Information Intelligent Design

At Mind Matters News: Is information physical? It depends on what you mean by physical…

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David Snoke

University of Pittsburgh physicist David Snoke: You’ve read a book in order but can’t know if it was written in that order. Maybe the author started with pivotal Chapter 5, then wrote Chapter 1:

Essentially by definition, good information-carrying systems are intrinsically history-erasing systems. Let me expand on this. Deterministic processes favor one state over another and remove contingency. Deterministic processes say only this outcome is possible, and the other ones are not. So a deterministic process forces things into a certain state.

[Dr. Snoke goes on to talk about the difficulty that information systems create when we infer design in a system. Information erases its history so if you don’t know the history, you can only infer the design. But that doesn’t show that there is no design.]

For example, if you are given a book and you read the book, you will not be able to deduce what order the chapters are written in. You might assume the author wrote them in order. But they might not have. They might have started out with a really good idea for Chapter 5, then gone back and said, “I need to write Chapter 1 to introduce this.” I write papers like this all the time. I write the conclusion first, then I go back and write other parts and so on. Or I’ll describe the figures, then I’ll generate the figures.

There is no way to deduce from a set of information, how it was generated, almost by definition, because the information-carrying medium erases all history. Because it’s non-deterministic. Because it allows for contingency. So the very fact that allows many states as possibilities means that it doesn’t carry a history of how that was generated. In general, it’s not something you get just from the physical aspects of the novel itself.

News, “Is information physical? It depends on what you mean by physical…” at Mind Matters News (July 10, 2022)

Takehome: Information makes things happen but, curiously, it erases its own history. You’ve read a book in order but can’t know if it was written in that order. Maybe the author started with pivotal Chapter 5, then wrote Chapter 1. Design of any kind does not come with a history included.

You may also wish to read: Information theory: Evolution as the transfer of information Information follows different rules from matter and energy, which might change the way we see evolution. A pair of researchers have introduced an Information Continuum Model of Evolution (ICM) which takes into account that information is immaterial.

3 Replies to “At Mind Matters News: Is information physical? It depends on what you mean by physical…

  1. 1
    bornagain77 says:

    Darwinists, and/or materialists, hold that information is ’emergent’ from a matter and energy basis, and that information does not have an independent physical existence apart from matter and energy.

    In fact Rolf Landauer, (in the process of calling information ‘physical’ no less), said that Roger Penrose’s contention that information has an existence independent of matter and energy was a quote unquote ‘quaint notion’.

    Information is a Physical Entity – Rolf Landauer
    Excerpt: Information is inevitably inscribed in a physical medium. It is not an abstract entity. It can be denoted by a hole in a punched card, by the orientation of a nuclear spin, or by the pulses transmitted by a neuron. The quaint notion that information has an existence independent of its physical manifestation is still seriously advocated [6],,,
    [6] R. Penrose, The Emperor’s New Mind, Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1989.
    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/v.....8;type=pdf

    “Those devices (computers) can yield only approximations to a structure (of information) that has a deep and “computer independent” existence of its own.” –
    – Roger Penrose – The Emperor’s New Mind – Pg 147

    Yet, simply put, and as far as science is concerned, Rolf Landauer is now shown to be wrong about information not having an ‘existence independent of its physical manifestation’.

    The easiest way to demonstrate that information has ‘existence independent of its physical manifestation’ is with quantum teleportation.

    As the following article states. “scientists have successfully teleported information between two separate atoms in unconnected enclosures a meter apart,,, information,,, is transferred from one place to another, but without traveling through any physical medium.”

    First Teleportation Between Distant Atoms – 2009
    Excerpt: For the first time, scientists have successfully teleported information between two separate atoms in unconnected enclosures a meter apart – a significant milestone in the global quest for practical quantum information processing.
    Teleportation may be nature’s most mysterious form of transport: Quantum information, such as the spin of a particle or the polarization of a photon, is transferred from one place to another, but without traveling through any physical medium. It has previously been achieved between photons over very large distances, between photons and ensembles of atoms, and between two nearby atoms through the intermediary action of a third. None of those, however, provides a feasible means of holding and managing quantum information over long distances.
    Now a team from the Joint Quantum Institute (JQI) at the University of Maryland (UMD) and the University of Michigan has succeeded in teleporting a quantum state directly from one atom to another over a substantial distance
    https://jqi.umd.edu/news/first-teleportation-between-distant-atoms

    And as this subsequent experiment found, “the photons aren’t disappearing from one place and appearing in another. Instead, it’s the information that’s being teleported through quantum entanglement.,,,”

    Quantum Teleportation Enters the Real World – September 19, 2016
    Excerpt: Two separate teams of scientists have taken quantum teleportation from the lab into the real world.
    Researchers working in Calgary, Canada and Hefei, China, used existing fiber optics networks to transmit small units of information across cities via quantum entanglement — Einstein’s “spooky action at a distance.”,,,
    This isn’t teleportation in the “Star Trek” sense — the photons aren’t disappearing from one place and appearing in another. Instead, it’s the information that’s being teleported through quantum entanglement.,,,
    ,,, it is only the information that gets teleported from one place to another.
    http://blogs.discovermagazine......-HqWNEoDtR

    Thus again, as far as science is concerned, Rolf Landauer’s materialistic belief that information does not have an ‘existence independent of its physical manifestation’, is now experimentally shown to be a false belief.

    In fact, as far as quantum mechanics itself is concerned, it is now much more appropriate to say that matter and energy are to be considered derivative from information, rather that the other way around as materialists hold,

    “I, like other searchers, attempt formulation after formulation of the central issues and here present a wider overview, taking for working hypothesis the most effective one that has survived this winnowing: It from Bit. Otherwise put, every it — every particle, every field of force, even the spacetime continuum itself — derives its function, its meaning, its very existence entirely — even if in some contexts indirectly — from the apparatus-elicited answers to yes or no questions, binary choices, bits.
    It from Bit symbolizes the idea that every item of the physical world has at bottom — at a very deep bottom, in most instances — an immaterial source and explanation; that what we call reality arises in the last analysis from the posing of yes-no questions and the registering of equipment-evoked responses; in short, that all things physical are information-theoretic in origin and this is a participatory universe.”
    – John Wheeler
    https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/09/02/it-from-bit-wheeler/

    “The most fundamental definition of reality is not matter or energy, but information–and it is the processing of information that lies at the root of all physical, biological, economic, and social phenomena.”
    – Vlatko Vedral – Professor of Physics at the University of Oxford,

    Why the Quantum? It from Bit? A Participatory Universe?
    Excerpt: “In conclusion, it may very well be said that information is the irreducible kernel from which everything else flows. Thence the question why nature appears quantized is simply a consequence of the fact that information itself is quantized by necessity. It might even be fair to observe that the concept that information is fundamental is very old knowledge of humanity, witness for example the beginning of gospel according to John: “In the beginning was the Word.”
    Anton Zeilinger – a leading experimentalist in quantum mechanics
    http://www.metanexus.net/archi.....linger.pdf

    “It is operationally impossible to separate Reality and Information”
    (48:35 minute mark)
    “In the beginning was the Word”
    John 1:1 (49:54 minute mark)
    – Prof Anton Zeilinger speaks on quantum physics. at UCT
    https://youtu.be/s3ZPWW5NOrw?t=2984

    Verse:

    John 1:1-4
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

  2. 2
    Querius says:

    Thanks, Bornagain77.

    “The most fundamental definition of reality is not matter or energy, but information–and it is the processing of information that lies at the root of all physical, biological, economic, and social phenomena.” – Vlatko Vedral – Professor of Physics at the University of Oxford,

    So, if “physical reality” is actually emergent from information, then information cannot also be emergent from “physical reality.”

    What quantum mechanics has done is destroy the notion of a “physical reality” that’s different from information processing since “physical reality” has been repeatedly demonstrated to emerge from measurement and observation of a non-physical probability wave (aka the wavefunction).

    The problem is that materialists have continued to ignore quantum mechanics for a century due to their deeply held ideological prejudice. They’re simply not willing to go where the science takes them.

    So now many physicists have been working tirelessly to try to rationalize physics to their philosophical beliefs. As a result, science has been replaced by wishful thinking.

    -Q

  3. 3
    Querius says:

    Aha!

    THIS is the cause of double-slit behavior in quantum mechanics:
    https://youtu.be/s3ZPWW5NOrw?t=3011

    -Q

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