Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Three Things Biologists Rarely Know About Biology

Categories
Biology
Evolution
Share
Facebook
Twitter/X
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

I’ve talked to a number of biologists, and it seems like there are a number of important facts that are left out of a standard biological education.

The following things seem to be either skipped or glossed over in biology education. These are based on my interactions with biology majors, grad students, and even post docs. Nearly everyone either has either forgotten them (which means their professors just mentioned them in passing) or they were never covered in the first place.

    1. The pervasiveness of directed mutation. Most biologists do not realize that directed mutations even exist, much less the extent to which they exist. This is due both to a lack of knowledge about the mutational systems which are known, as well as to a lack of understanding of what it means for something to be directed. Most biologists are trained to think of mutations as being “undirected” if they aren’t 100% on-target. However, there are systems which reduce the mutational search space by well over 99%. Within the tiny space remaining, the search may be random, but it is directed because (a) it is triggered by a need of the organism, and (b) it skips a significant chunk of the genome which is not likely to carry the result.
    2. The significance in symbiosis in evolution. Most biologists are only trained to see mutations as being significant in evolution. That any change in form or interbreedability must be due to mutation. The one exception is at the beginning of Eukarya, they permit themselves to believe in endosymbiosis. However, as numerous areas of biology have shown, gaining or losing a symbiont can actually generate significant morphological change in a single generation.
    3. The importance of non-genetic inputs to the resulting morphology. Many differences in form, including heritable ones, can result from non-genetic inputs. The simplest of these is prions, where the shape of a protein affects the shape of later generated proteins. If a similar protein has a different conformation, it can alter the conformation of later proteins. This can cause phenotypic changes which are heritable, but are not in any way genetic.

In fact, the field of Ecological Developmental Biology has a number of examples of #2 and #3. Organisms can change morphologies merely due to the presence of pheromones in the environment. If those triggers persist after several generations, oftentimes the trait will the “stick” even without the environmental driver!

Anyway, I’ve found that evolution has essentially blinded numerous biologists and funneled them all into an understanding of evolution which is directly counter to how organisms are experimentally understood to change. Certainly there are many great biologists who understand these issues. However, I might go as far as to say that a majority of biologists are poorly informed on these points.

Comments
@johnnyb and others If you want to be taken seriously you need to provide real references to research papers, or books by biologists like Shapiro. (Did he claim that the search space is reduced by 99%? Where did that come from?) Quotes from your own youtube videos don't cut it. (I will take a look though.) Two examples of symbiotic change are not overwhelming. And I still need a reference. The Drosophila one I already know about. The Drosophila symbiont in question is Wolbachia. It has coopted an essential process in germ cells--it's more like a parasitic disease than symbiosis in most cases. The reason for the sterility is because Wolbachia causes incompatibility between infected males and non-infected males, and other things as well. Read Wikipedia at the very least, for heavens sake, before claiming speciation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolbachia My goal here is not to diss you. It is to raise the level of discussion. Wild claims need clear evidence. If you are going to say that you have knowledge of biology that other biologists lack, you had better be able to substantiate it by references to the primary literature or quotes from books. And my comments are aimed not just at you but at many other posters. Take it as friendly criticism from a biologist. Raise your game.caleb
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
08:01 AM
8
08
01
AM
PDT
HUH??? Cite Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists about the detrimental effects of atheism on mental and physical health and Bob (and weave) responds with,,, "I guess that means that you aren’t a psychiatrist, and can’t cite any psychiatrists to beck up a diagnosis of mental illness.",,, DUH!!! I guess I could cite Bob's response itself as confirming evidence that atheists suffer acutely from Darwinian Cognitive Dissonance Disorder (DCDD). :) But anyways here are Prof. Sims credentials:
Is Faith Delusion?: Why Religion is Good for Your Health About the author (2009) For more than twenty years, Andrew Sims was Professor of Psychiatry in the University of Leeds. He was consecutively Dean (1987-1990), President (1990-93) and the first Director of Continuing Professional Development (1993-97) of the Royal College of Psychiatrists. He edited Advances in Psychiatric Treatment from its inception in 1993 until 2003, and was founder editor of Developing Mental Health (2002-5). He has chaired the Spirituality and Psychiatry Special Interest Group of the Royal College of Psychiatrists and has also served on the General Medical Council. The author of 12 books and over 200 papers, he has published and spoken widely on the interface between religious faith and mental illness. https://books.google.com/books/about/Is_Faith_Delusion.html?id=jdPUAwAAQBAJ
bornagain77
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
07:55 AM
7
07
55
AM
PDT
Bob:
Being a psychiatrist means that at least one has experience in dealing with mental health issues.
The same can be said about being a parent. :cool:ET
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
07:47 AM
7
07
47
AM
PDT
ba77 @ 8 - OK, so I guess that means that you aren't a psychiatrist, and can't cite any psychiatrists to beck up a diagnosis of mental illness. ET @ 11 - ba77 was making a diagnosis of mental illness. Being a psychiatrist means that at least one has experience in dealing with mental health issues.Bob O'H
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
07:30 AM
7
07
30
AM
PDT
Bob:
Brian Miller’s education is in physics, not psychiatry.
And? Does that mean that unlike psychiatrists and psychologists he can actually back up his claims? Or do you actually think that being a psychiatrist means something?ET
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
07:10 AM
7
07
10
AM
PDT
This has been publicized in the popular press since 1986 or before, when I read about it. This type of intentional cover up in the textbooks should be a major scandal in any field of study; for some reason biology is tolerant of this type of thing. Here is a piece from 1990: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg12717342-900-science-can-bacteria-direct-their-own-evolution/groovamos
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
07:04 AM
7
07
04
AM
PDT
I don't have time to respond in detail at the moment, but thought I would point to a few resources: (1) I did a video many years ago summarizing some really interesting new areas in mutation studies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJwWhhpua_o&list=PLED30A9B8304C8C21 (2) You might also check out the series I did for UD many years ago on directed mutation: Responding to Merlin (3) On symbiosis, check out this evolution of a cecal valve due to a new novel symbiotic association: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2290806/ To see the blindness of biologists to the effects of symbiosis, check out this quote by Lynn Margulis from her book Symbiotic Planet:
I once asked the eloquent and personable paleontologist Niles Eldredge whether he knew of any case in which the formation of a new species had been documented. I told him I'd be satisfied if his example were drawn from the laboratory, from the field, or from observations from the fossil record. He could muster only one good example. Theodosius Dobzhansky's experiments with Drosophila, the fruit fly. In this fascinating experiment, populations of fruit flies, bred at progressively hotter temperatures, became genetically separated. After two years or so the hot-bred ones bould no longer produce fertile offspring with their cold-breeding brethren. "But," Eldredge quickly added, "that turned out to have something to do with a parasite!" Indeed, it was later discovered that the hot-breeding flies lacked an intracellular symbiotic bacterium found in the cold breeders. Eldredge dismissed this case as an observation of speciation because it entailed a microbial symbiosis! He had been taught, as we all have, that microbes are germs, and when you have germs, you have a disease, not a new species. And he had been taught that evolution through natural selection occurs by the gradual accumulation, over eons, of single gene mutations...
(4) As for the importance of non-genetic inputs to morphology, what I really had in mind was Jonathan Wells' work, but I didn't then (and don't now) have the time to look it up. If someone wants to link to it I would appreciate it. I don't even think it originated with Wells, but he has made it more prominent.johnnyb
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
06:53 AM
6
06
53
AM
PDT
Well Bob, since to experts you appealed to experts we will go: The following found that ALL people, especially including atheists, (i.e. people who have voiced a predisposition to believe that they are not really people at all but are really neuronal illusions :) ), have a tendency to believe in God and also have an innate, deep-seated, ability to 'detect design':
Predisposed to believe - July 2011 Excerpt: Science Daily reports “A three-year international research project, directed by two academics at the University of Oxford, finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife.” As my friend added, “This research was quite costly – they could have saved money by reading the Bible!” https://uncommondescent.com/creationism/predisposed-to-believe/ Design Thinking Is Hardwired in the Human Brain. How Come? - October 17, 2012 Excerpt: "Even Professional Scientists Are Compelled to See Purpose in Nature, Psychologists Find." The article describes a test by Boston University's psychology department, in which researchers found that "despite years of scientific training, even professional chemists, geologists, and physicists from major universities such as Harvard, MIT, and Yale cannot escape a deep-seated belief that natural phenomena exist for a purpose" ,,, Most interesting, though, are the questions begged by this research. One is whether it is even possible to purge teleology from explanation. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/10/design_thinking065381.html
The following video and studies found that the belief in God and/or Design is a 'knee jerk' reaction even for atheists. Moreover, in the video it is shown that atheists have to mentally work suppressing their innate design inference!
Is Atheism a Delusion? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ii-bsrHB0o Richard Dawkins take heed: Even atheists instinctively believe in a creator says study - Mary Papenfuss - June 12, 2015 Excerpt: Three studies at Boston University found that even among atheists, the "knee jerk" reaction to natural phenomenon is the belief that they're purposefully designed by some intelligence, according to a report on the research in Cognition entitled the "Divided Mind of a disbeliever." The findings "suggest that there is a deeply rooted natural tendency to view nature as designed," writes a research team led by Elisa Järnefelt of Newman University. They also provide evidence that, in the researchers' words, "religious non-belief is cognitively effortful." Researchers attempted to plug into the automatic or "default" human brain by showing subjects images of natural landscapes and things made by human beings, then requiring lightning-fast responses to the question on whether "any being purposefully made the thing in the picture," notes Pacific-Standard. "Religious participants' baseline tendency to endorse nature as purposefully created was higher" than that of atheists, the study found. But non-religious participants "increasingly defaulted to understanding natural phenomena as purposefully made" when "they did not have time to censor their thinking," wrote the researchers. The results suggest that "the tendency to construe both living and non-living nature as intentionally made derives from automatic cognitive processes, not just practised explicit beliefs," the report concluded. The results were similar even among subjects from Finland, where atheism is not a controversial issue as it can be in the US. "Design-based intuitions run deep," the researchers conclude, "persisting even in those with no explicit religious commitment and, indeed, even among those with an active aversion to them." http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/richard-dawkins-take-heed-even-atheists-instinctively-believe-creator-says-study-1505712 Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke By Nury Vittachi | July 6th 2014 Excerpt: “atheism is psychologically impossible because of the way humans think,” says Graham Lawton, an avowed atheist himself, writing in the New Scientist. “They point to studies showing, for example, that even people who claim to be committed atheists tacitly hold religious beliefs, such as the existence of an immortal soul.” This shouldn’t come as a surprise, since we are born believers, not atheists, scientists say.,,, This feeling of having an awareness of another consciousness might simply be the way our natural operating system works.,,, Of course these findings do not prove that it is impossible to stop believing in God. What they do indicate, quite powerfully, is that we may be fooling ourselves if we think that we are making the key decisions about what we believe, and if we think we know how deeply our views pervade our consciousnesses.,,, http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982
It is not that Atheists do not see Design in nature, it is that they, for whatever severely misguided reason, live in denial of the Design that they themselves see.
"Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed, but rather evolved." - Francis Crick, in What Mad Pursuit, p. 138 (1990)
I hold the preceding studies (and quote) to be confirming evidence for Romans 1:19-20
Romans 1:19-20 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Of further note: The following studies found that this 'knee jerk' instinct to believe in God and/or Design is with us from childhood:
Children are born believers in God, academic claims - 24 Nov 2008 Excerpt: "Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3512686/Children-are-born-believers-in-God-academic-claims.html
As to the fact that the Atheist's suffer mentally and physically as a result of suppressing their natural belief in God, I cite this book from Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists
“I maintain that whatever else faith may be, it cannot be a delusion. The advantageous effect of religious belief and spirituality on mental and physical health is one of the best-kept secrets in psychiatry and medicine generally. If the findings of the huge volume of research on this topic had gone in the opposite direction and it had been found that religion damages your mental health, it would have been front-page news in every newspaper in the land.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health - preface https://books.google.com/books?id=PREdCgAAQBAJ&pg=PR11#v=onepage&q&f=false “In the majority of studies, religious involvement is correlated with well-being, happiness and life satisfaction; hope and optimism; purpose and meaning in life; higher self-esteem; better adaptation to bereavement; greater social support and less loneliness; lower rates of depression and faster recovery from depression; lower rates of suicide and fewer positive attitudes towards suicide; less anxiety; less psychosis and fewer psychotic tendencies; lower rates of alcohol and drug use and abuse; less delinquency and criminal activity; greater marital stability and satisfaction… We concluded that for the vast majority of people the apparent benefits of devout belief and practice probably outweigh the risks.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health – page 100 https://books.google.com/books?id=PREdCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA100#v=onepage&q&f=false
And the detrimental physical effects on the health of Atheists is found to b rather pronounced in the following study.
Can attending church really help you live longer? This study says yes - June 1, 2017 Excerpt: Specifically, the study says those middle-aged adults who go to church, synagogues, mosques or other houses of worship reduce their mortality risk by 55%. The Plos One journal published the "Church Attendance, Allostatic Load and Mortality in Middle Aged Adults" study May 16. "For those who did not attend church at all, they were twice as likely to die prematurely than those who did who attended church at some point over the last year," Bruce said. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/06/02/can-attending-church-really-help-you-live-longer-study-says-yes/364375001/
Verse:
Romans 1:28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.
bornagain77
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
06:21 AM
6
06
21
AM
PDT
caleb:
“Most biologists are trained to think of mutations as being “undirected” if they aren’t 100% on-target. ” No they aren’t.
They are taught that all mutations are undirected- the result of chance alone.
They are taught that mutations occur without respect to the needs of the organism.
There are mutations which occur that do benefit the organism. If you want to read about the evidence for directed mutations read "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century" by James ShapiroET
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
06:03 AM
6
06
03
AM
PDT
ba77 - Brian Miller's education is in physics, not psychiatry. I'm curious to know what psychiatric qualifications you have that make you feel competent to diagnose psychiatric conditions in others. Are you, for example, a member of the American Psychiatric Association?Bob O'H
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
04:53 AM
4
04
53
AM
PDT
A big question is, how many biologists can even afford to know what is going on here? Consider what happened to Gunter Bechly: “Erased” paleontologist Bechly gets support from Science and Health Council Aren't they safer as Aren’t I good? girls?News
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
04:11 AM
4
04
11
AM
PDT
As to:
"I’ve found that evolution has essentially blinded numerous biologists and funneled them all into an understanding of evolution which is directly counter to how organisms are experimentally understood to change."
Otherwise known as Darwinian Cognitive Dissonance Disorder (DCDD). Yes folks, it is a mental disease. But there is hope:
Cognitive Conditioning and the Distortion of Reality - Brian Miller - April 17, 2018 Excerpt: On the bright side, I have found that the cognitive conditioning, (i.e. DCDD), can be overcome by those who have a very strong desire to know the truth. And people who leave philosophically oppressive academic institutions often find work in environments that are much more congenial to exploration. The conditioning can then wane, and their design-detection capacities and critical thinking can reengage. At that point, many describe a process where “scales seemed to fall from my eyes,” and the evidence for design in nature becomes self-evident, as does the logical incoherence of many materialist rationalizations to deny it. https://evolutionnews.org/2018/04/cognitive-conditioning-and-the-distortion-of-reality/
bornagain77
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
03:14 AM
3
03
14
AM
PDT
I think johnnyb's point is that although these things are known by biologists as a whole, individual biologists don't know them. Of course, there are a lot of things individual biologists don't know about biology. The directed mutations point is something that I think is interesting in its own right, except is isn't directed mutation, as johnnyb basically admits. I think it might be better not to resort to what looks like sophistry. Perhaps say that "evolution that looks like directed mutation is pervasive". That way you can get to explaining some fascinating biology without looking like you have an agenda.Bob O'H
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
01:41 AM
1
01
41
AM
PDT
I think you should consider the possibility that biologists know more about these topics than you do. Take the first example I guess you are talking about somatic hypermutation when you are talking about "directed" mutations, but these are somatic (so irrelevant to evolution) and not directed.cornu
April 19, 2018
April
04
Apr
19
19
2018
12:41 AM
12
12
41
AM
PDT
@johnnyb If you are going to make claims like these, you had better have references, and lots of them. 1. I can take a guess as to what you are referring to but you make a number of misstatements along the way, "Most biologists are trained to think of mutations as being “undirected” if they aren’t 100% on-target. " No they aren't. They are taught that mutations occur without respect to the needs of the organism. "However, there are systems which reduce the mutational search space by well over 99%." That's a pretty good trick if it works. Are you thinking of Susan Rosenberg's work? References? 2. Endosymbiosis. Can you show examples of gaining or losing a symbiont? References? How many examples? If you want to claim this plays a significant role there had better be a lot. 3. Non-genetic inputs. Prions are a pretty poor example of positive evolution. They are misfolded proteins that are toxic. And I doubt they are heritable. You pass on the tendency to develop prions but not the prions themselves. References? Presence or absence of pheromones can certainly trigger large scale changes, such as sex reversal in fish. But they aren't going to be a pathway for evolution. Those are programmed responses necessary to create a new morphology, a program that is likely the product of design. How do you evolve a process to create a female fish when there is none? One of the males makes the change. How does that work? There is no reproduction until you get it right. But it's never been done before and there are a lot of steps. That happens by evolution or by design?References? Maybe biologists haven't heard of these mechanisms because they aren't significant or heritable. Or because they aren't as described here.caleb
April 18, 2018
April
04
Apr
18
18
2018
10:00 PM
10
10
00
PM
PDT
1 2

Leave a Reply