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Chart of North Atlantic Deep Ocean Temperatures--and CO2 in Cenozoic

The Trend is your Friend–Global Cooling

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In today’s Phys.Org, we find an article giving the latest results from Deep Ocean temperature measurements of the North Atlantic. These measurements feature a new method of obtaining both temperature and CO2 levels.

What is the long term trend telling us about our future? What about the dramatic shifts in deep ocean temperatures? Were they man-made?

Just look at it and then you’ll know just how hysterical global warming–now known as “climate change,” really is.

A picture is, indeed, worth a thousand words.

Comments
Jerry at 72, I find it hard to trust experts about any of this since so much money is involved. I sincerely doubt that those diverting say corn into ethanol production were too stupid to not notice. The ONLY reason was to create scarcity and drive up corn prices. As far as oil, there are oil derricks sitting in storage right now. And the White House reported that oil companies are sitting on domestic oil leases and not producing. Why? Profits - just profits. Wall Street knows how much money is sitting in private bank accounts right now and they want to suck it out of our wallets. Sadly - for them - they are dealing with people who will do without. Nuclear power is advertised as such a good alternative but it produces radioactive waste. And there is no urgency about finding a safe, permanent (around 100,000 years) storage site. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/04/deep-isolation-aims-to-bury-nuclear-waste-using-boreholes.htmlrelatd
July 13, 2022
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Going through old comments and here is one from 13 years ago on climate change.
Wheeler said that wind power now accounts for about 1% of energy in the country and if a lot of investment was put into it, it could get up to maybe 2-3 % in 20 years. One problem with wind is that the high wind areas are not where the people are and the loss of energy in transmission is about 50% He said that solar accounts for about 1/4 of 1% of our energy currently and with large investment may bake up to 2% in 20 years. So these renewable energy sources account for a little more than 1% of our energy and with massive investment may reach 5% in 20 years. The implications of this is that there is only one place to go in the future and that is fossil fuels and the best hope for a relatively short term change is coal that is clean or sequestered. That will take about 10 years. Nuclear power is an obvious answer but he had the caveat that we must solve the terrorism problem first before going full speed on nuclear. We now have much safer and more efficient nuclear technology. The other short term solution is natural gas and he said mass amounts are stored untaped in the shale deposits in the Rocky Mountain area. He also said that the use of ethanol from food products is a big mistake as it is inefficient and displaces food production. It may be possible to get a significant amount of energy from non food carbon waste. So global warming or not the near term future for energy has to be carbon based and it is time someone talked sense about it.
https://uncommondescent.com/off-topic/oopsie-daisy-nsidc-misplaces-500000-sq-kilometers-of-arctic-ice/#comment-305868jerry
July 13, 2022
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Lying for your own good - if it’s true, why lie?
Climate exaggeration just won't end The Atlantic now tells us that "heat waves hot enough to cook human flesh are already happening this month" No Made-up (which is why there is no link)
https://twitter.com/BjornLomborg/status/1546093133859115008jerry
July 10, 2022
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It’s all well and good to discuss actual climate as the OP does but what is/was happening with the climate was never the issue. The ability to exercise power through fear, guilt, shame or actual bribes is the issue. Here is the latest by VDH on the ‘Great Reset” and its objectives. Till we understand who is pulling the strings we as usual talk past one another with sometimes interesting but irrelevant ideas. https://americanmind.org/salvo/the-great-regression/ We can all say that something is misleading or an actual lie, but what will everyone do when the powers we elect, say do this or else? Aside: a huge irony is that the internet has picked up on either myself or the other commenters here and posted an ad to support Greenpeace on my webpage.jerry
July 10, 2022
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Vb at 67, A propaganda article for nuclear power. First, in the United States, billions of dollars have already been spent in finding the best place and the best material to use to store nuclear waste. Then there is the control of technology which can only be released when it can make the most money. Tesla announced a million mile battery that was ready for production in June 2020. https://electrek.co/2020/06/08/tesla-new-million-mile-battery-ready-production-catl/ January 2022. Germany shuts down half of its nuclear power plants. https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/correction-germany-nuclear-shutdown-story-82051054 June 2022. Solid-state batteries are being tested now for use in cars later this year. https://electrek.co/2022/06/06/solid-power-begins-solid-state-battery-pilot-before-testing-with-ford-and-bmw-in-late-2022/ Salt can be liquefied on-site at solar farms and the heat stored so power can be available 24 hours a day. https://www.man-es.com/energy-storage/campaigns/mosasrelatd
July 9, 2022
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0 for 41!! We are swimming in a sea of lies. https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2019/09/20/nolte-climate-experts-are-0-41-with-their-doomsday-predictions/ Vividvividbleau
July 9, 2022
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The disastrous effect of green policies on the environment https://quillette.com/2019/02/27/why-renewables-cant-save-the-planet/ Vividvividbleau
July 9, 2022
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Vb at 65, What a scam. 'Brown warned that "entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000," as a contemporary Associated Press report put it.'relatd
July 9, 2022
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The climate change advocates follow one false prediction after another. It’s a scam and about money and power one could say it’s a religious cult. But hey these people believe a man can be a woman, if you believe that you will believe anything. https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/environment/new-yorks-global-warming-doomsday-clock-underscores-decades-shifting Vividvividbleau
July 9, 2022
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From one of the reports of the Global Warming Policy Foundation
In his annual State of the Climate report, Ole Humlum, emeritus professor at the University of Oslo, examined detailed patterns in temperature changes in the atmosphere and oceans together with trends in climate impacts. Many of these show no significant trends and suggest that poorly understood natural cycles are involved. And while the report finds gentle warming, there is no evidence of dramatic changes, with snow cover stable, sea ice levels recovering, and no change in storm activity. Professor Humlum said: “A year ago, I warned that there was great risk in using computer modelling and immature science to make extraordinary claims. The empirical observations I have reviewed show very gentle warming and no evidence of a climate crisis.” GWPF director, Dr Benny Peiser said: “It’s extraordinary that anyone should think there is a climate crisis. Year after year our annual assessment of climate trends document just how little has been changing in the last 30 years. The habitual climate alarmism is mainly driven by scientists’ computer modelling rather than observational evidence.”
This is a detailed report. It should be an obvious target for climate change activists to debunk.jerry
July 9, 2022
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Here is a website I just found. It’s called
The Global Warming Policy Foundation A non-partisan think tank and a registered educational charity that focuses on climate and energy policy
https://www.thegwpf.org/ Some topics on home page
Ten things everyone should know about climate models UK weather has become, if anything, less extreme, annual review shows Empirical observations show no sign of ‘climate crisis Sir Iain Duncan Smith calls for honest and open debate on Net Zero Polar bears continued to thrive in 2021
Obviously counter to the perceived wisdom. The OP is presented as also counter to the prevailing narrative. But there are several other issues besides the truth of what the current climate is doing. Some are what will changes do to help and others are how much if at all are these changes desirable.jerry
July 8, 2022
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Relatd: That was social commentary, son. A direct condemnation of The Mass Media and its recent psychotic behavior. I do not do podcasts. Okay. Just checking. I would have given it a listen.JVL
July 8, 2022
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JVL at 60, That was social commentary, son. A direct condemnation of The Mass Media and its recent psychotic behavior. I do not do podcasts.relatd
July 8, 2022
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Relatd: You should listen to episode 105 of my podcast. I will listen to it if you provide a link. I tried a search and couldn't quite get there for some reason.JVL
July 8, 2022
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Marfin at 57, You should listen to episode 105 of my podcast. It's titled Mass Psychosis in the Media. Previous episodes include, The Death of Actual Journalism (ep. 98) and Death! The Latest Media Product (ep. 95).relatd
July 8, 2022
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ET at 55, What? Over-tilling? Do you know the government of the United States has paid farmers Billions of dollars in "farm subsidies"? That means farmers are paid to grow nothing. Nothing. That way, if there's a drought in one part of the country, there is more land available elsewhere to grow crops. Animal agriculture? What's that? Oxen pulling plows? People need meat not "plant based" anything. Overuse of pesticides? According to who? Look up what farmers are supposed to do every year. If they don't crops will be lost to insects. Trash? If human beings would pick up their garbage when they go to the beach, that would help.relatd
July 8, 2022
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Its worth listening to Ep 150 Ivor Cummins interview with Mattias Desmet on the psychology of mass psychosis of groups.Marfin
July 8, 2022
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All you Climate change doom mongers read Bjorn Lomborg`s 7 global warming myth`s or his work on how to spend billions to improve the planet , medicine, education , water, health , these are the things we need to invest in to save lives and improve the lives of the poorest billion people on the planet not solar panels and electric cars. But I suppose Al Gore would not become mega rich and the IPCC guys would be out of a job if we actually spent our money wisely in really helping people.Marfin
July 7, 2022
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Global Climate Change Warming isn't an issue. Fossil fuels are still a solution, and not a problem. Over-tilling, animal agriculture, the overuse of pesticides and trash, are the big 4 that need to change if we are to give any hope to the future generations.ET
July 7, 2022
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I have yet to see any convincing data that shows exactly how climate 'change' is caused by human C02 increases..... Since we all know that humans are only the cause of just under .04% of all atmospheric C02 then why is the huge clamor about human caused climate change enraging to the ill-informed of actual science? Why to the ill-informed pray before the continued debunked IPCC climate models? Is it due to agenda...and not real science? seems that way.Trumper
July 7, 2022
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The latest news from We're All Going to Die !!! I don't buy it. https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/eu-decision-natural-gas-threaten-climate-progress-86381175relatd
July 7, 2022
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Chuckdarwin--@27: The authors are saying: "It was worse in the past, so, watch out, it can get that bad again." Apparently they haven't looked at their own chart/graph. We're cooling off. CO2 levels are low. Henry Gee wrote, In Search of Deep Time. He said that evolutionary biologists, really paleontologists, go out on digs and they find "what they're looking for." The authors "found what they were looking for." The "deep ocean," not the sea floor, was once as hot as the Mediterranean. Yet there is nothing in the chart that gives any indication whatsoever that we're heading in that direction. Instead, their fear comes from what "man-made global warming," i.e., CO2 levels, might do. From my memory, the CO2 levels have gone up by around 60 ppm in 60 years. The "deep ocean" was as hot as the Mediterranean 50 million years ago when the CO2 levels were over 2,000. That means that if CO2 keeps going up for the next 2,000 years at the same rate, then we might be in trouble. I'm not alarmed, though.PaV
July 7, 2022
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JHolo -- #48: You've quoted from the National Ocean Service website. Is this the gospel? And, even if it is, are we understanding it correctly? That is, are they explaining it correctly? First of all, as in all of science, there are question marks. Information is either incomplete or in contradiction with expectations. For example, this from a Geochemistry, Geophysics, Geosystems research article:
To understand both Arctic Ocean temperature change and geologic evolution, we collected temperature measurements at 103 sites. These measurements tell us how temperature increases with depth below the seafloor and can be used to understand both ocean temperature change and regional geology. Analysis of our data shows that at depths of 300–900 m below sea level, the Arctic Ocean has been warming steadily for perhaps several decades—nearly twice as deep as previous studies suggest. At ocean depths greater than 1,000 m, our analysis also reveals surprisingly high temperature increases with depth in the seafloor. The cause of these significant increases is unclear.
In the same paper, discussing the same problem:
Analysis of ocean bottom temperatures from 40 years of CTD and XBT measurements on the U.S. Beaufort Margin suggests that bottom waters have been warming as much as 0.005–0.02°C/year at shallow and intermediate water depths (300–500 mbsl) and that warming of 0.003°C/year might occur at greater depths (e.g., Phrampus et al., 2014). Constant warming over the past 40 years will extend to a depth of ~25 m in the subbottom. The magnitude of these BWT warming rates, 0.005–0.02°C/year, can result in significant (>17–66%) underestimation of basal heat flow if rates are sustained for >40 years as previous studies suggests (Figure 2c) (Phrampus et al., 2014).
That which follows below throws into question the last part of your quote above: (From a NASA website):
The oceans are mostly composed of warm salty water near the surface over cold, less salty water in the ocean depths. These two regions don't mix except in certain special areas. The ocean currents, the movement of the ocean in the surface layer, are driven mostly by the wind. In certain areas near the polar oceans, the colder surface water also gets saltier due to evaporation or sea ice formation. In these regions, the surface water becomes dense enough to sink to the ocean depths. This pumping of surface water into the deep ocean forces the deep water ["deep water," NOT seafloor] to move horizontally until it can find an area on the world where it can rise back to the surface and close the current loop. This usually occurs in the equatorial ocean, mostly in the Pacific and Indian Oceans. This very large, slow current is called the thermohaline circulation because it is caused by temperature and salinity (haline) variations.
The convection current in discussion here is not connected to ocean bottom--sea floor. It's one layer of water moving on top of another: a convection current. Lastly, from aStanford lecture:
Although the general abyssal circulation patterns are fairly well known, it is difficult to quantify the rates of the various flows. Abyssal circulation is generally quite slow and variable on short time scales. The calculation of the rate of formation of abyssal water is also fraught with uncertainty. Probably the most promising means of assigning the time dimension to oceanic processes is through the study of the distribution of radioactive chemical tracers. Using 14C distribution in deep water indicated that the replacement times for Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Ocean deep waters (depths >1500 m) are 275, 250, and 510 years respectively.
Is what's happening in our atmosphere having any effect at all on the ocean below? There are apparently centuries of lag time in this surface water convection current. Now, for the third time: JHolo, do you see the downward trend in bottom ocean bottom temperatures and atmospheric CO2 levels? Is there really cause for alarm? Should we starve poor countries and keep them in poverty while tax dollars go to incredibly rich individuals? Are things really that bad? There are all these questions, unknowns, and conflicts between expectations and actual measurements. The chart above gives us a look at these results. I draw straight-forward conclusions.PaV
July 7, 2022
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Andrew at 49, The Mass Media needs to constantly promote The Daily Disaster, with more disasters waiting in line behind it.relatd
July 7, 2022
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"So saying that over and over does not increase comprehension." It increases belief. If mass media switched to perpetually hyping potential catastrophes associated with Slinky accidents, guess what would happen. Andrewasauber
July 7, 2022
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PaV, you keep barking up the wrong tree. The temperature of the earth’s core has an immeasurably small relative impact on ocean temperature.
In contrast, the Earth gets hotter and hotter at depth primarily because the energy of radioactive decay is leaking outwards from the core of the planet. While this geothermal energy is transferred to ocean water along the seafloor, the effect is so small that it's immeasurable by direct means. Why? The actual amount of heat generated per square meter of Earth is quite small, especially compared to the amount of heat necessary to warm the ocean. Geothermal energy emanating from the Earth averages only about one tenth of a watt per square meter. At that rate of heat flow (without taking ocean currents into account), it would take well over a year just to heat the bottom meter of the ocean by one degree Centigrade. However, the ocean is not standing still. Complex deep ocean currents driven by density variations in temperature and salinity are constantly replacing the bottom layer of ocean water with colder water.
JHolo
July 7, 2022
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FH at 44, "make money" not "make sense." So go right out and buy that electric car - before climate whatever kills you. Buy it now even though there are few charging stations much less a lot of installed solar panels. Buy it! Now! Give us your money. (You would not believe how much I lost with Bitcoin.) And keep buying! Nuclear with Thorium. There's a book referring to World War II. No, not nuclear.relatd
July 7, 2022
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PaV at 45, The average person has no idea what scientists are saying. NO idea. Saying "the CO2 cycle is 4%" means absolutely nothing. Or, here are some wind tunnel measurements for a wing with a 45 degree sweep. Does ANYONE expect ANYONE to actually comprehend any of that? So saying that over and over does not increase comprehension. But it does help to confuse people so you can scare them into buying things. It definitely works for that.relatd
July 7, 2022
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Once again, I remind readers and commentators that the title of the thread is about "trends." Distinct correlation between temperatures at the bottom of the ocean and CO2 levels. And both are "trending" downward. So, what exactly are we afraid of? Man-made proportion of the CO2 cycle is 4%.PaV
July 7, 2022
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Relatd A lot of things make sense anyway. Renewable energy rather than burning fossil fuel, electric cars and trucks, especially if that electricity is from renewable sources. Even reintroducing nuclear, especially looking to thorium. KF agrees, I know.Fred Hickson
July 7, 2022
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