And then they came for 2 + 2 = 4 …

I posted some comments on the very old Raoult thread that has now 600+ comments. So if anyone is interested in discussing anything about the virus, for the time being that might be the place till someone post a new OP. https://uncommondesc.wpengine.com/medicine/dr-raoult-roars-new-articles-on-findings-and-issues-about-hcq-cocktails-for-covid-19/#comment-706449 jerry

JVL “I hope her thesis advisor has a chat with her.“ LOL not likely unless she wants to get canceled, JVL I don’t think you appreciate how serious this movements ideology has permeated academia. Vivid vividbleau

News, Two very scary articles related to what you are talking about. One a blog post from Jordan Peterson about academia in Canada ( he is alive but how well seems to be still out.) It seems they are just as bad in Canada as the US. Peterson describes how the world has been turned upside down as one of the top Chemists in Canada is cancelled by a twitter mob and his university (Brock) has gone along with the cancelling. https://bit.ly/2BTELNm He also tells about a top physicist who has also been censured because of the woke diversity mob who insists that physics be diverse appropriate. Then there is this by someone who was instrumental in cancelling others and in turn got cancelled by the same mob. https://bit.ly/2Ds9bXt Can anyone says Robespierre. Or as I like to say the Montagnards will always turn on and eliminate the Girondins. jerry

Wow. People are responsible for their own actions, RP. How ignorant are you? Joe Biden exemplifies incompetency. At least Trump can get the economy booming again. And he will bring more jobs back to the USA. Biden is a clueless puppet. No one cares that you called for an open thread. No one here cares what you have to say. I only respond to add clarity to your nonsense. Or to correct your lies and equivocation. ET

https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-still-not-releasing-daily-covid-19-hospitalization-rate-2020-7 “Florida remains one of the few states to not release data on its daily COVID-19 hospitalization rate. At a press conference on Tuesday, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis ignored questions about when he would release the data, the Miami Herald reported. The Florida Department of Health reported 7,361 new COVID-19 cases on Tuesday, the rate of positive tests spiking to over 19%. The surge has been linked to DeSantis' early decision to reopen bars, restaurants, and other indoor facilities.” Retired Physicist

Fortunately the abject incompetence at the top only has about six months left. Retired Physicist

What I said was imprecise, the state is reporting some data about ICU capacity. They’re refusing-weeks after they said they would -to admit how many people are hospitalized with Covid. Which is filling up the ICU beds. And here in the middle of summer, “pneumonia” deaths are Way higher than normal. Every other wealthy western nation is having around a dozen new cases a day, we’re having 60,000. Utter failure by the national government. And I called for the third time for us to have open threads here, so threads don’t get derailed. Retired Physicist

Here's a curious illustration of the point I was trying to make at 4 above: "Seversky at 3: Unfortunately, views such as you describe are gaining a lot of traction. The attraction is that they enable people to dismiss accomplishments that they cannot understand, match, or surpass. There is a market for that sort of thing but formerly it wasn’t encouraged. Now it is." Suppose a Woke academic insists that physics is a classic example of white male supremacy. In the post immediately prior to this one, Rob Sheldon was discussing the views of two physicists, Sabine Hossenfelder and Claudia de Rham. One wants to ask, do Hossenfelder or de Rham think that? If so, what are THEY doing as professional physicists? Upholding white male supremacy? The reality is that the vast majority of the people screaming that garbage at the rest of us CAN'T do physics. They desperately want power to remake things but they don't want to be expected to show any achievements as to why they should have that power. That's probably why they discredit achievement in favor of some kind of righteousness. The worst aspect of the situation is that it is the most vulnerable people who fall under their control. It's the inner city student who is told that it's okay to flunk math who suffers later when she can't get as job that requires numeracy. And is told to blame racism, sexism, ableism, or whatever - anything but the fact of innumeracy. It's NOT the middle class kid, of whatever ethnicity, whose mom drags her off to math tutoring after her first flunk. She'll never be Hossenfelder but she will be able to honestly hold a job that requires numeracy. Vilifying the white (or any) middle class will do nothing to help disadvantaged kids but making a clean sweep of Woke education authorities might leave us with a chance to rebuild. News

RP: "The state is covering this up, but people in healthcare clearly see what’s going on." The statement in bold is flat out not true. You just took this post off-topic. Hijacking it for your own purposes with an accusation. Took two seconds to search and find your accusation is false. State officials reported this. They are maintaining up-to-date records across counties and actually REPORTED on current situations that Florida news organizations carried as of today, Thursday 7/9/2020. I have relatives in Florida and they know precisely what is going on with regards to cases and hospital use. One who is in a hospital for other purposes so I maintain a careful COVID-19 watch in Florida. All of this information is available to anyone who desires to look it up and to all News organizations around the world. Quote:

"As to the number of coronavirus cases continue to rise in Florida, the state is facing a shortage of available ICU beds. On Tuesday, when there were more than 7,300 new cases of the coronavirus reported, officials also reported that out of the state’s 5,023 ICU beds in the state, just 962 are still available.

As you can see in bold, Florida officials are reporting this information. And news organizations are reporting it. July 2nd, as reported from Shands ICU Bed usage and others... https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/hospital-bed-availability-in-north-central-florida/ar-BB16h28I Here is a link pointing to ICU bed usage by WTOP site(CBS News report at 8:55am July 8th). https://wtop.com/coronavirus/2020/07/nearly-84-of-floridas-icu-beds-are-filled/ And here is the link in that report updated TODAY, July 9th at 11:15AM this morning showing ICI beds available. ICU Bed usage in Florida No one is covering up ICU bed usage in Florida. Please do not hijack threads with false and misleading accusations. DATCG

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” - Albert Einstein

Supposedly what Einstein actually said but it is not important who originated it. jerry

Jerry: “The Difference Between Stupidity and Genius Is That Genius Has Its Limits” Commonly attributed to Einstein but that seems to be a myth. It's more likely to be a derivation of something Alexandre Dumas wrote. Not that it matters, it's still a great expression. JVL

“You can’t fix stupid.”

I have another T-shirt that says "The Difference Between Stupidity and Genius Is That Genius Has Its Limits" We are well aware of that on this site which is a microcosm of the world. People operate on emotions not evidence and logic. It's built into the species. jerry

"You can't fix stupid." -- Ron White Seversky

As of this moment, Duval County has 81 adult ICU beds available. I believe this is where Retired Physicist lives. Of course this could be a lie and the press has been negligent in reporting this cooking of the books. Of course there could be snowballs in hell too. But we shouldn't be talking about this here since the virus has little to do with the topic. It might give RHampton a new place to roam. Back to topic - I have a T-shirt which I wear occasionally that says 2 + 2 = 5 for large values of 2. It gets comments and they ask why I am wearing it. I reply because of the relativism that has become part of our society and my wearing is a statement of sarcasm. jerry

Floridians gather in groups, without masks. This is what you get. ET

Once again I suggest we should have an open thread for things that are off-topic. My friend who works at Shands just messaged me and said that in my county ICU capacity has been reached and overflow is now being sent to Gainesville. The state is covering this up, but people in healthcare clearly see what’s going on. Retired Physicist

The ghost of Lysenko rises to stalk the sciences again. Latemarch

Kairosfocus: it seems you don’t like where cultural form marxism leads, in the guise of critical studies. Maybe, you will now open your eyes to see what has been going on all across our intellectual culture, not just in the sci-tech citadel. It’s not pretty I certainly don't like the kind of twaddle promulgated by the person mentioned in the post. But I rather doubt her views are in the mainstream of working mathematicians. I suspect she will pass into the past fairly anonymously, her five minutes of fame being swallowed up by the the scores of later goofballs proclamations. Cultural fads come and go, things swing to and fro, usually too far initially. Once the anger and frustration have past, once some real reforms are implemented I think things will settle down. America just seems to deal with things a lot more emphatically than countries do in Europe. But then again, it is a much younger country. JVL

JVL, it seems you don't like where cultural form marxism leads, in the guise of critical studies. Maybe, you will now open your eyes to see what has been going on all across our intellectual culture, not just in the sci-tech citadel. It's not pretty. KF kairosfocus

Sigh. Some academic seem to need to say something instead of just leaving their stupid ideas where they belong. I hope her thesis advisor has a chat with her. JVL

Seversky: Capitalism is not corporatism. Capitalism is the idea that everything has value and not necessarily a dollar value. 1 person needs help painting a room, but cannot afford to pay a professional. 1st person calls a friend to help and says there is a 6 pack of beer in it for them. 2nd person tells 1st to make it a 12 pack. Both agree and the cost of labor for painting a room has been negotiated to have the value of a 12 pack of beer. That is capitalism. Corporatism is when corporations use a central government to regulate and tax entire industries. When taxes and regulations increase, small and medium businesses can no longer compete. They either close their doors or sell to a corporation. There is a reason corporations have lobbyists who become involved in increasing regulation and taxes on their own industries. Large corporations can spread the added cost to a much larger consumer base and have almost no impact on the cost of their goods. BobRyan

Science according to Critical Social Justice Theory “Thus, having imported much of this radically skeptical line of postmodern thought, Critical Social Justice sees science as social constructs specifically produced by powerful white, Western men—adding sometimes that they are straight, cisgender, able-bodied, healthy, of normal weight, and so on and so forth. This is meant to imply that science is a “way of knowing” (among many potential alternatives) that has encoded the self-serving political biases of those dominant identities. This makes it inherently exclusionary of all alternatives (see also, internalized dominance and ideology). Thus, despite proceeding from a fundamental misunderstanding of the principle of universality in science—that scientific claims to truth are only true if it is irrelevant who does the experiment—Critical Social Justice tends to believe that the authority of science has been unfairly privileged above that of other approaches, especially “lived experience.” Because the approach in Critical Social Justice is ultimately one that seeks reparations for oppression historical and present, it therefore views science ultimately as white supremacist, patriarchal, masculinist, Eurocentric, colonialist, imperialist, heteronormative, ablenormative, cisnormative, thinnormative, and all of the other relevant problematics. Thus, it contends, its knowledges are likewise problematic (and not to be trusted as much as those produced by other, less problematic ways of knowing). Scientific knowledge can therefore be disregarded under Critical Social Justice thought—and often is as a matter of moral imperative.” https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-science/ Vivid vividbleau

Vivid, culture-form marxism is of course the root of both narrow sense and broad sense critical theory approaches. They are fundamentally reordering our worldview away from honest, error prone pursuit of truth that empowers through wisdom, to raw seizure of power, along the way demonising and trying to pull down -- imagine, pulling down a statue to 2 + 2 = 4 or e = m*c^2 or F = m*a or s = k* ln w or E = h*f or the like -- whatever seems to them to be in the way of grabbing the power. The essential ill-advised mutiny on the ship of state driven by disregard to truth, disregard for that silly stargazer of a trained navigator and the like are utterly telling. KF kairosfocus

News Critical Theory and it’s marriage to postmodernism is the real culprit here. BTW I would save this quote from Sev who seems to be clueless but he will “woke up” when they start coming for ,STEM, the scientific method and the fruits of the enlightenment . Actually it’s already started. “My impression, for what it’s worth, is that neither Irigaray’s nor Harding’s views have gained much traction outside their academic circles and I doubt Marshall’s will either.” Vivid vividbleau

Robert Sheldon at 1: I read it. It's awful. The worst thing the Woke do is trap disadvantaged students in ineffectuality. Why should knowing how to talk so people will listen be a "white middle-class" accomplishment? It's very helpful and not even that hard a skill to learn. The white middle class learn it because they were not trapped in failing inner city schools where it isn't taught. Or even, in many places, encouraged. Seversky at 3: Unfortunately, views such as you describe are gaining a lot of traction. The attraction is that they enable people to dismiss accomplishments that they cannot understand, match, or surpass. There is a market for that sort of thing but formerly it wasn't encouraged. Now it is. And you know perfectly well that it isn't the capitalists who have gone to war against math. News

Brittany Marshall, a self-described teacher and Ph.D. student, took to Twitter this past weekend to voice her displeasure about the concept of 2+2=4, saying the “idea” of the simple math equation is merely “cultural.” “Nope the idea of 2+2 equaling 4 is cultural and because of western imperialism/colonization, we think of it as the only way of knowing,” wrote Marshall

This reminds me of the French feminist philosopher Luce Irigaray's claim that Einstein's e=mc² is a "sexed equation" or American feminist philosopher Sandra Harding's claim that Newton's Principia could be viewed as a "rape manual". It's just another version of the saying that to someone who only has a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you view the world through the filter of racism or feminism, you will see it in the most unlikely places. My impression, for what it's worth, is that neither Irigaray's nor Harding's views have gained much traction outside their academic circles and I doubt Marshall's will either.

One thing the progressive Woke perspective will certainly do is trap disadvantaged students in poverty. They will be forever consumers, not creators, of technology and the power and prosperity are largely on the creation side.

Actually, this sounds to me more like a description of capitalism rather than progressivism where the few with the right skill-set can become enormously wealthy at the expense of the rest of the less fortunate. Seversky

> unless the real purpose of teaching is to create a slave class for the elites George Carlin ~ The American Dream (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q) "...There's a reason education sucks and it will never ever get better... Because the owners of this country don't want that." Eugene

Have a look at this article: https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/university-venus/compassionate-grading-era-covid So if we reward students for labor rather than comprehension, wouldn't we be churning out ditch-diggers? And who will then teach their grandchildren? I detect an ecologically unsustainable system here--unless the real purpose of teaching is to create a slave class for the elites... Robert Sheldon