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At Mind Matters News: What Happens When You Feed a Translation Program Utter Nonsense?

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Indiana University cognitive scientist Douglas Hofstadter had a lifelong acquaintance with and admiration for the Swedish language and with the help of Swedish friends, became conversant with it. That led him in turn to try an experiment on machine translation programs such as Google Translate and DeepL. At Inference Review, he tells us, “although — or perhaps because — these programs have improved by leaps and bounds over the past few years, I greatly enjoy discovering and poking fun at their many unpredictable weaknesses.”

Thus the author of author of Gödel, Escher, Bach (1979) constructed a paragraph of pure nonsense in made-up Swedish, something like Lewis Carroll’s “Jabberwocky,” which plays around similarly with English:

All mimsy were the borogoves,

And the mome raths outgrabe.

Most of the words don’t exist and the sentence has no meaning. But it is phrased as grammatically correct English verse. 

On August 15, he fed it to Google Translate and asked for the English…

DeepL and the Chinese translation giant Baidu came up with entirely different complete nonsense. The comparisons of utter nonsense are breathtaking.

Well, in fairness, the machine translation systems could not have noticed that the original paragraph was meaningless either. A human translator, by contrast, would pick up the phone…

He draws out the significance:

And yet they were all produced by sober, no-nonsense, deadpan, tone-deaf, and stone-dead programs that have nonetheless been trumpeted in many prestigious and influential publications — such as the New York Times, the Economist, and others — as being astonishingly powerful and supremely accurate translators.

Along the lines of Robert J. Marks’s recent book, Non-Computable You, the difference between sense and nonsense is not a matter of computation. Pretending that it is won’t end well.

See full article at Mind Matters News.

AI is apparently blind to what would be obvious even to an adolescent human, when it comes to recognizing language versus nonsense. A similar distinction arises in the field of cryptography, although the process of recognition is more subtle. In a conversation I had with a retired U.S. cryptographer, he said that it’s possible to discern whether an encoded message contains an intelligent message or is just gibberish. The difference has to do with our understanding of and familiarity with language as a medium of communication between conscious and intelligent minds.

Comments
In a conversation I had with a retired U.S. cryptographer, he said that it’s possible to discern whether an encoded message contains an intelligent message or is just gibberish.
I am a computer scientist and cryptography is my speciality. This sounds interesting. Can you/he/she provide source code?Paxx
October 23, 2022
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Well, in fairness, the machine translation systems could not have noticed that the original paragraph was meaningless either.
When I put the sence "And the mome raths outgrabe." into a Google document (!), "mome" and "raths" are marked as incorrect. And Deepl assumes you wrote the sentence incorrect and guesses what you were trying to convey.
A human translator, by contrast, would pick up the phone...
... and ask the client for the intended meaning of the sentence.AndyClue
October 23, 2022
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In a conversation I had with a retired U.S. cryptographer, he said that it’s possible to discern whether an encoded message contains an intelligent message or is just gibberish.
I call bullsh*t on that one.AndyClue
October 23, 2022
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AI does not fare well without the input of intelligent information. But blind chance combined with naturally occurring elements would be successful where expensive artificial intelligence fails. Is that not the materialist position? One cannot help but be impressed by the creative power of chance. It seems ... magical?Blastus
October 22, 2022
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Jerry: What would it do with the 100% nonsense from the anti ID commenters here? GIGOPaxx
October 21, 2022
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Zweston/3 We’ve been outed. I certainly hope the check from DI is in the mail….chuckdarwin
October 21, 2022
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Ba77, At present, so-called Artificial Intelligence - which is not human level intelligence - is being applied in brute force fashion to translate human language, whether voice or printed text. The hope is to get rid of humans. To automate the process so as it gets better at figuring out what certain words in certain orders mean, it can gradually phase out human beings. Some progress is being made. However, in the case of voices with accents or that use non-standard words and/or non-standard word combinations, it is having difficulty. Assuming that people do not begin talking exactly alike across the United States, enunciate clearly at all times and avoid pauses and "uh," "and uh" and similar, then it can only be used in certain ways. Of course, this will all be programmed into The Terminator once it's built :)relatd
October 21, 2022
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a few related notes:
What Is a Mind? More Hype from Big Data - Erik J. Larson - May 6, 2014 Excerpt: In 1979, University of Pittsburgh philosopher John Haugeland wrote an interesting article in the Journal of Philosophy, "Understanding Natural Language," about Artificial Intelligence. At that time, philosophy and AI were still paired, if uncomfortably. Haugeland's article is one of my all time favorite expositions of the deep mystery of how we interpret language. He gave a number of examples of sentences and longer narratives that, because of ambiguities at the lexical (word) level, he said required "holistic interpretation." That is, the ambiguities weren't resolvable except by taking a broader context into account. The words by themselves weren't enough. Well, I took the old 1979 examples Haugeland claimed were difficult for MT, and submitted them to Google Translate, as an informal "test" to see if his claims were still valid today.,,, ,,,Translation must account for context, so the fact that Google Translate generates the same phrase in radically different contexts is simply Haugeland's point about machine translation made afresh, in 2014. Erik J. Larson - Founder and CEO of a software company in Austin, Texas http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/05/what_is_a_mind085251.html AI’s Language Problem Machines that truly understand language would be incredibly useful. But we don’t know how to build them. by Will Knight August 9, 2016 Excerpt: Systems like Siri and IBM’s Watson can follow simple spoken or typed commands and answer basic questions, but they can’t hold a conversation and have no real understanding of the words they use.,,, “There’s no way you can have an AI system that’s humanlike that doesn’t have language at the heart of it,” ,,, “It’s one of the most obvious things that set human intelligence apart.”,,, Basically, Le’s program has no idea what it’s talking about. It understands that certain combinations of symbols go together, but it has no appreciation of the real world. It doesn’t know what a centipede actually looks like, or how it moves. It is still just an illusion of intelligence, without the kind of common sense that humans take for granted.,,, Cognitive scientists like MIT’s Tenenbaum theorize that important components of the mind are missing from today’s neural networks, no matter how large those networks might be. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602094/ais-language-problem/?set=602129 Yes, "We've Been Wrong About Robots Before," and We Still Are - Erik J. Larson - November 12, 2014 Excerpt: Interestingly, where brute computation and big data fail is in surprisingly routine situations that give humans no difficulty at all. Take this statement, originally from computer scientist Hector Levesque (it also appears in Nicholas Carr's 2014 book about the dangers of automation, The Glass Cage): "The large ball crashed right through the table because it was made of Styrofoam. What was made of Styrofoam, the large ball or the table?" Watson would not perform well in answering this question, nor would Deep Blue. In fact there are no extant AI systems that have a shot at getting the right answer here, because it requires a tiny slice of knowledge about the actual world. Not "data" about word frequencies in languages or GPS coordinates or probability scoring of next-best chess moves or canned questions to canned answers in Jeopardy. It requires what AI researches call "world knowledge" or "common sense knowledge.",, Having real knowledge about the world and bringing it to bear on our everyday cognitive problems is the hallmark of human intelligence, but it's a mystery to AI scientists, and has been for decades.,,, Given that minds produce language, and that there are effectively infinite things we can say and talk about and do with language, our robots will seem very, very stupid about commonsense things for a very long time. Maybe forever. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/11/yes_weve_been_w091071.html
Simply put, computers don’t do context. A subjective immaterial mind is required in order to take an overall context of a given situation into consideration in order to properly understand and translate language.bornagain77
October 21, 2022
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Maybe the dissenters are paid by the site owner just to keep the revenue streaming? (I don't mean that in bad faith, but I think they owe those guys some money for driving traffic!)zweston
October 21, 2022
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Jerry at 1, The anti-ID commentators are here to disrupt the flow of solid scientific information that shows that Darwinism is a failed explanation. There is no other way to say this: It's their job. Their mission to front for evolution and to disrupt what should be a steady flow of ID information. With gibberish...relatd
October 21, 2022
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AI is apparently blind to what would be obvious even to an adolescent human, when it comes to recognizing language versus nonsense
What would it do with the 100% nonsense from the anti ID commenters here? Would we get Swedish we could all understand? Or would the algorithm just give up?
The difference has to do with our understanding of and familiarity with language as a medium of communication between conscious and intelligent minds.
Requiring intelligence leaves out anti ID commenters. So won’t work for many of the comments made here by anti ID posters. We will just have to still wonder what they mean.jerry
October 21, 2022
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