Not why they should.
From James Barham’s “When our best science is not good enough” ( The Best Schools, November 6, 2011),
First, the new trend in science toward enlisting the political and judicial system to help one side to prevail in a scientific dispute is highly injurious to the health of science itself, to say nothing of the polity, and it must be stopped. If a scientific consensus is so insecure that it has to have its claims imposed on the public by court order—as happened in the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover decision in Pennsylvania with respect to the neo-Darwinian theory of evolution—it can scarcely expect to command the respect of that public, and it forfeits whatever intellectual authority it might otherwise be entitled to. Similar efforts are now afoot to impose an artificial consensus on the subject of climate change. They are equally to be deplored.
The first requirement for ascertaining the reliability of a consensus scientific claim, then, is a climate of frank and open debate, free from political intimidation.
Both the Darwin lobby and Christian Darwinists whine that Americans “don’t believe in” evolution – and it never occurs either to them or the plush-toy media figures with whom they have a cozy relationship to ask what contribution their politicizing the issues makes.
It’s this simple: In (real) science, medicine, and engineering, your results must follow certain quality standards. Even Einstein can be wrong, even if one result is that “There is no solution that works.”
In politics, you can get any results that the electorate will vote for or judges will rule. A judge could rule that Einstein is right and the faster-than-light neutrinos are wrong. Or that you can’t teach about them in school. Or whatever. That then becomes the official “truth.”
But people understand the difference between the truth standards of knowledge and the truth standards of power. Physicists have demonstrated the former by resting content with the current uncertainty until better data shall arrive; Darwinists have demonstrated the latter in abundance by relying on courts to enforce their dogmas.
Each gets the public confidence it deserves.
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Of note:
In this following podcast, Casey Luskin interviews microbiologist and immunologist Donald Ewert about his previous work as associate editor for the journal Development and Comparitive Immunology, where he realized that the papers published were comparative studies that had nothing to do with evolution at all.
The deception, from neo-Darwinists at Dover, did not stop with immunology;
Materialists like to claim evolution is indispensable to experimental biology and led the way to many breakthroughs in medicine, Yet in a article entitled “Evolutionary theory contributes little to experimental biology”, this expert author begs to differ.
Thus basically we have a ‘scientific’ theory that used deception in a court of law to get its way, and is shown to be useless as a catalyst for scientific discovery, and yet the neo-Darwinists wonder why people doubt their credibility?!?
correction: Philip S. Skell – (the late) Professor at Pennsylvania State University.
“Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E=mc2. Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way.”
Michael Crichton
LOL! Coming up on six years and the ID crowd is still whining about their humiliating defeat at Dover.
I suppose it gives them something to fill all that time they’re not using for ID research.
What defeat? The judge was obviously biased- he watched “Inherit the Wind” for a historical reference.
When someone buys the lies of the atheistic opposition on an agenda over the word of the experts, that should tell you something.
BTW who is doing any blind watchmaker research and when will they be publishing their results?
Joseph
ID’s defeat for trying to relabel Biblical Creationism as Intelligent Design in the book Of Panda And People and sneak it into Dover public schools. You can read all about it here.
The “cdesign proponentsists” had every chance to make their scientific case in front of a national audience and the blew it. They screwed the pooch. They dropped the ball. They ate it big time. They failed.
Six years later and you’re still crying in your beer over it.
The nice thing about having the evidence on your side is knowing that THAT EVIDENCE isn’t going away.
If anyone would like to call bullshit on that, they can begin by telling us how an immaterial rule becomes established in a material object by means of the physical properties of the material object itself.
I know what happened. As I said the judge was totally clueless.
And only the willfully ignorant think that Intelligent Design is a relabeling of Biblical Creationsim.
The scientific case for ID was made and still stands, unrefuted as your position STILL doesn’t have anything to support it. Miller lied, on the satnd, and that is usually perjury- he got away with it because the judge is ignrant of biology and science.
And why should I cry over that decision? It is only relates to a small insignificant district in PA and doesn’t carry any weight outside of it.
Science can be neither legislated nor adjudicated.
Intelligent Design was not defeated in 2005. The Dover school board’s decision was defeated and it was obvious the school board was A) religiously motivated and B) ignorant of Intelligent Design.
Joseph
But underhanded attempts to relabel Creationism and sneak it into public schools certainly can.
Actually science doesn’t give a dang about Creation. Science just cares about reality.
And only the willfully ignorant think that Intelligent Design is a relabeling of Biblical Creationsim.
And here you are…
Six years later the ID crowd is delighted because Dover, despite the judge’s bias, illustrated the point that science is not determined in a court room. Even some materialists were shocked at the judge’s opinion.
2nd of all, it wasn’t the ID crowd who erred in Dover, it was a small group of evangelical Christians with an agenda. The Discovery Instituted did not support them. Members of the DI were there as expert witnesses to present ID, since the defendants were using ID in their agenda.
Furthermore, Dover’s results (with the help of “Expelled”) pressed forward the very worthy issue of academic freedom. So we’re not wining. We’re only attempting to put Dover in the right perspective for materialists who still think that scientific issues can be dealt with in the courtroom. It didn’t work, and I’m not surprised at the anger many materialist atheists feel towards the issue of academic freedom. Apparently many of them do not believe in it, but would rather indoctrinate.
There was indeed evidence of that fact, referring to the School Board’s actions, and they were judged accordingly. But the second part the Court’s decision was resolutely unfounded, in error, and a violation of jurisprudence. No court has the authority, let alone the scientific expertise, to adjudicate what constitutes valid science.
Shall we submit the various ‘multi verse’ theories for a judicial appraisal next?
Joseph
leebowman
Joseph, why are you calling leebowman willfully ignorant?
GinoB,
I am calling YOU willfully ignorant and the Dover school board ignorant:
Intelligent Design was not defeated in 2005. The Dover school board’s decision was defeated and it was obvious the school board was A) religiously motivated and B) ignorant of Intelligent Design.
But thanks for continuing to prove that you are a troll- as if we needed more proof.
Or to rephrase it Gino, “Interesting that Lee Bowman has admitted to his own ignorance.”
Anybody can rename anything for their own convenience or agenda, be it a school board, or an author/ publisher. His reference was to Judge Jones, and of course you.
Anything germane to add?… ;~)
leebowman
Of course the court has not only the authority but the responsibility to rule on issues that are pertinent to the case being tried. The judge in this case did so based on the evidence that was presented at trial. If you want to point fingers, you should start with the ID legal team that presented such a weak and fatally flawed case.
If you catch someone C&Ping the words ‘multi-verse” into an existing science book, then trying to sneak the changed book’s message into public science classrooms as fact, absolutely.
Joseph
Six years Joseph. Trial’s over. You lost. Get over it already.
Wrong again. First, the issue at hand was a violation of the Establishment Clause. And that was done with with reference to Lemon v. Kurtzman:
• A lack of secular purpose
• Having a primary effect of advancing religion
Prong three wasn’t supported IMO. The above prongs were supported in this case, at least by inference, and thus ruled accordingly. It could be argued that yes, the Board had religious leanings, and yes, they lied about the funding of the books, etc.
But if ID was view properly, as an investigative hypothesis, then it could be argued that there was in fact a secular purpose as well. But nonetheless, there was sufficient religious motive established to rule against the Board. Part two of the ruling was essentially based on:
• Behe’s testimony, which by the way was correct in its support of design inferences [ID as an investigative hypothesis with evidence to support it].
• A convincing, but skewed [and false in much of its substance] testimony by Kenneth Miller. Miller by the way, had a vested interest in the outcome of the second part of the decision, based on his business interests.
• Theatrics [pile of books to peer around] , misstatements regarding them [no validating citations in support of Miller’s claims], and witness leading [the astrology snafu] by the Plaintiff.
• And finally, based on Judge Jones getting his quickly encapsulated course in Biology 101.
I’m not blaming Jones; he did what he was told, and fared well afterwards.
Correction. It was not a legal team for ID, and yes, Thomas Moore failed at key points to raise objections, in particular regarding the Comedy Central theatrics, witness leading, and over unsupported statements that an evolutionary system path had been proven in the literature presented. A few quotes out of context, but no empirical proof of that, even with the current data.
Except I didn’t lose anything. Only a moron would think ID was affeted in any way, shape or form by an ignorant judge’s ruling that doesn’t apply anywhere except for a small district in PA.
And all that is needed is for some teacher to violate Judge Jones- like Scopes did- and then another Court will get to hear it all over again. Except this time we know the anti-ID tactics so I look forward to any and all rematches.
leebowman
If the ID side thinks they have a case for errors in the legal proceeding that should invalidate the ruling they always have the option to appeal.
Been six years now and nothing’s been done yet. Seems like the legal experts don’t share your opinion.
GinoB:
That is not how it works. Only the school board or the school can appeal.
Yup it has been six years and irreducible complexity still remains unrefuted and your sorry position still can’t produce any positive evidence for support.
All good so far…
I’ve been told that since the School Board was let go, and that the time limit had lapsed, the an appeal was un obtainable. Granted, for the trial itself.
But in this case, an ‘appeal’ would consist of a judicial review of the ID declarations by a higher court, likely the Supreme Court, and it would be based on whether the ID declarations fell within the established [or perhaps ‘newly’ established] bounds of jurisprudence.
If let stand, it would broaden courts’ powers, and might please drug companies and genetic marketers. I would hope that that not be the case. But since this is a research issue rather than a marketing issue, perhaps not.
It IS however, highly political. Sad that scientific research should be so constrained.
Oh, but when a school board run by fundamentalists imposes a view like ID, that’s just fine!
Uh… no.
Who implied that?
Well a school board run by atheists gets away with imposing a view like the untestable current theory of evolution and that is just fine!
What school board? What atheists?
Any school board that allows the unabashed teaching of the currently untestable theory of evolution.
They are either atheists or liars for atheism:
…
…
click here for a hint:
Thank you for your honesty Will Provine.
1- Academe January 1987 pp.51-52 †
2-Evolutionary Progress (1988) p. 65 †
3- “Evolution: Free will and punishment and meaning in life” 1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address 1 2 †
4- No Free Will (1999) p.123
5- Provine, W.B., Origins Research 16(1), p.9, 1994.