A new XVIVO animation — extracellular RNA (xRNA) as a newly discovered communication and control mechanism

_{kairosfocus
March 17, 2013

Intelligent Design

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Intelligent Design}

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Thanks to the indefatigable BA77, we have the new (March 1, 2013) XVIVO animation on xRNA:

Notice, the recurrent cybernetic themes and discussions.

Also, am I the only one who sees a space-ships and planets metaphor there?

Thoughts welcome. END

Comments

ATS: Here is lifepsy's blog: BIOTA CURVE http://biota-curve.blogspot.com/ "is all life conscious?" No, but,,, Is the Soul Immortal? (J.P. Moreland) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7nqB7SH-7s&feature=player_detailpage#t=411sbornagain77_{March 22, 2013
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BA77, thanks again for breaking that down for me. Several questions, that in mind; 1. lifepsy, how do i get a hold of him? 2. is all life conscious? and if so, where does genetic entropy fall into that, given that consciousness is not subject to it, and given that the genome should no degrade if the environment is stable? thanks again!Aspire to Solomon_{March 21, 2013
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ATS:
Non-Random and Targeted Mutations (Epigentics to the level of modifying DNA) – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTChu5vX1VI
Though in technical language, it's pretty clear that he was saying that mutations are 'targeted' to deal with environmental stress and that the 'non-random' changes to the genome can be inherited (selected) since they increase fitness.,,, He was not saying that the environment is the 'source' of the genetic variation but merely that the stress from the environment 'triggered' targeted, 'non-random', mutations to occur in the genome at specific locations within the genome.,, I do not fully understand in what context they were using the term 'genetic repair mechanism' in the paper referenced in the video, but I agree with you that 'genetic repair mechanism' is a very anti-Darwinian fact that should, in a overall view of things, result in 'a stable unchanging genome'. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. If you have more questions, I suggest that you ask UD commentator 'lifepsy' as this is really pretty much his neck of the woods and I, like you, am pretty much a novice in this area. as to 'does not consciousness itself defy entropy?' Yes:
Quantum Zeno effect Excerpt: The quantum Zeno effect is,,, an unstable particle, if observed continuously, will never decay. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/tonights-feature-presentation-epigenetics-the-next-evolutionary-cliff/#comment-445840
bornagain77_{March 21, 2013
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so that is what my questions are based off ofAspire to Solomon_{March 20, 2013
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Correction; I watched the video you linked called; Non-Random and Targeted Mutations (Epigentics to the level of modifying DNA)Aspire to Solomon_{March 20, 2013
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BA77; I watched the video, and have some questions; 1. I couldn't tell if he was suggesting that that the underlying genetic code changes according to environmental demands or not, and wether or not these changes can be inherited. 2. Also wondering if he was suggesting that adaptations to environmental changes is the source of genetic variation. 3. Also had two questions regarding the genetic repair mechanisms; A. "Repair" to what standard? a code that it is strictly inherited, or a code best suited for the environment at that particular time? B. Also wondering how these genetic repair mechanism do not result in, if there is a stable environment, a stable unchanging genome. Further more, does not consciousness itself defy entropy? Thanks, look forward to feedback!Aspire to Solomon_{March 20, 2013
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BA77: There's various levels to this enigma, as you point out, but the one that most struck me was how we find ourselves in the position of looking at RNA telling DNA what to do, rather than the other way around. It's a kind of 'paradigm shift' of sorts. Future "transcriptome" studies should be interesting.PaV_{March 18, 2013
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related note:
Skin cells reveal DNA's genetic mosaic - Nov. 18, 2012 Excerpt: The longstanding belief has been that our cells have the same DNA sequence and this blueprint governs the body's functions. The Yale team's research challenges this dogma.,,, While observing that the genome of iPS cells closely resembles the genome of skin cells from which they originated, the team could identify several deletions or duplications involving thousands of base pairs of DNA. The team then performed additional experiments to understand the origin of those differences, and showed that at least half of them pre-existed in small fractions of skin cells. These differences were revealed in iPS cells because each iPS line is derived from one, or very few, skin cells. Vaccarino said these iPS lines could act as a magnifying glass to see the mosaic of genomic differences in the body's cells. "In the skin, this mosaicism is extensive and at least 30 percent of skin cells harbor different deletion or duplication of DNA, each found in a small percentage of cells," said Vaccarino. "The observation of somatic mosaicism has far-reaching consequences for genetic analyses, which currently use only blood samples. When we look at the blood DNA, it's not exactly reflecting the DNA of other tissues such as the brain. There could be mutations that we're missing." http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-11/yu-scr111512.php Somatic copy number mosaicism in human skin revealed by induced pluripotent stem cells - November 18, 2012 http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature11629.html
bornagain77_{March 18, 2013
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PaV, the falsification of the 'dogma' goes deeper though,,
Non-Random and Targeted Mutations (Epigentics to the level of modifying DNA) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTChu5vX1VI
Another little known fact, a fact that is also very antagonistic to the genetic reductionism model of neo-Darwinism, is that, besides the non-Random and targeted mutations to DNA, even our thoughts and feelings are now found to 'epigenetically' control the gene expression of our bodies:
Genie In Your Genes - video http://www.genieinyourgenes.com/ggtrailer.html main website excerpt: There are over 100 genes in your body that are activated by your thoughts, feelings and experiences http://www.genieinyourgenes.com/ Upgrade Your Brain Excerpt: The Research; In his book The Genie in Your Genes (Elite Books, 2009), researcher Dawson Church, PhD, explains the relationship between thought and belief patterns and the expression of healing- or disease-related genes. “Your body reads your mind,” Church says. “Science is discovering that while we may have a fixed set of genes in our chromosomes, which of those genes is active has a great deal to do with our subjective experiences, and how we process them.” One recent study conducted at Ohio University demonstrates vividly the effect of mental stress on healing. Researchers gave married couples small suction blisters on their skin, after which they were instructed to discuss either a neutral topic or a topic of dispute for half an hour. Researchers then monitored the production of three wound-repair proteins in the subjects’ bodies for the next several weeks, and found that the blisters healed 40 percent slower in those who’d had especially sarcastic, argumentative conversations than those who’d had neutral ones. http://experiencelife.com/article/upgrade-your-brain/ Genie In Your Genes - Book Book review: First of all, if you are a newcomer to Dawson Church's writing, you need to know that his facts are unimpeachable - they were stringently peer-reviewed before publication. What is more, when Church makes categorical statements, he provides research to corroborate them. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1604150114?ie=UTF8&tag=eliboo-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1600700225 Anxiety May Shorten Your Cell Life - July 12, 2012 Excerpt: These studies had the advantage of large data sets involving thousands of participants. If the correlations remain robust in similar studies, it would indicate that mental states and lifestyle choices can produce epigenetic effects on our genes. http://crev.info/2012/07/anxiety-may-shorten-your-cell-life/
Of related note to mental states having a pronounced epigenetic effect on genes (which is completely contrary to the materialistic presupposition of Darwinism), it turns out that having the positive 'mental state of love' has a tremendous impact on health:
ABC News - The Science Behind the Healing Power of Love - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t1p-PwGgE4 Social isolation and its health implications January 2012 Excerpt: Studies show that social isolation and/or loneliness predict morbidity and mortality from cancer, cardiovascular disease, and a host of other diseases. In fact, the body perceives loneliness as a threat. Research from the University of California suggests that loneliness or lack of social support could triple the odds of being diagnosed with a heart condition. Redford Williams and his colleagues at Duke University directed a study in 1992 on heart patients and their relationships. They discovered that 50% of patients with heart disease who did not have a spouse or someone to confide in died within five years, while only 17% of those who did have a confidante died in the same time period.12 http://www.how-to-be-healthy.org/social-isolation-and-its-health-implications/
Of course from a Theistic perspective this tangible effect of love is to be expected, whereas from a materialistic perspective, well to put it mildly, from a materialistic perspective it is counter-intuitive that the 'healing power of love' could have any effect: Verse and music:
1 Corinthians 13:1-8 If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.,,, For King & Country "The Proof Of Your Love" - Live Music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr9YVD05x8M
bornagain77_{March 18, 2013
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PaV, its pretty close to the chicken and egg, DNA-protein, dilemma at the origin of life,,, as well as ATP-enzyme dilemma,,,
Evolutionist Has Another Honest Moment as “Thorny Questions Remain” - Cornelius Hunter - July 2012 Excerpt: It's a chicken and egg question. Scientists are in disagreement over what came first -- replication, or metabolism. But there is a third part to the equation -- and that is energy. … You need enzymes to make ATP and you need ATP to make enzymes. The question is: where did energy come from before either of these two things existed? http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2012/07/evolutionist-has-another-honest-moment.html At the 6:00 minute mark of the following video, Chris Ashcraft, PhD in molecular biology, gives us a small glimpse of just how immense this 'chicken and egg' problem of ATP is for neo-Darwinists; Evolution vs ATP Synthase - Molecular Machine - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4012706
i.e. DNA makes RNA but RNA tells DNA how to make RNA,,, and arround and around we go,, :)bornagain77_{March 18, 2013
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BA77: What this video presentation certainly emphasizes is that the "central dogma of biology" is inside, out. That is, the "dogma"---wow! that'a religious sounding word---is that DNA produces RNA produces proteins = life. What we're now seeing in much of the experimental results that have recently been coming out is that it is RNA that is in charge of "life", and that RNA "uses" DNA for its own purposes. If this is indeed true, then the Darwinists will have to explain how the DNA-directing ability of RNA came about. (IOW, when DNA is 'transcribed', it transcribes RNA, which then begins to use the 'coding' portion (what, 4%) of the DNA in its job of building life, caring for life, and making sure life continues to be reproduced and adaptive.) We're quickly reaching mind-boggling complexity, a complexity that "random searches" simply cannot discover.PaV_{March 18, 2013
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Mung???
To look at the experience of someone else and think that they were somehow closer to death than you are right now is just a denial of your mortality. Wishful thinking.
,,,and we can thus discount their NDE testimonies as genuine because we are all having Near Death Experiences right now but we are in denial of our own mortality???bornagain77_{March 18, 2013
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BA77, excellent information buddy, especially the video on NDE’s.
We all live every single moment of our life near death. Every single experience we have is a "near death" experience. To look at the experience of someone else and think that they were somehow closer to death than you are right now is just a denial of your mortality. Wishful thinking.Mung_{March 17, 2013
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Hello BA77, hope all as well! I've been busy lately but I would still like to hear an epic thrashing of genetic determinism :DAspire to Solomon_{March 17, 2013
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BA77, excellent information buddy, especially the video on NDE's. There are many good veridical NDE's out there that its just a matter of time before the medical community embraces the evidence for them, but as usual the materialists will always try to find a way to explain them in naturalistic ways no matter how rediculous their explanations are.wallstreeter43_{March 17, 2013
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Another interesting thing to point out about RNA's is that they have recently, from ENCODE research, 'prompted a redefinition of the concept of a gene',,,
Landscape of transcription in human cells – Sept. 6, 2012 Excerpt: Here we report evidence that three-quarters of the human genome is capable of being transcribed, as well as observations about the range and levels of expression, localization, processing fates, regulatory regions and modifications of almost all currently annotated and thousands of previously unannotated RNAs. These observations, taken together, prompt a redefinition of the concept of a gene. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v489/n7414/full/nature11233.html Time to Redefine the Concept of a Gene? - Sept. 10, 2012 Excerpt: As detailed in my second post on alternative splicing, there is one human gene that codes for 576 different proteins, and there is one fruit fly gene that codes for 38,016 different proteins! While the fact that a single gene can code for so many proteins is truly astounding, we didn’t really know how prevalent alternative splicing is. Are there only a few genes that participate in it, or do most genes engage in it? The ENCODE data presented in reference 2 indicates that at least 75% of all genes participate in alternative splicing. They also indicate that the number of different proteins each gene makes varies significantly, with most genes producing somewhere between 2 and 25. Based on these results, it seems clear that the RNA transcripts are the real carriers of genetic information. This is why some members of the ENCODE team are arguing that an RNA transcript, not a gene, should be considered the fundamental unit of inheritance. http://networkedblogs.com/BYdo8
And what is interesting in the redefining of the RNA as the 'fundamental unit of inheritance', instead of the gene, is that microRNA's are 'tearing apart' the evolutionary tree of life:
Phylogeny: Rewriting evolution - Tiny molecules called microRNAs are tearing apart traditional ideas about the animal family tree. - Elie Dolgin - 27 June 2012 Excerpt: “I've looked at thousands of microRNA genes, and I can't find a single example that would support the traditional tree,” he says. "...they give a totally different tree from what everyone else wants.” (Phylogeny: Rewriting evolution, Nature 486,460–462, 28 June 2012) (molecular palaeobiologist - Kevin Peterson) Mark Springer, (a molecular phylogeneticist working in DNA states),,, “There have to be other explanations,” he says. Peterson and his team are now going back to mammalian genomes to investigate why DNA and microRNAs give such different evolutionary trajectories. “What we know at this stage is that we do have a very serious incongruence,” says Davide Pisani, a phylogeneticist at the National University of Ireland in Maynooth, who is collaborating on the project. “It looks like either the mammal microRNAs evolved in a totally different way or the traditional topology is wrong. http://www.nature.com/news/phylogeny-rewriting-evolution-1.10885 pdf: http://www.nature.com/polopoly_fs/1.10885!/menu/main/topColumns/topLeftColumn/pdf/486460a.pdf micro-RNA and Non-Falsifiable Phylogenetic Trees - (Well Researched) video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv-i4pY6_MU
And this 'serious incongruence' for RNA's amongst mammal species is on top of the fact that the alleged genetic similarity between chimps and humans is now shown to be dropping far below the 99% similarity Darwinists had originally portrayed it to be just a few short years ago:
Comprehensive Analysis of Chimpanzee and Human Chromosomes Reveals Average DNA Similarity of 70% - by Jeffrey P. Tomkins - February 20, 2013 Excerpt: For the chimp autosomes, the amount of optimally aligned DNA sequence provided similarities between 66 and 76%, depending on the chromosome. In general, the smaller and more gene-dense the chromosomes, the higher the DNA similarity—although there were several notable exceptions defying this trend. Only 69% of the chimpanzee X chromosome was similar to human and only 43% of the Y chromosome. Genome-wide, only 70% of the chimpanzee DNA was similar to human under the most optimal sequence-slice conditions. While, chimpanzees and humans share many localized protein-coding regions of high similarity, the overall extreme discontinuity between the two genomes defies evolutionary timescales and dogmatic presuppositions about a common ancestor. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/arj/v6/n1/human-chimp-chromosome From Jerry Coyne, More Table-Pounding, Hand-Waving - May 2012 Excerpt: "More than 6 percent of genes found in humans simply aren't found in any form in chimpanzees. There are over fourteen hundred novel genes expressed in humans but not in chimps." Jerry Coyne - ardent and 'angry' neo-Darwinist - professor at the University of Chicago in the department of ecology and evolution for twenty years. He specializes in evolutionary genetics. Study Reports a Whopping "23% of Our Genome" Contradicts Standard Human-Ape Evolutionary Phylogeny - Casey Luskin - June 2011 Excerpt: For about 23% of our genome, we share no immediate genetic ancestry with our closest living relative, the chimpanzee. This encompasses genes and exons to the same extent as intergenic regions. We conclude that about 1/3 of our genes started to evolve as human-specific lineages before the differentiation of human, chimps, and gorillas took place. (of note; 1/3 of our genes is equal to about 7000 genes that we do not share with chimpanzees) http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/06/study_reports_a_whopping_23_of047041.html The Gorilla Who Broke the Tree - Doug Axe PhD. - March 2012 Excerpt: Well, the recent publication of the gorilla genome sequence shows that the expected pattern just isn’t there. Instead of a nested hierarchy of similarities, we see something more like a mosaic. According to a recent report [1], “In 30% of the genome, gorilla is closer to human or chimpanzee than the latter are to each other…” That’s sufficiently difficult to square with Darwin’s tree that it ought to bring the whole theory into question. And in an ideal world where Darwinism is examined the way scientific theories ought to be examined, I think it would. But in the real world things aren’t always so simple. http://www.biologicinstitute.org/post/19703401390/the-gorilla-who-broke-the-tree
bornagain77_{March 17, 2013
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OT:
Life What A Concept! Robert Shapiro - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=ku9wUbbPVYg#! Professor Robert Shapiro~ "I looked at the papers published on the origin of life and decided that it was absurd that the thought of nature of its own volition putting together a DNA or an RNA molecule was unbelievable. I'm always running out of metaphors to try and explain what the difficulty is. But suppose you took Scrabble sets, or any word game sets, blocks with letters, containing every language on Earth, and you heap them together and you then took a scoop and you scooped into that heap, and you flung it out on the lawn there, and the letters fell into a line which contained the words "To be or not to be, that is the question," that is roughly the odds of an RNA molecule, given no feedback — and there would be no feedback, because it wouldn't be functional until it attained a certain length and could copy itself — appearing on the Earth." Robert Shapiro was professor emeritus of chemistry at New York University. He is best known for his work on the origin of life, having written two books on the topic: Origins, a Skeptic’s Guide to the Creation of Life on Earth and Planetary Dreams.
bornagain77_{March 17, 2013
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Boy, it's too bad they put together this nice movie and then choose this gal as the narrator. I was about halfway through before I could focus on the substance. I can't put my finger on it, but something about her tone is really annoying/distracting. Where's Morgan Freeman or John Rhys-Davies when you need them?Eric Anderson_{March 17, 2013
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Not to belittle this excellent animation from XVIVO, and the exciting avenues of research that extracellular RNA communication and control open up, but there just SO MUCH that is left unsaid in such a short video. Much of what is left unsaid in this present video was said in the last video XVIVO put out:
One Body – video – (XVIVO Animation) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDMLq6eqEM4
i.e. Although the human body is divisible into a seemingly endless multitude of different parts and systems,,,
How many different cells are there in complex organisms? Excerpt: ,,, although the number of different cell types in mammals is often considered to lie in the order of hundreds, it is actually in the order of 10^12 if their positional identity and specific ontogeny are considered. Humans have an estimated 10^14 cells, mostly positioned in precise ways and with precise organization, shape and function, in skeletal architecture, musculature and organ type, many of which (such as the nose) show inherited idiosyncrasies. Even if the actual number of cells with distinct identities is discounted by a factor of 100 (on the basis that 99% of the cells are simply clonal expansions of a particular cell type in a particular location or under particular conditions (for example, fat, muscle or immune cells)), there are still 10^12 positionally different cell types. http://ai.stanford.edu/~serafim/CS374_2006/papers/Mattick_NRG2004.pdf
,,,there is HUGE something that is 'lost in translation' in this reduction to the multitude of parts and/or systems, a 'oneness of being', a soul, that simply can't be reduced to the multitude of parts no matter however one may choose to divide and define his parts,,,
The Unbearable Wholeness of Beings - Talbott Excerpt: Think first of a living dog, then of a decomposing corpse. At the moment of death, all the living processes normally studied by the biologist rapidly disintegrate. The corpse remains subject to the same laws of physics and chemistry as the live dog, but now, with the cessation of life, we see those laws strictly in their own terms, without anything the life scientist is distinctively concerned about. The dramatic change in his descriptive language as he moves between the living and the dead tells us just about everything we need to know.,,, Virtually the same collection of molecules exists in the canine cells during the moments immediately before and after death. But after the fateful transition no one will any longer think of genes as being regulated, nor will anyone refer to normal or proper chromosome functioning. No molecules will be said to guide other molecules to specific targets, and no molecules will be carrying signals, which is just as well because there will be no structures recognizing signals. Code, information, and communication, in their biological sense, will have disappeared from the scientist’s vocabulary. The corpse will not produce errors in chromosome replication or in any other processes, and neither will it attempt error correction or the repair of damaged parts. More generally, the ideas of injury and healing will be absent. Molecules will not recruit other molecules in order to achieve particular tasks. No structures will inherit features from parent structures in the way that daughter cells inherit traits or tendencies from their parents, and no one will cite the plasticity or context-dependence of the corpse’s adaptation to its environment. http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-unbearable-wholeness-of-beings Epigenetics and the "Piano" Metaphor - January 2012 Excerpt: And this is only the construction of proteins we're talking about. It leaves out of the picture entirely the higher-level components -- tissues, organs, the whole body plan that draws all the lower-level stuff together into a coherent, functioning form. What we should really be talking about is not a lone piano but a vast orchestra under the directing guidance of an unknown conductor fulfilling an artistic vision, organizing and transcending the music of the assembly of individual players. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/01/epigenetics_and054731.html
From whence does this 'unknown conductor' arise so as to conspire to keep all these seemingly endless multitude of parts focused on the single task of life until that moment of death when the music of life is suddenly cut off, as if in mid crescendo, leaving us begging for more music? But the sadness is temporary, for the music of the life has not stopped at the moment of bodily death, it has just changed to a better venue to which, hopefully, we shall all be patrons one day:
Near-Death Experiences: Putting a Darwinist's Evidentiary Standards to the Test - Dr. Michael Egnor - October 15, 2012 Excerpt: Indeed, about 20 percent of NDE's are corroborated, which means that there are independent ways of checking about the veracity of the experience. The patients knew of things that they could not have known except by extraordinary perception -- such as describing details of surgery that they watched while their heart was stopped, etc. Additionally, many NDE's have a vividness and a sense of intense reality that one does not generally encounter in dreams or hallucinations.,,, The most "parsimonious" explanation -- the simplest scientific explanation -- is that the (Near Death) experience was real. Tens of millions of people have had such experiences. That is tens of millions of more times than we have observed the origin of species (or origin of life), which is never.,,, The materialist reaction, in short, is unscientific and close-minded. NDE's show fellows like Coyne at their sneering unscientific irrational worst. Somebody finds a crushed fragment of a fossil and it's earth-shaking evidence. Tens of million of people have life-changing spiritual experiences and it's all a big yawn. Note: Dr. Egnor is professor and vice-chairman of neurosurgery at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/10/near_death_expe_1065301.html "A recent analysis of several hundred cases showed that 48% of near-death experiencers reported seeing their physical bodies from a different visual perspective. Many of them also reported witnessing events going on in the vicinity of their body, such as the attempts of medical personnel to resuscitate them (Kelly et al., 2007)." Kelly, E. W., Greyson, B., & Kelly, E. F. (2007). Unusual experiences near death and related phenomena. In E. F. Kelly, E. W. Kelly, A. Crabtree, A. Gauld, M. Grosso, & B. Greyson, Irreducible mind (pp. 367-421). Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield. Michaela's Amazing NEAR death experience - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLEmETQdMkg&feature=player_detailpage#t=629s Good Morning America - Doctor Details 'Proof' of Afterlife Following Near-Death Experience - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSOb7NXWmGE&NR=1 Former skeptic Mary Jo Rapini Sees the Light, plus reporter Bob Woodruff's out of body experience - video http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/mary-jo-rapini-sees-light-bob-woodruff-former-nurse-skeptic-believer-primetime-nightline-14227538
Here is the entire Near Death Experience TV show, with Mary Jo Rapini and Bob Woodruff, that was aired on ABC in August 2011:
Beyond Belief: The Other Side - video http://abc.go.com/watch/primetime-nightline-beyond-belief/SH55131205/VD55138047/the-other-side?rfr=google
bornagain77_{March 17, 2013
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BA77: Thanks for keeping us up on such developments!kairosfocus_{March 17, 2013
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