerius
March 12, 2018
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Barry,
And with all the temptation that comes your way down in your mother’s basement, that is a monumental feat of self-control. I am impressed.
What is more sad is that our Vice President has so little self control over his nether regions that he can’t be trusted with women other than his wife. Do you have this problem?Allan Keith
March 12, 2018
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