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Arthur Stanley Eddington, Darwinists, and Repugnant Notions

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I have no “philosophical axe to grind” in this discussion. Philosophically, the notion of a beginning of the present order of Nature is repugnant to me. I am simply stating the dilemma to which our present fundamental conception of physical law leads us. I see no way round it; but whether future developments of science will find an escape I cannot predict. The dilemma is this: Surveying our surroundings, we find them to be far from a “fortuitous concourse of atoms”. The picture of the world, as drawn in existing physical theories shows arrangements of the individual elements for which the odds are multillions to 1 against an origin by chance. Some people would like to call this non-random feature of the world purpose or design; but I will call it non-committally anti-chance. We are unwilling in physics that anti-chance plays any part in the reactions between the systems of billions of atoms and quanta that we study; and indeed all our experimental evidence goes to show that these are governed by the laws of chance. Accordingly, we sweep anti-chance out of the laws of physics–out of the differential equations. Naturally, therefore, it reappears in the boundary conditions, for it must be got into the scheme somewhere. By sweeping it far enough away from the sphere of our current physical problems, we fancy we have got rid of it. It is only when some of us are so misguided as to try to get back billions of years into the past that we find the sweepings all piled up like a high wall and forming a boundary–a beginning of time–which we cannot climb over.

A way out of the dilemma has been proposed which seems to have found favour with a number of scientific workers. I oppose it because I think it is untenable, not because of any desire to retain the present dilemma, I should like to find a genuine loophole. But that does not alter my conviction that the loophole that is at present being advocated is a blind alley.

Eddington AS. 1931. The end of the world: from the standpoint of mathematical physics. Nature 127:447-453.

The “way out of the dilemma” that Eddington references, and which he rejects, is: “If we have a number of particles moving about at random, they will in the course of time go through every possible configuration, so that even the most orderly, the most non-chance configuration, will occur by chance if only we wait long enough.”

Eddington was clearly conflicted, and if I understand him correctly, he recognizes that when physics is pushed back to the origin of the universe, design (or “anti-chance”) seems to rear its ugly head in the form of physical law, and he would like to find a way out of this, because he finds the idea repugnant (despite his seemingly contradictory claim that he has no “philosophical axe to grind”).

Here’s an interesting thought (at least to me): When life is pushed back to its origins, design (or “anti-chance”) seems to rear its ugly head. This idea might be philosophically repugnant to some, but what if it is true?

It appears to me that Eddington was desperate to find an excuse to deny that design underlies the physical universe, despite the fact that evidence was making it increasingly clear.

Are Darwinists doing the same thing with the origin of life?

Comments
Gentleman! Could we please move the discussion to teleogical. Please take it to: Lee Spetner's Book Salvadorscordova
April 27, 2007
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Ok, thanks Sal. Sorry for messing up the thread...I just wanted to see if anyone was aware of those two books.Atom
April 27, 2007
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There are some mathmatical points in the earlier chapters on NDT that may or may not be off. For example, he made a claim that Natural Selection could only add at most one bit of information at each step. (Which seemed like an odd claim to me.) Then When I re-read what he had said, he was saying the SELECTION itself (a binary choice of accept or not-accept) could only add one bit. I think things like that may lead to confusion. But, the most valuable aspect of the book involves no mathematics; it is simply on his theory of inheritance with modification. Like I said, chapter 7 is what made the book worthwhile in my opinion. As a side note, he did pretty successfully defend his ideas against a talkOrigins critic here: http://www.trueorigin.org/spetner2.asp Judge for yourselves who gets the better of the exchange.Atom
April 27, 2007
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Atom, Alrighty, I'll post on Spetner's book too. I have read it. Some ID proponents like Gerald Shroeder have been reluctant to endorse it. Great book. So, if we can hold off further comment on ReMine and Speter in deference to Gil's thread, that would be appreciated. In the interim, Gil, I and others post a teleological.org. Visit there as I have just put up a thread on Spetner. Hopefully we can continue there rather than clog up Gil's discussion of Eddington. Lee Spetner's book regards, Salvadorscordova
April 27, 2007
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Regarding ReMine's book, I haven't read it, but almost everybody I have ever seen reviewing the book praised it, some were darwinists.IDist
April 27, 2007
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I heard of Spetner's work, but I am reluctant to buy it because I read somewhere that the math in the book isn't correct. So what do you think about that Atom? Thanks!IDist
April 27, 2007
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Sal, have you read Spetner's book yet? I bought that one and Genetic Entropy (at your suggestion), but found Spetner's a better argued read. So if you liked GE, you'll probably like Spetner's work. Similar in length and accesibility.Atom
April 27, 2007
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[OFF TOPIC] Anyone read these books? The Biotic Message - Walter ReMine Not by Chance - Lee Spetner, PhD.
I hope to post on ReMine's work sometime. It's in the queue of many projects. :-)scordova
April 27, 2007
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In the interest of defending Eddington's Christian faith, I would like to note that scholar Daniel Graves lists Eddington as a Christian who had a positive influence on Science. Daniel Graves is rather austere in whom he would be willing to count as a Scientist of faith. For example, he does not count Newton nor Pasteur in his book on Scientists of Faith. [although he lists them in the link I provided] That said, Eddington is to cosmological ID like the Francis Collins or John Polkinghorne are to biological ID. These men ought to be friendly to the idea, but for whatever reason they are held back. See: GRISDA on Eddington
Eddington was a deeply religious man and it is hard to determine from his writings whether his scientific work or his religious experience was more important to him. In his popular book, Science and the Unseen World, he discusses the relation between the two. He believed that changes in scientific thought might remove some of the obstacles to a reconciliation of religion with science, but he was wholly opposed to basing religion on scientific discovery. He believed that a personal relationship should dominate our conception of the unseen spiritual world, and that arguments for a deity were irrelevant to the assurance of a personal God for which humanity hungers. After all, we take the existence of our human friends for granted, not caring whether it is proven or not. Eddington took the passage in 1 Kings 19:11,12 as nearest to his own sympathies: the Lord was not in the wind, earthquake, or fire that Elijah saw on Mt. Horeb, but in the still small voice. Philosophers did not like Eddington's conclusion that ultimate reality is spiritual, but his thoughts have something to say to us today in the Christian world.
As we saw with the recent events at SMU and a recent newsweek poll, it is people professing the name of Christianity that, numerically speaking, have helped move anti-Design ideas to a place of prominence. Eddington strikes me somewhat as one of those. Salvadorscordova
April 27, 2007
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[OFF TOPIC] Anyone read these books? The Biotic Message - Walter ReMine Not by Chance - Lee Spetner, PhD. I just finished Spetner's book and I really recommend it. Chapter 7 of the book is a masterpiece. He goes over recent studies which strongly suggest non-RM+NS mechanism of change in organisms. He gives examples from African fish studies, "Darwin" Finch studies, tadpole studies, etc. He uses that chapter to explain his own theory of inheritance which accords well with all the observable evidence. It is his Non-Random Evolutionary Hypothesis (NREH). I highly suggest reading it, as it is an ID based theory and seems promising. It is different from both "Front-Loading" and Davison's PEH, but has commonalities with both as well. I think his theory taken with Walter ReMine's Message Theory paints a highly coherent picture of life and it's diversification. ReMine's theory concerns more the intitial conditions, whereas Spetner's theory focuses on the details of subsequent diversification. "The Biotic Message" - Walter ReMine - Available at ARN: http://www.arn.org/arnproducts/php/book_show_item.php?id=70 "Not By Chance: Shattering the Modern Theory of Evolution" - Lee Spetner - http://www.amazon.com/Not-Chance-Shattering-Modern-Evolution/dp/1880582244/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-3710470-5920649?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177687577&sr=8-1 Spetner's theory is something I think you'd appreciate, DaveScot.Atom
April 27, 2007
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tb That is a pretty poor "pediction of evolution" in that anybody with some knowledge of how flowers are generally polinated would be lead to make that same prediction. Silly Wikijmcd
April 27, 2007
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Phevans, What are you saying? I read your comment several times and haven't a clue what it means other than you are trying in some way to be contrary to bornagain77's comment. I am not sure I agree with all of bornagain77's statements but what is it that you specifically object to.jerry
April 27, 2007
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So I was reading the wiki article on Eddington, and stumbled upon a paragraph: However, recent historical examinations of the case have shown that the raw data were inconclusive, and that Eddington was arbitrarily selective in choosing which results to use. For a detailed account, see predictive power. So I clicked on predictive power to see what it is all about. And on that page further down I find a heading Other examples. Reading the next paragraph stunned me, yet I am on wikipedia and i shouldn't be more surprised. It reads: Other examples of predictive power of theories or models include Dmitri Mendeleev's use of his periodic table to predict previously undiscovered chemical elements and their properties (though largely correct, he misjudged the relative atomic masses of tellurium and iodine), and Charles Darwin's use of his knowledge of evolution by natural selection to predict that because there existed a plant (Angraecum) with a long spur in its flowers, a complementary animal with a 30 cm proboscis must also exist to feed on and pollinate it (twenty years after his death, a form of hawk moth was found which did just that). Source: Wikipedia - predictive power No more words to be added! Predictive power of Evolution - tsssstb
April 27, 2007
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And a quote for bornagain77 @ 1: "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." Robert Jastrowangryoldfatman
April 27, 2007
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And materialism once held that life spontaneously generated from non-life. Actually, I suppose it still does. Yeah, it reminds of Frankenstein's monster or zombies. Pasteur killed it, but some madman injected it with Deep Time and made it rise again to shuffle around and scare the townsfolk.angryoldfatman
April 27, 2007
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And materialism once held that life spontaneously generated from non-life. Actually, I suppose it still does.tribune7
April 27, 2007
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I don't mean to come off as contrary, Phevans, But the materialistic philosophy or paragigm as you call it, does indeed make specific predictions from its premise; chance acting on a "eternal" material base is responsible for all known phenomena we observe. As well, the Philosophy of Theism also makes specific predictions from its premise; a primary cause of "God" who exists in a timeless eternity created all material reality we observe. These two viewpoints are diametrically opposed, And when compared side by side Theism is, by far, the stronger premise in its accuracy for what man would actually discover in his pursuit of knowledge.bornagain77
April 27, 2007
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Um . . . I'm sorry? I think you've misunderstood something here. All of these scientific discoveries were made in a purely materialistic paradigm. Even then, these are not the kind of things that materialism would be "predicting", other than that they have been explained in a materialistic sense (not to the satisfaction of all, but that's not the point here).Phevans
April 27, 2007
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The whole materialistic philosophy is in a state of denial about the truth. 1. Materialism did not predict the big bang, Yet Theism always said the universe was created. 2. Materialism did not predict a sub-atomic (quantum) world that blatantly defies our concepts of time and space, Yet Theism always said the universe is the craftsmanship of God who is not limited by time or space. 3. Materialism did not predict the fact that time, as we understand it, comes to a complete stop at the speed of light, as revealed by Einstein's theory of relativity, Yet Theism always said that God exists in a timeless eternity. 4. Materialism did not predict the stunning precision for the underlying universal constants, for the universe, found in the Anthropic Principle, Yet Theism always said God laid the foundation of the universe, so the stunning clockwork precision found for the various universal constants is not at all unexpected for Theism. 5. Materialism did not predict the fact that the DNA code is, according to Bill Gates, far, far more advanced than any computer code ever written by man, Yet Theism would have naturally expected this level of complexity in the DNA code. 6. Materialism presumed a extremely beneficial and flexible mutation rate for DNA, which is not the case at all. Yet Theism would have naturally presumed such a high if not, what very well may be, complete negative mutation rate to an organism’s DNA. 7. Materialism presumed a very simple first life form. Yet the simplest life ever found on Earth is, according to Geneticist Michael Denton PhD., far more complex than any machine man has made through concerted effort. Theism would have naturally expected this. Plus, I Find it very interesting that materialism had to invent hypothetical particles to keep the equations of Gravity working properly when Theism would of predicted Gravity as a primary cause and would not have seen a need to invent them. Are not atomic particles the result of various forces acting on energy anyway?bornagain77
April 26, 2007
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