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A Resolution for Darwin Year

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I have accepted an invitation to comment regularly on Uncommon Descent for the Darwin Anniversary 2009 (200 years for Darwin himself and 150 years for Origin of Species). My plan is to draw attention to some ideas, arguments, articles and books relating to the ongoing ID-evolution debate. I’ll also say something about when and where I will be speaking about these matters in the coming year.

 

In particular, my comments will focus on two general lines of thought that have also been featured in two books I have written relating to the debate over the past couple of years. Science vs. Religion? Intelligent Design and the Problem of Evolution and Dissent over Descent: Intelligent Design’s Challenge to Darwinism

  1. Darwinism is an undead 19th century social theory.
  2. ID needs to confront the ‘Pastafarian’ Argument.

 

First, stripped of its current scientific scaffolding, Darwinism is a 19th century social theory that has been turned into a ‘general unified theory of everything’, and as such belongs in the same category as Marxism and Freudianism. The big difference is that Marxism and Freudianism – throughout their existence – have been contested (many would say decisively) by several alternative ways of organizing and interpreting the same body of data. In the case of Darwinism, this largely ended by 1950. However, it doesn’t mean that Darwinism has somehow turned into something other than a 19th century social theory.  No, it’s simply a 19th century social theory with unusual clout. Indeed, Darwinism is really no different from Marxism and Freudianism in using its concepts as rhetorical devices for associating intuitively clear phenomena with rather deep and mysterious causes. I hope to draw your attention to examples of this in the coming weeks.

 

Second, amidst the boneheadedness and bigotry that characterise most attacks on ID, the ‘Flying Spaghetti Monster’ argument needs to be taken seriously. After all, what good is a theory of ‘intelligent design’ if it has nothing to say about the nature of the designer?  ID supporters are susceptible to the charge of ‘Pastafarianism’ because of their reluctance to speak openly about God – understandably, in a scientific culture that is so actively hostile to the very idea. (Also, religious scruples are probably in play.) Nevertheless, the most natural way to make sense, say, Dembski’s ‘explanatory filter’ and Behe’s ‘irreducible complexity’ is as saying something about, respectively, God’s bandwidth and God’s building blocks. Moreover, these are things that people can argue about reasonably, using logic and evidence, just as they would about any other comprehensive explanatory principle, such as ‘natural selection’. But it means returning to the original science of design, or ‘theodicy’, a branch of theology that became increasingly unfashionable after Kant and effectively died after Darwin.

 

Let me close with an observation on this last point, inspired by reading an article by Alex Byrne in the latest issue of the Boston Review. At one level, it is merely a sophisticated version of the familiar pseudo-syllogism: All philosophical arguments for God’s existence fail, ID is a version of one such argument, ergo ID fails. However, much more interesting is Byrne’s rhetorical undertow, which sends the message: ‘Look, you ID people don’t believe in God on rational grounds anyway, so why bother trying to find some? Just admit it’s a matter of faith, and let the scientists get on doing real science.’ If ID supporters grant this point, they effectively remove from scientific inquiry exactly what distinguishes their position from Darwinism, namely, the existence of an intelligent designer. But this in turn means that ID will need to be more forthright in advancing scientific theories of God – what ‘theology’ ought to mean. In other words, a persuasive intelligent design theory should provide rational grounds for believing in the existence of God.

 

Comments
"Your comments are just another version of the “ID-is-creationism-in-a-cheap-tuxedo” argument. It’s called motive mongering." You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't know how the question Fuller posed in the O.P.: "After all, what good is a theory of ‘intelligent design’ if it has nothing to say about the nature of the designer?" ... can be taken as anything other than a statement that everything produced by ID theory is largely irrelevant compared to making statements about the putative "intelligent designer", which is a complete reversal of virtually all ID argument to date concerning the "designer's" role in the theory. It would be the same as a biologist stating that nothing in biology makes sense, or means much, except in light of what statements it can make about evolution, or the origin of life.William J. Murray
December 30, 2008
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-----WJM: “I’ve argued for years against people that attempted to characterize the ID community as largely a stealth mechanism for promoting particular theistic views into classrooms. The cornerstone of that defense was that ID did not make any claims about the nature of the designer; the designer was an irrelevant aspect of the theory, a straw man used by anti-ID advocates to insinuate ID was more about closet theism than science.” You are mixing an awful lot of themes and rolling them into one. To say that one’s science makes no claims about the identity of the designer is not at all the same thing as claiming that the designer’s identity has no relevance. Further, to say that ID cannot (or may never be able to) discern the specific purpose behind the design is not to promise that it will never try. The claim is that current ID methodology cannot now, or possibly never will, discover the designer’s identity and purpose using scientific methods alone. On the other hand, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that ID would probe the theological significance of its scientific conclusions---and they are scientific. None of this has any thing to do with the only point that matters: ID methodology is empirically anchored; “creationist” methodology is faith based. Your comments are just another version of the “ID-is-creationism-in-a-cheap-tuxedo” argument. It’s called motive mongering. -----"Unfortunately, now I’ll have to apologize to them. They were apparently right. Not only do you want to argue that design exists, but you also want to eventually tell little Johnny why “god” designed it, and what its purpose is." You should apologize to your strawman for inflicting cruel and unusual punishment.StephenB
December 30, 2008
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pubdef said "The difference is that no serious scientist would deny the value and scientific imperative of exploring “the ultimate source of gravity.” The “identity of the designer” fence around ID undermines the entire premise that ID is a scientific enterprise." I am afraid they do deny the value as to who/what set the value of gravity and how. It is called Multiverses or infinite number of universes of which our gravity constant happens to be just right. This is such a fatuous approach that is laughable as to what some scientists will say in order to deny the most obvious explanation. So I think this comment is actually an affirmation of forgetting who the designer is till we have more scientific evidence, a lot, lot more.jerry
December 30, 2008
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"That aside, William J., what word would you use to characterize the sites devoted to Darwinism? “Science”?" No. They represent the future of ID sites if we start going down this path, IMO.William J. Murray
December 30, 2008
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It is hard to tell what is tongue in cheek in some of the comments but I fall on the side of keeping as far away from philosophy or theology as possible. They are interesting topics and many here relish the discussions. But I happen to think that showing the Darwinian mechanisms as limited would be the ultimate humiliation of the Darwinists. And this is from one here who gives wide credence to Darwinian processes to the formation of most new life forms in our world. If the average person can understand that survival of the fittest and natural selection are alive and well in our world along with some other processes but that they are very limited in the explanation of much of life then we will have won the game. Most will go on to make the right decisions about the implications of this and many be resentful that the textbooks led them astray. But confusing the issues with the nature of the designer will get one into a quagmire. Watch Steve Fuller in the following video to see what happens when the debate moves away from the science of evolution and see if anything positive happens for ID. http://fora.tv/2007/10/28/Battle_of_Ideas_Debating_Darwin In it Steve Fuller will not admit he believes in Intelligent Design and see how the debate drifts once it gets away from the essential issues. I had previously recommended that no one watch this video but in light of the current thread, I think it is essential given that Steve Fuller is the originator of the thread and its controversial proposition.jerry
December 30, 2008
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"Now, it’s becoming a divining tool for priests to ordain what the divine purpose of the flagellum - and the brain - is." Nothing like understatement. That aside, William J., what word would you use to characterize the sites devoted to Darwinism? "Science"?allanius
December 30, 2008
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"Stepping outside the abstract, look around your room at the various designed things you see. I’d say most, if not all, of these things have clear purposes, and future archeologists won’t be horribly baffled by them. Purpose is [usually] a hallmark of design." Another just-so story, based on a convenient assumption about what you'd find in my room, and an unspoken, convenient set of parameters about the nature of the archaeologists discovering them. "There no reason that speculating about the purpose behind design should be off limits." What anyone does in their home among friends is their business; what gets authorized here as a legitimate part of the ID discussion has ramifications. Holding the line at design inference .. and not purpose or motivation or identity inference ... kept ID a science; now, it's becoming a divining tool for priests to ordain what the divine purpose of the flagellum - and the brain - is. "Speculating about the actual identity of the Designer is a bit more abstract, but the identification of purpose is a step in the right direction." I've argued for years against people that attempted to characterize the ID community as largely a stealth mechanism for promoting particular theistic views into classrooms. The cornerstone of that defense was that ID did not make any claims about the nature of the designer; the designer was an irrelevant aspect of the theory, a straw man used by anti-ID advocates to insinuate ID was more about closet theism than science. Unfortunately, now I'll have to apologize to them. They were apparently right. Not only do you want to argue that design exists, but you also want to eventually tell little Johnny why "god" designed it, and what its purpose is.William J. Murray
December 30, 2008
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William Murray: WeaselSpotting had asked: "2) What sort of purpose of design do you see behind your answer to #1?" I was just answering and expressing my fancy ideas. No pretense to make any scientific discourse there. Just so stories, without any doubt. But stories I just so love.gpuccio
December 30, 2008
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William Murray... Stepping outside the abstract, look around your room at the various designed things you see. I'd say most, if not all, of these things have clear purposes, and future archeologists won't be horribly baffled by them. Purpose is [usually] a hallmark of design. There no reason that speculating about the purpose behind design should be off limits. Speculating about the actual identity of the Designer is a bit more abstract, but the identification of purpose is a step in the right direction.WeaselSpotting
December 30, 2008
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IMO, the main purpose of design is to express ever new, and higher, functions. Unless, of course, it is one's wish to design simpler, more basic functions. Or, aesthetically pleasing designs - "function" be damned, Or, planned obsolescence or eventual dysfunction might be one's design plan. Or, it could be just to frighten and confuse one's creations. One could also be designing something on an assignment. Or, one could be unconsciously designing a universe ... dreams, anyone? Or, various aspects of design could simply be indications of limitations of materials, imagination, or skill on the part of the designer. The problem with this whole line of thought is that it cannot be anything other than "just so" stories that match personal ideology in exactly the same manner that historical, deep-time evolutionary stories, and psycho-evolutionary tales, are "just so" stories based on personal ideology. I was driving through a medium-sized Texas city one day with my wife, and we passed this monumental shriners museum. I had grown up around there, and knew that only a very few people ever even visited the place; its immense parking lot was almost always completely empty. I remarked, "You know, thousands of years from now, archaeologists might uncover this and assume it was the center of everyone's existence here, because it's so huge and has such a huge parking lot. In truth, almost nobody around here ever had any idea what it was for, or what went on inside."William J. Murray
December 30, 2008
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Awesome responses, gpuccio. Perhaps in the future, ID scientists will be the ones to sequence the lungfish genome!WeaselSpotting
December 30, 2008
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WeaselSpotting: I forgot your question #2. IMO, the main purpose of design is to express ever new, and higher, functions. In that sense, I completely disagree with the darwinian approach that survival is all. If that were true, "evolution" would have rather stopped to bacteria (still the most successful living organisms on earth), or just to stones, which are very good at survival. I believe that there is in the biological world a continuous impulse to express new functions, to experiment with them, and to creatively enjoy them. The Designer is not only smart: He is a true artist, and as an artist He enjoys form, and creates it continuously. Let's say that I believe that flight evolved so many times not because of convergent evolution, or just because it is better for survival, but because it's beautiful, and interesting, and such fun!gpuccio
December 30, 2008
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WeaselSpotting: I don't belong in the frontloading camp. There is certainly some evidence for partial front-loading, that is to say that some plans may include information for future self-adaptation, and I am fine with that. But I see no reason why the designer should have packed everything in a primal organism, and no evidence of that. The mystery of the C value, and of the huge size of the genome in some "simple" organisms (amoeba, lungfish) could be an argument for front-loading, but I would rather wait that those huge genomes be sequenced (I am really curious about that: in a true scientific culture, which recognizes in the exploration of the unknown a promise of unexpected knowledge, that should be a priority!). Another argument in favor of front-loading could be the evidence of the existence in simpler organism of proteins whose function seems more evident only in higher organisms, but I that even that is perfectly compatible with the idea of continuous progressive design (the designer may well develop and implement his ideas gradually, in successive steps, preparing fundamental functions in previous implementations to be able to fully develop them in the future: that would be an example of how the design itself could give clues to the intentions of the designer, showing that a general plan of future implementations was already present from the beginning, but it is not the same concept as front-loading). I think that the strongest reason for the frontloading scenario is that its supporters really don't believe that the designer may have access to continuous, persisting implementation of design. There are two different reasons for that, both, in a way, "religious": either they do not believe that the designer is a god, and stick to the idea that it is more something like aliens (an idea which I don't share, but which is IMO perfectly admissible); or they do believe in God, but for some strange reason they think that a God who "intervenes" in His creation is in some way less "smart" than a frontloading God (an idea which I really don't understand, but which I can at least respect). I am all for God's intervention, as much of it as possible, the more the better. But I don't like to think of that intervention as necessarily "miraculous" (although I am not excluding miracles). I prefer to think of God's intervention as a very "natural" principle in reality, continuously giving it order and meaning which could never come out of the basic laws of physics which we know today, but which has no need to contradict them (if not in the restricted understanding of strict materialists). Still, I have no ideas of the modalities and procedures of that continuous intervention, and I believe that we have much to learn from science about that in the future. At present, I can only recognize that there are strong arguments to believe that, in the implementation of biological information, there are certainly sudden "leaps", and that a scenario of true guided gradualism seems not feasible. The arguments against strict gradualism are IMO essentially two: a) The two "explosions" (ediacaran and cambrian), whose importance can only be underestimated (and I must say that darwinist do their "best" to try to underestimate it!). b) The lack of intermediates. And I don't mean the lack of one or two fossil intermediates, but the lack of billions of molecular intermediates. There is no doubt that we observe biological information in discrete, and not continuous, quantities, of which species are just the "smallest" unit. So, my suggestion of "continuous" modifications, with possible “punctuated equilibriums”, was after all a good formulation of my ideas.gpuccio
December 30, 2008
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Gpucio (52): 'But, why not “continuos” modifications? With possible “punctuated equilibriums”? ' That's another possibility, certainly. You might run up against the folks who see microevolution as taking care of the Designer's tedious chores, but not necessarily. A couple questions to you: 1) To which camp do you see the evidence leading? Why? 2) What sort of purpose of design do you see behind your answer to #1?WeaselSpotting
December 30, 2008
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Atom (#24): As usual, I very much agree with you. To just put it in my words: 1) It is important that ID maintains its scientific identity, as a scientific theory with a limited and specific object. ID is not a philosophy, and not a scientific theory of everything (in other words, it is not a "great unification theory"). 2) That said, there is no reason to limit the implications of ID both in the scientific and in the philosophical field. There is no reason to do that for any theory. ID can certainly expand itself in the scientific field: for instance, the identity and nature of the designer can certainly be understood better by a scientific investigation of the design, and through perfectly scientific methods. Perhaps we could call that "extended ID", and I am all for it, only I do believe that at present we have not yet much to say about that, maybe for lack of scientific data, maybe for lack of scientific reasoning about that. 3) And I certainly believe that ID has important implications for philosophy, which go well beyond a "simple" support to the existence of a God. And we should probably remember that philosophy is important, and that science is not the only source of knowledge, as materialists would want us to believe. Indeed, science is impossible without philosophy (and I believe the opposite is equally true). And probably nobody can really say where exactly philosophy becomes science, and vice versa. 4) So, our only commitment should be to good knowledge of reality. That is mine, anyway. And all good maps are welcome. But, as a map is useful only if the right map is used in the right context, let's keep the precious map of "strict ID" for the many occasions when it is needed. It is a very good and powerful map, and many times it will help us to find our lost way.gpuccio
December 30, 2008
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WeaselSpotting (#42): "There seems to be some (brotherly) debate between a couple of ID camps. You’ve got the frontloaders, who believe that IC was pre-loaded into the primal organisms, versus the folks who believe that the Designer made intermittent modifications along the way." Well, I am definitely in the second camp. And I have empirical evidence for that: even Bill Gates was not able to front-load Vista in the first DOS! :-) But, why not "continuos" modifications? With possible "punctuated equilibriums"?gpuccio
December 30, 2008
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Hello Professor Fuller I respectfully disagree with your position on how to deal with the FSM. Merely dealing with it is giving it more credibility than it deserves. If ID is to engage in "dealing with" the FSM, it should be only to provide a rational contrast between the two. For example, it is a known fact that the FSM is willfully propagated under the assumption that God does not exist, so one would assume as well that the FSM has an equal likelihood that it doesn't exist too. Of note, Henderson doesn't and never did really believe the FSM existed, so the entire concept is built around a lie. Who wants to hear about a known lie, when evidence of design in the natural realm is increasing? Making a distinct contrast to the frivolity abounding in noodly imaginations...I quote a cogent observation from.... Stephen Meyer says... [W]e have repeated experience of rational and conscious agents-in particular ourselves-generating or causing increases in complex specified information, both in the form of sequence-specific lines of code and in the form of hierarchically arranged systems of parts. … Our experience-based knowledge of information-flow confirms that systems with large amounts of specified complexity (especially codes and languages) invariably originate from an intelligent source from a mind or personal agent. (Stephen C. Meyer, "The origin of biological information and the higher taxonomic categories," Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, Vol. 117(2):213-239 (2004).) Can one say the same for the FSM? My hope is for research to continue along a design methodology. Let the evidence for ID speak louder than the FSM. I think staying out of the debacle of "identifying the designer" is wise, unless it is to only expose the FSM for what it really is....known to not exist. At least with ID, we know evidence for design exists.Bantay
December 29, 2008
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The difference is that no serious scientist would deny the value and scientific imperative of exploring “the ultimate source of gravity.” He would if you tried to use a thermometer.tribune7
December 29, 2008
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allanius @30. Yes, and I agree with you at 20. This is getting scary.StephenB
December 29, 2008
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#31:
Good question but there is also a bit of irony inherent in this question because those who criticize ID’s reluctance to address this issue seem to totally discount its bearing on their own explanations. The question could be restated “what good is a theory of gravity if we can’t say something about the ultimate source of gravity?” For the materialist this eventually falters in an infinite regression or “it’s turtles all the way down”. So the argument “who designed the designer” as a road block to ID arguments, if valid, should be just as devastating to those who reject ID.
The difference is that no serious scientist would deny the value and scientific imperative of exploring "the ultimate source of gravity." The "identity of the designer" fence around ID undermines the entire premise that ID is a scientific enterprise.pubdef
December 29, 2008
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#29:
Accordingly, we cannot allow our adversaries (or our friends) to hold our own modesty against us. At the present time, ID can show only that a “designer” exists. Unlike Darwinists, ID scientists know what it can and cannot do.
That doesn't seem like a fruitful scientific attitude; reminds me of something I heard Behe say (can't track it down now, regretably) about scientists needing to know when to take "no" for an answer. I understand that kind of thinking in mathematics (existence theorems, I think they're called, e.g., there's no way to trisect an angle with a compass and straightedge, and here's why, so don't waste time on it), but I don't know that there's anything like that in biology.
If only our adversaries understood their limitations half as well. At the moment, ID cannot explain how the “actor acts,” and it may well never be able to do it. Actors are, after all, under no obligation to act any certain way. Indeed, that is what the actor’s intelligence and creativity are all about—the capacity to surprise, create, and act one way or another or even to not act at all.
Thank you; that's an excellent articulation of the methodological problem I mentioned in my original post (#11, problem 1).pubdef
December 29, 2008
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#19:
I couldn’t disagree with you more. Going down this road is a fool’s choice. The answer to your question is simple: The nature of the Designer is not a scientific question. Forcing it into the conversation will eliminate ID from the debate. [emphasis added by me]
Is there any reason why your statement that I italicized must be true? More pointedly, doesn't it assume something about the nature of the designer?pubdef
December 29, 2008
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(first, pardon me for posting five separate responses, but it seemed preferable to a single post with five barely related points) #15:
In any case, ID has a real dialectical problem on its hands. Half the Darwinists believe that design in nature is illusory, but the other half believe there is design but no need for a designer to explain it. This means that as long as ID confines itself simply to showing examples of design in nature, it is not likely to make much headway. Half the Darwinists will question the design, and the other half will grant the design but find the need for a designer (and hence ID) superfluous. You can’t win with those odds.
I don't know who this "other half" are. I would think that anyone who conceded design but denied a designer would have to be talking about "design," the appearance of design, which would seem indistinguishable from the "half the Darwinists" you mention first.pubdef
December 29, 2008
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#14:
If it can be reasonably argued that a mind, any kind of agency, is responsible for nature writ large.. then the atheist has lost across the board. ‘Well, maybe the creator was the FSM!’ is a meaningless quibble at that point, because establishing the justification of concluding the most basic creator is poison to the atheist position.
The point, as I see it, is that "the justification of concluding the most basic creator" cannot be had in the absence (worse, in the steadfast denial of the relevance) of any information about, or investigation into, who or what such a creator/designer could possibly be. Think about this: NDE is rejected on the basis, among others, of its improbability. How can you even begin to compare the probability of a designer without any knowledge of its attributes?pubdef
December 29, 2008
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I'll chime in briefly and say that IMO, the ID movement should be about nothing more than popularizing the notion that design is an acceptable inference from evidence, regardless of its source. Design is design is design, and it can be reasonably inferred. The ID movement should continue to expose the question-begging constraints placed upon the materialist definition of science. ID science should be about nothing more than the sum of the research that supports a design inference, and the research conducted under that inference. Anything else is political nonsense. If identification of the designer is scientifically feasible, then those desiring to pursue it can themselves labor for that cause under its own banner. >end transmissionApollos
December 29, 2008
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There seems to be some (brotherly) debate between a couple of ID camps. You've got the frontloaders, who believe that IC was pre-loaded into the primal organisms, versus the folks who believe that the Designer made intermittent modifications along the way. Both views have strong support, but the resolution of this debate should provide some idea as to the Designer's purpose, which then gives clues as to His identity. In the frontloading case, the Designer would seem to be willing to let life unfold for His own enjoyment and wonder. In the intermittent design scenario, He clearly desires that some end be obtained, overseeing the project and stepping in with great frequency, unwilling to let the project be sidetracked.WeaselSpotting
December 29, 2008
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This is an important time for the ID crew. Dr. Steve Fuller offers an oppurtunity (perhaps our last chance) for us to create a coherent alternative to Darwinism. The alternative to Darwinism is creationism because neither is science (rimshot) :-)tribune7
December 29, 2008
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Platonist wrote:
This is an important time for the ID crew. Dr. Steve Fuller offers an oppurtunity (perhaps our last chance) for us to create a coherent alternative to Darwinism. All that Dembski, Behe, Wells and Meyer have fought for are at stake here, this our last chance.
I doubt that is true. If ID represents the reality of nature, then there is no "last chance" for ID; the design hypothesis would always remain viable since it would be true. I don't think much will change in 2009, except perhaps more ID research will be done and new ID based theories will be fleshed out. Let's just continue to build the science and forget about the nay-sayers; they will always be there when you're trying something new.Atom
December 29, 2008
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This is an important time for the ID crew. Dr. Steve Fuller offers an oppurtunity (perhaps our last chance) for us to create a coherent alternative to Darwinism. All that Dembski, Behe, Wells and Meyer have fought for are at stake here, this our last chance.Platonist
December 29, 2008
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They can’t both be right. Teleological design and random stochastic processes are simply oxymoronic. Either it is one or the other; it cannot be both.
Why not co-existence?Patrick
December 29, 2008
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