Eric Metaxas on the unlikelihood of our existence

_{Denyse O'Leary

December 9, 2014

Fine tuning, News}

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Further to: Anything to get rid of fine tuning:

“Reason and science compels us to see what previous generations could not: that our existence is an outrageous and astonishing miracle, one so startlingly and perhaps so disturbingly miraculous that it makes any miracle like the parting of the Red Sea pale in such insignificance that it almost becomes unworthy of our consideration, as though it were something done easily by a child, half-asleep. It is something to which the most truly human response is some combination of terror and wonder, of ancient awe, and childhood joy.” Eric Metaxas – Miracles – pages 55-56

See also:Copernicus, you are not going to believe who is using your name. Or how.

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Hat tip: Philip Cunningham

Comments

Mung,
If people aren’t answering to your satisfaction perhaps it is because your question is ill-formed.
No, it's a perfectly well-formed, intelligible question:
I’m genuinely interested, though — how do you explain this to yourself? Why does a perfectly loving God consistently, with no exceptions, refuse to do a small kindness that we, despite our imperfections, wouldn’t hesitate to do?
It's no surprise that you can't answer it.keith s_{December 10, 2014
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Keith S, "I’m genuinely interested, though — how do you explain this to yourself? Why does a perfectly loving God consistently, with no exceptions, refuse to do a small kindness that we, despite our imperfections, wouldn’t hesitate to do?" I was visiting friends this last weekend. They live in a large house, because the Lord has been generous to them. In the basement of their house they have a room that is the community's "chapel". Above the chapel room is their kitchen. While I was there, they loaded their dish washer, turned it on (or at least believe they had) then left. Hours later they returned to find that the dishwasher was not on, so they turned it on. At the same time the children were playing in the chapel. The children noticed water coming through the ceiling. As the water had just begun, the dish washer was turned off, and the small mess cleaned up. A little exploration showed that a rodent had chewed through the dishwasher's drain hose. (Long story, but had they been listening, they wouldn't have had the rodent incident at all.) Now, had the first attempt to turn on the dish washer worked, well they would have had a supreme mess on their hands. As it was, they ended up with a nuisance small enough that the the local supply of toilet paper was sufficient to fix it. You said, "with no exceptions". I say, this is an exception. Personally, I see this kind of exception, this kind of protection and provision happening in my life all of the time. I find many exceptions to assertion. I still don't believe that it is in our best interest for God to coddle us so much that we never ever get stuck with no toilet paper. If you think otherwise, well, "Bruce Almighty".Moose Dr_{December 10, 2014
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keiths:
I’m genuinely interested, though — how do you explain this to yourself? Why does a perfectly loving God consistently, with no exceptions, refuse to do a small kindness that we, despite our imperfections, wouldn’t hesitate to do?
I once stood by while someone tortured my son with a needle. At least, that's the narrative I saw in his accusing eyes. Why wouldn't daddy do the small "kindness" of objecting to this torture? Immunization wasn't a concept he could understand. I've withheld innumerable additional "kindnesses" over the years, motivated by an overwhelming love and concern for him. Sometimes I only get tears of anger as my thanks. He doesn't understand my reasons, and frankly, doesn't care. If I could have done, I might have extended "kindness" to an innocent Jew condemned to die on a cross. What do I know of propitiation? Thankfully, God did not extend such "kindness" to his only Son. I'm more interested in how one goes about convincing oneself that one is so eminently qualified in evaluating what is and isn't kind. Maybe one should start by explaining something easier, like gravity. Or, as Someone answered a similar question:
Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone— while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?
And it goes on like that. I'd encourage you to read the last four chapters of Job for a much better answer than I could ever give. It might inspire some humility.Phinehas_{December 10, 2014
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keith s #32 Perhaps Luke 18:1-30 will help you understand, at least in part.littlejohn_{December 10, 2014
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It's ok keiths. People got along without toilet paper for thousands of years and never blamed God for it not being handed to them. You're special I guess. If people aren't answering to your satisfaction perhaps it is because your question is ill-formed. Are you asking us to explain why God is not kind? I think God is kind. For example, we don't defecate out our noses. I think that' a kindness. Our arms are long enough that we can actually wipe our butts. I think that' a kindness. We don't have to lick ourselves to clean ourselves. I think that' a kindness. Just what point are you trying to make?Mung_{December 10, 2014
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Is no one willing to answer the actual question?
I’m genuinely interested, though — how do you explain this to yourself? Why does a perfectly loving God consistently, with no exceptions, refuse to do a small kindness that we, despite our imperfections, wouldn’t hesitate to do?
How do you explain this to yourselves?keith s_{December 10, 2014
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Can you imagine if keiths was the original adam? God creates a garden, creates keiths and places him in the garden, and tells him to eat whatever he likes from the trees. keiths admires the garden, admires the fruit, and reasons that because God didn't hand the fruit to him that there's no need of God to explain either the garden, the trees, the fruit or his own presence in the garden.Mung_{December 10, 2014
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A quote from Dr. Dembski on the argument from evil that atheists continually use:
"Instead of presenting scientific evidence that shows atheism to be true (or probable), the neo-atheists moralize about how much better the world would be if only atheism were true. Far from demonstrating that God does not exist, the neo-atheists merely demonstrate how earnestly they desire that God not exist.8 The God of Christianity is, in their view, the worst thing that could befall reality. According to Richard Dawkins, for instance, the Judeo-Christian God “is arguably the most unpleasant character in all of fiction. Jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic-cleanser; a misogynistic homophobic racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”9 Dawkins’s obsession with the Christian God borders on the pathological. Yet, he underscores what has always been the main reason people reject God: they cannot believe that God is good. Eve, in the Garden of Eden, rejected God because she thought he had denied her some benefit that she should have, namely, the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. 10 Clearly, a God who denies creatures benefits that they think they deserve cannot be good. Indeed, a mark of our fallenness is that we fail to see the irony in thus faulting God. Should we not rather trust that the things God denies us are denied precisely for our benefit? Likewise, the neo-atheists find lots of faults with God, their list of denied benefits being much longer than Eve’s—no surprise here since they’ve had a lot longer to compile such a list!" William Dembski - pg. 10-11 - Finding a Good God in an evil World http://designinference.com/documents/2009.05.end_of_xty.pdf
,,,As to how dependent (faulty) theological reasoning is to Darwinian 'science', Dr. Nelson offers this insight
Methodological Naturalism: A Rule That No One Needs or Obeys - Paul Nelson - September 22, 2014 Excerpt: It is a little-remarked but nonetheless deeply significant irony that evolutionary biology is the most theologically entangled science going. Open a book like Jerry Coyne's Why Evolution is True (2009) or John Avise's Inside the Human Genome (2010), and the theology leaps off the page. A wise creator, say Coyne, Avise, and many other evolutionary biologists, would not have made this or that structure; therefore, the structure evolved by undirected processes. Coyne and Avise, like many other evolutionary theorists going back to Darwin himself, make numerous "God-wouldn't-have-done-it-that-way" arguments, thus predicating their arguments for the creative power of natural selection and random mutation on implicit theological assumptions about the character of God and what such an agent (if He existed) would or would not be likely to do.,,, ,,,with respect to one of the most famous texts in 20th-century biology, Theodosius Dobzhansky's essay "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution" (1973). Although its title is widely cited as an aphorism, the text of Dobzhansky's essay is rarely read. It is, in fact, a theological treatise. As Dilley (2013, p. 774) observes: "Strikingly, all seven of Dobzhansky's arguments hinge upon claims about God's nature, actions, purposes, or duties. In fact, without God-talk, the geneticist's arguments for evolution are logically invalid. In short, theology is essential to Dobzhansky's arguments.",, http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/09/methodological_1089971.html
bornagain77_{December 10, 2014
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Well, I guess Joe's response was quite clear. You are only deserving of help if you are blameless in the circumstances that led to you needing help. But that wouldn't work for the Christians here. Re Joe's position, I hope if he ever injures himself in an accident, that the ambulance driver doesn't feel the same way.5for_{December 10, 2014
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I asked Moose Dr:
I’m genuinely interested, though — how do you explain this to yourself? Why does a perfectly loving God consistently, with no exceptions, refuse to do a small kindness that we, despite our imperfections, wouldn’t hesitate to do?
Andre, Joe and Mung fumbled the question. Can anyone else help them out?keith s_{December 10, 2014
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keiths:
It’s almost like he’s… like he’s… not really there! (Or else kind of a jerk.)
Am I the only one to notice how keiths keeps attempting to make god into his own likeness?Mung_{December 10, 2014
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AVS:
God did not provide you with a medical system that is rather good at helping you, Moosey. It was the last 100 years of scientific breakthroughs that did that.
Those breakthroughs didn't have anything to do with materialism nor evolutionism. Go figure...Joe_{December 10, 2014
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All of us know that the decent thing to do, when someone is stranded on the toilet at one’s house, is to fetch them a roll of toilet paper.
That is incorrect. Their stupidity put them in that situation and it isn't up to anyone to help them with that. It is their responsibility. Why do atheists want to blame God every time they shirk their responsibility?Joe_{December 10, 2014
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He refuses to do even the simplest kindnesses for his creatures.
LoL! keith doesn't have a brain so he blames God.Joe_{December 10, 2014
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Cabal:
I suggest Axel is a provocateur or maybe just ill informed.
Mostly the latter.keith s_{December 10, 2014
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Axel said:
If mankind had had to rely on you, atheist scientists, we would still be waiting for you to discover quantum mechanics! You are a disgrace to the modern world.
Some names relevant wrt quantum physics are referenced here. I've always seen them as free thinkers not much into othodox religious beliefs: http://physics.about.com/od/quantumphysics/p/quantumphysics.htm. Richard Feynman is "further credited with coming up with the concept of quantum computing, which he spent several years exploring." I suggest Axel is a provocateur or maybe just ill informed.Cabal_{December 10, 2014
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Keith S How do I respond to your stupidity? O Yes..... Unguided evolution is the best explanation for the diversity of life!Andre_{December 10, 2014
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Andre, Someone fetching you a roll of toilet paper would impede your ability to choose good over evil? Why?keith s_{December 10, 2014
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The question is not can someone choose good over evil Keith S, the question is can I?Andre_{December 10, 2014
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Andre,
How do we choose good over evil if the genie is at our whim and command all the time?
Suppose you or I fetch a roll of toilet paper for some poor stranded person. Does that prevent them from choosing good over evil? If not, then why should it make any difference if God does so?keith s_{December 10, 2014
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Keith S How do we choose good over evil if the genie is at our whim and command all the time? You do know that most misery in the world is inflicted by humans because they choose to do it right?Andre_{December 10, 2014
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Moose Dr:
I have never watch Bruce Almighty, but I understand that the theme of the movie is that some guy thought he could run it all better than God himself could. Guess they modeled the movie after you, huh.
We're not talking about "running it all". We're talking about helping someone. All of us know that the decent thing to do, when someone is stranded on the toilet at one's house, is to fetch them a roll of toilet paper. It's basic human kindness and common courtesy. Given that your God never does it, the possibilities are: 1) he's not there; 2) he's a jerk; 3) he isn't powerful enough; or 4) he has some other reason for never, ever, poofing a roll of toilet paper into the hands of the needy. The best answer is obviously #1, followed by #2 and #3, but believers tend to make excuses for their God, and for that reason they like #4. But why? What reason makes sense? If the evidence points to God's absence, why not accept that God is absent? (It's essentially the same question that my "bomb" argument raises: If the evidence points to evolution being unguided, why not accept that evolution is unguided?)
I figure that I am developing their sense of personal responsibility by not wiping their little hineys any more. ‘Guess I’m a jerk, huh.
Who said anything about "wiping their little hineys", or phoning you up as adults? We're talking about God, who doesn't need to be phoned up, and who can magic up a roll with less effort than it takes you or me to raise an eyebrow. You'd certainly be a jerk if your kids were at your house, stranded on the toilet, and you refused to fetch a roll. And when you're visiting them in the future, they would certainly be jerks not to fetch a roll for their dear Moose Dr parent. I'm genuinely interested, though -- how do you explain this to yourself? Why does a perfectly loving God consistently, with no exceptions, refuse to do a small kindness that we, despite our imperfections, wouldn't hesitate to do?keith s_{December 9, 2014
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Keith S, "It’s almost like he’s… like he’s… not really there! (Or else kind of a jerk.)" I have never watch Bruce Almighty, but I understand that the theme of the movie is that some guy thought he could run it all better than God himself could. Guess they modeled the movie after you, huh. I am a parent. When my kids were really young, I'd get them a new roll of toilet paper. Now that they are in their middle childhood, I make sure there are spare rolls of toilet paper in the cupboard. When they grow up and move out, I'll be really teed off if one of them phones me up to complain that there's no toilet paper on the roll. I figure that I am developing their sense of personal responsibility by not wiping their little hineys any more. 'Guess I'm a jerk, huh.Moose Dr_{December 9, 2014
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Keith S Tut tut....... You just had to throw in the jerk part because there is always some element of truth in what we say.... Humans are funny things.... Can't fool somebody that thought exactly like you did for 34 years of his life..... Like I said; Been there done that got the T-Shirt. RegardsAndre_{December 9, 2014
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Um, Andre -- I go with choice (a) -- he's not really there.keith s_{December 9, 2014
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It’s almost like he’s… like he’s… not really there! (Or else kind of a jerk.)
And there it is! Keith's claim that unguided evolution is a trillion times better at explaining the diversity of life..... Because God is a jerk......(We usually call somebody a jerk when we feel they have hurt, offended or ignored us) So Keith S does not like Him because He is such a jerk and since God is such an a-hole Keith S might as well get back at Him by denying His existence...... Been there done that, got the t-shirt myself. Now you know why Keith S trolls forums and says the stupidest things! He's just angry at God for being such a jerk!Andre_{December 9, 2014
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Moose Dr:
You can find all sorts of other tragedies where God could have, but didn’t, intervene. So God sometimes intervenes, and sometimes doesn’t. I really don’t know His logic.
You and everyone else. He refuses to do even the simplest kindnesses for his creatures. It's almost like he's... like he's... not really there! (Or else kind of a jerk.)keith s_{December 9, 2014
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AVS And just to show you how false your statement is cancer is increasing so what medical breakthroughs? http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/03/worldwide-cancer-cases-soar-next-20-years No what we observe is true to the Christian worldview a fallen world accelerating in its decay...... 2 Corinthians 4:16 "Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day." Consistent with every single scientific find that we are losing information (decaying). The Bible said it first and scientific observation confirms it.! http://phys.org/news/2012-09-evolution-meant-simpler-complex.htmlAndre_{December 9, 2014
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AVS......
God did not provide you with a medical system that is rather good at helping you, Moosey. It was the last 100 years of scientific breakthroughs that did that.
LOL!!!!!!!!!! When we enter the world what do we have? NOTHING! When we leave the world what do we have? NOTHING! Everything inside this system is not yours its borrowed including medical breakthrough's! You don't own the time and you don't own the materials!Andre_{December 9, 2014
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God did not provide you with a medical system that is rather good at helping you, Moosey. It was the last 100 years of scientific breakthroughs that did that.AVS_{December 9, 2014
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