Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

L&FP, 70: Exploring cosmological fine tuning using the idea of a 3-D, universal printer and constructor (also, islands of function)

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Last time, we looked at how Kolmogorov Complexity can be used to quantify the information in functionally specific complex organisation, by using the formal idea of a 3-D universal printer and constructor, 3-DP/C:

. . . it is but a short step to imagine a universal constructor device which, fed a compact description in a suitable language, will construct and present the [obviously, finite] object. Let us call this the universal 3-D printer/constructor, 3-DP/C.

Thus, in principle, reduction of an organised entity to a description in a suitably compact language is formally equivalent in information terms to the object, once 3-DP/C is present as a conceptual entity. So, WLOG, reduction to compact description in a compact language d(E) is readily seen as identifying the information content of any given entity E.

For, d(E) is a program though it can simply be a functional organisational specification, as, causally in this logic-model world:

d(E) + 3-DP/C + n ==> E1, E2, . . . En.

Obviously, n is an auxiliary instruction setting the number of copies to be made . . . .

We thus have a formal framework to reduce any entity to a description d(E), which is informational and has as metric

I = length[d(E)],

where a chain of Y/N q’s will yield I in bits, on the Kolmogorov assumption of compactness. I use compact, to imply that we can get a good enough estimator of I by using something compact. We do not have to actually build a most compact language.

This can also be used to explore the idea of fine tuning, e.g. let us use Barnes; chart:

Barnes: “What if we tweaked just two of the fundamental constants? This figure shows what the universe would look like if the strength of the strong nuclear force (which holds atoms together) and the value of the fine-structure constant (which represents the strength of the electromagnetic force between elementary particles) were higher or lower than they are in this universe. The small, white sliver represents where life can use all the complexity of chemistry and the energy of stars. Within that region, the small “x” marks the spot where those constants are set in our own universe.” (HT: New Atlantis)

Now, let us start at X, conceived as a summary of the cosmology of our observed universe, as d(E) fed into the 3-DP/C, with E here being say a simulation of the cosmos and its history:

d(E) + 3-DP/C + n ==> E1, E2, . . . En. n here would be a population of runs assuming a random element.

Now, instead, feed d(E) into a noisy channel so we begin a random walk in the space of cosmologies,

d(E) –> lossy, noisy medium –> d*(E) + 3-DP/C + 1 ==> E*1

d*(E) –> LNM –> d**(E) + 3-DP/C + 1 ==> E**1

etc.

Here, we can readily see how we can construct a map of possible outcomes, much as Barnes did and illustrates. Though of course one can also explore border zones algebraically etc.

The obvious result is that we see how our observed cosmos sits at a fine tuned operating point for a cosmos that is viable for life. (This also extends to exploring islands of function in configuration spaces in general.)

We see here how islands of function can have fitness landscapes allowing local hill climbing, but of course the issue of loss of function and locking into a peak arise:

So, now, we can use the 3-DP/C formalism to draw out what is involved in the idea of fine tuning, including of course, how intensely informational such a pattern is.

John Leslie is thought provoking:

One striking thing about the fine tuning is that a force strength or a particle mass often appears to require accurate tuning for several reasons at once. Look at electromagnetism. Electromagnetism seems to require tuning for there to be any clear-cut distinction between matter and radiation; for stars to burn neither too fast nor too slowly for life’s requirements; for protons to be stable; for complex chemistry to be possible; for chemical changes not to be extremely sluggish; and for carbon synthesis inside stars (carbon being quite probably crucial to life). Universes all obeying the same fundamental laws could still differ in the strengths of their physical forces, as was explained earlier, and random variations in electromagnetism from universe to universe might then ensure that it took on any particular strength sooner or later. Yet how could they possibly account for the fact that the same one strength satisfied many potentially conflicting requirements, each of them a requirement for impressively accurate tuning?” [Our Place in the Cosmos, The Royal Institute of Philosophy, 1998 (courtesy Wayback Machine) Emphases added.]

AND:

“. . . the need for such explanations does not depend on any estimate of how many universes would be observer-permitting, out of the entire field of possible universes. Claiming that our universe is ‘fine tuned for observers’, we base our claim on how life’s evolution would apparently have been rendered utterly impossible by comparatively minor alterations in physical force strengths, elementary particle masses and so forth. There is no need for us to ask whether very great alterations in these affairs would have rendered it fully possible once more, let alone whether physical worlds conforming to very different laws could have been observer-permitting without being in any way fine tuned. Here it can be useful to think of a fly on a wall, surrounded by an empty region. A bullet hits the fly Two explanations suggest themselves. Perhaps many bullets are hitting the wall or perhaps a marksman fired the bullet. There is no need to ask whether distant areas of the wall, or other quite different walls, are covered with flies so that more or less any bullet striking there would have hit one. The important point is that the local area contains just the one fly.” [Emphasis his.]

This fly on the wall metaphor has been famous, and aptly captures the issue of locality of fine tuning.

A modern watch movement, an example of both functionally specific, complex information and irreducible complexity of well-matched core functional parts

Where, too, we see that fine tuning leading to islands of function is a broad phenomenon, the bits and pieces of a complex system need to fit and work together for the whole to work.

This of course, brings us full circle to Paley’s famous watch.

Paley, in his time, could describe the intricate nature of contrivance leading to an artifact, a system well adapted to the purpose of time keeping. But, he had not the means to quantify the information involved, that would have to wait for over a century until we first found the idea of surprise and reduction of uncertainty leading to negative log probability metrics and informational entropy. Where, too, Jaynes et al were able to follow Szilard et al and draw a connexion between informational and thermodynamic entropy. In effect, the entropy of a macro observable entity is the average wanting information to specify microstate, given a description on macro observable state.

Then came Kolmogorov, and we can therefore use the formalism of a 3-DP/C to understand information content, functionality based on information implicit in organisation, and islands of fine tuned function amidst seas of non function, thus blind search challenge.

Paley, in his Ch 2, had a further contribution that has been even more underestimated. He saw that the additionality of self-replication vastly increased the complex functionality to be explained. This means that origin of life is even more complex than many acknowledge, and that origin of sustainable, novel body plans is even more challenging.

Coming back to focus, fine tuning at cosmological scale, the Nobel equivalent prize holder, Sir Fred Hoyle, has some choice words:

[Sir Fred Hoyle, In a talk at Caltech c 1981 (nb. this longstanding UD post):] From 1953 onward, Willy Fowler and I have always been intrigued by the remarkable relation of the 7.65 MeV energy level in the nucleus of 12 C to the 7.12 MeV level in 16 O. If you wanted to produce carbon and oxygen in roughly equal quantities by stellar nucleosynthesis, these are the two levels you would have to fix, and your fixing would have to be just where these levels are actually found to be. Another put-up job? . . . I am inclined to think so. A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super intellect has “monkeyed” with the physics as well as the chemistry and biology, and there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. [F. Hoyle, Annual Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics, 20 (1982): 16.] . . .

also, in the same talk at Caltech:

The big problem in biology, as I see it, is to understand the origin of the information carried by the explicit structures of biomolecules. The issue isn’t so much the rather crude fact that a protein consists of a chain of amino acids linked together in a certain way, but that the explicit ordering of the amino acids endows the chain with remarkable properties, which other orderings wouldn’t give. The case of the enzymes is well known . . . If amino acids were linked at random, there would be a vast number of arrangements that would be useless in serving the puposes of a living cell. When you consider that a typical enzyme has a chain of perhaps 200 links and that there are 20 possibilities for each link,it’s easy to see that the number of useless arrangements is enormous, more than the number of atoms in all the galaxies visible in the largest telescopes. [ –> 20^200 = 1.6 * 10^260] This is for one enzyme, and there are upwards of 2000 of them, mainly serving very different purposes. So how did the situation get to where we find it to be? This is, as I see it, the biological problem – the information problem . . . . I was constantly plagued by the thought that the number of ways in which even a single enzyme could be wrongly constructed was greater than the number of all the atoms in the universe. So try as I would, I couldn’t convince myself that even the whole universe would be sufficient to find life by random processes – by what are called the blind forces of nature . . . . By far the simplest way to arrive at the correct sequences of amino acids in the enzymes would be by thought, not by random processes . . . . Now imagine yourself as a superintellect working through possibilities in polymer chemistry. Would you not be astonished that polymers based on the carbon atom turned out in your calculations to have the remarkable properties of the enzymes and other biomolecules? Would you not be bowled over in surprise to find that a living cell was a feasible construct? Would you not say to yourself, in whatever language supercalculating intellects use: Some supercalculating intellect must have designed the properties of the carbon atom, otherwise the chance of my finding such an atom through the blind forces of nature would be utterly minuscule. Of course you would, and if you were a sensible superintellect you would conclude that the carbon atom is a fix.

. . . and again:

I do not believe that any physicist who examined the evidence could fail to draw the inference that the laws of nuclear physics have been deliberately designed with regard to the [–> nuclear synthesis] consequences they produce within stars. [“The Universe: Past and Present Reflections.” Engineering and Science, November, 1981. pp. 8–12]>>

Food, for thought. END

Comments
We lack other universes to which we can compare our’s to. Right?
Another stupid comment! Shows a complete lack of understanding of fine tuned hypothesis. Then makes more stupid comments. Again, recommend asking questions since you understand so little. Aside: No one is denying there could be other universes but if there are, they have to be limited in number. Also, if there are some other universes, it in no way refutes the fine tuning conclusion.jerry
April 1, 2023
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Why answer the people denying the fine tuning?
We lack other universes to which we can compare our's to. Right? As such, we do not know if universes can have other constants or that changing one wouldn't change the other in a corresponding degree, etc. We simply do not have a good explanation at the moment. IOW, the observation that the universe is fine tuned, in that there was an actual tuner, is theory laden. It make assumptions, which apparently you are unaware of, or intentionally ignore, etc. Which is it? Or perhaps you lack self-reflection to the degree that you cannot comprehend anything happening below your level of consciousness? Is the transference of input from your senses to your consciousness an atomic operation? Are there no steps between that you're not consciously aware of? We do not experience sense impressions for what they really are - namely electrical crackles, right? So, we do not experience anything directly, even if it's sitting right in front of us. So much for our senes reflecting an atomic, infallible means of accessing the outside world to us directly.critical rationalist
April 1, 2023
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Querius I read it the first time (there's a dog-eared copy on my shelf along with the Origins) as a freshman biology major over 50 years ago. This was, of course, before Darwin became a metaphor for the anti-Christ and the singular cause of the holocaust in evangelical circles, Woke culture and every flavor of wrong thinking in between, all of which are eerily similar in their amazing intolerance. Long before the left and the right were obsessed with emptying library shelves of anything that doesn't accord with their "worldview."chuckdarwin
April 1, 2023
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Chuckdarwin @55,
Why would I resort to a chatbot when I have some of the world’s most renowned ID and Bible experts at my disposal right here on UD?
Easy. Willful ignorance. Just like you pretend that Charles Darwin's theory isn't racist in support of white supremacy, colonialism, and documented genocide. I bet you've never read his book, "The Descent of Man." -QQuerius
April 1, 2023
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Querius/44 Why would I resort to a chatbot when I have some of the world's most renowned ID and Bible experts at my disposal right here on UD? Once the ID crowd is disabused of the bogus claim that ID is nonsectarian, there is no difference between ID and creationism.......chuckdarwin
April 1, 2023
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including yours
Be specific and they can be discussed. I was specifically referring to the fine tuning which is so incredibly obvious. Are any of the specifics in my comment inane or stupid?jerry
April 1, 2023
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So let the ignorant make their uninformed remarks and do their inane speculation. They never provide anything of substance anyway.
This is a fair description of many comments here, including yours.Alan Fox
March 31, 2023
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The stupidity goes on. Why answer the people denying the fine tuning? The universe is fine tuned for anything meaningful. If several of the parameters were off by fantastically small amounts, there would be no stars, planets, higher elements, etc. Why such precision? Then there is the fine tuning of our solar system and Earth. Why? So let the ignorant make their uninformed remarks and do their inane speculation. They never provide anything of substance anyway.jerry
March 31, 2023
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Kairosfocus @47, Assuming that your familiar with the earth being in "the Goldilocks Zone" for life, (https://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/livingthings/microbes_goldilocks.html) are you also familiar with a similar Goldilocks Zone for discovery? https://www.amazon.com/Privileged-Planet-Cosmos-Designed-Discovery/dp/0895260654 -QQuerius
March 31, 2023
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CD at 42, Allow me to make a few changes to your post. Don’t let the Evolution crowd on this blog suggest that you are “confused.”relatd
March 31, 2023
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Kairosfocus @48,
Q, a forcing superlaw that sets dozens of parameters etc to fine tuned values would itself be fine tuned. Just, next level up.
Yes, exactly! So, if one would apply your logic to the multiverse, then it, as the mother of all universes, has this "superlaw" setting ability, even if it's by random chance. And random chance cannot exist outside of time. Thus, we would conclude that the mother of all universes must have a time component. For want of an image, I call the mother of all universes "the Cosmic Turtle," which lays its eggs as new universes. However, as you noted, the fine-tuned parameters in the Cosmic Turtle" must in turn be at a higher level, so we would conclude that it's turtles all the way up as well as elephants all the way down! :D -QQuerius
March 31, 2023
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Q, a forcing superlaw that sets dozens of parameters etc to fimne tuned values would itself be fine tuned. Just, next level up. KFkairosfocus
March 31, 2023
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PM1, the evidence is, the cosmos is fine tuned in ways that support cell based life. Separate evidence is, life is designed. Speculation on the incidence of life in the observed cosmos is both irrelevant and a case of heads I win, tails you lose. Life is presumed common, it musta evolved many times. Life is rare, that is somehow incompatible with design. In fact there are two worlds of evidence that point to design of a cosmos fitted for life and for the design of life. That prevails over heads I win, tails you lose. KFkairosfocus
March 31, 2023
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Kairosfocus @43,
Folks it would be amusing to see the studiously off focus push, but that is itself telling us something.
Yes, as usual. PyrrhoManiac1's observation that ". . . the likelihood of a universe in which the laws of physics enable life to emerge" adds the additional parameter that a finely tuned universe that's stable would require additional fine tuning for supporting life. But here's the rub. How are the fine-tuned parameters determined in the first place? Are they inevitable? If so, did they exist before space-time, mass-energy, gravity, and everything else came into existence and in what form? -QQuerius
March 31, 2023
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CD, I notice loaded language and perpetuation of an old slander long since adequately answered in the Weak Argument Correctives. The design inference on empirically tested signs is just that, an empirical inference. The force of that inference is obviously so strong that many objectors change focus, try for invidious association with Creationists [for, that is the intent] then refuse all correction. Meanwhile, the focus here is that taking a description d(E) that defines a cosmology, we can use a random walk to generate a pattern of cosmological simulations, thus arriving at high contingency and identifying cosmological fine tuning. Which is itself significant, but that significance -- this is now familiar -- goes where objectors are ever so intent not to go. Yet another backhanded admission of the balance on merits. KFkairosfocus
March 31, 2023
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Chuckdarwin @42,
Don’t let the ID crowd on this blog suggest that you are “confused” because you don’t see the distinction between ID and creationism. There is none.
Wrong as usual. The difference is easily verifiable. Try entering a question about the difference in ChatGPT. You might learn something. -QQuerius
March 31, 2023
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Folks it would be amusing to see the studiously off focus push, but that is itself telling us something. KFkairosfocus
March 31, 2023
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CR/29 Don't let the ID crowd on this blog suggest that you are "confused" because you don't see the distinction between ID and creationism. There is none. Don't waste anymore of your time trying to gauge the distinction, that is a fool's errand.......chuckdarwin
March 31, 2023
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PyhrroManiac1 @35,
Anyway, the likelihood of evolution is a completely different topic than the likelihood of a universe in which the laws of physics enable life to emerge.
Yes, I agree with the first part of your observation. However, regarding
. . . the likelihood of a universe in which the laws of physics enable life to emerge.
Apparently, some physicists began asking questions like, “Why is there an inverse square law and not an inverse cubed or power 2.01 . . . law?” as did one of my physics profs. Later, questions were asked about the values of the constants in our universe (or any other universe). This was followed by fascinating what-if questions about the effects of varying 19 independent constants, and the results were surprising and provocative. The universe seemed to be fine-tuned. There are three cogent responses: • God finely tuned the universe for it to be able to exist at all. • Invoking a version of the anthropic principle to a multiverse scenario. • Asserting that the 19 constants might actually collapse into fewer, perhaps as few as one. On further consideration, whether there are actually fewer than 19 independent constants is interesting but not relevant. Whether there's an envelope of values for the fundamental constants for life to exist (we're clueless about how life began, so we invoke the god-of-the-gaps, EMERGE, to cover for us) also takes into account factors such as the unusual property of water to expand rather than contract when it freezes. -QQuerius
March 31, 2023
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Critical Rationalist @29
Then what is ID, that creationism is not? why not just skip ID and go right to creationism?
Aha! And that’s precisely why you’re so confused. ID is significantly different than Creationism. So what you need to do is find a reasonably accurate definition for ID before being critical of it. -QQuerius
March 31, 2023
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"That does not seem like careful optimization to me." PM1, You're a speck on the giant butt of the universe and you think you know what is careful optimization is and what isn't? How do you know this for sure? Philosophy? Andrewasauber
March 31, 2023
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Whenever I see yet one more ID claim for (divine) fine tuning, I remember Lawrence Krauss’ quip that it is convenient that God created us with legs just long enough to reach the ground……..chuckdarwin
March 31, 2023
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@36
I’m just saying that life being extremely rare doesn’t really lead to universe not fine-tuned. Why would that be?
Suppose (for the sake of argument) that life is exceedingly rare in the universe. How is that compatible with fine-tuning? It seems weird to me to say that the universe is fine-tuned for something that occupies an Here's how I'm thinking about it -- and maybe I'm mistaken -- but here goes. The observable universe is about 93 billion light-years in diameter and has a total mass of about 1.5 × 10^53 kg. Whereas life as we know it exists on the crust of a small planet orbiting a yellow dwarf. It seems weird to me that the universe would be fine-tuned for something that takes up an infinitesimally tiny fraction of it. When someone says that a piano is finely tuned, or that a race-car is fine-tuned for racing, one thinks that every aspect of the artifact has been carefully optimized for that one feature. Compared to the universe as a whole, the ecoystems on this planet count for less than the skin of paint on the ball at the top of the Eiffel Tower counts for the whole city of Paris. That does not seem like careful optimization to me.PyrrhoManiac1
March 31, 2023
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PM1, I'm just saying that life being extremely rare doesn't really lead to universe not fine-tuned. Why would that be? That's just your own mental stretch, Andrewasauber
March 31, 2023
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So what? Beneficial mutations are rare, yet they can make hippopotmasuseses out of mudpits, right?
Of course not. What the hell are you trying to talk about? Anyway, the likelihood of evolution is a completely different topic than the likelihood of a universe in which the laws of physics enable life to emerge. Of course one could insist that life did not emerge naturally but required some intelligent intervention to get it off the ground. But if that's the view, then the "fine tuning" of the universe for life just doesn't matter. That is: one could think that life needed some intelligent intervention to get going, or one could think that the laws of physics allowed life to emerge just fine, and it's those laws that need to be explained. But quite a few people seem to maintain both beliefs, and I don't see why. It seems to me that if one has either, one doesn't need the other.PyrrhoManiac1
March 31, 2023
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"It strains credulity to say that the universe is fine-tuned for life if life is extremely rare." PM1, So what? Beneficial mutations are rare, yet they can make hippopotmasuseses out of mudpits, right? Andrewasauber
March 31, 2023
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@32
How do you know the universe IS tuneable? Where is the evidence for that assertion?
The idea that the universe is fine-tuned for life has always struck me as nonsense. For one thing, we don't know if there's life anywhere in the universe besides this planet. It strains credulity to say that the universe is fine-tuned for life if life is extremely rare. (For all we know, life might not exist anywhere else in the universe besides this planet.) For another, although it is true that life as we know it on this planet depends on fairly precise values and parameters to physical laws, we don't know what other kinds of life might be possible under different combinations of those values and parameters. We can model different universes, but those models can only tell us what is entailed by the values of the fundamental constants in those possible universes. (I don't think that life is even entailed by the laws of physics in this universe, so I can't see how a mathematical model of a different set of laws of physics could tell us whether life would exist in that universe.) Finally, we don't actually know that the laws of physics could have been different than they are, because we don't know anything about how the universe actually came to be. (And there are some recent cosmological models which suggest that the universe had no beginning in time at all.) In the case the universe, since we can observe exactly one of them, we cannot know anything about the likelihood of life coming about in any other conceivable universe, nor do we know if the universe really could have been otherwise than it is. Without that necessary background information, the idea that the universe was fine-tuned for life is absurd: the people who say this are claiming to have knowledge that it is not physically possible for anyone to ever have.PyrrhoManiac1
March 31, 2023
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Jerry: The difference with ID is that ID says an intelligence could have created life as we see it. Is that a theory? More importantly: how do you test that in a lab? What experiment can you do which takes that notion beyond a guess or a philosophical stance? ID observes the fine tuning of the universe How do you know the universe IS tuneable? Where is the evidence for that assertion?JVL
March 31, 2023
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That is an issue for those wanting it taught as an alternative to biology with an evolutionary content.
The evolution taught in the schools is also not a scientific theory. The difference with ID is that ID says an intelligence could have created life as we see it. There is no scientific theory that can explain how life as we see it could have happened. That's a huge difference. But remember, the universe needs explaining and the most coherent explanation is an entity with immense intelligence. So the intelligence is present when life shows up.
Then what is ID, that creationism is not? why not just skip ID and go right to creationism?
Again, you should just ask questions because your statements are nonsense. This is just another stupid assertion. The term "creationism" can mean many different things. ID does say there was one event of creation. That is the universe. But the typical person does not understand "creationism" to mean just that. So this is an apples and oranges comparison.
there would be virtually nothing upon which to comment
That is not true. But you are right that the pro ID people here are not interested in exploring ID or discussing it. They are more interested in religious ideas. However, their interest in religion does not change what ID is. That is what its objectors use to discredit ID. They have no basis for discrediting ID itself. The main rationale for the natural origin of life and the dramatic changes in life over time is that the alternative was creationism which everyone considered bogus. A really spurious use of logic. But one that works with most people because they don't really care. Witness the above reference to creationism by someone who cannot defend anything he is saying.jerry
March 31, 2023
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If the IDers “stop feeding the trolls, scroll past them, and focus on substantive perspectives and new information,” there would be virtually nothing upon which to comment……chuckdarwin
March 31, 2023
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