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From IAI News: How infinity threatens cosmology

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Peter Cameron, Emeritus Professor Mathematics at Queen Mary, University of London, writes:

There are many approaches to infinity through the twin pillars of science and religion, but I will just restrict my attention here to the views of mathematicians and physicists.

22 09 23.infinity2.ata
IAI News

Aristotle was one of the most influential Greek philosophers. He believed that we could consider “potential infinity” (we can count objects without knowing how many more are coming) but that a “completed infinity” is taboo. For mathematicians, infinity was off-limits for two millennia after Aristotle’s ban. Galileo tried to tackle the problem, noting that an infinite set could be matched up with a part of itself, but in the end drew back. It was left to Cantor in the nineteenth century to show us the way to think about infinity, which is accepted by most mathematicians now. There are infinitely many counting numbers; any number you write down is a negligible step along the way to infinity. So Cantor’s idea was to imagine we have a package containing all these numbers; put a label on it saying “The natural numbers”, and treat the package as a single entity. If you want to study individual numbers, you can break open the package and take them out to look at them.  Now you can take any collection of these packages, and bundle them up to form another single entity. Thus, set theory is born. Cantor investigated ways of measuring these sets, and today set theory is the commonest foundation for mathematics, though other foundations have been proposed. 

One of Cantor’s discoveries is that there is no largest infinite set: given any set you can always find a larger one. The smallest infinite set is the set of natural numbers. What comes next is a puzzle which can’t be resolved at present. It may be the real (decimal) numbers, or maybe not. Our current foundations are not strong enough, and building larger telescopes will not help with this question. Perhaps in the future we will adopt new foundations for mathematics which will resolve the question.

These questions keep set theorists awake at night; but most mathematicians work near the bottom of this dizzying hierarchy, with small infinities. For example, Euclid proved that the prime numbers “go on for ever”. (Aristotle would say, “Whatever prime you find, I can find a larger one.”

While Kronecker (a fierce opponent of Cantor’s ideas) thought in the nineteenth century that “God created the natural numbers; the rest is the work of man”, we can now build the natural numbers using the tools of set theory, starting from nothing (more precisely the empty set).

Mathematicians know, however, that there is a huge gap between the finite and the infinite. If you toss a coin 100 times, it is not impossible (just very unlikely) that it will come down tails each time. But, if you could imagine tossing a coin infinitely often, then the chance of not getting heads and tails equally often is zero. Of course, you could never actually perform this experiment; but mathematics is a conceptual science, and we are happy to accept this statement on the basis of a rigorous proof.

Infinity in physics and cosmology has not been resolved so satisfactorily. The two great twentieth-century theories of physics, general relativity (the theory of the very large) and quantum mechanics (the theory of the very small) have resisted attempts to unite them. The one thing most physicists can agree on is that the universe came into being a finite time ago (about 13.7 billion years) — large, but not infinite. 

The James Webb Space Telescope has just begun showing us unprecedented details in the universe. As well as nearby objects, it sees the furthest objects ever observed. Because light travels at a finite speed, these are also the oldest objects observed, having been formed close to the beginning of the Universe. The finite speed of light also puts limits on what we can see; if an object is so far away that its light could not reach us if it travelled for the whole age of the universe, then we are unaware of its existence. So Malunkyaputta’s question about whether the universe is finite or infinite is moot. But is it eternal or not? That is a real question, and is so far undecided.

Attempts to reconcile relativity and quantum theory have been made. The ones currently most promising adopt a very radical attitude to infinity. They deny that the infinitely small can exist in the universe, but prescribe a minimum possible scale, essentially the so-called Planck scale.

Such a solution would put an end to Zeno’s paradox. Zeno denied the possibility of motion, since to move from A to B you first have to move to a point C halfway to B, and before that to a point D halfway from A to C, and so on to infinity. If space is not infinitely divisible, then this infinite regress cannot occur. (This solution was already grasped by Democritus and the early Greek atomists.)

Of course, this leaves us with a conceptual problem similar to the one raised by the possibility that the university is finite. In that case, the obvious question is “If the universe has an edge, what is beyond it?” In the case of the Planck length, the question would be “Given any length, however small, why can’t I just take half of it?”

Perhaps because we have been conditioned by Zeno’s paradox, we tend to think of the points on a line to be, like the real numbers, infinitely divisible: between any two we can find another. But current thinking is that the universe is not built this way.

More important to physics, the atomist hypothesis also gets rid of another annoying occurrence of infinity in physics. Black holes in general relativity are points of spacetime where the density of matter becomes infinite and the laws of physics break down. These have been a thorn in the flesh of cosmologists since their existence was first predicted, since by definition we cannot understand what happens there. If space is discrete, we cannot put infinitely many things infinitely close together, and the paradox is avoided. We can still have extremely high density; the black hole recently observed and photographed at the centre of our own galaxy is (on this theory) just a point of such high density that light cannot escape, but does not defy our ability to understand it.

Time, however, remains a problem; current theories cannot decide the ultimate fate of the universe. Does it end with heat death, a cold dark universe where nothing happens? Does the mysterious “dark energy” become so strong that it rips the universe to shreds? Or does the expansion from the Big Bang go into reverse, so that the universe ends in a Big Crunch?

None of this matters to us individually. The sun will expand and swallow the earth long before the universe reaches its end.

Full article at IAI News.

Although this article glosses over some concepts in physics and cosmology, it raises interesting points to ponder.

Comments
Vivid, Looking forward to your questions. Alan, Ontology is mainly about the mind/body problem, which I characterize as: What is the relationship between our conscious experience and existence? My view is that we cannot deny our subjective experience, but we have no way of knowing if anything apart from that exists, and if it does, how it relates to our conscious experience. All of the proposed answers are inadequate: Materialism is an anachronism, a strawman that nobody believes, holding that all reality is nothing but atoms in the void. Physicalism or naturalism actually means "All reality is nothing but what we currently know about reality", which is not a reasonable stance because we clearly do not understand what consciousness is. The most common forms of dualism commit a reification fallacy - mistaking our conscious perceptions for some thing that exists in the world, but has nothing to say about the relationship between our experience and reality. And "idealism" and "solipsism" both make the negative claim that nothing aside from conscious experience exists, just another claim that we have no way of evaluating. Hence, my mysterian perspective - we haven't, and almost certainly can't, understand ontology. I'd say epistemology is a hot mess (excuse the technical philosophical jargon). It is, in a way, the attempt to disprove mysterianism, and find some foundation for saying "Here is how we can justify our beliefs about what exists in the world". We can't. The reason we continue to debate ontology and epistemology is because human beings hate - just hate - the idea that we don't understand what's going on. For some reason I don't have that response - I just look at our situation, see that we can't answer these ultimate questions that we pose, and accept it.dogdoc
October 16, 2022
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KF, thanks for posting definitions. As I said, I've already read many. The particular ones you've picked are typical in explaining nothing.Alan Fox
October 16, 2022
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...get to the point where you don’t fear death, and none of this matters anymore.
I don't recall ever fearing death. The process of dying can be pretty messy and premature death is very tough on family and friends but returning to dust (I like Pullman's stardust) and oblivion? Nothing to fear there.Alan Fox
October 16, 2022
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Alan Fox: Maybe Dogdoc (or anyone else) can help me out with a confession. I’ve never grasped the usefulness of the concepts, epistemology and ontology. Honestly, I don’t know what these words mean. I’ve read plenty of definitions but they don’t explain the point of the concepts. Is there more to it than “what can you know” and “how can you know”? You can't. Lemme buy you a beer, my friend. The best name I can come up for this universe, with consciousness as an observer is: Mind F*ck. Sorry if that offends the sensibilities of the delicates among up. But it's true, nonetheless. Sidebar: get to the point where you don't fear death, and none of this matters anymore. Talk about liberation!Paxx
October 16, 2022
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FYI: ONTOLOGY: the logic of being, or expanded, [study of] logic of [the nature of] being, an aspect of metaphysics, philosophical study of grand reality. Farlex Trivia Dictionary has a useful summary: "Ontology is the branch of metaphysics concerned with the nature or essence of being or existence, the opposite of phenomenology, the science of phenomena." (Contrast what is vs what appears to be.) Thus of course the approach of using possible worlds and partitioning: impossible vs possible of being, and of the latter, contingent vs necessary being. The latter are part of the fabric for any world to exist. Ponder a suggested world where distinction, thus two-ness does not exist or begins or ceases; already once we have a distinct suggested world say s, there is, necessarily distinction s vs NOT-s. This can be shown to lie at the root of mathematics, considered as [the study of] the logic of structure and quantity. EPISTEMOLOGY: philosophical study of knowledge and closely related issues such as warrant/justification of beliefs. Revolutionised sixty years ago by Gettier counter examples to knowledge is justified, true belief and the dust has not settled. This is why I have put up reasons for taking weak, scientific and common good sense form knowledge as warranted, credibly true (so, reliable) belief. one of the subtleties involved, is that beliefs true by luck or accident are unreliable which directly connects to how many Gettier cases and grue/bleen etc work. As the label says, right there on the tin, FYI. Obviously, fundamental and as phil is about, hard, fundamental questions. If they were easy, they would not be in this dept. KFkairosfocus
October 16, 2022
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DD, you know full well that, reasons are not causes is a sub point on the matter of responsible, rational freedom. Particularly, that materialist/physicalist reductionism fails and takes down with it ever so many associated thought frames. You also know as it was pointed out that the gambit that any point A has an infinite regress of antecedents fails the test of first observations, axioms, first plausibles, presuppositions and of course the use of comparative difficulties to avert vicious hall of mirrors circularity. All of these gambits were used to distract from the core point that freedom is actually a self evident first truth, on grounds that, instantly, without it, reasoned discussion loses the reasoned part and collapses into in effect meaningless noise. Where, on that self evident first truth plumb line basis, we have every epistemic and logical right to reject every ideological notion and worldview seen to be inconsistent with responsible, rational, significant -- as opposed to arbitrary -- freedom. Evolutionary materialistic scientism and fellow travellers, we are looking straight at you. KF PS, Rosenberg is inadvertently letting the cat out of the bag:
Alex Rosenberg as he begins Ch 9 of his The Atheist’s Guide to Reality: >> FOR SOLID EVOLUTIONARY REASONS, WE’VE BEEN tricked into looking at life from the inside. [--> So, just how did self-aware, intentional consciousness arise on such materialism? Something from nothing through poof magic words like "emergence" won't do.] Without scientism, we look at life from the inside, from the first-person POV (OMG, you don’t know what a POV is?—a “point of view”). The first person is the subject, the audience, the viewer of subjective experience, the self in the mind. Scientism shows that the first-person POV is an illusion. [–> grand delusion is let loose in utter self referential incoherence] Even after scientism convinces us, we’ll continue to stick with the first person. But at least we’ll know that it’s another illusion of introspection and we’ll stop taking it seriously. We’ll give up all the answers to the persistent questions about free will, the self, the soul, and the meaning of life that the illusion generates [–> bye bye to responsible, rational freedom on these presuppositions]. The physical facts fix all the facts. [--> asserts materialism, leading to . . . ] The mind is the brain. It has to be physical and it can’t be anything else, since thinking, feeling, and perceiving are physical process—in particular, input/output processes—going on in the brain. We [–> at this point, what "we," apart from "we delusions"?] can be sure of a great deal about how the brain works because the physical facts fix all the facts about the brain. The fact that the mind is the brain guarantees that there is no free will. It rules out any purposes or designs organizing our actions or our lives [–> thus rational thought and responsible freedom]. It excludes the very possibility of enduring persons, selves, or souls that exist after death or for that matter while we live.>>
kairosfocus
October 16, 2022
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Ontology is when a chef make a cake. Epistemiology is when you eat it.whistler
October 16, 2022
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DD 753 I do have some comments , mostly complimentary, and a few questions regarding “ultimate responsibility” and where did these previous reasons and beliefs came from since they were not mine. Since I’m tired I will try getting around to this tomorrow Vividvividbleau
October 16, 2022
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Maybe Dogdoc (or anyone else) can help me out with a confession. I've never grasped the usefulness of the concepts, epistemology and ontology. Honestly, I don't know what these words mean. I've read plenty of definitions but they don't explain the point of the concepts. Is there more to it than "what can you know" and "how can you know"?Alan Fox
October 16, 2022
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Origenes, KF, or anyone else care to add anything to the free will discussion? Last round I showed how the fact that reasons were not causes can't salvage ultimate responsibility. Anyone want to say why they still think I'm wrong, or that now they think I might be right, or maybe that at least they would think about it?dogdoc
October 15, 2022
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Speaking of chaos theory, Here's the book I just ordered: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-primacy-of-doubt-9780192843593? lang=en&cc=gb# Wildly good reviews from Hossenfelder, Penrose, etc - this physicist/polymath apparently attempts to show, among many other things, how chaos theory shows that quantum uncertainty is epistemological rather than ontological.dogdoc
October 15, 2022
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True, although perhaps ionic atoms are not really considered "elemental". I doubt Weinberg really doesn't know about ionic bonds, and ions in general. Defining the elements by the number of protons is standard, so this error is hard to explain.Viola Lee
October 15, 2022
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Incidentally, I do have a quibble with Dr. Weinberg's "chalk talk" on the following statement in his book:
One element is distinguished from another solely by the number of electrons in the atom: one for hydrogen, six for carbon, eight for oxygen twenty for calcium, and so on.
That's not correct. It's the number of protons that determine the element. For example, sodium chloride (table salt), NaCl, forms an ionic bond: the sodium atom loses an electron to become a sodium ion while the chlorine atom gains an electron to become a chloride ion. Sodium doesn't become neon and chlorine doesn't become argon in the process. But let's see what else he has to say . . . -QQuerius
October 15, 2022
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Viola Lee @744,
Yes, in a recursive system that can show chaotic behavior, there is no way we could perfectly model the system because whatever level of accuracy our calculations could perform, eventually noticeable discrepancies from perfection would happen. And since we can’t calculate with infinite precision, we can’t perfectly model chaotic systems. Do you agree with that?
Yes. And I’m not sure that the system necessarily needs to be qualified as recursive, except in mathematics (I'm thinking of a recursive approximation technique to arrive at roots of functions).
A small point: small initial changes from calculation inaccuracies or anything else don’t always “quickly yield dramatically different outcomes.” Sometimes it takes a while for the dramatic difference to become noticeable, I think.
Chaotic results appear surprisingly faster than expected. It might have also been Edward Lorentz who calculated that if the entire surface of the earth were covered with weather stations one meter apart and then one meter up from the surface in concentric spheres to the practical limits of our atmosphere, accurate weather prediction could be extended from about 3-5 days to maybe up to a month, which turned out to be too optimistic. Since then, more research has refined weather predictability. Here's a 2018 research paper on the subject concluding that the limit to weather predictability is 2-3 weeks: Insights into Atmospheric Predictability through Global Convection-Permitting Model Simulations https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/atsc/75/5/jas-d-17-0343.1.xml?tab_body=fulltext-display -QQuerius
October 15, 2022
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Origenes,
No, I am asking you: how do we evaluate our beliefs, assuming that your theory on reasons and beliefs is true. Given your theory, our reasons and beliefs are based on things outside of our control, and I take it that also the evaluation itself of these things would also be based on things outside of our control. I am asking you what that would look like.
As my example about my 19' height illustrated, we reason about new beliefs based on our existing beliefs.
Perhaps I can make my question more concrete: Suppose that belief X is ultimately based on a thing outside of our control, let’s say chemical process A in the frontal lobe.
I make no assumptions about how minds work. Maybe dualism is true and our minds transcend physical mechanism - it makes no difference to the argument I'm making.
Given that, my question would be: do we have the ability to truly evaluate belief X, which would include an evaluation of chemical process A?
I don't understand this. We do not "evaluate" how our mind works, we evaluate new beliefs. We don't know how minds work - maybe it's all chemistry and physics, maybe it's processes involving quantum gravity (like Penrose thinks) that we don't understand yet, etc etc. No matter how we think, we know that we do think, and that includes evaluating new beliefs. And that evaluation depends upon our existing beiefs.
And if we cannot do so, or if it is pointless to do so …
I have no idea why you say this. The point of you evaluating whether I'm 19 feet tall is to find out if I'm lying, or if I can fit in your Uber car, or whatever. The truth of my argument doesn't change the point of our thinking, it shows that we are not ultimately responsible for our choices.
DD: I don’t understand this. Obviously we do – we consciously (and, often, unconsciously) deliberate over things and decide whether or not we believe them. O: Indeed. But the question is, are we (also) able to deliberate over our reasons and beliefs in any meaningful way if your theory on reasons and beliefs were true.
Yes of course we deliberate over our reasons and beliefs - we can evaluate our current beliefs to see if we still believe them (in a process that might be similar to Bayesian reasoning?).
According to Dogdoc, a free choice requires that the underlying reasons are freely chosen. So, if one makes choice X based on reasons A=A and/or 2+2=4, Dogdoc will say: “Choice X is not a free choice, because the reasons A=A and 2+2=4 were forced upon the chooser. So, one is not able to freely choose the underlying reasons for one’s choice; there were no alternatives.”
Yes.
However, as KF has pointed out, a reason is not a compulsion. For instance, the choice to vote for Joe Biden is partly based on A=A, [Joe Biden = Joe Biden and Joe Biden is not Donald Trump], but surely A=A, the law of identity, does not compel anyone to vote for Joe Biden. The fact that a reason is not a compulsion undercuts DD’s theory.
No. Once again: Let's say you decide to vote for Biden for some set of reasons (law of identity, Joe is a nice guy, Joe forgave my student debt, etc). But then, since reasons are not causes, or compulsions, you decide to change your mind and choose to vote for Trump. Now the question becomes, upon what did you base your decision to vote for Trump instead? Either that choice was made for some reason(s), or it was made for no reason at all (which would make it a random, arbitrary choice that I've said does not represent the sort of free will worth wanting). And if it was made for a reason, then that reason was ultimately unchosen.dogdoc
October 15, 2022
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DD @, KF @ According to Dogdoc, a free choice requires that the underlying reasons are freely chosen. So, if one makes choice X based on reasons A=A and/or 2+2=4, Dogdoc will say: “Choice X is not a free choice, because the reasons A=A and 2+2=4 were forced upon the chooser. So, one is not able to freely choose the underlying reasons for one's choice; there were no alternatives.” However, as KF has pointed out, a reason is not a compulsion. For instance, the choice to vote for Joe Biden is partly based on A=A, [Joe Biden = Joe Biden and Joe Biden is not Donald Trump], but surely A=A, the law of identity, does not compel anyone to vote for Joe Biden. The fact that a reason is not a compulsion undercuts DD's theory.Origenes
October 15, 2022
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Dogdoc @727, "Reliable," w hen it comes to beliefs, can refer to any number of things, some of which are not related to whether or not the belief reflects some kind of true statement. Useful and reliable are not the same as "true."William J Murray
October 15, 2022
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DD @
We evaluate if some belief is true by reasoning over our other beliefs (…) by reasoning over existing beliefs (necessarily) based on things outside of our control.
What would that look like? How do we evaluate the things outside of our control?
You are asking me how do we evaluate our beliefs? That would be a question for cognitive scientists …
No, I am asking you: how do we evaluate our beliefs, assuming that your theory on reasons and beliefs is true. Given your theory, our reasons and beliefs are based on things outside of our control, and I take it that also the evaluation itself of these things would also be based on things outside of our control. I am asking you what that would look like. Perhaps I can make my question more concrete: Suppose that belief X is ultimately based on a thing outside of our control, let’s say chemical process A in the frontal lobe. Given that, my question would be: do we have the ability to truly evaluate belief X, which would include an evaluation of chemical process A? And if we cannot do so, or if it is pointless to do so ...
I don’t understand this. Obviously we do – we consciously (and, often, unconsciously) deliberate over things and decide whether or not we believe them.
Indeed. But the question is, are we (also) able to deliberate over our reasons and beliefs in any meaningful way if your theory on reasons and beliefs were true.Origenes
October 15, 2022
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Yes, in a recursive system that can show chaotic behavior, there is no way we could perfectly model the system because whatever level of accuracy our calculations could perform, eventually noticeable discrepancies from perfection would happen. And since we can't calculate with infinite precision, we can't perfectly model chaotic systems. Do you agree with that? A small point: small initial changes from calculation inaccuracies or anything else don't always "quickly yield dramatically different outcomes." Sometimes it takes a while for the dramatic difference to become noticeable, I think.Viola Lee
October 14, 2022
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Viola Lee @742, Yes, I'm very familiar with chaos theory and the Mandelbrot set. But here's the problem. Let's say you start the bottom of a double pendulum at 14.25 cm from the vertical. That location might actually be rounded off from 14.245877902. . . cm. The next time you try starting the same double pendulum at 14.25 cm from the vertical might actually be 14.250831676. . . . cm. You're right about the weather simulation by Edward Lorentz and the butterfly effect. The "butterfly" in this case was his entering rounded off weather station data to restart the simulation. I'd guess he'd entered three decimal places after the decimal point and that his software supported double-precision floating point numbers to realistically yield 12-14 decimal places of precision. This yielded the different results that surprised him. My point is that in real life, anything less than an infinite number of decimal places would quickly yield dramatically different outcomes. Any clearer? -QQuerius
October 14, 2022
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Q, you write, "Not as many as you would like to consider, but an infinite number of decimal places (any less will make a huge difference due to round-off)." Not sure what you mean here. It isn't possible to have an infinite number of decimal places in a calculation, but in theory you can calculate with as many decimal places as you wish. If the pick a point on the boundary of the Mandelbrot set (a + bi) and then consider an "adjacent" point (a + 0.0000000 .... 00001 + bi), with as many zeros as you wish in the ellipsis, and then "drill" down around each point in a systematic fashion, and if you have no practical limitations on your accuracy, you will get different "histories" from each point. However, because there are practical limitations to our calculations, even exploring the history starting at one point wiill run into inaccuracies at some point. Wikipedia says this about problems Lorenz ran into when first starting to use computers to model weather:
Edward Lorenz was an early pioneer of the theory. His interest in chaos came about accidentally through his work on weather prediction in 1961.[13] Lorenz was using a simple digital computer, a Royal McBee LGP-30, to run his weather simulation. He wanted to see a sequence of data again, and to save time he started the simulation in the middle of its course. He did this by entering a printout of the data that corresponded to conditions in the middle of the original simulation. To his surprise, the weather the machine began to predict was completely different from the previous calculation. Lorenz tracked this down to the computer printout. The computer worked with 6-digit precision, but the printout rounded variables off to a 3-digit number, so a value like 0.506127 printed as 0.506. This difference is tiny, and the consensus at the time would have been that it should have no practical effect. However, Lorenz discovered that small changes in initial conditions produced large changes in long-term outcome.[72] Lorenz's discovery, which gave its name to Lorenz attractors, showed that even detailed atmospheric modeling cannot, in general, make precise long-term weather predictions.
Viola Lee
October 14, 2022
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Viola Lee @739, [Edit: Ironically, you beat me by a minute.] Not as many as you would like to consider, but an infinite number of decimal places (any less will make a huge difference due to round-off). This dynamic should qualify as one of Dr. Weinberg's problematic infinities. Lola Rennt/Run Lola Run is a German film that shows several radically different outcomes to the events in a story when there's simply a tiny difference in time at the beginning. It's essentially a theatrical application of chaos theory. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0130827/ -QQuerius
October 14, 2022
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Q: I read about that film on Wikipedia. Fairly unique, and relevant to our discussion.Viola Lee
October 14, 2022
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Q: as many as you would like to consider. And no, I don't watch many movies and have no knowledge of that one.Viola Lee
October 14, 2022
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Viola Lee @737,
In the Mandelbrot set (and this is the chaos idea), at some moments a minute (mathematically, an infinitesimal one) variation in now sets the future off into what may become (but not necessarily immediately) a very different course than it would have without that variation.
Yes. And mathematically, how many decimal places are we talking about? Have you ever seen the movie, Lola Rennt /Run Lola Run? -QQuerius
October 14, 2022
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It may not bring mind and matter into existence, but it keeps them in existence. It also is what brings, in my opinion, non-determined variability into the world. I used to use the Mandelbrot set as an analogy to give my seniors a pep talk about life as they came close to graduation. In the Mandelbrot set (and this is the chaos idea), at some moments a minute (mathematically, an infinitesimal one) variation in now sets the future off into what may become (but not necessarily immediately) a very different course than it would have without that variation. Thus, goes the pep talk, treat every moment and every decision as important, as you never can tell when you might be at one of the nodes where even a small thing makes a big difference.Viola Lee
October 14, 2022
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Even after all this time, my intuitions - or inklings - about how recursion brings mind and matter into existence remain powerful but inarticulable, like WJM's ideas about will. But I'm comfortable enjoying the mysteries. You've motivated me to take another look, though, and see if can put some more structure around my thoughts on the matter.dogdoc
October 14, 2022
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Cool. It's neat that you know lots about all that stuff. You write, "That is it in a nutshell! ?" You mean the one you forgot when you came down? :-)Viola Lee
October 14, 2022
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Recursion is the key to the universe, as every moment feeds itself back into the causal mechanisms of the world (including the aspects of probability, contingency, etc.) to produce the next moment, and from a mystical viewpoint (and I remember clearly the first time I had this insight), the universe as a whole is the state which feeds into the next state.
That is it in a nutshell! :-) Read Gleick's book when it came out, spent countless hours writing programs to explore the chaos and recursion in fractals. (For you old programmers out there, all in TurboC on DOS :-))dogdoc
October 14, 2022
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Recursion is the key to the universe, as every moment feeds itself back into the causal mechanisms of the world (including the aspects of probability, contingency, etc.) to produce the next moment, and from a mystical viewpoint (and I remember clearly the first time I had this insight), the universe as a whole is the state which feeds into the next state. This is the key concept behind chaos theory. Gleick's book "Chaos" explains how these ideas started with trying to model weather as a recursive system. And the Mandelbrot set and associated fractals follow, which is some of my favorite math. And last, (and these are about the only youtube videos I've ever sought out to watch), a wonderful mathematician named Holly Krieger has multiple videos about various examples of recursion, as it is her research specialty: dynamic systems and recursion. Here's an example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGMRB4O922IViola Lee
October 14, 2022
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