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A just-so story about the origin of religious beliefs

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Culture
Human evolution
Intelligent Design
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This one is about stones:

By 500,000 years ago, Homo had mastered the skill of shaping stone, bone, hides, horns, and wood into dozens of tool types. Some of these tools were so symmetrical and aesthetically pleasing that some scientists speculate toolmaking took on a ritual aspect that connected Homo artisans with their traditions and community. These ritualistic behaviors may have evolved, hundreds of thousands of years later, into the rituals we see in religions.

Agustín Fuentes, “How Did Belief Evolve?” at Sapiens

Some of us would be more impressed if the authors of this type of work attributed their own beliefs to these types of sources.

How about this: Belief that there is no design in nature comes from spending a lot of time reading boring useless papers and sitting in boring useless meetings, Eventually, homo academicus evolved to believe that all nature is like that.

There’s that’s a good enough thesis. Let’s publish it. But first we need to find a journal that is not run by homo academicus himself. Nah. Let’s do a Sokal hoax on this stuff instead. Any ideas?

See also: If naturalism can explain religion, why does it get so many basic facts wrong?

Evolutionary conundrum: is religion a useful, useless, or harmful adaptation?

and

Imagine a world of religions that naturalism might indeed be able to explain

Comments
JVL:
What do YOU mean by “new body plan” then?
Exactly what the experts say. As I said, perhaps you should take some biology and anatomy classes. Do you really think that a knuckle-walker and upright biped have the same body plan? Really?ET
March 6, 2020
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@110 JVL
I agree, it is a slippery issue.
Absolutely.
But the inability to interbreed with other species is a pretty common and strong indication so I’ll start with that.
I have 0 problem with it. But please explain why did you choose that definition and not a different one.Truthfreedom
March 6, 2020
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Au contraire JVL, I, and every other normal human being, automatically KNOW what species belongs to what group when we see it. It is Darwinists themselves, as the reference I highlighted made clear, who have no clue how to solve the 'species problem' . Nor, as I highlighted in post 76, will Darwinists ever solve 'the species problem', and that, in and of itself, falsifies the claim from Darwinists that their theory is a hard science rather than a pseudoscience based on smoke and mirrors.
As should be needless to say, the inability for a supposedly scientific theory, a supposedly scientific theory that seeks to explain the “Origin of Species” in the first place, to clearly define what a species actually is is a clear indication that that supposedly scientific theory cannot possibly be the proper ‘scientific’ explanation for the “Origin of Species” in the first place! https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/a-just-so-story-about-the-origin-of-religious-beliefs/#comment-694218
bornagain77
March 6, 2020
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I'm content with Mayr's definition of species for the purposes of this conversation: groups of actually or potentially interbreeding natural populations, which are reproductively isolated from other such groupsJVL
March 6, 2020
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ET, 108: That doesn’t follow. Perhaps you should take some biology and anatomy classes. What do YOU mean by "new body plan" then?JVL
March 6, 2020
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Truthfreedom, 107: Which one you ‘choose’ and why? I agree, it is a slippery issue. But the inability to interbreed with other species is a pretty common and strong indication so I'll start with that. And the new finches meet that criteria.JVL
March 6, 2020
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JVL:
I think I did (and there were hundreds of other published works); you think I didn’t.
You didn't. That much is obvious to anyone who reads what you linked to. Perhaps you should just go to an evo echo chamber. You would be very welcome there with your bluffs and inability to follow along.ET
March 6, 2020
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JVL:
So that means most quadrupeds are NOT “brand new species”?
That doesn't follow. Perhaps you should take some biology and anatomy classes.ET
March 6, 2020
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@103 JVL:
It would be easier if you guys agreed on what you want.
No, it would be easier if 'evolutionary scientists' (cough cough) would agree on their 'science'. 29 definitions of 'species', JVL. Which one you 'choose' and why? Truthfreedom
March 6, 2020
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Asauber, 104: So JVL appeals to Wikipedia for his worldview? No offense, JVL, but that’s truly pathetic. Truthfreedom linked to a Wikipedia article, not me. ET says a "brand new species" means it has a new body plan; do you agree? What about the inability to breed with existing species? The article I linked to says the new species meets that criteria.JVL
March 6, 2020
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BA77, 102: I’ll go get my popcorn! before JVL once and for all tells us exactly what the term species means for a Darwinists ???? This ought to be VERY entertaining! ???? If you don't know what it is then how will you decide if I've given an example of a new one? ET says a "brand new species" means it has a new body plan. Do you agree? The article I linked to described the new species as being unable to breed with existing species, that's a pretty strong indication is it not?JVL
March 6, 2020
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"What part of the Wikipedia article did the new species of finches NOT meet?" So JVL appeals to Wikipedia for his worldview? No offense, JVL, but that's truly pathetic. Andrewasauber
March 6, 2020
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Truthfreedom, 101: What part of the Wikipedia article did the new species of finches NOT meet? ET says a "brand new species" means it has to have a new body plan. Do you agree? It would be easier if you guys agreed on what you want.JVL
March 6, 2020
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Oh goody, JVL is going to solve the 'species problem':
What is a species? The most important concept in all of biology is a complete mystery – July 16, 2019 Excerpt: Enough of species? This is only the tip of a deep and confusing iceberg. There is absolutely no agreement among biologists about how we should understand the species. One 2006 article on the subject listed 26 separate definitions of species, all with their advocates and detractors. Even this list is incomplete. The mystery surrounding species is well-known in biology, and commonly referred to as “the species problem”. Frustration with the idea of a species goes back at least as far as Darwin.,,, some contemporary biologists and philosophers of biology have,,, suggested that biology would be much better off if it didn’t think about life in terms of species at all.,,, https://theconversation.com/what-is-a-species-the-most-important-concept-in-all-of-biology-is-a-complete-mystery-119200
I'll go get my popcorn! before JVL once and for all tells us exactly what the term species means for a Darwinists :) This ought to be VERY entertaining! :)bornagain77
March 6, 2020
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@97 HVL
You want me to provide a definition...
No, I do not 'want' it. Science demands it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species
...and then give an example of a “brand new” one coming into existence? What definition makes sense to you?
Again, it is not 'my' opinion. It is what
makes logical sense/ does not contradict itself. Truthfreedom
March 6, 2020
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ET, 94: New body plan So that means most quadrupeds are NOT "brand new species"? Most insects are NOT "brand new species"? Most birds are NOT "brand new species"? Do chimps and humans have different body plans? How about tigers and leopards? Do plants count?JVL
March 6, 2020
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ET, 96: To this day we don’t know of a mechanism capable of producing the diversity of life starting from some unknown populations of prokaryotes. No one is even working on the problem. Jerad disagrees but cannot find anything to support his disagreement. I think I did (and there were hundreds of other published works); you think I didn't. Nothing more to say really. Best let it drop.JVL
March 6, 2020
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@95 ET:
Vague.
Yes, vagueness is the anthithesis of science.Truthfreedom
March 6, 2020
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93, Truthfreedom: First you need a definition of ‘species’. You want me to provide a definition and then give an example of a "brand new" one coming into existence? What definition makes sense to you? How about: the inability to breed with existing species? The new species matches that criteria. From the article:
The birds had a different song from G. fortis, as well as different beak size and shape, and these are what the finches use to attract mates. Reproductively, the new species was completely isolated, and had to mate within its own kind to survive.
JVL
March 6, 2020
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To this day we don’t know of a mechanism capable of producing the diversity of life starting from some unknown populations of prokaryotes. No one is even working on the problem. Jerad disagrees but cannot find anything to support his disagreement.ET
March 6, 2020
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JVL:
A topic that is being researched! Something that scientists are working on.
Vague and useless. Like all of your comments.ET
March 6, 2020
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JVL:
How much different does a new species have to be for you to consider it a “brand new species”?
New body planET
March 6, 2020
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@88 JVL
How much different do you want a ‘brand new species’ to be exactly?
First you need a definition of 'species'.Truthfreedom
March 6, 2020
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ET, 86: Our knowledge of cause-and-effect relationships says it was intelligently designed. in 74 above Truthfreedom said: No scientific ‘knows’ if there is a designer or not. Maybe you should argue with him about there being a designer or not. I'll stay out of that!JVL
March 6, 2020
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ET, 84: Earth to JVL- a finch evolving into a finch is NOT an example of producing a brand new species. It’s just more of the same. How much different does a new species have to be for you to consider it a "brand new species"?JVL
March 6, 2020
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ET, 82: What is a topic of ongoing research? A topic that is being researched! Something that scientists are working on.JVL
March 6, 2020
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Asauber, 80: So JVL is just another Evolutionist here to promote his worldview, not here to have a serious conversation about evolution. I was answering the questions that were posed to me. What would you like me to say or do instead?JVL
March 6, 2020
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BA77, 79: Perhaps, to save himself from embarrassing himself, JVL should have read past the attention grabbing headline of his ‘easily found’ example? In what should be needless to say, two ‘species’ of finches interbreeding is NOT proof for a brand new species arising from an old one. You asked for a new species, that's what I found. How much different do you want a 'brand new species' to be exactly?JVL
March 6, 2020
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F/B: BTW on cultural marxism or critical theory, so called. KFkairosfocus
March 6, 2020
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JVL:
But it doesn’t mean it was designed then either.
Our knowledge of cause-and-effect relationships says it was intelligently designed.ET
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