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Swatting Down ID

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There an interesting piece in The American Scientist by Pat Shipman on how best to swat down ID. It’s interesting not because its arguments against ID or on behalf of evolution are strong, but because of the psychology it portrays: panic, damage control, and denial (the denial being that there might be anything fundamentally amiss with conventional evolutionary theory). As you read it, think of the cigarette companies 50 years ago attempting to swat down claims that cigarette smoking is dangerous to your health. Shipman is a company man to the core, representing vested interests that have everything to lose.

Being Stalked by Intelligent Design
Scientists must stop ignoring Intelligent Design—religious prejudice disguised as intellectual freedom
By Pat Shipman

American Scientist [for full article go here]

. . . ID is an insidious attempt by a religious caucus to impose its views on the whole country. The avowed aim of ID advocates—to undermine science and replace it with their personal religious convictions—amounts to a form of prejudice that is both poisonous and horribly frightening. Inevitably, young people will suffer most. As Francisco Ayala wrote in “From the President” (July-August 2004), science training will be a fundamental necessity in the technological world of the future.

As scientists, we must stop ignoring the ID movement. It won’t go away. Each of us must learn to avoid jargon in order to communicate better with the public. Every scientist should become a mentor; share your experience of the wonder and beauty of science! Finally, critically, we must expose Intelligent Design for what it really is: religious prejudice masked as intellectual freedom.

Do not miss the irony of this last sentence. To determine who here exhibits religious prejudice and who here champions intellectual freedom, ask yourself who here is limiting the debate and shutting down discussion of the relative merits of ID and evolutionary theory.

Comments
I have a question that I was hoping someone could help me with: Are there any intelligent design theorists who don't find evidence for design in natural diversity ? Specifically, could anyone point me toward anyone that is developing design inference methods, but, using those methods, doesn't find evidence for design in things like the flagella or what not ? It seems that much of the misrepresentation of ID in the media is done by reporters that conclude that design inference researchers necessarily conclude that diversity was designed. It seems that there are two sticking points to this debate. 1) A debate about methods for design inference. 2) A debate about whether the methods, when employed correctly, actually spit out design. Thus, I am interested in hearing about other design theorists that may employ different methods than Dr. Dembski, and, with these methods, don't find design in the bacterial flagellum. All the best, tauttautologydna
October 6, 2005
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MWC I tried to find the Robert L. Numbers quote about ID not being creationism. Supposedly it appeared in a March 14, 2002 WaPo (Washington Post) article by an author named Ostling. A copy of the article and a link to the original is here: http://www.arn.org/docs2/news/apohioschoolboarddebate031802.htm However, the link to the WaPo original doesn't work and querying the WaPo archives doesn't turn up the article. So I don't know what's going on.DaveScot
October 6, 2005
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Warning: Wikipedia rant Wikipedia is absolutely untrustworthy in anything that can biased by liberal political ideology - the vaunted Neutral Point of View (NPOV) which is one of like only two rules you're actually expected to obey isn't followed. Once in a while I try to return articles to NPOV. For example, the other day I was reading about DeLay's indictment, his stepping down from Majority Leader, and I wanted to know exactly what that meant. So I looked up Wiki's entry on "House Majority Leader". There I found a nice paragraph on what a majority leader does, a list of all house majority leaders and their term of office, and a couple of sentences on DeLay's stepping down. The DeLay appendage violated NPOV big time. Not a single other HML's individual history was discussed. DeLay was singled out for negative treatment. I deleted it the DeLay comments. So far, the deleted stuff is still gone.DaveScot
October 6, 2005
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wmmalo, It's all about what is true. From my perspective (assuming a creator God), if it is true (as in corresponds with reality), in the end it will prevail. If it is not true, in the end it will be shown to be false. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but as I understand, it puts forth a method of detecting intelligence (specification) based on the conclusion that something more than the current methods of naturalistic science (also called materialistism) is necessary to account for what we see. It's not religion in that ID does not attempt to say anything about the nature of this "designer". Instead, it is a way to make sense of the effects of its design. Religion is associated with origins, etc. ID doesn't go there, but instead says that what we currently observe has discernible design.MWC
October 6, 2005
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MWC Is ID on "God's" side? Is ID about "God"? The argument insisting ID is 'science' and not 'religion' is a bit fuzzy. Please clarify. Forum discussion should reinforce the 'scientific' theoretical value of ID while avoiding religiously drawn ‘conclusions’, unless of course, this is all about religion usurping scientific ‘influence’.wmmalo
October 6, 2005
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Hello Bill, you are in the latest edition of new scientist -nice picture -under a special report call 'Enemy at the Gates' Apparently your aim is to destroy Science!!Well I never!WormHerder
October 6, 2005
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Apologies for typo (somewhat Freudian) S/B isn't.Alan Fox
October 6, 2005
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[i]To determine who here exhibits religious prejudice and who here champions intellectual freedom, ask yourself who here is limiting the debate and shutting down discussion of the relative merits of ID and evolutionary theory.[/i] Would the issue of who edits posts and who doesn't be relevant to who is committed to honest debate and who idn't?Alan Fox
October 6, 2005
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" ID is an insidious attempt by a religious caucus to impose its views on the whole country. The avowed aim of ID advocates—to undermine science [Atheism, secular humanism,etc]and replace it with their personal religious convictions—amounts to a form of prejudice that is both poisonous and horribly frightening " So "ID" is to Christianity As, Atheism/ secular humanism is to Evolution ? I've heard that schools [or organizations] that teach or promote "secular humanism" get tax exemptions like churches and other religious institutes [why?]. Since most if not all secular humanistic schools or organizations teach/promote, belive, practice "Evolution". Does it mean that "Evolution" per-say is funded / back boned by their own "religious" institutes ?. My point being the "other-side" is always quick to shout the famous line "first amendment " and "separation of church and state". So where does this leave the Evolutionary Camp/us ?.Charliecrs
October 6, 2005
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Blech. This discussion is pointless. Unless ID is, in principle, scientific, Darwinism is unscientific, being unfalsifiable in principle - after all, the logical negation of the claim "this event is due to non-telic processes" is "this event is due to telic processes." Creationism be damned; we should stick to the logic.jaredl
October 6, 2005
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wmmalo, I'm not sure God is on anyone's side, so to speak. The greater question is whether ID is on God's side.MWC
October 6, 2005
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Does ID have "God" in its corner?wmmalo
October 6, 2005
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"[ID] doesn't deserve any attention," Bruce Alberts, NAS President, April 2005 "As scientists, we must stop ignoring the ID movement." Pat Shipman, October 2005 I see progress!scordova
October 6, 2005
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The ‘science’ supporting ID is thin at best, but I’m sure, given enough time, it will gel into a substantiated ‘theory’. The behavior of the scientific community to question and resist new theory is expected. All ‘new’ ideas initially meet a great degree of skepticism and opposition. It is the strength of the concept that will determine its merit and validity. Evolutionists struggle to obtain ‘conclusive’ evidence to support their theory. There will be no ‘solution’ for evolution, no missing link, no ooze, no beginning and no end. That isn’t the importance of their ‘exploration’; the interest and investigation continues. Design Theory must survive the same rigors of research and resistance. ID must clearly define its hypothesis and demonstrate it seeks a ‘scientific’ goal. The scientific community has not eagerly accepted ID as a ‘scientific’ investigation. That doesn’t mean more clarification won’t shift the attitude and move ID beyond the alienation it experiences today. The way I understand the debate, the issue is the ‘implications’ of Evolution and respectively Intelligent Design. It appears the impasse is best defined as a “public access” conundrum. Is education ready for ID? Is ID ready for education? ID is ‘the’ alternate ‘scientific’ view to Darwin’s “Origin…” theory. Evolution has taken its punches; it’s still standing. ID is just entering the ring. It will be a fight, more than likely a fair one, unless of course, ID has “God” in its corner.wmmalo
October 6, 2005
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Baffled scientists stumble across a remarkably well preserved transitional form in the Florida Everglades. The ancestor of the alligython was found in the Florida Everglades last week and can be seen here: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/news/archive/2005/10/05/national/a124031D68.DTL&o=0 "This", said one observer, "proves everything and nothing all at once."lpadron
October 6, 2005
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MWC, Here are two Ronald Numbers sources: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/uow-idt021204.php http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?program=CRSC&command=view&id=1329lpadron
October 6, 2005
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One more thing--check the talk pages for these articles before you make changes. They typically involve discussion about what should be on the page. You can really see the anti-ID/anti-religious bias come out there.MWC
October 6, 2005
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Sorry to make this about Wikipedia, Bill, but I think it might help. Go to this page for more information about editing. Be very careful because there are a number of anti-religous folks over there. Although it claims to be based on consensus, because it is actually based on who can wield the power, minority views receive subtle, and sometimes not so subtle, mockery. See what I mean by going to these pages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design_movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teach_the_ControversyMWC
October 6, 2005
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So I'm not the only one who has noticed the negative skew Wikidpedia puts on their ID proponent treatments (or religious leaders, for that matter). I didn't realize there was anything that could be done about that. Please let us know the process, MWC. I'd like to be a part of changing their attitudes over there.Bombadill
October 6, 2005
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Speaking of religious prejudice, I've been attempting to make headway over at wikipedia on their intelligent design, creationism, naturalism, etc., pages. It is quite ridiculous how all mention of ID merely slaps the creationist label on and then subtley dismisses it while attempting to explain it. I have been asked to provide a source where Ronald Numbers explains why he doesn't see ID as creationism, and I can't find it. Any ideas?MWC
October 6, 2005
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Fear is a motivating factor on many different levels, and throughout society.Bob Davis
October 6, 2005
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Dear Bill can you let me know how moderation of the comments we post is run here ? thanks,WormHerder
October 6, 2005
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Pat Shipman, a paleontologist at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine in "Discover" magazine September, 1986... "What the new skull does, in a single stroke, is overturn all previous notions of early hominid evolution...The things we thought we understood reasonably well we don't." Sounds like Patty is now claiming to understand ID advocates well. :-)DaveScot
October 6, 2005
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Hello Uncommon descent guys, Greetings from across the pond. my first post here! Please excuse my stream of concousness type rambelings. Apart from the typical entrenching that is occurring between some evolutionist and the ID movement-understandable when you consider the investment people have put into that narrative. I would like to know how any one who belives in a closed purely naturalistic world is able to define what beauty and wonder are ? Surely they are just a particular set of neurons firing in a particular way ? If so why try and induce it in others? 'religious prejudice masked as intellectual freedom' what a great way to describe evolution!?WormHerder
October 6, 2005
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