A Darwin descendant is now a Catholic apologist?

Sorry about that repetition, Mr Harrington. Could you delete #17 for me, please. I think, 'meat-mind' is a more apt epithet for them than 'meat-head'. Axel

Philip, it sounds, from the end of that video about the evidence for God, as if those research physicists and mathematicians in the UK have picked up on what I've been saying for some years now - either that, or they've arrived at it independently; namely, that light or whatever agent 'works' light in our world, must know each individual, his location, if he is stationary or if he is moving at a constant speed, the speed he is traveling at. Dr Baumann - I believe that was his name - spoke of light as thinking, being intelligent, some such descriptions. And in order to do all that God would have to know pretty much everything else about us and everything else, period, wouldn't He? Unassailable empirically-proven evidence of theism and our God's omniscience and omnipotence; possibly, a spiritual light-physical light continuum. Yet again, our meat-mind friends, the atheists, arrogantly presuming to sit in the chair of science's Moses, the 'law-givers'(!), prove to be the menials, the hewers of wood and the drawers of water, the baggage handlers, parasitically battening on the paradigms they affect to despise, revealed by God to his believers. Axel

Philip, it sounds, from the end of that video about the evidence for God, as if those research physicists and mathematicians in the UK have picked up on what I've been saying for some years now - either that, or they've arrived at it independently; namely, that light or whatever agent 'works' light in our world, must know each individual, his location, if he is stationary or if he is moving at a constant speed, the speed he is traveling at. Dr Baumann - I believe that was his name - spoke of light as thinking, being intelligent, some such descriptions. And in order to do all that God would have to know pretty much everything else about us and everything else, period, wouldn't He? Unassailable empirically-proven evidence of theism and our God's omniscience and omnipotence; possibly, a spiritual light-physical light continuum. Yet again, the atheists, arrogantly presuming to sit in the chair of science's Moses, the 'law-givers'(!), prove to be the menials, the hewers of wood and the drawers of water, the baggage handlers, parasitically battening on the paradigms they affect to despise, revealed by God to his believers. Axel

Well, Lucifer would be riled, as well, even though he knows God exists even more certainly than they do, KF. As James remarked in his epistle, '... the devils also believe, and tremble.' But they don't, cannot, change their mind. I wonder how many of our meat-head friends are too far gone to change theirs. Axel

G2:

How can we know something ‘absolutely’ ? Can we ‘know’ something less than ‘absolutely’ ?

1 --> Absolute truth can be seen as the truth, the whole relevant truth, and nothing but the material truth on a given matter. Undiluted, untainted, complete relative to need to know to decide on a matter. (No misleading half-truths need apply and no baits of 98% truth and 2% barbed hook.) 2 --> For key and highly relevant examples of knowable absolute, self evident truths, try Royce's proposition, Error exists, and first principles of right reason. Yardstick and plumbline truths. (Cf. here on. Yes, I know this sort of thing sticks cross-ways in the gullet like a gorge for many raised on po-mo platitudes, but it is time to say that this emperor does not have on the fancy robes of his imagination.) 3 --> Knowledge is generally used in two senses, a stronger and a weaker form. Warranted, credibly true belief can be warranted to undeniable certainty in some few cases (as just linked), but that makes pretty thin gruel for life. 4 --> In practice, with science, court rooms, history etc as exemplars, we much more commonly use knowledge in the sense of well warranted, credible but correctable- in- principle [= provisional] truth claims. And even for constructs that strictly claim only so-far empirical reliability as explanations, not truth, such as scientific theories. 5 --> That is where degrees of warrant and degrees of responsibility come in. The most relevant degree is moral certainty, where one would be irresponsible in a matter of grave consequences to act as though a claim were false or so uncertain that one wishes not to act on it. 6 --> In addition, there is such a thing as irresponsible, inexcusable ignorance, where there are things one SHOULD know or should acknowledge, but has chosen to duck or dismiss epistemic responsibilities on through willful neglect of duties of care. (Cf. the UD Weak Argument Correctives for several cases that too many objectors to design thought exemplify. [BTW, onlookers, it seems this is the most commonly viewed UD page, and is thus probably a major root of the sort of animus towards UD and its contributors that we too often see.]) KF kairosfocus

Fair enough. Now Im off to eat some babies. Graham2

Well Graham2 since the violation of Leggett's inequalities have pretty much completely blown a materialistic interpretation of reality completely out of the water, I think you can safely file Blackmore's materialistic fantasies in the fiction section of your library, right next to Origin. :) But then again if materialism is true you really are not free to do anything are you? :) Well in that case do whatever you mindlessly do as a Darwinbot to the book i.e. GIGO,,. bornagain77

BA77: I have just finished Susan Blackmores book Dying To Live in which she makes a pretty good case for a materialistic explanation of NDE's. Graham2

The young lady engaged in ... a sceptical assessment of what can and can’t be known absolutely What does this mean ? How can we know something 'absolutely' ? Can we 'know' something less than 'absolutely' ? Graham2

Of note: Evidence For Heaven - Afterlife - Near Death Experiences - video (notes in description) https://vimeo.com/20420223 bornagain77

JW, I've studied the patterns of Near Death Experiences trying to discern which religion had the most extremely positive heavenly experiences that we hear about from time to time in the news,,,

Near Death Experience – The Tunnel, The Light, The Life Review – video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4200200/

And in keeping with Christianity's primary claim of the necessity of Christ to be a mediator between us and the infinite perfection and justice of God, I found that foreign, non-Judeo-Christian cultures had a extreme rarity of encounters with the 'Being of Light' or even with having a positive overall experience in the first place.,,, Here are a few studies from my collection of notes that reflect the disturbing pattern I found outside of Judeo-Christian cultures,,,

Near-Death Experiences Among Survivors of the 1976 Tangshan Earthquake (Chinese) Excerpt: Our subjects reported NDE phemenological items not mentioned, or rarely mentioned in NDE's reported from other countries: sensations of the world being exterminated or ceasing to exist, a sense of weightlessness, a feeling of being pulled or squeezed, ambivalence about death, a feeling of being a different person, or a different kind of person and unusual scents. The predominant phemenological features in our series were feeling estranged from the body as if it belonged to someone else, unusually vivid thoughts, loss of emotions, unusual bodily sensations, life seeming like a dream, a feeling of dying,,, These are not the same phemenological features most commonly found by researchers in other countries. Greyson (1983) reported the most common phemenological feature of American NDE's to be a feeling of peace, joy, time stopping, experiencing an unearthly realm of existence, a feeling of cosmic unity, and a out of body experience. http://www.newdualism.org/nde-papers/Zhi-ying/Zhi-ying-Journal%20of%20Near-Death%20Studies_1992-11-39-48.pdf Several studies (Pasricha, 1986, Schorer, 1985-86) & Kellehear, 1993) Murphy 1999,2001) have indicated that the phenomenologies of NDEs is culture-bound. (Of Note: Judeo-Christian Culture NDEs are by far the most pleasant "phenomena") http://www.shaktitechnology.com/thaindestxt.htm Near-Death Experiences in Thailand: Excerpt: The Light seems to be absent in Thai NDEs. So is the profound positive affect found in so many Western NDEs. The most common affect in our collection is negative. Unlike the negative affect in so many Western NDEs (cf. Greyson & Bush, 1992), that found in Thai NDEs (in all but case #11) has two recognizable causes. The first is fear of `going'. The second is horror and fear of hell. It is worth noting that although half of our collection include seeing hell (cases 2,6,7,9,10) and being forced to witness horrific tortures, not one includes the NDEer having been subjected to these torments themselves. (Murphy 99) http://www.shaktitechnology.com/thaindes.htm

Whereas within Judeo-Christian cultures, JW, although I did not tally up thousands of NDE's and crunch the numbers so as to figure out the exact percentages for which denomination of Christianity had the highest percentage of positive NDE's, I did notice that, alongside Christians, even people who would not be described as particularly religious in a Judeo-Christian culture were also having extremely positive NDE's. Perhaps the most famous of which is neurosurgeon Dr. Eben Alexander, who was basically a scientific atheist who went to church merely for social sake on Easter and Christmas, and he did not really believe in the core tenants of Christianity, (I referenced Dr. Alexander's latest article in post 3 of this thread). But the main thing I want to draw out of my studies, JW, is that Catholics, as far as I know, are having just as many extremely positive NDE's as the other Christian denominations in America are. Here is an example of a man who had a positive NDE with 'only' Catholic upbringing in his childhood:

Mickey Robinson - Near Death Experience testimony - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4045544

There are many other nuances I could draw out of these NDE studies JW, but the main point being is that it is not nearly as neat, clean, and tidy, between the various Christian denominations in America, so as to have one Christian denomination claiming superiority over another denomination.

Romans 12:5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. John Michael Talbot & Michael Card - One Faith http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgYguIi7fMI

bornagain77

So she left the Darwin worship industry and entered the Pope worship industry. Not much of an improvement. JWTruthInLove

Sorry about the omission of words and the generally hapless syntax and confusion. I must check my texts, not scan them carelessly. Axel

Theistic Christian belief: the virtue that dare not speak its name. What a strange age we live in! Though I suppose it's just that I grew up just after WWII, at a time when, for all the ostensible feebleness of the Christian faith at the time, those prayers and readings at morning assemblies in our schools, in fact, imbued in us (many, like myself, quite irreverent at that stage of our lives), the historic Christian values of this country, the UK, which we took completely for granted. The country has reverted to an adolescent mindset, but it doesn't work like that. You either go forward or you sink, so that attribution would be flattering in the extreme. Even Harry Enfield's caricature of an adolecent, Kevin, realised there were things worth getting worked up about - even if he didn't quite know what they were. (See on YouTube) With blissful insouciance, the Etonian Cameron is now leading us further and further into the Brave New World, instead of, jointly with the alumni of the other public schools, proving one of the last redoubts of Christianity, however ambiguous the latters' mindset in economic matters. Axel

I wouldn't necessarily take the disavowal by eminent atheists converts of their conversion to Christianity at face value, Philip. The famous atheist polemicist of yester-year, Here is a quote of concerning A J Ayer's reaction to the NDE he experienced: 'In 1988, shortly before his death, Ayer wrote an article entitled, "What I saw when I was dead",[19] describing an unusual near-death experience. Of the experience, Ayer first said that it "slightly weakened my conviction that my genuine death ... will be the end of me, though I continue to hope that it will be."[20] However, a few days later he revised this, saying "what I should have said is that my experiences have weakened, not my belief that there is no life after death, but my inflexible attitude towards that belief".[21] In 2001 Dr. Jeremy George, the attending physician, claimed that Ayer had confided to him: "I saw a Divine Being. I'm afraid I'm going to have to revise all my books and opinions." Ayer's son Nick, however, said that he had never mentioned this to him though he did find his father's words to be extraordinary, and said he had long felt there was something possibly suspect about his father's version of his near death experience.' It was reported that when he was wheeled back into the ward after his operation, he called out to his patients, 'You're all mad! You're all mad!' On a more serious note, someone related that towards the end of Ayer's life, he became increasing close to a Dominican-priest friend. As another eminent atheist, J B S Haldane, put it, in relation to biologists and teleology : "Teleology is like a mistress to a biologist: he cannot live without her but he's unwilling to be seen with her in public." I expect it was the same with Flew re Christianity, or at least, theism. Axel

corrected link: Falling Plates (the grace of propitiation) – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGlx11BxF24 bornagain77

I have to say that as with the angels,,,

Luke 15:10 In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

,,, I'm happy whenever anyone turns to God. But I'm more happy whenever anyone turns to God through Christ.,, The reason why I'm more happy whenever anyone turns to God through Christ, than whenever anyone just assents to the truthfulness of a generic notion of God, is perhaps best reflected in my conflicting emotions upon learning that Anthony Flew had converted to Theism from Atheism, but that he did not specifically embrace Christianity in his conversion from Atheism,,

"I now believe that the universe was brought into existence by an infinite intelligence. I believe that the universe's intricate laws manifest what scientists have called the Mind of God. I believe that life and reproduction originate in a divine Source. Why do I believe this, given that I expounded and defended atheism for more than a half century? The short answer is this: this is the world picture, as I see it, that has emerged from modern science." Anthony Flew - world's leading intellectual atheist for most of his adult life until a few years shortly before his death The Case for a Creator - Lee Strobel (Nov. 25, 2012) - video http://www.saddleback.com/mc/m/ee32d/

Now, I was very happy to see Anthony Flew turn from atheism to theism but I was surprised to find that, although he could see the necessity of God (infinite intelligence) to explain why the universe and life came to be, he could not then readily grasp his own personal need for Christ as a atoning sacrifice before almighty God for his sins. For me, it should just be 'plain as day' obvious to anyone who realizes that Almighty God created the universe by the power of his Word that imperfect humans cannot dwell in the perfect presence of Almighty God unless propitiation for imperfection is made.

Pascal's Anthropological Argument - (Christianity is the best explanation for the human condition) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyrPpCrcmnA Falling Plates (the grace of propitiation) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfEBfLhKktQ William Lane Craig Q&A: What Is Hell? Is Hell Compatible with a Loving God? - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CjSy9CWEeU

Verse, Quote, and music:

1 John 2:1-2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. The Easter Question - Eben Alexander, M.D. - March 2013 Excerpt: More than ever since my near death experience, I consider myself a Christian -,,, Now, I can tell you that if someone had asked me, in the days before my NDE, what I thought of this (Easter) story, I would have said that it was lovely. But it remained just that -- a story. To say that the physical body of a man who had been brutally tortured and killed could simply get up and return to the world a few days later is to contradict every fact we know about the universe. It wasn't simply an unscientific idea. It was a downright anti-scientific one. But it is an idea that I now believe. Not in a lip-service way. Not in a dress-up-it's-Easter kind of way. I believe it with all my heart, and all my soul.,, We are, really and truly, made in God's image. But most of the time we are sadly unaware of this fact. We are unconscious both of our intimate kinship with God, and of His constant presence with us. On the level of our everyday consciousness, this is a world of separation -- one where people and objects move about, occasionally interacting with each other, but where essentially we are always alone. But this cold dead world of separate objects is an illusion. It's not the world we actually live in.,,, ,,He (God) is right here with each of us right now, seeing what we see, suffering what we suffer... and hoping desperately that we will keep our hope and faith in Him. Because that hope and faith will be triumphant. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eben-alexander-md/the-easter-question_b_2979741.html "In Christ Alone" / scenes from "The Passion of the Christ" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDPKdylIxVM

bornagain77

All I have to say about this is.... Is she single? :) wallstreeter43

Still waiting for Skatje Myers to see the light. sagebrush gardener