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A riot human shield — the face of C21, 4GW Culture-form Marxist insurgency


Here is an image from Portland, of the “wall of moms” human shield; one, that is NOT being prominently featured in the major media that are busily trying to paint Federal officers defending a court house after 50 days of rioting as Nazi-style storm troopers:

U/D, Jul 24: It seems, I need to show typical logos of the Antifa, to make a point clear:

Logos of the Antifa

Let me further add, from redspark dot nu, evidently a pro-Antifa site:

Since its original emergence in the early 1920s, fascism as an ideology and a movement has been met with fierce opposition. From the very beginning, communists (along with other leftists) have taken up the cause to not simply resist, but to actively oppose and crush fascism wherever it has cropped up. One such organization, the Roter Frontkämpferbund (“Red Front Fighters’ League”), was formed in 1924 by the German Communist Party as a paramilitary organization to carry out militant antifascist work. In order to continue their militant antifascist work after the Roter Frontkämpferbund was banned, the German Communist Party formed another organization which was the first to bear the name Antifascist Action. Antifaschistische Aktion operated until its demise in 1933 under the violent repression of the Nazi regime, which itself was defeated by the Soviet Red Army in 1945.

A significant resurgence of fascism began in the late 1970s and early 1980s as more white nationalist organizations began to emerge and grow in numbers as capitalism found itself once again in crisis . . . . As this militant, white-supremacist fascism began to grow during the 1980s, so did the resurgence of militant anti-fascism. Groups adopting the name Anti-Fascist Action (AFA) in the UK and Europe and Anti-Racist Action (ARA) in North America started to appear—the first being the AFA in London, England (1985) and ARA in Minneapolis, USA (1988). While these organizations have often included fighting sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, and other forms of oppression within their mandate, combating street-level fascism has been their primary focus.

Like the organizations of the 1920s and ‘30s, these AFA and ARA groups (or simply antifa, as they are colloquially known) consisted of communists, anarchists, and other non-aligned leftists brought together for the express purpose of confronting and preventing local fascist organizing . . . .

Fighting fascism is direly important—like fighting police violence, environmental destruction, homelessness, etc. is direly important—but you can’t cure a disease by chasing after the symptoms alone. Defeating street-level fascists does not by itself stop those fascists who are moving amongst the ruling class any more than stopping one pipeline saves a body of water from contamination by other extractive industries. To ultimately solve these problems is to wage a much larger war. As these issues are all symptoms of capitalism, the solution is found in working class organizing in order to take power and thus dictate the society in which we wish to live. We will only do this by connecting anti-fascist, anti-racist, anti-colonial, anti-patriarchal, pro-environment organizing with revolutionary anti-capitalist organizing aimed towards achieving the dictatorship of the proletariat.

We can note several things regarding the photo:

— “Class War” is instantly recognisable, Marxist revolutionary/insurgency terminology. (This identifies that the ideology here is clearly Marxist, here, in Frankfurt School cultural strategy “long march through the institutions” form.)

— The A-with-circle is a logo for the “Antifa,” showing the alliance with BLM, i.e. we see a network of front organisations, with hints of astro-turfing

— Use of human shields with cameras, and particularly of “moms” is meant to force a cruel dilemma: allow riot or appear to be bullying oppressors, with the enabling media watching.

— Similarly, “moms” tries to deconstruct key family and protective values of Western Civilisation, so this is also anti-civilisational. (And if you are trying to undermine family and the cultural norm that protects women and children from violence, that is misanthropic.)

— The media framing indicates their complicity in the Police are fascist thugs defending an illegitimate fascist regime narrative. (We can freely use mirror psychology to infer what these would do were they to hold untrammelled power. Likewise, this directly connects to defund/abolish the police. Add it up: you must be disarmed, the police will protect. The police have no duty to protect any particular individual or property. In the face of favoured rioters, the police are told to stand down. If you try to defend yourselves or deter assault, you will be stripped of weapons (inviting round two), you will be charged with felonies and will face the financial costs involved. And if you try to move away, major media may pursue and further doxx you, inciting the Red Guards to make a follow up visit. Is this where we really want to go? Have you thought about the consequences of rule 6.5 mm and the 1,000 yard veto? )

— Such is the face of C21 4th Generation Revolutionary/Insurgency war operations.

Now, we need to ask some pointed questions regarding what is going on, and why we are being fed manipulative narratives, starting with:

Where we are, not where we wish we were:

Can we read the signs of our times and act before we go completely over the cliff? Time, indubitably, will tell. I think, the next 6 – 18 months will be strategically pivotal. END

PS: Overnight, let me add a framework on the dynamics of the state:

U/d b for clarity, nb Nil

. . . and another on the political spectrum:

PPS: A Balkan woman tries to warn us:

O, very funny, tell that to the three blinded officers dazzled with high intensity lasers for the "crime" of defending federal property . . . a court house (a place for carrying out justice) . . . under assault. Likewise to those injured by exploding pyrotechnics. I suggest you do a rethink. KF kairosfocus
DHS should have called its actions in Portland "Jade Helm 20".... Orloog
ET, we can see the tactics of objectors to the design inference and draw the conclusion they have nothing substantial to answer to the 70 years long demonstration of alphanumeric, algorithmic -- so linguistic and goal directed -- code in the D/RNA of the cell and its mitochondria. Their case is that of a bankrupt ideology. That matter is effectively settled. Now, we need to defend our civilisation at kairos, in the face of chaos-forces and their hoping- to- be- the- new- oligarchs backers. Such is now manifest. KF kairosfocus
For whatever it's worth- word from the swamp is there is an evoTARD (acartia bogart/ william spearshake) pretending to be an ID supporter posting here.
What’s especially funny to me is that while Joe thought Ed George was Acartia, who he was not, Acartia is sock puppeting at UD as a creationist excuse me Intelligent Design supporter.
What was especially funny is that Eddie said he was william spearshake. And william spearshake is acartia.... ET
Among liberals there are lots of good losers, liars an crybabies. But they are all still losers, liars and crybabies. Fortunately for America there are many mental health professionals to help the liberals obtain diapers and meds to help them through life. ET
F/N: A sobering lesson of history, via the ever so humble Wikipedia inadvertently testifying against interest:
On January 13, 532, a tense and angry populace arrived at the Hippodrome for the races [--> sponsored by Justinian, with a backdrop of political crisis] .[citation needed] The Hippodrome was next to the palace complex, and thus Justinian could watch from the safety of his box in the palace and preside over the races. [--> h'mm, a palace overlooking public entertainment facilities?] From the start, the crowd had been hurling insults at Justinian. By the end of the day, at race 22, the partisan chants had changed from "Blue" or "Green" to a unified N??? ("Nika", meaning "Win!" "Victory!" or "Conquer!"), and the crowds broke out and began to assault the palace. For the next five days, the palace was under siege.[citation needed] The fires that started during the tumult resulted in the destruction of much of the city, including the city's foremost church, the Hagia Sophia (which Justinian would later rebuild). [--> rioting, arson, doubtless looting and violent assault. Notice Hagia Sophia, again in the news] Some of the senators saw this as an opportunity to overthrow Justinian, as they were opposed to his new taxes and his lack of support for the nobility.[citation needed] [--> opportunistic pols] The rioters, now armed and probably controlled by their allies in the Senate [--> red guards with backers] , also demanded that Justinian dismiss the prefect John the Cappadocian and the quaestor Tribonian. [--> unpopular, suspect of corruption but leading reformation including issuing the justly famous Corpus Juris Civilis] They then declared a new emperor, Hypatius, who was a nephew of former Emperor Anastasius I.[citation needed] Justinian, in despair, considered fleeing, but his wife Theodora is said to have dissuaded him, saying, "Those who have worn the crown should never survive its loss. Never will I see the day when I am not saluted as empress."[10] She is also credited with adding, "[W]ho is born into the light of day must sooner or later die; and how could an Emperor ever allow himself to be a fugitive."[11] Although an escape route across the sea lay open for the emperor, Theodora insisted that she would stay in the city, quoting an ancient saying, "Royalty is a fine burial shroud," or perhaps, "[the royal color] Purple makes a fine winding sheet."[12] As Justinian rallied himself, he created a plan that involved Narses, a popular eunuch, as well as the generals Belisarius and Mundus. Carrying a bag of gold given to him by Justinian, the slightly built eunuch entered the Hippodrome alone and unarmed against a murderous mob that had already killed hundreds. [--> notice, riots come with murder] Narses went directly to the Blues' section, where he approached the important Blues and reminded them that Emperor Justinian supported them over the Greens. He also reminded them that Hypatius, the man they crowned, was a Green. Then, he distributed the gold. The Blue leaders spoke quietly with each other and then they spoke to their followers. Then, in the middle of Hypatius' coronation, the Blues stormed out of the Hippodrome. The Greens sat, stunned. Then, Imperial troops led by Belisarius and Mundus stormed into the Hippodrome, killing any remaining rebels indiscriminately be they Blues or Greens.[11] [--> sword vs riot and uprising, not mere batons] About thirty thousand rioters were reportedly killed.[13] Justinian also had Hypatius executed and exiled the senators who had supported the riot. He then rebuilt Constantinople and the Hagia Sophia and was free to establish his rule.
A lesson. We don't want to go back there, ever. KF kairosfocus
F/N: Notice, consistent evasion of clear evidence that we are dealing with Marxist front groups riding piggyback on legitimate grievances and using Red Guard tactics. Where, it should be a commonplace that in any reasonably functional constitutional democracy (including not only Parliamentary, monarchical forms but also republics) there are endless ways to come together peaceably and petition for redress of grievances, expose abuses and propose reforms. Every 3 - 7 years, there is a major election cycle constituting a national audit of government, with opportunity for peaceful reform or even revolution if that is desired. There are media who are ever eager to expose scandal and abuse. There are courts, ever open to hear lawsuits. So, there is simply no excuse for rioting, arson, looting, mobbing and assaulting people and the like. To suggest that those who object to sustained inexcusable,. violently destructive, lawless conduct and to enabling local authorities (who in certain cases need to face recall and maybe prosecution for their malfeasance or abuses) and who recognise a legitimate role for federal agencies in restoring good order -- ask, just who will be asked to pay taxes to fund rebuilding of what has been so wantonly destroyed? -- are Nazis or the like . . . "good Germans" . . . is clearly utterly inexcusable. KF PS: A lesson from classical times, in answer to riotous assembly:
Ac 19: 21 Now after these events [Paul's preaching at Ephesus for 3 years, including hiring a Lecture Hall and thus giving regular presentations] Paul resolved in the Spirit to pass through Macedonia and Achaia and go to Jerusalem, saying, “After I have been there, I must also see Rome.” 22 And having sent into Macedonia two of his helpers, Timothy and Erastus, he himself stayed in Asia for a while. 23 About that time there arose no little disturbance concerning the Way. 24 For a man named Demetrius, a silversmith, who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought no little business to the craftsmen. 25 These he gathered together, with the workmen in similar trades, and said, “Men, you know that from this business we have our wealth. 26 And you see and hear that not only in Ephesus but in almost all of Asia this Paul has persuaded and turned away a great many people, saying that gods made with hands are not gods. 27 And there is danger not only that this trade of ours may come into disrepute but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis may be counted as nothing, and that she may even be deposed from her magnificence, she whom all Asia and the world worship.” 28 When they heard this they were enraged and were crying out, “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!” 29 So the city was filled with the confusion, and they rushed together into the theater, dragging with them Gaius and Aristarchus, Macedonians who were Paul's companions in travel. 30 But when Paul wished to go in among the crowd, the disciples would not let him. 31 And even some of the Asiarchs,5 who were friends of his [--> not only rulers but the people in charge of the very temples in question!], sent to him and were urging him not to venture into the theater. 32 Now some cried out one thing, some another, for the assembly was in confusion, and most of them did not know why they had come together. [--> sounds familiar?] 33 Some of the crowd prompted Alexander, whom the Jews had put forward. And Alexander, motioning with his hand, wanted to make a defense to the crowd. 34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, for about two hours they all cried out with one voice, “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!” 35 And when the town clerk [--> chief administrator, not quite, mayor] had quieted the crowd, he said,
“Men of Ephesus, who is there who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is temple keeper of the great Artemis, and of the sacred stone that fell from the sky?6 36 Seeing then that these things cannot be denied, you ought to be quiet and do nothing rash. 37 For you have brought these men here who are neither sacrilegious nor blasphemers of our goddess. 38 If therefore Demetrius and the craftsmen with him have a complaint against anyone, the courts are open, and there are proconsuls. Let them bring charges against one another. 39 But if you seek anything further,7 it shall be settled in the regular assembly. 40 For we really are in danger of being charged with rioting today, since there is no cause that we can give to justify this commotion.”
41 And when he had said these things, he dismissed the assembly. [ESV. The implication was, the next step would be to send in the real troops, with swords not batons, as happened at other times.]
A lesson. kairosfocus
RP, the insinuation of nazism is over the line. Pull it back and apologise. KF kairosfocus
@TimR among conservatives there are lots of Good Germans. Fortunately for America, the conservative base, older, white, less educated racists, are on the decline. Trump is their last shriek. Retired Physicist
The 10th Amendment is clear. Anything NOT in the Constitution is relegated to the states and the people of the states. It is a direct reference to the Supremacy Clause, which binds all states to the US Constitution. No state, no governor, no city council, no group of people can violate any part of the US Constitution. There are no exceptions to the Supremacy Clause. BobRyan
Sev et al, I suggest that the USA is rapidly becoming a capital example of what happens when first duties of reason are lost sight of as foundational, for life with integrity and for a sound, sustainable society worth living in. I go so far as to say these are part of the buttresses that stabilise a constitutional democracy, being core to the built in law of our morally governed nature:
We can readily identify at least seven inescapable first duties of reason. Inescapable, as they are so antecedent to reasoning that even the objector implicitly appeals to them; i.e. they are self-evident. Duties, to truth, to right reason, to prudence, to sound conscience, to neighbour, so also to fairness and justice etc. Such built in law is not invented by parliaments or courts, nor can these principles and duties be abolished by such. (Cf. Cicero in De Legibus, c. 50 BC.) Indeed, it is on this framework that we can set out to soundly understand and duly balance rights, freedoms and duties; which is justice. The legitimate main task of government, then, is to uphold and defend the civil peace of justice through sound community order reflecting the built in, intelligible law of our nature. Where, as my right implies your duty a true right is a binding moral claim to be respected in life, liberty, honestly aquired property, innocent reputation etc. To so justly claim a right, one must therefore demonstrably be in the right. Thus, too, we may compose sound civil law informed by that built-in law of our responsibly, rationally free morally governed nature; from such, we may identify what is unsound or false thus to be reformed or replaced even though enacted under the colour and solemn ceremonies of law. These duties, also, are a framework for understanding and articulating the corpus of built-in law of our morally governed nature, antecedent to civil laws and manifesting our roots in the Supreme Law-giver, the inherently good, utterly wise and just creator-God.
We seem determined to learn what happens when we profess ourselves to be wise but put folly in the place of Wisdom, trying to invent new systems of thought and community life in defiance of such first principles and duties. The resulting collapse of soundness is increasingly plain all around us, and will predictably lead us over the cliff. Right now, it looks like that is beginning to happen. The media seem to be the chief enablers of that folly, hence the straight vs spin grid in the OP. KF kairosfocus
TimR, the courthouse is a Federal site. You have already been advised that there are further Federal powers that have been exercised many times over the years. Beyond, lies the insurrection act. KF PS: It is a further sign, that you still want to suggest that "troops" are in use, having been corrected. We have not seen the Gestapo kidnapping under nacht und nebel decrees, or the like -- as has been mischievously, slanderously suggested -- but we have seen rioters checked under disciplined order [note the videos and remarks above], and that key rioters have been identified and brought before courts to answer charges. In due course, we will be able to see the substance of same. PPS: Riot suppression will inevitably look a lot like old fashioned military tactics [typically with less lethal technologies], some harking back to Classical times, e.g. shield walls, baton charges [not push of cruelly sharp pike], cavalry, water cannon, etc. Body armour has re-emerged for both policing and the military, though loss of mobility is, again, a key challenge as was seen in Iraq and Afghanistan; the solution we are seeing in videos is light armour as the officers in the column charge to break a rioter shield wall demonstrated. Riots are in effect semi-military phenomena with ill-disciplined troops. A common factor, is the restraint from use of guns firing bullets and artillery firing lethal ammunition. Beyond a certain point, that bleeds over into insurrection once guns come into significant play, which calls for more severe rules of engagement. 4GW at this kinetic level, uses protest and riot as protective cover for insurrection and to provide the bloody shirt to wave in intent to discredit a government by oh see unable to control chaos and/or see tyrannical bloody oppressors; the links to my alternative spectrum are obvious. The key is the presence of Red Guards, and that points to their backers. I wonder what we will hear from the enabling media when RICO laws or the like come into play to deal with such backers? kairosfocus
Seversky: When former President Obama made a reference to being more flexible with Russia after the next election, which was at the tail end of his first term, Russia and Putin were defended by the same outlets that vilify him and Russia today. Romney called Russia a geopolitical threat to the United States, which Obama made a reference to the 80s calling and wanted their foreign policy back. Those same outlets continued to claim Russia and Putin were not enemies of the United States in any way and went as far as to claim Putin was not the bad guy that the right was portraying. It did not matter how many times anyone on the right pointed out who Putin was, since it was politically convenient to believe he was good for Russia and the United States. Hillary Clinton used the DNC, in violation of campaign finance laws, to funnel money to Michael Steel, who was a former British agent. He was paid millions to have the GRU create false documents about Trump in Russia. Putin would have gotten his cut from the bribes. The documents were rushed and sent back to the DNC in a matter of weeks. It was opposition research for Clinton with no intent on accuracy. Everything that followed, including spying on Americans, were a direct result of documents that were never verified to be factual by anyone. BobRyan
The 1984 reference is apt. 'Newspeak' has been coming out of the White House ever since Trump took office. Old friends are enemies. Old enemies are now friends. The pandemic is a hoax but we should wear masks anyway. Elections are rigged and there is massive voter fraud except when Trump wins and the Russians had nothing to do with it either way. The US intelligence services are our enemy but the Russian GRU is almost as reliable as Fox News. Make sure you have your MAGA hat on straight as Big Trumper is watching you. Seversky
Rioters and looters, excuse me 'peaceful protesters', have a constitutional right to riot and loot? Apparently Orwell's 1984 'newspeak' is no longer fiction. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/curfews-may-not-be-enough-keep-peace-tension-builds-coast-n1221531 bornagain77
The solution is being circulated on facebook. Put pro-Trump make america great again bumper stickers on the protestors' cars. Then watch as they walk by destroying them as they go home. ET
For example, how is this guy threatening federal property, and why is he pepper sprayed when exercising his constitutional rights? https://www.facebook.com/colvid.daorado/videos/10157134335570706 TimR
I still remain amazed that so many people seem ok with the president sending federal troops (or at lease police/agents who look like and behave like troops) to deal with a state matter against the wishes of the city and the federal authorities. Are they really so worried that court building might get damaged? Seems like a pretty insignificant thing to justify the use of federal force against a state. Nobody seemed that worried when those armed hillbillies occupied a federal reserve a couple of years ago (by way of comparison). Aside from which its obviously completely inflamed the protesters and made the situation worse in Portland. TimR
Congratulations. The left has totally lost it. Now they are trying to steal the election by demonstrating they are infants who had better get their way, or else. Cue right-wing paramilitary groups Why is it that these alleged protestors just can't get together, list their grievances and possible solutions? They have the media's attention. It isn't as if they don't have that as a global platform. CNN would be drooling to get their hands on the left-wing manifesto designed to get it right. It would be bigger than Lebron James signing with the Miami Heat 10 years ago. These child-like tantrums pretty much prove they don't have a clue. ET
MMT, this is what is going on: https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1287300892258000898 -- Rioters tore down the steel mesh fence at the court house, are obviously using pyrotechnics and a dazzle laser -- Notice, three officers have been blinded -- The laser and others in other videos are themselves acts of violence and threatened serious, incapacitating bodily harm. -- pyrotechnic devices, notoriously, are capable of serious bodily harm Next: https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1287337566396542976 -- this is a baton charge following a barrage of either smoke or (more likely -- sustained riot and a shield wall of rioters) tear gas -- According to Ngo, this broke the rioters' shield wall, and that charge was not that of a disorganised unskilled rabble. Indeed, it looked like a team play. I count four waves at was it 6 - 8 ft separation [~c 1/4 second intervals?], in column, a mark of deep penetration as intent, with opportunity to fan out. There are also flankers coming in delayed and close to the cams [likely further out too in the cloud], assumed, police cam taking the picture.These are not an untrained rabble whatever somebody says. -- A shield wall is itself a mark of organised rioting and intent to fight police, note, here, organised assembly of same, i.e. we are ooking at organised, backed rioting. -- Notice, the video officer to the side, that serves to counter video ambush tactics. -- observe how the officer nearest holds his long baton as he charges, that is no ignoramus brandishing a club in a threatening manner. It is a defensive stance, amenable to deflecting blows and to making targetted blows to arm or shins, not attempts to hit in the head -- that itself points to discipline and training. So do the uniforms and protective gear. A bit before: https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1287276401033244672 -- Here we see officers defending the mesh wall, with pyrotechnics being thrown by rioters and lasers flashed -- Tear gas canisters are being lobbed to push back from the fence -- A paint ball gun is in use by the officers, likely loaded with pepper balls (I have seen Israeli Naval commandos use the same, to deal with the Turkish blockade breakers a few years ago.) -- I am not sure why a rioter seems to have a blower. In short, no, these officers know what they are doing in the face of organised rioting. Further reason to dismiss the assertions you have been touting. Meanwhile, you still cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that we are seeing marxist front groups acting as red guards. KF kairosfocus
https://apple.news/ASv59JhATSMWpGsFETRxhqA Mac McTavish
It's pretty stupid to think that the highly skilled tactical teams sent to Portland don't know how to control crowds or quell riots. ET
MMT, I have already said enough to adequately answer what is meant as a side tracking tangent; and BTW as a rule very few police will have prior experience with riots, especially riots tied to Marxist insurgency; I spoke to reasonable basic training, which I have no reason to believe relevant officers will not have had. It is sad that a lot of officers are now going to have to build up such experience but the alternatives if things spin out of control will be far worse. Meanwhile, you are still refusing to seriously engage clear evidence of marxist insurgency using Red Guard tactics. That speaks volumes on your motivation, none of it good. KF PS: Meanwhile . . .
DHS Secretary Chad Wolf: The comment from Speaker Pelosi that our law enforcement officers, civil law enforcement officers are stormtroopers, or the Gestapo, or thugs is absolutely irresponsible. It’s dangerous and she should immediately apologize for that.
MMT, I think your source is speaking to something different from what is relevant.
My source is the acting director of Homeland Security. He followed that up with a recommendation that any subsequent action be taken by people appropriately trained, or that his agents be properly trained. That doesn’t sound like someone who thinks it was a good idea to use people for things they are not trained in.
I am sure police are trained as a matter of course in the basic techniques indicated.
That is, again, patently false. The rank-and-file police officer is not used for mass demonstrations and riots. They use a select group of officers who have been specifically trained for this. Mac McTavish
F/N: red herring side tracking also duly noted. I refer to the OP. KF kairosfocus
MMT, I think your source is speaking to something different from what is relevant. I am sure police are trained as a matter of course in the basic techniques indicated. That is enough, for practical purposes under circumstances as they have been allowed to spin up to; lawfare and media lynching attempts to play attack the police games after the fact can and will doubtless also be dealt with in due course; I doubt those playing with the fires already let loose understand what is already playing out. In addition, the institutions can access net centric techniques which are tested for taking out the insurgency elements. And, having seen what chaos and civil war lead to, I think we have very different views of what is needed or appropriate at this point. KF kairosfocus
I have already pointed out that all police will have riot control training,...
This is patently false. Wolf
The highly skilled tactical teams assigned to support the civil unrest and riots do not specifically have training in riot control or mass demonstrations.
MMT, your enabling behaviour is duly noted. KF
How is it enabling to suggest that it is a bad decision to send in federal agents who are not trained in crowd and riot control to handle crowd and riot control? I have stated that I am not opposed to the feds getting involved, just that the way they have done it was very poorly handled. Mac McTavish
MMT, your enabling behaviour is duly noted. I have already pointed out that all police will have riot control training [use of tear gas, protective clothing, batons, unit tactics etc . . . ], and that responses to riots are not going to be the same as to peaceful protest or even disorderly individuals; for cause. There is no basis for the insinuation in your fallacious complex question. At this point, I am forced to infer that only utter passivity and implicit enabling of chaos and what it leads to will satisfy you. Perhaps, you are unaware of where rules of engagement can eventually end up as I gather they did in the 1960's, on ignoring warning to cease and desist, especially from arson and looting or armed attacks, full military response to insurrection. The optics for that would be horrible, but beyond a threshold that is what you are looking at. Current steps are designed to avert that, or worse; full anarchy and multi-sided civil war as in the Balkans. I don't think people realise the fire they are recklessly playing with in response to limited measures. KF kairosfocus
KF, in all of that you still haven’t answered the question whether it was a good idea for Trump to send federal agents into Portland that haven’t been trained in crowd or riot control. Mac McTavish
U/D: I added a vid from a Balkan woman, to the OP. A warning from grim experience. KF kairosfocus
ET, strictly, not anarchists; Red Guards. They want, it is there above, "dictatorship of the proletariat."To that end, "class war." In so many words. I guess they think not enough people are familiar with those terms and their context. Put that with the history of the Red Guards and Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. Then ask, who are the community organisers, who are setting up and running front groups, who are doing operations stuff, who are the strategic folks, who are the funders. That will tell us a lot about what is going on. I suspect, a lot of people will not like to learn the true answers, and the legal zone such open up: sedition, possibly treason (if there is foreign involvement) and worse. And this much on the ground required easily up to a decade of direct preparation with a further generation to subvert the academy, media and education as well as the political-legal-governmental system. Something deep, long term and horrible, tracing to the Frankfurt School (so, their refuge in Columbia University in the 1930's) and other streams, is clearly involved. This is no hurry come up move, some smart, evil folks have been targetting the geostrategic centre of constitutional democracy for a very long time. All the way back, at least, to Lenin and co. Legal positivism with its nihilism is what, over a century old; kill the acceptance of built in moral government and inalienable rights and you have legal plasticity to impose oligarchy from the bench; a trigger for the aggressive slander and lawfare over the past 4 years is obviously the threat to reverse that killing of academic credibility and institutional supplanting, especially tied to the holocaust of the unborn: 800+ million in 40+ years. On the undermining of the Christian faith and its cultural influences, I think a more organic process of apostasy has been at work, for well over a century; that created the opening, the strategic vulnerability. And somewhere out there, I think there are a lot of entangled, compromised people in powerful positions, that is the deep state/swamp element. KF kairosfocus
MMT, there is enough evidence since 1789, and the OP and thread above sufficiently document what the Antifa, BLM, other front groups, Alinsky type community organisers more generally, the critical theory movement, deconstructionism and Frankfurt School culture form long march through the institutions marxism are about. Just, that cuts across what is being pushed by enablers and those hoping to seize power. I think too that there is a difference from having lived through a 4th gen civil war and its aftermath. There are things that are all too instantly and painfully familiar to me that will seem outlandish to you; my homeland paid a terrible price in blood and tears and I was there when Russia sent a delegation, hired a conference centre and publicly apologised for what it had done, instantly corroborating and calibrating who had been right, wrong or deceitful. You have not seen what can be real beyond your seemingly utterly impossible nightmares. My native land is only half way through the 80 years of suffering my Dad projected c 1977; getting up from the foot of the cliff is hard, very hard, especially when you are in intolerable pain and have been misled into going towards a cliff until it collapses underfoot. Do you think the chart in the OP is something I merely cooked up from feverish imagination? You just don't know what it cost. I strongly suggest watching the video linked above by a woman who experienced the Balkan wars. There are some things that are far too costly to learn again the hard way. KF kairosfocus
Who is being oppressed, Mac? How are they being oppressed? Do tell. Mac runs away instead of trying to support its trope. ET
RP : " it was a very transparent ploy to create chaos so that Trump could run as the law and order candidate." So Retired Physicist believes the riots are part of some conspiracy by Trump? Whatever scrap of respect I had for you as a 'retired' physicist has now been thoroughly destroyed! Much like the small businesses were destroyed where these riots have taken place. It is now clear that you are just as blindly partisan as Seversky and the other atheists on UD, regardless of your background in hard science. bornagain77
The people defending the Trump administration‘s behavior in Portland are the enemies of civilization and humanity.
Reality demonstrates that it is the anarchists that are the enemies of civilization and humanity. And anarchy is what we are observing in Portland. ET
All evidence to the contrary.
You forgot the evidence, Mac. Very telling, that. Do you even know what evidence is? ET
RP, that one is old Dr Goebbels' tactic, turnabout false accusation. I challenge you to scroll up to the OP and address why I have argued that c 1450 - 1650, opportunity opened up for sustainable democratic government, which then emerged 1688 - 1787, and in the next 200 years has become the best global balance. Address cultural buffers stabilising democracy i/l/o say Plato's Ship of State and the failure of Athens through the Peloponnesian war and why Democracy had a bad name thereafter for 2,000 years more or less. Why would I be concerned that such buttresses are being destabilised and the likelihood of chaos leading to oligarchy or a direct slide into oligarchy, or even autocracy? Why am I insisting instead that in any reasonably functional democracy, riot and Red Guard mobs are never justified, pointing instead to sounder methods of reformation? Then, kindly explain to us, pray tell, just how someone like that (who isn't particularly fond of a certain contractor in chief) is an enemy of civilisation? Hint, the blunder of projecting fascism and imagining it is a right wing threat doubly fails. KF kairosfocus
LoL! I don’t care who disagrees with me, Mac. I only care about the evidence and the facts.
All evidence to the contrary. Mac McTavish
RP, immediately, arrests for cause made by clearly labelled police issuing in court charges are not unlawful kidnapping; stop enabling willful and destructive slander. Second, no one disputes that soldiers are not police, though there is now incorporation of many policing elements into 4GW indsurgency conflict, multiplied by net centric tactics. The difference is that as kinetic degree ramps up -- notice road blocking rioters are now firing on vehicles with ordinary people in them -- rules of engagement will shift. Your resort to media that describe rioters as protesters tells us all we need to know, none of it favourable to your point of view. I trust all reasonable people will see that it is in the common interest to cease from rioting and will understand that Red Guards games are utterly counter-productive. KF kairosfocus
@Mac McTavish The people defending the Trump administration‘s behavior in Portland are the enemies of civilization and humanity. The “good germans”. https://www.vox.com/2020/7/24/21335887/portland-trump-dhs-federal-polarization Retired Physicist
MMT, that right there is a big part of the problem. Your problem isn't Mr Trump, it is our civilisation. You compare to a utopian ideal then deem it utterly unworthy, so you imagine that radical reforms by revolution will solve the problem. In that context, "consciousness" raising -- another Marxist technique -- justifies itself on the promise of utopia. Ever since 1789 that has repeatedly, bloodily failed and predictably so; over the past 103 years, costing over 100 millions their lives. So, no, you don't get to argue a year zero utopia, you face the burden of that bloody, predictably tyrannical history, and that history clearly tells us NEVER to go there again. As the OP highlights, we can have a reasonable democratic balance of liberty and lawful order, but that is inherently unstable. It can only be stabilised through cultural buttresses, exactly what is being undermined, leading to anarchic chaos and a snap back into oligarchic and/or autocratic tyranny. No, thank you; we will accept that societies formed from finite, fallible, morally struggling, too often ignorant, incapable and ill-willed humans will have room for reform but such needs to be measured and to always recognise the vital importance of cultural buffers. Radicalism and utopianism rejected, for cause and with prudence. That's why the current red guards insurgency will fail but will cause much needless damage in failing. Those who enable or participate in such will have a lot to answer for. Starting, over the next 6 - 18 months. KF PS: Ye old Grauniad is a notorious neo-marxist house. Their choice of "protesters" tells us their bias and the insinuation that sustained riotous conduct does not justify reading the riot act and taking stronger measures than for orderly protest tells us these are at best ill advised enablers of a march of folly. My further comment is, troops are not in use, police are, with backing of experience in dealing with what this is 4GW insurgency, coming out of the institutional (and in many cases likely, personal) experience of Iraq. We already see signs of net centric tactics, identifying, database, tracing networks, capturing and charging key activists not just idiots getting out of hand in the face of police and refusing to comply with lawful instruction to cease or disperse. Where BTW, tear gas is a legitimate tool as are water cannon etc. That's why years ago they were part of court settlements. Riots and chaotic anarchy are civilisation threats and in any reasonably functional democracy there is NEVER an excuse to riot. That is why the enabling media are lying by relabelling riots protests, calling police military troops and comparing to the Gestapo. That's the information battlespace complete with media lynch mobs. Part of what will face a terrible reckoning. kairosfocus
LoL! I don't care who disagrees with me, Mac. I only care about the evidence and the facts. Who is being oppressed, Mac? How are they being oppressed? Do tell. ET
ET <blockquote
There isn’t any oppression going on in Portland or the USA.
Tell that to the millions who disagree with you. Mac McTavish
What a joke. Mac's article talks about the oppressed and how are they supposed to respond to their oppressors. There isn't any oppression going on in Portland or the USA. ET
An interesting article on the use of violence in societal change, and that even in this, white violence is more accepted than black violence. Here is an example:
“There is cause to be thankful even for rebellion. It is an impressive teacher, though a stern and terrible one.... The thing worse than rebellion is the thing that causes rebellion.”
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/612466/ Mac McTavish
Being on the anarchists side of things is always a way to get yourself to ignominy. Being on the side of evolutionism is always a way to get yourself to ignominy. And it always seems the two go together. ET
Moms can be pathetic, ignorant losers, too. ET
Riots are not protests. Burning federal buildings is not protests. What is going on in Portland is not a protest, it is an attempt @ anarchy. What the President should do is blockade the city and only allow those who want to leave it to go. Then let the others feed on each other until it is over. ET
Interesting piece by Dr. James Joyner of the Marine Corps university: https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/cops-arent-soldiers/ Retired Physicist
When we had very real instances of government overreach, unidentified agents kidnapping people into unmarked vans, it wasn’t the gun fetishists who answered the call, it was a bunch of unarmed moms. I think most people already suspected that the gun fetishists were just demonstrating insecurity in the first place. Retired Physicist
Can we all agree one photo does not define a movement?
I would have to disagree. The little Vietnamese girl burned by American napalm, running naked down the street came to define the evils of the US war in Vietnam. The drowned boy washed up on the beach came to define the plight of refugees. A picture can certainly define a moment and movement. But the picture in this OP Definitely isn’t one of those. At best, it is an agit-prop attempt to paint the protests as something they are not. The protests began as Largely peaceful protests over the long standing And unjustified mistreatment of blacks by the police in the US. But because of the stupid decision to send in Homeland Security and border agents, neither trained in crowd or riot control, to try to control crowds and stem riots, the protests have morphed into a protest over the tyrannical overreach of federal authorities. Mac McTavish
@Mac McTavish it was a very transparent ploy to create chaos so that Trump could run as the law and order candidate. It seems to have backfired in Portland, and that’s why Trump said they’re going to send troops to other cities. One of his advisers admitted that they wanted “viral content”. Retired Physicist
Yup, Trumps decision to send in “troops” untrained in crowd control is working great. https://apple.news/AsbeSqnwrREuxHkSEwCFkMQ Mac McTavish
kairosfocus In regards to political parties, neither major American political party has much interest in restoring the Constitution. The reference was in regards to the lies told about Dixiecrats becoming Republican, even though every Dixiecrat state in 1948 voted against Eisenhower in 1952. A lie told often enough is still a lie. I am an American conservative who wants to bring back the Republic to its proper foundation. Limited government cannot allow for those things which liberals use for fear tactics. You cannot have a Church of the United States without violating the 1st Amendment. American Liberals, which are socialists, have no interest in limiting the government at all. What they accuse others of doing is what they are guilty of. BobRyan
kairosfocus Putting activism ahead of ones family makes for poor parenting. God, family, country, then everything else. Anything not in that order is going to cause problems. Margaret Sanger's father had a small shop with few customers. He was a radical socialist, much like his daughter would later become. It's hard to make sales when you don't have customers. He had a tendency of putting ideology above his business, which left his children cold and malnourished. When he did have money, he drank it away. Sanger was baptized in secret due to her father's hatred of Catholicism. Activism should never come at the expense of one's family. Socialists despise anything Judaeo-Christian or Christian, which includes the necessary foundation family provides. BLM has nothing to do with black lives and everything to do with the destruction of the United States. They hate anyone and anything who disagrees with them and are incapable of putting anyone ahead of themselves, which includes their own families. BobRyan
BR, while yes most women are mothers, being a mother caught up in ideological activism does not automatically make one a poor mother. As for Republicans and Democrats, I first note that the fault lines we see do not align with party affiliation, ideology is not party. I would therefore suggest not trying to debate US Parties here, pointless. It is likely, coming scandals and brewing cases will run across party lines. KF kairosfocus
DavidP Just because they claim to be mothers does not make it so. They may be biologically someone's mother, but no more a mother than Margaret Sanger. These are people who put socialism ahead of family and want to destroy Judaeo-Christian values, which includes the family. Democrats have had control in cities across the United States for decades and what has been the end result? Increased violence, increased school dropout rates, increased homeless, increased joblessness, increased destruction of the family. These are all by design by the Democrat party to continue the destruction of the savage races, as Darwin put it in Descent of Man. Democrats are the party of the Klan. The Dixiecrats came about in 1948 and voted against Eisenhower in 1952, since they went back to being Democrats. Segregation started under Democrats like Woodrow Wilson and continued after he died. Franklin Roosevelt was every bit the eugenicist as Wilson was and did nothing to end segregation. Eisenhower, a Republican, ended segregation. BobRyan
LC, yes, the front groups and Red Guards will multiply like rabbits, if unchecked. From evidence, key activists are being targetted by police (who are clearly compiling a database), then are arrested and charged [how they broke bombing networks and the like in Iraq etc], hence the resort to slanderous accusations of kidnapping and Gestapo tactics. Let me add, there is no right to riot or resort to vigilantism. Notice, how quickly so many voices are singing off the same defamatory hymn sheet, that is a clue. That in turn is diagnostic. Mr Ngo is a well known local figure who was hospitalised some years ago while covering similar rioting when he suffered a brain haemorrhage on being hit by a milk shake loaded with fast drying cement. Notice, similar use of frozen water bottles and skateboards as war hammers. Also, putting women to the front of swarm squads intent on mayhem, now with stabbing in play. We have just seen a suspicious execution style murder of a black man for the obvious "crime" of being a Trump supporter while wearing an inconvenient skin colour. We are dealing with manipulators trying to get away with destructive violence by making things look considerably less dangerous than they are. KF kairosfocus
DP, it isn't just "one photo," there is clear documentation showing the culture-form marxist character, and it is in the thread above. What is striking, rather, is the general media suppression of the salient facts and patent import of policy positions of the two key movements (doubtless, there is as usual, a whole ecology involved). In addition, it is quite clear from patterns playing out that we are seeing a 4GW update to the Red Guards in action, comparable to several recent insurgencies in Europe and the Middle East. And no, this is not a place for naive Popperian falsificationism, understanding and applying lessons of history is strategy not science. If you don't understand the difference, you are short several dimensions in this version of chess. RP, FYI, the very first political view I absorbed, literally at mother's knee, was anti-fascism. FYFI, my political credo, quite literally, is the 2nd para of the US DoI, 1776. I would appreciate your taking due note and refraining from invidious and agit prop laced, slanderous invidious associations. You are obviously unaware of the incoherence of the conventional political spectrum and its placement of say the National Socialist German Workers' Party -- the expansion of "Nazi" (and yes, they meant the "socialist") -- as "extreme right." The notion of an extraordinary crisis in which a Nietzschean superman above ordinary law and ethics arises to rescue some key reference group from its plight, and rightly becomes a modern Caesar, dictator for life is frankly the rankest blasphemy, political messianism manifesting the spirit of antichrist. Nor is such a view a novelty, kindly see the Barmen Declaration of 1934. Besides, you will find an in brief in the OP on a much more relevant and historically anchored alternative which is precisely what has me deeply exercised. Do me the courtesy of interacting with what is on the table rather than strawmen. And BTW, use of front groups and face cards is classic marxist agit prop. My personal experience on this includes a certain Committee of Women for Progress calling for price control vigilantism, and triggering the murder of a beloved aunt, then returning to radio to blandly disclaim responsibility for reckless calling for vigilantism. Notice, the close parallel in focus. My further experience is that those caught up in such front groups seldom understand the backdrop or their status as cannon fodder. The Red Guards and Mao's clever Cultural Revolution coup should give us clear pause. Where, as context, we have spent generations as a civilisation undermining the cultural buttresses that stabilise constitutional, representative democracy, and are seeing the classic threat of the repeller pole of anarchic chaos inviting a tumble into the vortex of oligarchic tyranny. In this context, the capture of the academy by Frankfurt School derived, critical studies/theories and deconstruction empowered culture form, long march through the institutions versions of marxism are a key feature of the existential threat we now face, pivoting on the geostrategic centre of our civilisation, the USA. The next 6 - 18 months will be pivotal, painful and I fear, significantly bloody. The US is clearly in the bleeding Kansas stage, with the kinetic element steadily rising. MMT, Essentially all police receive training in riot control. Riot control is not the problem. Riot control in the face of a 5th Column media is. And it is an unsolved problem, globally. Notice, we have seen use of skateboards as war hammers and now several Federal police officers have been blinded with lasers. We also saw co-opted local governments trying to block police officers from using less lethal riot control measures. That in itself is an utterly telling sign of an agit prop agenda. Somebody wants to wave the bloody flag My fear is, the present folly of spin and gaslighting will further accelerate a tumble into chaos and will invite the point where enough feel they have nothing else to lose that we will see resort to the 1,000 yd veto. There is essentially no way to secure all relevant perimeters out to that range. The US is playing with fire. KF kairosfocus
Can we all agree one photo does not define a movement? One photo may capture or surmise an event. But it is an injustice to define an entire group of people based on one photo. Especially one which goes against what the majority are saying. -Kairosfocus Good point, in the Floyd case they were arrested. However, people have a right to protest abusive police. Protesting is patriotic. Thanks for the history lesson on Mao. I have no doubt red guard tactics were used and it was horrible. However, it is not right to equivocate a protest with an insurrection. Nobody is trying to overthrow the government. The mayor of Portland was among the protesters. Those Moms were not an unruly mob either. "...is not representative of typical or common policing behaviour". I totally disagree. Their behavior is very common. That is why people are protesting. Protests are leading to police changing their policies on choke holds. If something is police policy it is typical or common behavior. "In short, what was done to ID and to Creationism are precisely a manifestation of the same tactics" Seems we are making the same point but differ in semantics. Can we agree it is bad tactics slap an erroneous label on something in lieu of actually making a case against it? - BobRyan I get it Marxists/anarchists/BDS/Goebbels/communists/anti-semitism/abortion is bad. What has all of that to do with Moms protesting police abuse? If your tactic is to slap a label on these Moms and let that label make the case for you I am not persuaded. That one photo speaks to the opinion of less than a dozen out of thousands. -Kairosfocus & BobRyan Is there anything that would convince you those Moms protesting abuse is just Moms protesting abuse? David P
Being on the fascist side of things is always a way to get yourself to ignominy. I think that’s probably why so many people here choose pseudonyms. Of course, you’ve always got elderly people whining about the gays, and they are one step out. Life gets better one death at a time. Retired Physicist
“ ill . Trying to discredit and marginalize the BLM protests as the product of some shadowy, monolithic “Culture-Form Marxist” conspiracy, belittling the “moms” in Portland, who have interposed themselves between the police and the more volatile protesters in order to prevent violence,” Like the guy said, there are a whole lot of fascists who don’t realize they’re fascist until it happens. Sad that there are so many Good Germans in America. Too bad conservatives are cowards. Retired Physicist
KF and ET, do you think it wise to send heavily armed federal agents who have had no training in handling large crowds and protests into Portland? To me, that sounds like a very bad decision. Mac McTavish
KF @29 Now Antifa is producing lines of "Veterans" supporting their violent effort to establish a communist hegemony. They will continue to scrounge around for some group of supporters that can't be denigrated or discounted due to their unassailable social status. Next it will probably be orphaned children. @MrAndyNgo on twitter provides an accurate look at what the front line looks like in Portland. Antifa and crew are no doubt working hard to discover who he really is so they can deal with him on a personal level. As the Portland PD has been handicapped in dealing with violent protests, by not being allowed to use common crowd control devices like CS gas or non-lethal munitions, if there were no Federal LEO presence at the Federal courthouse it would be an empty burned out shell by now. Police departments in other cities, such as Seattle, are also being hamstrung by their civil leadership. The Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best in her own words to the officers on her force: "Simply put, I cannot ask any of you to do this work limited only to your sidearm, baton, and body as tools. These are not tools that are reasonable in modern policing for crowd control." Reading between the lines of this nothing good will occur in Seattle this weekend. There is a meme on the internet "some people just want to watch the world burn" and all joking aside, this is becoming more apparent every day. Some people seem to think that out of the ashes some other society will magically arise and everyone will live better lives without struggle or want. The only thing lacking for this movement to have a Kairos is that there is no national leader controlling it. There are too many competing interests among the left involved for there to be any wide or unified support. As an example, a left leaning journalist asked Jalil Abdul Muntaqim, a 1970's Black Panther serving a life sentence for murder, what he thought about BLM. He said there was no ideology there that he could get behind. BLM is not your 70's radical leftist movement. Their insistence on inclusion of the LGBTQ+ agenda sets them apart from other Black civil rights organizations. Here in the South, we have a new Black rights organization, the Not eFfing Around Coalition, or NFAC. The NFAC organizes marches of armed supporters with many real military veterans. One look at them no doubt makes the BLM founders, and Antifa, tremble. BLM is just a slogan and not any meaningful or organized movement for anyone's civil rights. As Marxists they are also gun grabbing leftists. Antifa are unhappy millennial miscreants with little knowledge of anything outside their own miserable existence. They think guns are inherently evil. Neither are equipped to deal with the kind of civil unrest they want to produce. The NFAC being a prime example. LoneCycler
ET, actually fairly unlikely. Unless serious killings begin or media and big names go too far, then it's rule 6.5 mm and the 1,000 yard veto. Problem is, they easily are that foolish. KF kairosfocus
I'm waiting for some right-wing civilian militia to show up. ET
ET, worse, communist subversives exploiting the pain of a once enslaved and long oppressed race; mine. Ruthless, demonic betrayers of the deeply wounded. My very name tells me what I need to understand about such. KF kairosfocus
I wouldn’t paint the feds as the bad guys. Just that they have made bad decisions.
Not yet, anyway. The people are the problem
But assaulting and injuring peaceful protesters to get at them is self-defeating.
They shouldn't be there mixing with the violent losers
You may get the guilty person but you create tons of negative press and create more distrust of the police and government.
The USA is so great even the crybabies want to stay. The press is a bunch of biased babies. ET
BLM protests? They looted and destroyed minority owned businesses in Minneapolis Including black owned businesses. They are akin to rabid skunks and racoons. ET
KF@39, I repeat, we will just have to agree to disagree. I am comfortable with that. The world would be a very boring place if we all agreed. Mac McTavish
Sev, turnabout projection fails. The connexions are demonstrated and documented. See my remark just now to MMT to see where I read this as heading. Marches of folly -- unsurprisingly -- tend to lead to disaster. And, BTW, I don't like a certain contractor in chief but understand why an exasperated public put him into office. The dynamics that are playing out are far beyond any one personality, we are -- astonishingly -- seeing the return of Marxism as civilisation-level 4GW strategic threat. Not, coming from the Red Guard Cannon fodder but from those using them as storm troops and seeking to utterly dominate the main pillars of influence that hold up a dominant worldview and cultural/policy agenda bent on utter folly. Remember what Herr Schicklegruber did to the SA once their usefulness was past. KF kairosfocus
MMT, if you imagine I am trying to persuade you, you are missing at least 1 - 2 dimensions in this version of chess. Kindly note, this isn't my first rodeo: I am an eyewitness to Communist Insurgency triggered civil war and its aftermath to 40 years to date. At this point it is obvious that you are impervious to evidence, including direct evidence on what sort of insurgents are at work. That is very familiar to me, as is the attempt to divert into a personality-based tangent. The sad truth is, only pain will wake up too many, and a significant fraction a full generation later will still be in denial. The facts of the OP are established, further context for those who need it has been drawn out and that is enough. That there will be many in denial is a less than happy expectation, but it is just that: as expected. I will give a prediction: as outrageous lawlessness and anti-civilisation planks have been nailed into a major party platform, a lot of eyes have been opened. Over the next six months, that party will most likely suffer a heavy and to them unexpected loss. Street chaos will go up, but that is good, the problem will then be utterly undeniable and those who expended political capital on a march of folly will be in no position to be good people in the storm. Here is my context for that. Over the following year, the crisis will break, and I believe, in favour of our civilisation; though severe, permanent harm and loss will have needlessly happened. KF kairosfocus
A Riot Human Shield — The Face Of C21, 4GW Culture-Form Marxist Insurgency
It is instructive to note that, while you continually decry so-called "Alinskyite" tactics for manipulating public narratives and disparaging opponents, you seem to have no difficulty in adopting them when the need arises and deploying them with an imporessive skill . Trying to discredit and marginalize the BLM protests as the product of some shadowy, monolithic "Culture-Form Marxist" conspiracy, belittling the "moms" in Portland, who have interposed themselves between the police and the more volatile protesters in order to prevent violence, as Antifa stooges seems to be straight out of the Alinsky playbook. As for being the face of a "C21, 4GW" insurgency capable of bringing down Western civilization, I believe you are missing the mark very badly. If I were to go to my local shooting-range and fire two shots from a pistol, I might hope to put two holes into a paper target but I would not expect to devastate a number of European nations, cause a centuries-old monarchy and a ramshackle empire to collapse into revolution and ruin and bankrupt a third. Yet this is what followed when self-proclaimed Yugoslav nationalist Gavrilo Princip fired two rounds from an FN Model 1910 .380 semi-automatic pistol and killed Austrian ArchDuke Franz Ferdinand and his wife on 28 June 1914 in the city of Sarajevo. Why the difference in the two outcomes? Simply that the shots fired by Princip led to the catastrophic release of pent-up social, political and economic tensions that had been building for years beforehand throughout the continent. The minority groups in the United States have endured the most egregious marginalization, discrimination and persecution - up to and including lynchings - for centuries, most of it committed with impunity by members of the majority white population. The bloodletting of the Civil War purged some of that anger but, in spite of the passage of the 13th Amendment, a recalcitrant South soon reasserted its racist propensities which continue to this day. A string of killings of black people by mostly white police in what were, to put it mildly, questionable circumstances have brought people of all ethnic backgrounds to the point of agreeing "enough is enough". If you ignore that, if you pretend that it is not the surfacing of anger over longstanding social, political and economic inequalities, then you risk bringing about the kind of catastrophe you hope to avert. Of course, the elephant in the room, is the presence in the White House of some one who is displaying alarming autocratic tendencies which you prefer to downplay or ignore. This is man who, even before he was elected said on 23 January 2016 "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters." And he was right. This is a man who has denigrated and insulted longstanding allies while fawning over some of the worst dictators currently on this planet. This is a man who wallows in the adulation of evangelical Christian leaders who are themselves a measure of how venal and morally depraved some manifestations of the faith have become in this country. More significantly, Trump's remark in 2016 was born out indirectly by the farcical impeachment trial before a Senate dominated by a craven and compliant Republican majority. A Senate which had made it clear beforehand that under no circumstances would they vote to convict. A Senate whose Republican leaders boasted about cooperating with the White House about the hearing. Tell us, in what regular criminal trial do the leaders of the jury connive with the defendant to rig the outcome of the case? In what regular criminal trial does the jury decide what evidence is to be admitted and which witnesses shall be heard? You protest loudly at perceived threats to the rule of law and order and yet let slide one of the most brazen examples of manipulating the process for personal gain in recent times. It doesn't stop there, however. We see how, with the connivance of conservative legal groups, he has installed what he believes are sympathetic judges on the bench of courts low and high. How are we to trust the courts to administer justice fairly and impartially when the person on the bench is there because they are judged to be a Trump partisan? We see how he has appointed a bunch of corrupt cronies to the high offices of state. We see how he appoints acting officials to a wide range of lower positions no doubt because it makes it easier to remove them at will if they displease him in some way and avoids lengthy and - in his view - timewasting Senate confirmation hearings. Moreover, these appointees are there because he believes they are loyal to him personally rather than the Constitution of the United States. Is there any doubt that Trump, if he thought he could get away with it, would change the oath of allegiance to the United States to an oath of allegiance to him personally, just as Hitler did in Germany in 1934? This is a man who clearly regards the restraints on Presidential power crafted into the US Constitution by the Founding Fathers as no more than frustrating impediments to his unfettered exercise of that power. This is a man who has simply brushed aside previous so-called "norms" of acceptable political behavior and is pushing the legal boundaries as far as they will go. This is a man who, to get around problems with sending Federal troops against US citizens has, with the connivance of his compliant AG and minions at the relevant departments of state, cobbled together what he no doubt regards as a private army of officers from a number of Federal law enforcement agencies. And lest there be any doubt that these officers will do his bidding - or what his bidding could become - I remind you of what a force of regular armed infantry, cavalry and tanks under the command of Douglas MacArthur, George Patton and Dwight Eisenhower did to the so-called "Bonus Army", a peaceful protest by a large number of unarmed World War One veterans and their families on 28 July 1934. Those actions stand in my mind as a permanent stain on the reputations of those officers. But if Trump ever comes to believe he can get away with the same then I believe he will certainly do it, if only to look tough. in the eyes of his political base. Are there groups on both left and right who are trying to exploit these protests to serve their own political agendas? Of course there are. That will always be the case until we find a better way of doing things. Is there some vast, shadowy and powerful Marxist conspiracy bent on world domination behind these protests. No, of course not. Most people in this country have no idea what Marxism means beyond being something evil that all good Christians should ward off by making the sign of the cross. As for critical whatever theory, it may well have merit if it means taking a long hard look at behavioral and cultural norms that have disadvantaged a large section of the population but they are derived from a European school of philosophy typically expressed in a prose so impenetrable that virtually no one outside of their little group could understand what the hell they were saying. To suggest that such fringe groups alone could bring about a revolution in the United States is such an absurd over-estimation of their relative power as to be a conspiracy theory. What will do irreparable damage to the polity of the United States is an occupant of the Oval Office so amoral and corrupted by personal wealth and ambition that he comes to view the country as his personal fiefdom. He is already dropping heavy hints that he might reject the outcome of the next election if it doesn't go his way. He clearly respects and envies the likes of Kim Jong-Un, President Putin and President Xi, each of whom has arranged to be the permanent and absolute authority in their respective states just as Hitler and Stalin and Mao did before them. I have no doubt that this man has the ambition to become the sort of totalitarian leader that has caused - and continues to cause - so much oppression and suffering elsewhere in the world. I regard the protesters in Portland and elsewhere, including the Antifa sympathizers as being in a sense on the front line of resistance to a nascent tyranny in this country and it does you no credit to disparage and marginalize what they are standing for and standing against. Seversky
KF, I have noted that anyone you can’t convince of the truth of your opinion is labeled as having zero credibility. ET
To try to spin that so the feds are the bad guys is just ignorant desperation.
I wouldn’t paint the feds as the bad guys. Just that they have made bad decisions. Obviously, any protester that uses violence and property damage, or incites others to do so, is a criminal and should be charged. But assaulting and injuring peaceful protesters to get at them is self-defeating. You may get the guilty person but you create tons of negative press and create more distrust of the police and government. I am not saying that the feds have no role to de-escalate the situation, just that the role they have adopted is counter-productive. Mac McTavish
MMT, you are enabling at this point. Credibility duly reckoned at zero. KF kairosfocus
The question is NOT if the situation is better or worse. The question is who is causing it to be worse. And it is obvious that it is the same people who were the cause for the feds to step in in the first place. To try to spin that so the feds are the bad guys is just ignorant desperation. ET
KF, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this subject. Mac McTavish
MMT, insofar as they mark a standing up to clear insurgency, rather than passivity in the face of sustained riots, that is a positive step: defending law and order. Of course, those who are caught up in the wave of what has been going on will not acknowledge that. That does not change the fact. KF kairosfocus
KF, none of this answers the following question: Has the federal response made things better or worse? Mac McTavish
MMT, in this context, using troops with or without quotes is enabling a slander. The uniforms were clearly marked police, and a court process is currently in train; the charge in context is obvious, rioting . . . though I would prefer the old fashioned UK style reading the riot act then ordering dispersal and promptly following up with adequate, effective force. Oh yes, the attempt to block police from using less lethal, riot control weaponry is duly noted. I understand, there has been a problem of doxxing police officers too -- which is criminal intimidation. You seem to be taking at face value claims of media etc voices that on track record of the past several years have no credibility; at this point, I would not take "the sky is blue" from such at face value. No, peaceful assembly is not rioting involving arson, assault with missiles (bricks, frozen water bottles fast setting cement loaded milk shakes, etc) the use of war hammers (a long skateboard used as a club is far more dangerous as it has metal protrusions). Looting is not peaceful protest. Just in: using a power saw to cut through a police barrier is not peaceful protest. Destroying places of business is not peaceful protest. Hitting elderly people with knuckle dusters is not peaceful protest. Swarming and battering mothers is not peaceful protest. Jump-kicking a little girl in IIRC the head is not peaceful protest. Blocking traffic, swarming and beating people, clubbing people, shooting people are also not peaceful protest; which have all happened over the past several months. I must also note that I have taken time to further document the ideological connexions at work. KF kairosfocus
The federal response has been tame. Police officers and federal officers have been pelted with rocks, bottles of ice and Molotov cocktails. I am surprised people haven't been shot. The democrats are to blame for this mess. They are the whiny losers in the USA. ET
in easily shown fact, there are no federal troops sent in, but only Federal policing officers from DHS.
That is why I put “troops” in quotations. Police must identify themselves. Police must notify you of why you are being arrested. Police don’t put arrested suspects in unmarked rental vans. Police don’t (or shouldn’t) fire tear gas or beanbags at crowds that are causing no harm. All of this has been documented for these federal “police”. You should be reminded that it is not an offence to hold signs with anarchy symbols in them, Nazi flags or confederate flags. Their presence is not justification for using tear gas. A gas, by the way, that does not come risk free. I am not opposed to some level of federal response. But the federal response has been excessive, only made worse by the words of Trump and the acting director of Homeland Security. Mac McTavish
FWIW: A local journalist (and longstanding critic of Antifa who was hit in the head with a cement loaded "milkshake" and hospitalised with a brain haemorrhage) : https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1285839279843753985
Andy Ngô @MrAndyNgo I recognize a lot of the so-called “moms” as the same antifa women who dressed in black as recent as a couple days ago. They just put on a yellow shirt now for optics. Most of these people aren’t mothers & many don’t even identify as female. #PortlandRiots
(Notice a very familiar sign in the video.) Worth pondering. FYI, street theatre for media amplification is a longstanding part of agit prop. KF kairosfocus
MMT, kindly see the just above. KF kairosfocus
F/N: I have added to the OP, some summary clips from red spark dot ru, an Antifa supporting site that tries to rationalise Antifa:
Since its original emergence in the early 1920s, fascism as an ideology and a movement has been met with fierce opposition. From the very beginning, communists (along with other leftists) have taken up the cause to not simply resist, but to actively oppose and crush fascism wherever it has cropped up. One such organization, the Roter Frontkämpferbund (“Red Front Fighters’ League”), was formed in 1924 by the German Communist Party as a paramilitary organization to carry out militant antifascist work. In order to continue their militant antifascist work after the Roter Frontkämpferbund was banned, the German Communist Party formed another organization which was the first to bear the name Antifascist Action. Antifaschistische Aktion operated until its demise in 1933 under the violent repression of the Nazi regime, which itself was defeated by the Soviet Red Army in 1945. A significant resurgence of fascism began in the late 1970s and early 1980s as more white nationalist organizations began to emerge and grow in numbers as capitalism found itself once again in crisis . . . . As this militant, white-supremacist fascism began to grow during the 1980s, so did the resurgence of militant anti-fascism. Groups adopting the name Anti-Fascist Action (AFA) in the UK and Europe and Anti-Racist Action (ARA) in North America started to appear—the first being the AFA in London, England (1985) and ARA in Minneapolis, USA (1988). While these organizations have often included fighting sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, and other forms of oppression within their mandate, combating street-level fascism has been their primary focus. Like the organizations of the 1920s and ‘30s, these AFA and ARA groups (or simply antifa, as they are colloquially known) consisted of communists, anarchists, and other non-aligned leftists brought together for the express purpose of confronting and preventing local fascist organizing . . . . Fighting fascism is direly important—like fighting police violence, environmental destruction, homelessness, etc. is direly important—but you can’t cure a disease by chasing after the symptoms alone. Defeating street-level fascists does not by itself stop those fascists who are moving amongst the ruling class any more than stopping one pipeline saves a body of water from contamination by other extractive industries. To ultimately solve these problems is to wage a much larger war. As these issues are all symptoms of capitalism, the solution is found in working class organizing in order to take power and thus dictate the society in which we wish to live. We will only do this by connecting anti-fascist, anti-racist, anti-colonial, anti-patriarchal, pro-environment organizing with revolutionary anti-capitalist organizing aimed towards achieving the dictatorship of the proletariat.
It should be quite clear what this is. Especially as "dictatorship of the proletariat" -- the goal of class warfare on the way to the ever-receeding utopian golden age of Communism -- is a self-description of Communist regimes. I refer to Havel's Power of the Powerless to see what that entails. We are NOT dealing with strawman caricatures. KF kairosfocus
PPS: Here is Britannica online on critical theory:
Critical theory, Marxist-inspired movement in social and political philosophy originally associated with the work of the Frankfurt School. Drawing particularly on the thought of Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud, critical theorists maintain that a primary goal of philosophy is to understand and to help overcome the social structures through which people are dominated and oppressed. Believing that science, like other forms of knowledge, has been used as an instrument of oppression, they caution against a blind faith in scientific progress, arguing that scientific knowledge must not be pursued as an end in itself without reference to the goal of human emancipation. Since the 1970s, critical theory has been immensely influential in the study of history, law, literature, and the social sciences.
Read between the lines of this sanitised, genteel discussion. This report will give a more strategic appraisal. kairosfocus
F/N: Let us presume the linked Antifa Manual (allegedly found on some uni campus) is satirical parody; though, some out there on YT etc are actually trying to promote it and its teachings. But then, we have to ask, why does it ring so close to the truth? That should be food for thought, on when satire is hard to tell from reality. When it comes to BLM, I clip:
Niger Innis, the spokesman for the Congress of Racial Equality, blasted the Black Lives Matter movement for what he sees as “hard truths” about the group’s agenda.“They take their instructions, their guidance from the Marxist playbook,” Innis, who is black, said to Laura Ingraham about the Black Lives Matter movement this week. “Look, I’m going to tell some hard truths that people aren’t going to want to hear.”“The BLM movement, Black Lives Matter movement, was founded by Alicia Garza and a number of other co-founders that were promoting a hard Marxist and LGBT agenda,” Innis continued.“Look, I don’t have a problem with people exercising their First Amendment rights. You have the right to organize, you have the right to protest, you have the right to come up with an agenda. But I’ll be [snip] if you use the suffer[ing] and misery of black Americans and our legacy to the United States of America as your shield and use us as cannon fodder when your agenda really has not a [snip] thing to do with saving black lives.”Innis acknowledged that many of the protesters enraged by the death of George Floyd are innocent and mean well but are “misguided.”Niger Innis, son of the late Roy Innis, a black American activist and politician, criticized the Black Lives Matter push to defund the police and argued that the group has its sights set on eliminating Western values as a whole.“If you look at their agenda, defunding the police, that would put black lives in danger,” Innis warned. “But it’s even more than that, Laura. They have, as a part of their platform, on their own website that we want to disrupt — disrupt! — the Western-prescribed nuclear family.”“They want to overthrow capitalism. They want to overthrow Western civilization, and they see America as the biggest clear and present danger to fulfilling that agenda, and they are using black people to do it.”
I think, perhaps, we need to pause and reconsider. KF PS: I note from NBC, a list of six planks of the BLM official platform:
The six platform demands are: 1. End the war on black people. [--> projection of a slander, there is no war against people who are black; this is blood libel] 2. Reparations for past and continuing harms. [--> The reparations demand is a polarising impracticality that refuses to acknowledge or work with programmes that are feasible and would be effective, start with the UN sponsored 0.7% of GDP for targetted aid that is in the OECD] 3. Divestment from the institutions that criminalize, cage and harm black people; and investment in the education, health and safety of black people. [--> continuing on the slander, implication here is, abolish police, an anti-civilisation move. Likewise, prisons are not to be equated with cages. We need to ask pointed questions on managing criminality and preserving civil society.] 4. Economic justice for all and a reconstruction of the economy to ensure our communities have collective ownership, not merely access. [--> in short, direct endorsement of Marxist Socialism, refusing to recognise the failure of that system or how it cost 100 million lives] 5. Community control of the laws, institutions and policies that most impact us. [--> Democracy already gives community control, this is a demand to put Red Guards in charge of policing etc. The 4am knock on the door and a trip to the gulag are predictable consequences] 6. Independent black political power and black self-determination in all areas of society. [--> demand to set up black ideologue controlled zones] To achieve those demands the group offered a set of solutions that include the demilitarization of police [--> the demand is to ABOLISH by defunding] and an end to systemic attacks on black youth [--> this is "systematic" racism, a critical theory, deconstructionist Kafkaesque maze], including black members of the LGBTQ community. They call for the passing of state and federal laws that acknowledge and address the impacts of slavery and the passage of H.R. 40 to form a commission to study reparations proposals. Another of the recommendations calls for the “retroactive decriminalization and immediate release of all people convicted of drug offenses, sex work-related offenses and youth offenses.” [--> a slander against the justice system and a move that would create a surge in criminality without sound policing and courts]
Is this what we really should support or enable? kairosfocus
DP, Pardon, but Mr Floyd's case, horrible though it was, is not representative of typical or common policing behaviour and within days the officers involved were charged; they are under due process of law as we speak, and there may be more to the story and its context than meets the public eye. With all due respect, the photograph in the OP illustrates something quite different and absolutely pivotal; something, that apparently there is refusal to face -- that is why it is necessary to headline it. Namely, that Marxism is not only not dead, but is resurgent and is coming at us through culture-form long march through the culture and institutions, through academy-domination by so-called critical theories generally tracing to the Frankfurt School and also with clear admixture of post modern deconstruction techniques. In that context, it is unsurprising to see calls for class warfare using the indisputable symbol for Antifa. Which in turn pivots on characterising those who differ with the agenda enough to object or question, with the slanderous tag, fascist/nazi. So, no, for cause I do not buy the attempt to make an analogy between smearing ID with Biblical Creationism in an attempt to tag it as . . . right wing christofascist, theocratic terrorism and tyranny. Surprise, the critical theory and deconstruction slander tactics were lurking there all along. In short, what was done to ID and to Creationism are precisely a manifestation of the same tactics. KF PS: apparently, you are unfamiliar with Mao's Cultural Revolution coup from 1966 - 76, which used the Red Guards as foot soldiers to create mob rule and recapture power he had lost through discrediting himself through the failed great leap forward. Let me simply put Wiki on the table as a quick, testimony against interest 101. Remember, this is what they cannot but acknowledge, there is a lot more there:
Red Guards (simplified Chinese: ???; traditional Chinese: ???; pinyin: Hóng Wèib?ng) was a mass student-led paramilitary social movement mobilized and guided by Chairman Mao Zedong in 1966 through 1967, during the first phase of the Chinese Cultural Revolution, which he had instituted.[1] According to a Red Guard leader, the movement's aims were as follows: Chairman Mao has defined our future as an armed revolutionary youth organization.... So if Chairman Mao is our Red-Commander-in-Chief and we are his Red Guards, who can stop us? First we will make China Maoist from inside out and then we will help the working people of other countries make the world red...and then the whole universe.[2] Despite being met with resistance early on, the Red Guards received personal support from Mao, and the movement rapidly grew. Mao made use of the group as propaganda and to accomplish goals such as destroying symbols of China's pre-communist past, including ancient artifacts and gravesites of notable Chinese figures. Moreover, the government was very permissive of the Red Guards, and even allowed the Red Guards to inflict bodily harm on people viewed as dissidents. The movement quickly grew out of control, frequently coming into conflict with authority and threatening public security until the government made efforts to rein the youths in.
(Perhaps, you do not know that I lived through a 4th Gen Civil War in my native land, at the turn of the '80's. What I am seeing is all too familiar.) kairosfocus
MMT, in easily shown fact, there are no federal troops sent in, but only Federal policing officers from DHS. (I add, specific arrested individuals have just been charged for itemised rioting related offences.) This has been willfully mischaracterised by activists, pols and the enabling media, in order to feed a patently false narrative of a fascist coup. By the principle of exposed turnabout projection [such projection being a major agit prop stratagem], one can readily see that they are very aware that in putting red guards on the streets to bully and riot, they have crossed a terrible threshold. A key insight is to recognise that in reality, Fascism and Nazism -- National Socialist German Workers' Party -- were statist, socialist politically messianistic and often nihilistic in character. This is part of why I am insisting on correcting the many flaws in the outdated L/R political spectrum, where while there is an identifiable, predominantly marxist left (Marxism became the dominant form of socialism in mid-late C19) that traces to the days of where one sat in the French Assembly, right has deteriorated into little more than disagreeing with the left viewed as centre of gravity of politics and policy. Then, as to those caught up, the ideology of the left is almost self-evidently true, of course, those who differ are incoherent, stupid, ignorant, insane, racist/fascist, sexist, anti-LGBT+ etc, or just plain evil. So, the position self-reinforces by undermining serious discussion on the merits, polarising society and building up to 4th gen civil war or at least insurgency. This is a grave error and obscures the real issues of liberty, justice and the need to buttress democratic systems opened up through the waves of change between c 1450 (invention of movable type alphabetic printing) and 1688 - 1787, the Glorious Revolution (with Bill of Rights) and the American Constitution. It is a terrible sign when for weeks people and local politicians are supine in the face of Red Guards running literal riot and their backers, with local police on obvious stand down orders and then when protective actions are taken against the mob, the accusation is that checking the mob is incipient tyranny. Democracy is not mob rule and genuinely peaceful protests are not arsonous rioting, looting, defacing, destroying symbols of a civilisation ranging to churches, statues of saints, statues of great writers, abolitionists and the flawed but great men who struck off the pivotal reframing of democracy with safeguards and cultural buttressing that opened up a modern world of freedom with good, reformable order. Where, once one allows peaceful protests (against what, on what sound warrant, with what reasonable proposals for reform) to be infiltrated by rioting and as one continues to go along, one becomes an enabler of the rioting. This actually discredits whatever was reasonable in one's protests. I repeat, the USA is a reasonably functioning democracy, with many means of peaceful assembly, petition, argument, negotiation and more, locally and federally. There is no excuse for rioting, blocking traffic, assaulting passers by, mayhem, arson, attacking police doing the thankless job of law enforcement, shooting, murder, mob rule. All of which have been happening. So, no, I do not buy attempts to induce us to disbelieve our "lyin' eyes." I think, the name for this move beyond mere spin is gaslighting. Our obvious breakdown in the face of chaos is a dangerous sign and over the next 6 - 18 months, we have a chance to get back to sound ground. If we fail, our civilisation will descend into a dark night of Cultural Revolution championed by Red Guards running riot through our streets and institutions, to the advantage of their sponsors. We have 6 - 18 months. KF kairosfocus
DavidP: You say we should not polarize what has already been polarized. We should not distort what has already been distorted. Black Lives Matter, just not all black lives. Millions have been murdered in the womb under the guise of women's rights. We have reached a point where more black children are aborted than born. Black on black violence are more black lives lost that do not matter to BLM. It does not matter how many die this weekend in cities across the United States, since it does not fit an agenda. There are close to 1,000,000 police officers in the United States of varying races, religions, national origin and sex. Statistics prove a white male is more likely to be shot by police than anyone else, but it does not fit an agenda. BDS is an organization within American colleges and universities. They have a goal of isolating Israel and leaders who have gone on record saying Jews are not human and Israel has no right to exist under any circumstances. Jews are more likely to be assaulted on campuses than anywhere else, yet it does not fit the agenda and ignored by much of the media. Venezuela went from being the wealthiest country in their region to a starving populace. The suffering and dead do not matter, since it does not fit the agenda. It is every bit as ignored by the media as anti-Semitism in the United States. The left despises Israel and proudly continues Goebbels' work. Israel is the only democracy in the region, which is more than enough for leftists. Other leftists hate Israel for being a Jewish state. The Democratic party continues to be home to anti-Semites, just as it always has. BobRyan
George Floyd cried out for his mother moments before he died. Moms across the country said they would answer the call and be a shield for the protesters. The vast majority of those Moms are there for that reason. So someone found one picture with marxist/anarchist words. What foolishness it is to label an entire organization marxist/anarchist based on one picture. Remember Of Pandas and People? Doesn't matter it was one book. ID theorists are labeled creationists. Doesn't matter how many times the distinction between the two is pointed out. Doesn't matter how many times it is pointed out to be a red herring. Doesn't matter how many books they write about actual science. Doesn't matter it is wrong, people still use the label. It is amazing how well ID proponents are at recognizing this injustice when it is perpetrated against them, yet so blind when they do it to others. Kairosfocus: "They are taking them seriously in context" Nope. According to you they are mounting an insurrection. According to themselves they are Moms protesting violence. Is isn't right to allow a critic to define a movement anymore than it is to allow a critic of ID theory to define ID theory. Does this sound familiar? "...the sort of rhetorical stunt you just tried will be little more than a red herring distraction led away to a strawman caricature poisoned with demonisation and set alight to poison, cloud, polarise and distort the atmosphere." https://uncommondesc.wpengine.com/intelligent-design/intelligent-design-creationism-as-a-label/ Red guards on the rampage is nameless, faceless red herring. Nothing more than a label to dehumanize these people. They are protesting injustices not mounting an insurrection. We shouldn't polarize and distort the atmosphere. David P
I remember few riots when soccer match wouldn't go as expected back in my younger days in Europe. Police would use water cannons to quickly break a riot front line and create chaos. Then they would run after wet and confused rioters and beat them up. If rioter would dare to regroup police would just spray them again and repeat the rest. It would be nice to see use of water cannons here in N.America more often. Antifa and similar groups wouldn't have much fun blocking highways or burning buildings Eugen
If this truly is an organized Marxist/anarchist orchestrated situation, as KF claims, then the Federal government is playing right into their playbook. By sending in federal “troops”, all they have done is turned more moderates into radicals. Even people who would never think of joining a protest become mobilized when they see fully equipped federal agents firing tear gas and bean-bag munitions into crowds of largely peaceful protesters. The government’s rhetoric of labelling peaceful protesters as “violent anarchists” only makes the situation worse. Mac McTavish
SAZ, you raise a troubling concern, as yes civilisations and systems rise and fall, mostly through cultural suicide. You have linked a significant effort to understand such and I will take a look at it. Samizdat by pdf is part of the counterculture we need to build. KF PS: This is a useful point of beginning:
The story of hieroglyphic decipherment, which the Rosetta stone made possible, is one of immense scholarship and ingenuity. However, there is something else remarkable as well. This is that Egyptian civilisation could have degenerated to the point where it could no longer read its own writing . . . . Today pharaonic Egypt conjures up images of empty tombs, silent statues and museum cases full of chipped and dusty objects. It may seem only natural that it should be no more. Yet for three thousand years this civilisation was a living and enduring reality. Today its demise is familiar and unexceptional. Yet people living in the heyday of the pharaohs would have found it inconceivable that they could end up as a rather backward society, living in a land of ruins. They had acquired a phenomenal head start in the methods and benefits of civilised living. It must have seemed inevitable that their highly developed nation would forever overshadow the obscure peoples of north-western Europe. The fact that there was a massive turnaround demands some attention. Pharaonic civilisation was, after all, the epitome of durability. It spanned the period from the beginning of the third millennium BC to the second century AD.3 At the exodus of the Jews in 1500 BC, 4 a seemingly remote time before even the Ten Commandments had been handed down, the pharaonic state was at the mid-point of its existence . . .
DP, nope. We are taking them seriously in context. These women are being caught up in and used by Red Guards as 4GW foot soldiers, specifically as human shields to protect arsonists and rioters who have been repeatedly attacking a court building. Where riot is happening, continued participation by "peaceful" protesters becomes enabling behaviour and effective endorsement. Where, in context, the US is generally speaking a reasonably functional constitutional republic of significantly democratic character. That means, there are many effective means of protest and reformation within the ambit of law that respect the civil peace of justice. Riot, looting, burning, blocking roads, assaulting, battering, shooting or just intimidating people and similar tactics are completely unjustified. The truth is, resort to Red Guard tactics is a mark of an insurgency designed to create the threat of mob rule dominated chaos, thus a push into oligarchic domination by the lawless backers of the insurgency. What we are seeing is anti civilisational and exploitive of these women and many others as, frankly, expendable cannon fodder. We need to reframe our thinking, reckoning with understanding how unstable democracies are (and have been ever since Athens), how easily they tumble into mob rule thence oligarchic or autocratic domination. Thus, how dependent they are on precisely the cultural buttresses that for over a century now have been undermined. Further, in all of this, the ghosts of over 100 million victims of Marxist regimes moan out a warning on just how dangerous, murderous and ruinous such regimes are. So, to see these Moms espousing it in the name of Antifa tells us worlds, saddening worlds about lessons of history not properly and consistently taught in aftermath of the collapse of the Iron Curtain countries 30 years ago. If you doubt me, notice the apparent age range from the 20's to I guess the early 50's. Not to mention, basic economics not properly taught. A basic principle: those caught up in front groups by and large do not understand the full import of what they are saying, championing and doing. And, in this context, there is no reasonable doubt that Antifa, BLM and other front groups being used in the current Red Guards insurgency are shaped through culture-form marxist ideology, critical theories, Alinski's Community Organisers and the like. The sign shown above demonstrates how this form of Marxism ties in with characteristic marxist themes about class warfare and revolution to create the marxist state. That is a discussion that is needed, and no, the attempted parallel to ID = Creationism fails. Marxists, for well over 100 years, have specialised in using front groups in subversion. However, our guard has been down for 30 years, and not enough attention has been paid to the gradual rise and domination of wide swathes of the academy by Frankfurt School and related culture form marxists and their critical theories mixed in with deconstructionism. Now, the consequences of that long march through institutions of influence are rioting in the streets. As for deconstruction as part of the tactics, ask yourself, why women (and "mom" here is a very careful word choice for agit prop purposes), why choosing a distinctive uniform, why use as human shields. The answers come back in rapid order: the civilisational norm to protect women and children is being exploited to create human shields for the otherwise indefensible. That is not only a cynical tactic forcing a cruel choice in the face of riot but it automatically undermines family principles. Yes, there is need for reforms, most importantly to restore the undermined buttresses of freedom with stability. Yes, there remain issues over racism etc, which need to be soundly addressed. Yes, an always imperfect society made up of equally imperfect human beings always needs to be alert to legitimate concerns raised by even the most angry and alienated. But no, Red Guards on the rampage in an insurgency setting the stage for what has already bloodily failed globally at horrific cost are not the answer. KF kairosfocus
Does this sound familiar? Some people don't want to seriously consider the merits of ID theory. They take a shortcut and say ID theory = creationism. Creationism isn't science and has no merit, therefore neither does ID theory. Some people don't want to take these Moms seriously. They take a shortcut and say these Moms = marxism. Marxism is bad, therefore so are these Moms. ID theorists of all people should know how unpersuasive it is to slap a label on something in lieu of meeting something on its own terms and leveling criticism. How frustrating is it when antagonists, like Wiki, define ID theory on their terms, not those of ID theorists? Then level criticism against a straw man? A network of "front organisations"? In this case, aren't you the antagonist defining their positions on your terms? Why is it wrong when someone doesn't take ID theory at face value but right for you to read a network of front organisations into a bunch of Moms marching? Would you even stop calling those Moms (or the other organizations) marxists if they said they are not marxists? If you understand how frustrating it is to be labeled creationists in spite of any objections, maybe you can stop labeling those Moms marxists. "Similarly, “moms” tries to deconstruct key family and protective values". Those quotes don't make the caricature of those marching Moms any less obvious. Moms deconstructing family values? Ridiculous. David P
"Can we read the signs of our times and act before we go completely over the cliff?" Every culture eventually collapses, all in the same general manner and for the same general reasons. You would think people should grow a brain and stop the cycle, but they don't. Explanations and examples: http://comingdarkage.blogspot.com/ SmartAZ
A Yugoslav woman tries to warn the US: https://youtu.be/ixBsVodyJP0 kairosfocus
F/N: I think for record I should clip a comment in another thread that gives context: _________________ as you know, I have objected to and corrected demeaning language, which does no good. However, you have tried to make an inappropriate, invidious association, which I will pause to correct. Agit prop is in fact a well known feature of modern ideological contest; the term is originally Russian, introduced by the bolsheviks. In particular, agit prop is a known component of 4th generation wars, including insurgencies and civil wars. Recent examples include the Arab Spring, much of the course of events in the Ukraine, and more. For cause, I have held that the US is in bleeding Kansas stage 4G civil war, with the kinetic element ramping up. To analyse that is not to insult. As to the notion that there are actual 4GW agit prop OPERATORS — field level leadership involved in operational planning and implementation in the military sense!!! — intervening on any regular basis at UD, that is laughable. Though, I don’t doubt that operators are behind a fair part of the penumbra of attack sites and are heavily involved in activist groups such as NCSE, ACLU, SPLC, X Citizens for “Science” groups and the like. Some of the more trollish regular/recurrent hecklers here and in the penumbra may have some training and be involved in front groups, but full bore operators they are not. The Marxists have a term for those caught up in front groups and their ideological schemes, I will refrain from using it. I simply note that the contempt in Lenin’s language was telling. As for real 4GW strategists and backers, those are usually several degrees removed from activism. They will have operators, part of whose job is to take the fall, should anything break. What we do regularly see and deconstruct, are the programs of talking points used to front and make the underlying ideologies and cultural/policy agendas seem plausible. Just now ET (warts and all) has just taken apart a key argument in a line or two. We notice, you have no substantial answer. To get to the point of answering in a paragraph or a tweet length comment, heavy duty exchanges had to be hammered out, as has again surfaced over the Mathematics of infinity. Likewise, we see the playing out of the same patterns over the pandemic, the irresponsible dismissal of HCQ-based cocktails and the rise of a Red Guards insurgency are being hammered out. For example in the OP here https://uncommondesc.wpengine.com/control-and-anarchy/a-riot-human-shield-the-face-of-c21-4gw-culture-form-marxist-insurgency/ , we can see several overlapping patterns showing visually the links between culture form marxism, so-called critical theories and the current Red Guard and front group insurgencies playing out in the geostrategic centre of our civilisation. We need to realise that Marxism is back and has been on a significantly successful long march through the institutions. This has significantly undermined buttresses of constitutional democratic government. There is a surge, given an unexpected setback in 2016. The intent is to bring us under a Marxist oligarchy of the ideological elites. I believe it will ultimately fail, but we are in for an even wilder onward ride over the next 6 – 18 months. The US, likely, will never fully recover from the damage that has been done and is being done. But, we can weather the storm and return to a saner framework. It is going to be needlessly painful, dangerous, likely fairly bloody and unaffordably costly. War, even 4GW, is like that, and this is a civilisational civil war with the USA as the main theatre of operations at this time. Remember 4GW is so subtle that one often does not realise that the chaos is that of essentially military operations. So, I suggest a careful reconsideration of the hellish matches that are being played with. KF kairosfocus
FE, your 1,000 to 1 had better be prepared to publicly show its views, and to do so in ways that cannot be misframed as nazism, or there may be destructive consequences. KF kairosfocus
TR, under US law, federal law enforcement has a perfect right to defend federal property with or without permission of the local authorities. They may also be deployed under other circumstances, such as IIRC happened with forced desegration. The target in question is a federal court house. That rioters . . . this is well beyond legitimate protest . . . should target courts in a reasonably functional constitutional republic of significantly democratic character is itself a sign of what is going on. Notice, too, the telling sign being put up by the human shields, a mark of marxist 4gw insurgency where optics is a telling media weapon. KF kairosfocus
I'm not from the US, but I'm amazed there isn't more outrage about the federal agents going to Portland against the wishes of the state. Isn't that part of the ethos of the US, that the federal government should not interfere in the affairs of states? Particularly with armed representatives. TimR
For every thousand people who "protested" in these riots, or came out in favour of BLM, or any of the other causes celebres, there were a million who did not, who stayed at home wishing Antifa and the BLM organization would just go away. These latter people are glad there are police at work keeping them safe, and they go about their productive daily lives, largely unaffected by the rioting and the latest woke trends and expanding demands. The mystery is why the media, governments, schools, corporations, courts, and other civil agencies pander to those shifting demands and bend over backwards with their irrational virtue signalling. Is this what they used to call mass hysteria or even mass hypnosis? Perhaps the net result of a continuous barrage of random news and chaotic info is the loss of critical thinking skills? Fasteddious
BR, yes, we have to learn to tell astroturf. KF kairosfocus
Eugene, guess what, there were big financiers and media corporations that funded and supported the bolsheviks. Including while they were starving out millions in the Ukraine. The closing scene in Animal farm is there for a reason. KF kairosfocus
A "class war" which is fully financed and supported by all multi-national corporations? Yeah, right. ...However, this is indeed a class war. It is just that this time it is being waged by the upper ruling Globalist class, with the useful idiots fighting on the streets for the ruling class benefits. Eugene
kairosfocus One of many. BobRyan
BR, antifa is a front group. KF kairosfocus
Anarchists and communists want the same thing, but have different means of achieving the shared goal. They believe a utopian society can be created, which is an impossible dream. People are not perfect and no matter how many are killed, they will remain imperfect. BobRyan
A riot human shield — the face of C21, 4GW Culture-form Marxist insurgency kairosfocus

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