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Ann Gauger on why Darwinism = information loss

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Not gain.

Darwinism, as taught in school, is the claim that natural selection acting on random mutation generates huge levels of information, not noise. Here is what really happens:

Ann Gauger of the Biologic Institute here:

Microbiologist Ralph Seelke and I published a paper in 2010 where we demonstrated that cells always, or nearly always, take the easiest road to success. Given a choice between a simple two-step path leading to repair of two genes needed to make tryptophan, versus a one-step path that eliminated expression of the those genes, only one out of a trillion cells went down the path toward making tryptophan, even though that path would ultimately be much more beneficial. Why did this happen?

The genes to be repaired were overexpressed — too much of their products were made. Because one of the genes was broken in two places, no tryptophan could be made. Thus both genes were expensive to keep around. It was easier for the cell to break the useless genes than to repair them — one step instead of two — and the cells, having no foresight, took that path. Some of those cells deleted the genes, thus losing the information needed to make tryptophan for good.

In fact, that is what we observed. Nearly all the cells inactivated the genes (only one out of a trillion didn’t). Some of the cells even deleted the genes, thus losing the capacity to make tryptophan for good. Darwinian evolution travels by the shortest road, without regard for where it’s headed. And if the shortest road is to break an existing function — to lose information — that’s the path it chooses. More.

That clearly has implications for understanding cancer. The cancer cell is defective as a useful cell, but highly fit when lethal, due to dumped information:

Cancers develop when one or more normal functions in a cell are disrupted or broken. The ironic thing is that for the cancer cells, this breaking increases their fitness, their rate of growth and cell division, and thus is beneficial — to them. Normal constraints have been removed, allowing uncontrolled growth.

In that sense, cancer is a form of devolution. We looked at devolution here: Devolution: Getting back to the simple life:

Most of the time, when we think of evolution, we mean mechanisms for the growth of complex new information. After all, entropy (the tendency for disorder to increase over time) can satisfactorily explain loss of information. Yet, in the history of life, some forms survive while — or even by — losing information (devolution).

Which may not be good news for other parts of the life form or ecosystem.

See Talk to the fossils: Let’s see what they say back for more ways evolution can actually happen.

Here’s the abstract:

New functions requiring multiple mutations are thought to be evolutionarily feasible if they can be achieved by means of adaptive paths-successions of simple adaptations each involving a single mutation. The presence or absence of these adaptive paths to new function therefore constrains what can evolve. But since emerging functions may require costly over-expression to improve fitness, it is also possible for reductive (i.e., cost-cutting) mutations that eliminate over-expression to be adaptive. Consequently, the relative abundance of these kinds of adaptive paths–constructive paths leading to new function versus reductive paths that increase metabolic efficiency–is an important evolutionary constraint. To study the impact of this constraint, we observed the paths actually taken during long-term laboratory evolution of an Escherichia coli strain carrying a doubly mutated trpA gene. The presence of these two mutations prevents tryptophan biosynthesis. One of the mutations is partially inactivating, while the other is fully inactivating, thus permitting a two-step adaptive path to full tryptophan biosynthesis. Despite the theoretical existence of this short adaptive path to high fitness, multiple independent lines grown in tryptophan-limiting liquid culture failed to take it. Instead, cells consistently acquired mutations that reduced expression of the double-mutant trpA gene. Our results show that competition between reductive and constructive paths may significantly decrease the likelihood that a particular constructive path will be taken. This finding has particular significance for models of gene recruitment, since weak new functions are likely to require costly over-expression in order to improve fitness. If reductive, cost-cutting mutations are more abundant than mutations that convert or improve function, recruitment may be unlikely even in cases where a short adaptive path to a new function exists. (Public access) Pdf

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Comments
One of the mutations is partially inactivating, while the other is fully inactivating, thus permitting a two-step adaptive path to full tryptophan biosynthesis. Despite the theoretical existence of this short adaptive path to high fitness, multiple independent lines grown in tryptophan-limiting liquid culture failed to take it. Instead, cells consistently acquired mutations that reduced expression of the double-mutant trpA gene. Our results show that competition between reductive and constructive paths may significantly decrease the likelihood that a particular constructive path will be taken.
OK, so evolutionists are people who believe that things with a one in a trillion chance of happening happened over and over again, almost like clockwork, so that the first cell could grow into everything we see all around us. And this one in a trillion odds that was listed was only for a two step process. What if more steps are required? Reminds me of Behe's Edge of Evolution research. It quickly turns into ridiculous odds, as if one in a trillion were not bad enough! One in a trillion! Would that ever happen even once? But evolutionists need it to happen over and over and over again! Too incredulous for my little brain.tjguy
September 3, 2015
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Continuous Improvement, robot style. http://newsdaily.com/2015/09/robot-mother-builds-and-improves-its-own-children/ Natural Selection the guided way. Purposeful.ppolish
September 3, 2015
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The spin on this paper is getting even more unbelievable. Due to failures in the experimental system, the only question the paper asks is which of two mutually exclusive adaptations happens first: reversion of two specific bases in one gene (without intermediates that are more fit), or any one of a number of changes that inactivate the same pathway. The gross over-expression of the proteins in the experimental system imposes a huge fitness cost on the bacteria. Think viral infection-the cells have been hijacked and are spending energy churning out DNA and proteins they don't want and that are likely toxic. Gauger's own paper shows a variety of single mutations or insertions that spare the bacteria from this cost rapidly sweep her cultures. So before they can find the two steps to evolve tryptophan synthesis, they have punted the pathway, surviving instead by chugging along on the small amount of tryptophan she provides for survival. In the 4 years since the paper came out, has she fixed the failed experimental system? The lacZ reversion assay is done on an episome (single copy, little to no cost to bacteria). Why not do the RIGHT experiment, and then tell us the results?REC
September 3, 2015
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I think your assessment is correct Leonard. Oh, I wish I'd thought of "Leonard Hand" when I first registered. Not many people would get it, but it's a lot cleverer than just using some guy's name.Learned Hand
September 3, 2015
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Thinking a little further, I guess the improbability of two stage adaptive mutations (1:trillions) helps to hit home how improbable a multistage adaptation would be--astronomically so. So the argument is an extrapolation from empirical evidence, and real measurements, which is refreshing. It basically implies the whole history of life has to rest on adaptive/beneficial mutations that are within the reach of mutations that occur jointly at a couple of sites only. Such a path to every form of life has to exist from the origin of life to the present day.Splatter
September 3, 2015
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I think your assessment is correct Leonard. I don't see how information loss is relevant here. Her article is, in essence, about improbability. The fact that a desirable mutation is highly unlikely needs to be weighed against the population size. Is there some other aspect I'm missing? The fact she observed the mutation in a lab on a short time scale surely indicates it could be found in nature on a geologic time scale?Splatter
September 3, 2015
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Deming also prompted cooperation between the workers, instead of competition, but knew it would not be acceptable in the US. However, I believe times have changed! He gave them self-belief, the fuel, I suppose, of the Nipponese-Cambrian Explosion. Must have been a remarkable man. Also, the money saved and presumably made available for R and D, as a result of MacArthur's imposition on the CEO's of an income ratio that was a very low multiple (by our depraved standards, at least) of the entry-level worker, must have been helpful.Axel
September 3, 2015
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@Learned Hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA Sounds familiar? SebestyenSebestyen
September 3, 2015
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Ppolish I remember those days anything out of Japan was known as japcrap.... I am 100% certain that in 2015 it's no longer a political correct term and I'm in all likelihood going to be labelled a racist, bigot and hater for saying the word. So before anybody loses a brain, please slowdown to a panic and realize I'm only lamenting on the old days.Andre
September 3, 2015
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Some of us are old enough to remember when "Made in Jspan" meant low quality. That is, until Dr W.Edwards Deming taught them the concept of "Continuous Improvement" (CI). CI is a guided process steeped in statistics. Soon enough, Japanese Manufacturing experienced a "Cambrian Explosion" of better and better designs. Crappy steel wind-up toy cars became Honda and Lexus. Dr Deming became a hero in Japan:) Continuous Improvement is the foundation of Nature. Evo Bio guys/gals need to take some business classes. Understand the real world a lot better. Guided and purposeful is Nature. In a nutshell, CI says ignore the random defects. They're random for crying out loud. Concentrate on the defects that are not random. Defects with a cause. Attack the non random if you want to improve. Its how Nature improves.ppolish
September 3, 2015
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I think a rational being should conclude that the answer would depend on the inputs. The inputs she's talking about don't seem all that problematic to me. Others would be. Perhaps her next paper will expand the scope of her inquiry and explore the boundary. (ETA, which I should have said from the beginning, I think the title of the post is very misleading. Gauger doesn't seem to be saying that "Darwinism=information loss." I don't think she'd disagree with what I wrote in my first comment, despite the hostility it's drawn from the other commenters.)Learned Hand
September 3, 2015
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Learned Hand, Ann Gauger is giving you a "best case scenario" where in a strongly selectable improvement is only two changes away. She notes, honestly, that there is a one in a trillion chance that the two change fix will be found. You clutch the one in a trillion chance to your bosom and completely ignore the larger point that since the "best case scenario" is so remote that the "worser case scenarios" of 3, 4, 5, 6... changes away from improvement are so far out of reach, especially where small populations are concerned, that any rational human being should conclude the must be a different answer. StephenSteRusJon
September 3, 2015
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I feel like I triggered a reflex here. bFast is upset that Gauger's bacterial example assumes population sizes that aren't relevant to humans--but doesn't seem to think the underlying point is wrong. Asauber thinks evolution applying to populations rather than individuals is an evasion of... something, I can't tell what. Not much has been communicated here, guys.Learned Hand
September 3, 2015
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"Darwinian evolution is what happens to populations, not individuals, right?" Evolutionists: Trotting Out The Same Tired Evasions Since Apes Became Men. Andrewasauber
September 3, 2015
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Was anything I said inaccurate, or misleading in context? Do you think Gauger would actually disagree with what I wrote?Learned Hand
September 3, 2015
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Learned Hand, "When the population is way over a trillion cells, then you can’t just ignore the fact that some replicators take a slower but ultimately more successful strategy." Wow, that solves the question of human evolution, doesn't it. We are at the most populous point in human history, and have a population of about 7 billion. For most of (pre)human history, we've been down at a few million. Learned hand -- population solves it. Nope.bFast
September 3, 2015
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Learned Hand:
Darwinian evolution is what happens to populations, not individuals, right?
Natural selection, ie Darwinian evolution, pertains to individuals.Virgil Cain
September 3, 2015
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Probably not fixation of the slower strategy, I'd guess.Learned Hand
September 3, 2015
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What if the effective population size is 10,000, or, a 100,000? Then what do you get?PaV
September 3, 2015
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Darwinian evolution travels by the shortest road, without regard for where it’s headed. And if the shortest road is to break an existing function — to lose information — that’s the path it chooses. She acknowledges early on that one in a trillion cells don't take the short road. Darwinian evolution is what happens to populations, not individuals, right? When the population is way over a trillion cells, then you can't just ignore the fact that some replicators take a slower but ultimately more successful strategy. As long as the minority eventually reaches a better solution, it'll be favored by natural selection. I don't think she'd disagree with this. What's the Biologic Institute up to these days? Their research page doesn't show anything published in 2015 at all; BIO-Complexity doesn't seem to have published anything either. Are they going concerns?Learned Hand
September 3, 2015
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