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Is Darwinism an “Empty Theory”?

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At Evolution and News, there’s a link to a 2017 article tackling the problems of inflationary theory in the field of cosmology. What I find so interesting is the second to last paragraph in this six page article. Here’s how it reads:

A common misconception is that experiments can be used to falsify a theory. In practice, a failing theory gets increasingly immunized against experiment by attempts to patch it. The theory becomes more highly tuned and arcane to fit new observations until it reaches a state where its explanatory power diminishes to the point that it is no longer pursued. The explanatory power of a theory is measured by the set of possibilities it excludes. More immunization means less exclusion and less power. A theory like the multimess does not exclude anything and, hence, has zero power. Declaring an empty theory as the unquestioned standard view requires some sort of assurance outside of science. Short of a professed oracle, the only alternative is to invoke authorities. History teaches us that this is the wrong road to take.

Is he talking about Darwinism? No, about the “multimess” as he calls it. In the meantime, here we have a high-powered scientist telling us that a theory that lacks “explanatory power” is a theory that “excludes” very little. We have said here for years that Darwinism can accomodate ANYTHING; and, hence, it “explains” NOTHING. It is, to quote the author, an “empty theory” that “invoke[s] authorities” to keep it as the “unquestioned standard view.” Most compelling is his final thought: “History teaches us that this is the wrong road to take.”

How many more “epicycles” have to be trotted out by the scientific monopoly that is evolutionary biology before we get off this ‘wrong road’? We already have had too many.

Comments
Dogdoc:
KF and ET both argued that ID excludes the observation of complex form and function (FSCO/I or whatever) coming about by blind chance and/or mechanical means. This fails for two reasons.
You fail for many reasons. The explanatory filter will never let us reach a design inference once it is demonstrated that blind and mindless processes can produce it.
And second, when confronted with purely mechanistic systems that produce FSCO/I without intelligent intervention (for example, the action of the immune system, or the machinery that folds proteins),
What a question-begging dolt! There isn't any evidence that the immune system or protein folding arose via blind and mindless processes. And ID is not anti-evolution. Your ignorance, while amusing, is still not an argument. It isn't our fault that you and yours can't demonstrate that blind and mindless processes produced life. It isn't our fault that you and yours can't demonstrate blind and mindless processes can produce coded information processing systems. All you have is your denial and your ignorance. 1) High information content (or specified complexity) and irreducible complexity constitute strong indicators or hallmarks of (past) intelligent design. 2) Biological systems have a high information content (or specified complexity) and utilize subsystems that manifest irreducible complexity. 3) Naturalistic mechanisms or undirected causes do not suffice to explain the origin of information (specified complexity) or irreducible complexity. 4) Therefore, intelligent design constitutes the best explanations for the origin of information and irreducible complexity in biological systems. As anyone can see. by demonstrating that naturalistic mechanisms are capable, ID is falsified. My bet is Dogdoc is too stupid to understand that.ET
January 19, 2022
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Earth to Dogdoc- your willful ignorance is not an argument. IDists have said exactly what would falsify ID.ET
January 19, 2022
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getting back to the OP here, it appears that nobody is able to identify a single observation that would disconfirm ID. In other words, ID excludes nothing.
You fail to understand what ID is. It’s not a theory. It’s the use of logic. Applied to observations. So any observation is possible. It’s the conclusions to the reason for why the observation occurred. For some observations the reason for it to occur at a specific place and time is due partially to an intelligence interference in the laws of nature. For most observations that conclusion is not justified. I repeat ID is not a theory jerry
January 19, 2022
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F/N: Having pointed out the fundamental deceit, I note correctively for record as there is otherwise likely to be further rhetoric on failing to answer etc: >>KF and ET both argued that ID excludes the observation of complex form and function (FSCO/I or whatever) coming about by blind chance and/or mechanical means.>> - strawman caricature that refuses to accurately state what is on the table - functionally specific complex organisation is based on particular arrangement of components or features to achieve function, as in text or the parts of a reel or in the biological context D/RNA, proteins and higher level structures such as the eye, which is information rich, and a threshold of complexity is applied based on blind search capacity of the sol system or cosmos, 500 - 1,000 bits. - What is asserted by the design inference is that [a] as empirical observation of actual formation of FSCO/I bearing entities, uniformly on trillions of observations such is by intelligently directed configuration, [b] that per analysis of search challenge, such configurations will . . . for reasons similar to the statistical form of the second law of thermodynamics . . . be beyond the search capability of the sol system or observed cosmos. - So, we are dealing with a reliable inductive inference and the associated point raised by Newton that in dealing with what we do not directly observe, we should only use explanations based on causes shown to have the like effect. - Newton's common sense rule has been spectacularly violated by a priori ideological imposition of evolutionary materialistic scientism >>This fails for two reasons. First, just as I pointed out to Barry, saying that ID excludes evolutionary explanations doesn’t exclude observations,>> - strawman, the inference is empirically falsifiable were there cases of blind chance and mechanical necessity seen to cause FSCO/I, but there are not. We have a reliable empirical generalisation. -- ducking that inconvenient fact and the stated falsifiability to brazenly assert the opposite is deceitful. >> it simply describes two opposing theories for how FSCO/I comes about in biology.>> - strawman, doubled down; deceit doubled down. - it is obvious DD cannot acknowledge the falsifiability, the trillion member observational base and the reliability of the design inference so he sets up and knocks over a strawman. >> And second, when confronted with purely mechanistic systems that produce FSCO/I without intelligent intervention (for example, the action of the immune system, or the machinery that folds proteins),>> - strawman, this is similar to saying that we see computers producing FSCO/I so this is a case of blind mechanism producing FSCO/I without intelligently directed configuration. - the point is, per Newton, that we have a known cause of FSCO/I, intelligently directed configuration, per trillion member observational base, so we here have a viable causal explanation for cases we did not see the origin of. - Where, manifestly, we did not see the origin of cells, immune systems etc, so that is what is to be explained given FSCO/I, on CAUSES ACTUALLY OBSERVED TO PRODUCE FSCO/I. - There are precisely zero cases of blind chance and/or mechanical necessity -- blind means no intelligently directed configuration involved in the causal origin -- being observed to cause such FSCO/I. That a strawman is set up in its place tells us DD knows better but wishes to propagate an ideology. >>ID can always just resort to saying that while those purely mechanical systems do produce FSCO/I, it’s only because that machinery was itself designed by an intelligent source.>> - strawman, triple down. - here, the issue of origin of the system seen to work as high tech molecular nanotech automation is willfully suppressed. >>So here again, there is absolutely no possible observation that is excluded by ID>> - This is not just a strawman but a bad faith argument, willful falsehood, deceit, at this point for specific and adequate correction has been given only to meet doubling down on misrepresentations to create a false impression of blind chance and/or mechanical necessity being OBSERVED to cause FSCO/I without intelligently directed configuration. - Where, note, the further shift from causal process to agent; ID does not infer from FSCO/I to agent directly, there are far too many further issues before one may infer agent as in active self-moved person as plausible source of intelligent direction - there actually have been theories of intelligence being cosmically embedded and the like - Again, strawman tactics coming from objectors. - Here, clearly constructed to distract from falsifiability of the design inference, its actual tested reliability and clear absence of observed cause of FSCO/I by blind chance and/or blind mechanical necessity KF KFkairosfocus
January 19, 2022
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DD,
it appears that nobody is able to identify a single observation that would disconfirm ID. In other words, ID excludes nothing.
you double down on falsehood despite specific correction, addressed to you -- that is barefaced. Such, is blatant deceit and confirms your bad faith and so negative credibility. You know or should acknowledge that the design inference on functionally specific complex organisation and/or associated information would be falsified by actual observation of such FSCO/I beyond 500 - 1,000 bits being formed by blind chance and/or mechanical necessity. In fact, across trillions of directly observed cases, uniformly such comes about by intelligently directed configuration. Where, this is seen in the random text generation case, a factor of 10^100 short of the threshold. Where, too, this is directly relevant to the machine code and algorithms in D/RNA, which are far beyond the threshold. KF PS: I again note that the design inference is to causal process/factors and is not an inference to particular designer.kairosfocus
January 19, 2022
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@56 Look, it's simple. The only alternative to ID is randomness. If one could show randomness capable of creating the patterns we get from ID, that would falsify ID. But, so far, randomness can't. So not only is ID not empty, but it also is validated. So far. As far as "mechanistic processes", if those were valid primary explanations of anything, we wouldn't try to further explain them down to the laws of nature. But we do. That means "mechanistic processes" are not valid alternatives to ID and randomness.Nonlin.org
January 19, 2022
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Well, getting back to the OP here, it appears that nobody is able to identify a single observation that would disconfirm ID. In other words, ID excludes nothing. Here are the only attempts to find something ID excludes, and why I think they fail: Barry suggested that when one theorizes an intelligent cause for some observation, then that theory excludes chance and/or mechanical necessity. But the issue here is the explanatory power of each theory - as measured by what they exclude as possible observations - and not simply one theory being chosen over another. PaV argued that ID excluded (or minimized the probability of) the idea that non-coding DNA was "Junk". I argued that while ID may be a helpful heuristic, it does not exclude the possibility of an intelligent designer including non-functional code (just as human programmers often do in comments, stubs, etc). KF and ET both argued that ID excludes the observation of complex form and function (FSCO/I or whatever) coming about by blind chance and/or mechanical means. This fails for two reasons. First, just as I pointed out to Barry, saying that ID excludes evolutionary explanations doesn't exclude observations, it simply describes two opposing theories for how FSCO/I comes about in biology. And second, when confronted with purely mechanistic systems that produce FSCO/I without intelligent intervention (for example, the action of the immune system, or the machinery that folds proteins), ID can always just resort to saying that while those purely mechanical systems do produce FSCO/I, it's only because that machinery was itself designed by an intelligent source. So here again, there is absolutely no possible observation that is excluded by ID - per the reasoning in PaV's OP here, ID is empty of explanatory power. The rest of the discussion dealt with the design inference, which was not the point of my argument.dogdoc
January 18, 2022
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JVL:
I think you need to explain or expound on that phrase a bit since I’m not clear exactly what you mean since the claim made by the unguided evolutionary crowd is NOT that complex life forms with large genomes came about randomly.
They don't make any testable claims. That is the whole point! You and yours just spew shit and think it's up to us to prove you wrong. Pathetic, really.ET
January 18, 2022
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JVL:
You do realise that, in science, a theory is something that has been verified and established by observation and experimentation?
You do realize, that, in science, just because something has been verified and established by observation and experimentation, doesn't have to have a theory?
It seems you are referring to Dr Dembski’s explanatory filter as supported by his probability model. Which, yes, is supposed to just be a way to detect design.
THe EF just mandates the investigator follow Newton's four rules of scientific reasoning.
Which makes it very strange that there aren’t a lot of, if any, ID journals or academic conferences.
There aren't any unguided evolutionary journals or academic conferences. There isn't any research that supports the claim that any bacterial flagellum evolved by means of blind and mindless processes such as natural selection or drift. Why is that?ET
January 18, 2022
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JVL, do you think my WF headaches could be due to censorship? Or is it I likely fell afoul of algorithms? KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2022
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JVL, I explained FSCO/I above and over years while you were here. Just the Internet is trillions of examples. Go to a big box hardware store, every screw, nut, weed whacker, fishing reel or lamp is an example. Go to a big library, every page in every book is an example. Your watch, your car, a bicycle, instruments on your dash board. Focussing on text, D/RNA is an example, one that has code -- language -- and algorithms -- purpose directed stepwise process. (This is the case that led me to declare independence, those who refuse to acknowledge this have locked their minds.) I did not mention islands of function in config spaces above you reflect that you know context. For that, the parts have to be correctly sized, oriented, arranged, fit together to achieve function, whether an ABU 6500 C fishing reel or a bacterial flagellum, disturb that a little bit and bang, function fails -- ever had mismatched screw threads? So, by far and away most configs are non functional and there are small functional clusters set by tolerances etc. That is commonplace in a tech world and verbal dismissal does not change it. A simple biological case is deep isolation of functional protein fold domains in AA sequence space. Islands is a metaphor but an apt one. Dembski originally IIRC. You try to twist me into a strawman. D/RNA is from 100k to 3+ trillion bases and more in genomes. That is way beyond 500 - 1,000 bits and you knew it all along. The pretence that no one is arguing for OOL by blind chance and/or mechanical necessity in a Darwin warm pond or the like, is a fallacy of gaslighting away an inconvenient fact. Similarly, for new body plans for multicellular species, we are looking at 10 - 100+ million new bases to cover needed genetic information. Again, well beyond threshold. KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2022
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Kairosfocus Just look all around you. The very fact that you are reading this sentence confirms that you are able to distinguish it from noise. That is, FSCO/I is real, we contrast a functional sentence like this, from noise :jhud5rsvhfytdfty, or mechanical patterns, e.g. SASASASASA etc.
:) This seems to be an extremely powerful argument to be played against darwinists, atheists, materialists . 1.Randomness(closed eyes ,hit the keyboard randomnly) : jgerighposkngpsfhg[sodgposirjdflbn 2.Intelligent designed("randomnly" created of my mind): In the last century rich people(via different "organisations") paid for darwinist-atheist propaganda in universities and on Tv(very powerful tools for brainwashing) but somehow truth can't be killed . It's a mistery. Somehow the poor truth will always win against filthy rich people.Lieutenant Commander Data
January 18, 2022
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Kairosfocus: JVL, I got word fenced about half a dozen times, had to chop up response and leave out parts. KF I hear you. My bans last for days and don't allow any postings. Last night I was unable to post to 10 or more threads. JVL, what do you think a trillion member uniform observation base that FSCO/I comes about by design is? Chopped liver? KF I think you need to explain or expound on that phrase a bit since I'm not clear exactly what you mean since the claim made by the unguided evolutionary crowd is NOT that complex life forms with large genomes came about randomly. Also, just to head off another possible retort: there are no islands of function. You assert there is based on your interpretation of the complexity of life forms that came about after millions and millions of years of derivation from common ancestors. But your interpretation has not empirical support. On trillions of observations, FSCO/I beyond 500 – 1,000 bits comes about by intelligently directed configuration. This is confirmed by simple analysis of blind search challenge on sol system or observed cosmos scope resources in 10^17 available seconds so we see why blind search is not a plausible way to get FSCO/I. And no one is claiming it is!! You're arguing against a premise no one is supporting. You're making a straw-man argument. And you've been told as much for years and years but you don't change your tune. You expect us to alter our approaches after you have 'corrected' us but you don't do the same. You absolutely refuse to account for the clearly stated assumptions of your opponents which means you can't even pay them the courtesy of arguing against what they've actually said.JVL
January 18, 2022
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JVL, I got word fenced about half a dozen times, had to chop up response and leave out parts. KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2022
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JVL, what do you think a trillion member uniform observation base that FSCO/I comes about by design is? Chopped liver? KF PS: Computers are planned, are built and are programmed through intelligently directed configurationkairosfocus
January 18, 2022
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Then simply consult the degree of complexity that may be expressed in bits either directly or by reduction to some description language. On trillions of observations, FSCO/I beyond 500 - 1,000 bits comes about by intelligently directed configuration. This is confirmed by simple analysis of blind search challenge on sol system or observed cosmos scope resources in 10^17 available seconds so we see why blind search is not a plausible way to get FSCO/I. I am tired of WF now KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2022
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Jerry: ID is not a theory. It is just science +. You do realise that, in science, a theory is something that has been verified and established by observation and experimentation? People are often hung up on what some proponents of ID such as Dembski did by developing a mathematical approach to support ID and then calling this mathematical approach ID. Their mathematical tool is just that, a tool like logic is a tool. It is not ID. It seems you are referring to Dr Dembski's explanatory filter as supported by his probability model. Which, yes, is supposed to just be a way to detect design. ID is better science than taught at any university on the planet. Which makes it very strange that there aren't a lot of, if any, ID journals or academic conferences. Aside from supposing some conspiracy theory about the idea being suppressed, why do you think that is true? Oh, gosh, I was allowed to post. Who knows how long that will last. Last night I spent a long time trying to respond to about 10 posts to no avail.JVL
January 18, 2022
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Where, "Experience confirms beyond the slightest doubt that acts by intelligent agents frequently result in empirically observable signs of intelligence." For example consult forensics, amd archaeology. So, the WAC continues: Just look all around you. The very fact that you are reading this sentence confirms that you are able to distinguish it from noise. That is, FSCO/I is real, we contrast a functional sentence like this, from noise:jhud5rsvhfytdfty, or mechanical patterns, e.g. SASASASASA etc.kairosfocus
January 18, 2022
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PART C: If you had bothered to look in the UD correctives, you would have seen in the very FIRST corrective:
1] ID is “not science” On the contrary, as Dr William Dembski, a leading intelligent design researcher, has aptly stated: “Intelligent Design is . . . a scientific investigation into how patterns exhibited by finite arrangements of matter can signify intelligence.” . . . . Material causes consist of chance and mechanical necessity (the so called “laws of nature”) or a combination of the two. Yet investigators of the world as far back as Plato have recognized a third type of cause exists – acts by an intelligent agent (i.e., “design”).
This is the triple causal factor pattern at the heart of the explanatory filter.kairosfocus
January 18, 2022
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PART B: As a specific, actual test of this, 13 records from Wikipedia testifying against interest but failing to acknowledge the force of what is there:
The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type any given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare. In fact, the monkey would almost surely type every possible finite text an infinite number of times. However, the probability that monkeys filling the entire observable universe would type a single complete work, such as Shakespeare’s Hamlet, is so tiny that the chance of it occurring during a period of time hundreds of thousands of orders of magnitude longer than the age of the universe is extremely low (but technically not zero) . . . . The theorem concerns a thought experiment which cannot be fully carried out in practice, since it is predicted to require prohibitive amounts of time and resources. Nonetheless, it has inspired efforts in finite random text generation. One computer program run by Dan Oliver of Scottsdale, Arizona, according to an article in The New Yorker, came up with a result on 4 August 2004: After the group had worked for 42,162,500,000 billion billion monkey-years, one of the “monkeys” typed, “VALENTINE. Cease toIdor:eFLP0FRjWK78aXzVOwm)-‘;8.t” The first 19 letters of this sequence can be found in “The Two Gentlemen of Verona”. Other teams have reproduced 18 characters from “Timon of Athens”, 17 from “Troilus and Cressida”, and 16 from “Richard II”.[27] A website entitled The Monkey Shakespeare Simulator, launched on 1 July 2003, contained a Java applet that simulated a large population of monkeys typing randomly, with the stated intention of seeing how long it takes the virtual monkeys to produce a complete Shakespearean play from beginning to end. For example, it produced this partial line from Henry IV, Part 2, reporting that it took “2,737,850 million billion billion billion monkey-years” to reach 24 matching characters: RUMOUR. Open your ears; 9r”5j5&?OWTY Z0d
As I noted, "A mere factor of 10^100 short."kairosfocus
January 18, 2022
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Let me try to respond in steps: PART A: DD, you are doubling down by refusing to acknowledge the answer as to what is 'banned' by ID and would falsify it, which has been there all along from 6 and has been repeated to you for emphasis in 17:
It is not by empirical observation of such FSCO/I coming about by blind chance and/or mechanical necessity — that would instantly shatter the design inference — but by ideological lockout, that the design inference on tested, observed sign has been excluded.
In 13:
As a simple indication on point, if ever it were actually observed that by blind chance and or mechanical necessity without intelligent action over 500 – 1,000 bits of functionally specific information arose, the design inference would fail decisively. That inference is about a causal process, intelligently directed configuration, and not about a designer.
"Such FSCO/I," as can be seen from 13, refers to functionally specific, complex organisation and/or information beyond "500 – 1,000 bits, exhibiting great complexity" and "a pattern" of being specifically configured to function, e.g. the "language [code] and goal-directed stepwise process [algorithm]" that we see in D/RNA in the cell.kairosfocus
January 18, 2022
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I was just Word Fenced. KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2022
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Dogdoc:
Well, no, if we observed a mindless process producing a living organism or a code, then ID would simply claim that the mindless process was itself the product of intelligence.
Your ignorance of science and ID is not an argument. ID specifically claims that blind and mindless processes cannot do certain things.
For another example, computers can learn to generate novel, highly complex artifacts, but ID generally dismisses this as being the result of the human programmers rather than mechanical intelligence.
So, you are stupid. It is a fact that computers and their programs are intelligently designed. It is a fact that computer programs do what they are intelligently designed to do. So yes, obviously what a computer does traces back to us, duh. There isn't any evidence that nature can produce life nor coded information processing systems. There isn't even a way to test the claim that nature can do so. Christopher Hitchens said that we can dismiss such claims.ET
January 18, 2022
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i as an engineer would love to understand, what discovery would Darwinists convince, that species are designed ... actually, there is a perfect one (and obviously, no Darwinist is convinced ) It is a icon of engineering - most engineering offices have it on their visit cards: A MECHANICAL GEAR https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a9449/the-first-gear-discovered-in-nature-15916433/ PS: and of course, this mechanical gear is fully working, helps to synchronize bug's legs when jumping... i would love to hear from biologists (natural science graduates), how a mechanical gear can be designed by blind unguided process by some lucky accident ... all mechanical engineers know, that to design a mechanical gear takes lots of math (so it works properly ) ...martin_r
January 18, 2022
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There is nothing excluded by ID. It accepts all confirmed observations. ID just says that certain processes are unlikely, some extremely unlikely. But will accept any verifiable observations. ID is not a theory. It is just science +. People are often hung up on what some proponents of ID such as Dembski did by developing a mathematical approach to support ID and then calling this mathematical approach ID. Their mathematical tool is just that, a tool like logic is a tool. It is not ID. ID is better science than taught at any university on the planet. jerry
January 18, 2022
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@26 There are no known "mechanistic processes" independent of design and randomness. That's why we always try to understand what drives these unknown "mechanistic processes" rather than just accept them as given. Because we know there's something else behind them.Nonlin.org
January 18, 2022
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Darwinian evolution is self refuting. The fact that we have stable ecologies refutes Darwin’s ideas. Darwin’s ideas are fantastic when explaining genetics where there are limits on change. But unlimited change would destroy an organism - not by deleterious changes (that too) but because it would destroy ecologies.jerry
January 18, 2022
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Dogdoc ...computers can learn ...mechanical intelligence.
:) Nope. Learning and intelligence are the atributes that belong exclusives to humans. A computer can't learn and is as intelligent as a rock , a computer just do the instructions inserted by a programmer .
Well, no, if we observed a mindless process producing a living organism or a code, then ID would simply claim that the mindless process was itself the product of intelligence.
A mindless process can't produce a code. Never observed , never will. Somehow you came to believe that absurdity even there are no evidences . Question is why? :)
Personally I’m of the belief that we don’t really have any way to know how or why the universe began, or why it is the way it is.
For you there is no way to know but if there was a witness of the event there is a way to know. It's about believing the witness or not. In this case believing in witness will result in knowledge that witness uncovers. First believing then knowledge comes.
And of course human programmers are also designed, so when they design computer programs they really aren’t intelligent either – they are just intelligently designed tools also. Right?
Nope.Lieutenant Commander Data
January 18, 2022
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dogdoc
Ah, yes, I suppose it gets hard to keep straight what is actually intelligent from what just appears intelligent but is merely a tool of something actually intelligent.
it is not hard ... i just made a mistake, i just copy+pasted your text, it was a mistake ... so once again, chaperones are molecular machines ... just machines - hardcoded to do certain jobs .... intelligently designed molecular machines ... a nanotechnology if you will ...
And of course human programmers are also designed, so when they design computer programs they really aren’t intelligent either – they are just intelligently designed tools also. Right?
no, this is wrong ... humans where created in God's image = humans are intelligent as is our Creator ... of course, so far, much less skilled engineers .... humans aren't tools ... a computer /computer software is a tool ...martin_r
January 18, 2022
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Martin_r
my bad, …i agree, these are only intelligently designed molecules, doing things for a purpose … designed by an intelligent agent…
Ah, yes, I suppose it gets hard to keep straight what is actually intelligent from what just appears intelligent but is merely a tool of something actually intelligent. Computers or chaperone molecules may produce complex specified information, but that is merely the apparent intelligence of an intelligently designed tool, a mindless conduit for the actual intelligence of the human programmer. Right? And of course human programmers are also designed, so when they design computer programs they really aren't intelligent either - they are just intelligently designed tools also. Right?dogdoc
January 18, 2022
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AM
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