BBC cell film pays tribute to design in nature without knowing it

_{Denyse O'Leary

March 11, 2021

Cell biology, Intelligent Design}

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The Cell Secret Immune System – Secret Universe: The Hidden Life Of The Cell – BBC Two

To think it all just happened requires more faith than to think there is an intelligence underlying nature that enables it.

Comments

From the ID point of view it calls into question, I think, of the Earth being special and ‘designed’ or picked.
ET: It doesn’t do that. I think it does because IF life originated on some other planet in some other solar system (and just happened to get transplanted to Earth via some cosmic accident) then it seems to me that the planet where life originated is the special chosen one. Why start life on one planet in hopes that it somehow moves to the chosen place? That doesn't make any sense.JVL_{March 13, 2021
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JVL:
Yes, I am aware of your opinion.
What I said is a fact.
But I was just discussing the paper linked to by Martin_r.
No, you just made some irrelevant remark. That isn't a discussion.
Panspermia is an interesting hypothesis, okay with both ID supporters and unguided evolutionists because it avoids the disagreement.
Anything is OK with unguided evolutionists as long as it doesn't have to be testable.
From the ID point of view it calls into question, I think, of the Earth being special and ‘designed’ or picked.
It doesn't do that. And according to the authors of "the Privileged Planet" Intelligent Design increases the odds of more intelligent beings in the universe.ET_{March 12, 2021
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And as this follow up article in 2018 stated, "There is no obvious evolutionary reason why a protein should evolve toward a quantum-critical state, and there is no chance at all that the state could occur randomly.,,,"
Quantum Critical Proteins – Stuart Lindsay – Professor of Physics and Chemistry at Arizona State University – 2018 Excerpt: The difficulty with this proposal lies in its improbability. Only an infinitesimal density of random states exists near the critical point.,, Gábor Vattay et al. recently examined a number of proteins and conducting and insulating polymers.14 The distribution for the insulators and conductors were as expected, but the functional proteins all fell on the quantum-critical distribution. Such a result cannot be a consequence of chance.,,, WHAT OF quantum criticality? Vattay et al. carried out electronic structure calculations for the very large protein used in our work. They found that the distribution of energy-level spacings fell on exactly the quantum-critical distribution, implying that this protein is also quantum critical. There is no obvious evolutionary reason why a protein should evolve toward a quantum-critical state, and there is no chance at all that the state could occur randomly.,,, http://inference-review.com/article/quantum-critical-proteins Gábor Vattay et al., “Quantum Criticality at the Origin of Life,” Journal of Physics: Conference Series 626 (2015); Gábor Vattay, Stuart Kauffman, and Samuli Niiranen, “Quantum Biology on the Edge of Quantum Chaos,” PLOS One 9, no. 3 (2014)
As well, DNA itself does not belong to the world of classical mechanics but instead belongs to the world of quantum mechanics. In the following video, at the 22:20 minute mark, Dr Rieper shows why the high temperatures of biological systems do not prevent DNA from having quantum entanglement and then at 24:00 minute mark Dr Rieper goes on to remark that practically the whole DNA molecule can be viewed as quantum information with classical information embedded within it.
"What happens is this classical information (of DNA) is embedded, sandwiched, into the quantum information (of DNA). And most likely this classical information is never accessed because it is inside all the quantum information. You can only access the quantum information or the electron clouds and the protons. So mathematically you can describe that as a quantum/classical state." Elisabeth Rieper – Classical and Quantum Information in DNA – video (Longitudinal Quantum Information resides along the entire length of DNA discussed at the 19:30 minute mark; at 24:00 minute mark Dr Rieper remarks that practically the whole DNA molecule can be viewed as quantum information with classical information embedded within it) https://youtu.be/2nqHOnVTxJE?t=1176
Thus quantum coherence and/or quantum entanglement, contrary to what was believed to be possible in molecular biology just a few short years ago, is now found to be ubiquitous within molecular biology. Moreover, entanglement and random noise are mutually exclusive to each other, (just ask anyone trying to build a quantum computer),. Which is exactly the opposite type of biological activity that Harvard’s Protein Packing video was trying to portray. On top of that, what else is so devastating to Darwinian presuppositions with the finding pervasive quantum coherence and/or quantum entanglement within molecular biology, is that quantum coherence and/or quantum entanglement is a non-local, beyond space and time, effect that requires a beyond space and time cause in order to explain its existence. As the following paper entitled “Looking beyond space and time to cope with quantum theory” stated, “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,”
Looking beyond space and time to cope with quantum theory – 29 October 2012 Excerpt: “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,” http://www.quantumlah.org/highlight/121029_hidden_influences.php
Moreover, as the following study found, the greater the number of particles in a quantum hypergraph state, (which is exactly the type of quantum coherence that we have with protein and DNA molecules), the more strongly it violates local realism, with the strength increasing exponentially with the number of particles.
Physicists find extreme violation of local realism in quantum hypergraph states - Lisa Zyga - March 4, 2016 Excerpt: Many quantum technologies rely on quantum states that violate local realism, which means that they either violate locality (such as when entangled particles influence each other from far away) or realism (the assumption that quantum states have well-defined properties, independent of measurement), or possibly both. Violation of local realism is one of the many counterintuitive, yet experimentally supported, characteristics of the quantum world. Determining whether or not multiparticle quantum states violate local realism can be challenging. Now in a new paper, physicists have shown that a large family of multiparticle quantum states called hypergraph states violates local realism in many ways. The results suggest that these states may serve as useful resources for quantum technologies, such as quantum computers and detecting gravitational waves.,,, The physicists also showed that the greater the number of particles in a quantum hypergraph state, the more strongly it violates local realism, with the strength increasing exponentially with the number of particles. In addition, even if a quantum hypergraph state loses one of its particles, it continues to violate local realism. This robustness to particle loss is in stark contrast to other types of quantum states, which no longer violate local realism if they lose a particle. This property is particularly appealing for applications, since it might allow for more noise in experiments. http://phys.org/news/2016-03-physicists-extreme-violation-local-realism.html
Darwinists, with their reductive materialistic framework, simply have no 'non-local', i.e. beyond space and time, cause that they can appeal so as to be able to explain the non-local quantum coherence and/or entanglement that is now found to be ubiquitous within biology. Whereas Christians readily do have a beyond space and time cause that they can appeal to so as to explain quantum entanglement. As Colossians 1:17 states, “He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
Colossians 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Moreover, quantum information, like energy, is conserved. As the following article states, "In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed."
Quantum no-hiding theorem experimentally confirmed for first time - 2011 Excerpt: In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed. This concept stems from two fundamental theorems of quantum mechanics: the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem. A third and related theorem, called the no-hiding theorem, addresses information loss in the quantum world. According to the no-hiding theorem, if information is missing from one system (which may happen when the system interacts with the environment), then the information is simply residing somewhere else in the Universe; in other words, the missing information cannot be hidden in the correlations between a system and its environment. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.html
The implication of finding 'non-local', beyond space and time, and ‘conserved’, quantum information in molecular biology on such a massive scale, in every important biomolecule in our bodies, is fairly, and pleasantly, obvious. That pleasant implication, of course, being the fact that we now have very strong empirical evidence suggesting that we do indeed have an eternal soul that is capable of living beyond the death of our material bodies. As Stuart Hameroff states in the following article, “the quantum information,,, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed.,,, it's possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.”
Leading Scientists Say Consciousness Cannot Die It Goes Back To The Universe - Oct. 19, 2017 - Spiritual Excerpt: “Let’s say the heart stops beating. The blood stops flowing. The microtubules lose their quantum state. But the quantum information, which is in the microtubules, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed. It just distributes and dissipates to the universe at large. If a patient is resuscitated, revived, this quantum information can go back into the microtubules and the patient says, “I had a near death experience. I saw a white light. I saw a tunnel. I saw my dead relatives.,,” Now if they’re not revived and the patient dies, then it's possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.” - Stuart Hameroff - Quantum Entangled Consciousness - Life After Death - video (5:00 minute mark) (of note, this video is no longer available for public viewing) https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/10/life-after-death-soul-science-morgan-freeman/
Verse:
Mark 8:37 Is anything worth more than your soul?
Supplemental note:
Darwinian Materialism vs. Quantum Biology – Part II - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSig2CsjKbg
bornagain77_{March 12, 2021
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Likewise the following article on human vision stated that, “Research,, has shown that humans can detect the presence of a single photon, the smallest measurable unit of light”.,,, “it is remarkable: a photon, the smallest physical entity with quantum properties of which light consists, is interacting with a biological system consisting of billions of cells, all in a warm and wet environment,”,, and the researched added, “The response that the photon generates survives all the way to the level of our awareness despite the ubiquitous background noise. Any man-made detector would need to be cooled and isolated from noise to behave the same way.”,,, “What we want to know next is how does a biological system achieve such sensitivity? How does it achieve this in the presence of noise?”
Study suggests humans can detect even the smallest units of light – July 21, 2016 Excerpt: Research,, has shown that humans can detect the presence of a single photon, the smallest measurable unit of light. Previous studies had established that human subjects acclimated to the dark were capable only of reporting flashes of five to seven photons.,,, it is remarkable: a photon, the smallest physical entity with quantum properties of which light consists, is interacting with a biological system consisting of billions of cells, all in a warm and wet environment,” says Vaziri. “The response that the photon generates survives all the way to the level of our awareness despite the ubiquitous background noise. Any man-made detector would need to be cooled and isolated from noise to behave the same way.”,,, The gathered data from more than 30,000 trials demonstrated that humans can indeed detect a single photon incident on their eye with a probability significantly above chance. “What we want to know next is how does a biological system achieve such sensitivity? How does it achieve this in the presence of noise?” http://phys.org/news/2016-07-humans-smallest.html
Moreover, instead of proteins themselves being a collection of highly jittery atomic molecules, as the Harvard Biovisions video falsely portrayed proteins to be, proteins instead are found to be “analogous to the way wine glasses tremble”,,, "If you tap on a bell, it rings for some time, and with a sound that is specific to the bell. This is how the proteins behave,"
Symphony of Life, Revealed: New Imaging Technique Captures Vibrations of Proteins, Tiny Motions Critical to Human Life - Jan. 16, 2014 Excerpt: To observe the protein vibrations, Markelz' team relied on an interesting characteristic of proteins: The fact that they vibrate at the same frequency as the light they absorb. This is analogous to the way wine glasses tremble and shatter when a singer hits exactly the right note. Markelz explained: Wine glasses vibrate because they are absorbing the energy of sound waves, and the shape of a glass determines what pitches of sound it can absorb. Similarly, proteins with different structures will absorb and vibrate in response to light of different frequencies. So, to study vibrations in lysozyme, Markelz and her colleagues exposed a sample to light of different frequencies and polarizations, and measured the types of light the protein absorbed. This technique, , allowed the team to identify which sections of the protein vibrated under normal biological conditions. The researchers were also able to see that the vibrations endured over time, challenging existing assumptions. "If you tap on a bell, it rings for some time, and with a sound that is specific to the bell. This is how the proteins behave," Markelz said. "Many scientists have previously thought a protein is more like a wet sponge than a bell: If you tap on a wet sponge, you don't get any sustained sound." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140116084838.htm
Moreover, in the following microscopic picture of the bacterial flagellum hook basal body, you can see for yourself that the molecular machines of a cell are not nearly as chaotic and haphazard looking as Harvard's 'Protein Packing' video had falsely portrayed them to be.
Electron Microscope Photograph of Flagellum Hook-Basal Body http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-08-20images/figure03.jpg
Moreover, the protein molecules themselves, that make up the building blocks of the molecular machines of the cell do not find their final folded form by the random collision of particles within the cell. As the following article states, “when one calculates the number of possible topological (rotational) configurations for the amino acids in even a small (say, 100 residue) unfolded protein, random search could never find the final folded conformation of that same protein during the lifetime of the physical universe.”
The Humpty-Dumpty Effect: A Revolutionary Paper with Far-Reaching Implications – Paul Nelson – October 23, 2012 Excerpt: Anyone who has studied the protein folding problem will have met the famous Levinthal paradox, formulated in 1969 by the molecular biologist Cyrus Levinthal. Put simply, the Levinthal paradox states that when one calculates the number of possible topological (rotational) configurations for the amino acids in even a small (say, 100 residue) unfolded protein, random search could never find the final folded conformation of that same protein during the lifetime of the physical universe. Therefore, concluded Levinthal, given that proteins obviously do fold, they are doing so, not by random search, but by following favored pathways. The challenge of the protein folding problem is to learn what those pathways are. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/10/a_revolutionary065521.html
And yet, since proteins are obviously not taking the lifetime of the entire universe to randomly find their final folded form.
Levinthal's paradox Excerpt: The "paradox" is that most small proteins fold spontaneously on a millisecond or even microsecond time scale. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levinthal%27s_paradox
,, then, obviously, proteins must be finding their final folded form by some 'non-random', i.e. non-Darwinian, method. And in the following article, the authors found that the long standing mystery of exactly how a protein is able to find its final folded form so quickly can be easily explained if protein folding is allowed to be a “quantum affair” where the “protein could ‘jump’ from one shape to another without necessarily forming the shapes in between.”,,,.
Physicists Discover Quantum Law of Protein Folding – February 22, 2011 Quantum mechanics finally explains why protein folding depends on temperature in such a strange way. Excerpt: First, a little background on protein folding. Proteins are long chains of amino acids that become biologically active only when they fold into specific, highly complex shapes. The puzzle is how proteins do this so quickly when they have so many possible configurations to choose from. To put this in perspective, a relatively small protein of only 100 amino acids can take some 10^100 different configurations. If it tried these shapes at the rate of 100 billion a second, it would take longer than the age of the universe to find the correct one. Just how these molecules do the job in nanoseconds, nobody knows.,,, Today, Luo and Lo say these curves can be easily explained if the process of folding is a quantum affair. By conventional thinking, a chain of amino acids can only change from one shape to another by mechanically passing through various shapes in between. But Luo and Lo say that if this process were a quantum one, the shape could change by quantum transition, meaning that the protein could ‘jump’ from one shape to another without necessarily forming the shapes in between.,,, Their astonishing result is that this quantum transition model fits the folding curves of 15 different proteins and even explains the difference in folding and unfolding rates of the same proteins. That's a significant breakthrough. Luo and Lo's equations amount to the first universal laws of protein folding. That’s the equivalent in biology to something like the thermodynamic laws in physics. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/423087/physicists-discover-quantum-law-of-protein/
Moreover, exactly as the preceding researchers anticipated, the following 2015 article experimentally confirmed that proteins are indeed based on quantum principles. More specifically, the following study observed that quantum processes “concentrate all of the vibrational energy in a biological protein into its lowest-frequency vibrational mode.”
Quantum coherent-like state observed in a biological protein for the first time - October 13, 2015 Excerpt: If you take certain atoms and make them almost as cold as they possibly can be, the atoms will fuse into a collective low-energy quantum state called a Bose-Einstein condensate. In 1968 physicist Herbert Fröhlich predicted that a similar process at a much higher temperature could concentrate all of the vibrational energy in a biological protein into its lowest-frequency vibrational mode. Now scientists in Sweden and Germany have the first experimental evidence of such so-called Fröhlich condensation (in proteins).,,, The real-world support for Fröhlich's theory (for proteins) took so long to obtain because of the technical challenges of the experiment, Katona said. http://phys.org/news/2015-10-quantum-coherent-like-state-biological-protein.html
Thus , (directly contrary to what the Darwinists at Harvard tried to portray), proteins themselves are apparently ingeniously designed in such a way so as to be very resistant to any random noise that may be present in the cell. Moreover, in the following more recent 2015 paper entitled, “Quantum criticality in a wide range of important biomolecules” it was found that “Most of the molecules taking part actively in biochemical processes are tuned exactly to the transition point and are critical conductors,” and the researchers further commented that “finding even one (biomolecule) that is in the quantum critical state by accident is mind-bogglingly small and, to all intents and purposes, impossible.,, of the order of 10^-50 of possible small biomolecules and even less for proteins,”,,,
Quantum criticality in a wide range of important biomolecules – Mar. 6, 2015 Excerpt: “Most of the molecules taking part actively in biochemical processes are tuned exactly to the transition point and are critical conductors,” they say. That’s a discovery that is as important as it is unexpected. “These findings suggest an entirely new and universal mechanism of conductance in biology very different from the one used in electrical circuits.” The permutations of possible energy levels of biomolecules is huge so the possibility of finding even one (biomolecule) that is in the quantum critical state by accident is mind-bogglingly small and, to all intents and purposes, impossible.,, of the order of 10^-50 of possible small biomolecules and even less for proteins,”,,, “what exactly is the advantage that criticality confers?” https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/the-origin-of-life-and-the-hidden-role-of-quantum-criticality-ca4707924552
bornagain77_{March 12, 2021
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As to: "BBC Cell Film Pays Tribute To Design In Nature Without Knowing It" That video is VERY similar to the following video: In 2006 Harvard University, via a production company called “BioVisions”, made a video entitled The Inner Life of the Cell
The Inner Life of the Cell http://www.xvivo.net/animation/the-inner-life-of-the-cell/
The video by Harvard BioVisions was one of the first videos on the web that animated some of the amazing molecular machines that are now being found in cells. As you can see, the overwhelming impression of the intelligent design of the cell literally leaps out of the video at you. Since the Intelligent Design of the cell is readily apparent for all to see, Dr. William Dembski, one of the pioneers of the Intelligent Design movement, would, circa 2007, show the video in some of his talks to students on Intelligent Design:
Inner Life of a Cell w William Dembski commentary – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNs5kBE66Xo
When Harvard BioVisions found out about Dr. Dembski using the video, in his lectures to his students as a glaring example of intelligent design in the cell, they 'warned him’ not to use the video anymore.
William A. Dembski Excerpt: The Inner Life of the Cell copyright controversy,, David Bolinsky, creator of the video, wrote that Dembski was warned about using the video without permission,,, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_A._Dembski
Their effort to stop Dr. Dembski from using the video was futile since the video soon went viral on the web and anyone with access to a computer could easily download the video and watch it whenever they wanted to, and see for themselves the amazing design that is readily apparent in the cell. The Darwinists at Harvard Biovisions who had originally made the video apparently did not like this development one bit. And in 2013, apparently trying to undo the damage that was done to Darwinian thinking by their original video, Harvard BioVisions then made a subsequent video entitled 'Inner Life of the Cell: Protein Packing'.
Inner Life of a Cell | Protein Packing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHeTQLNFTgU
In the 2013 video, as you can see, Harvard Biovisions tried to make the inner workings of the cell look as random, chaotic, and haphazard as possible in order to try to dispel any impression of design in the cell that they had inadvertently created in their first video. In fact, in 2014 New York Times itself ran an article on the 'Protein Packing' video. (I’m sure many ID advocates wish they could get such free promotion for their videos on intelligent design in the New York Times.) In the article Carl Zimmer stated that ' “In the 2006 version, we can’t help seeing intention in the smooth movements of the molecules” but of the 2013 video he said that the molecules of the cell 'flail blindly in the crowd.” And that “Our cells work almost in spite of themselves.'
Watch Proteins Do the Jitterbug - Carl Zimmer - APRIL 10, 2014 Excerpt: In the 2006 version, we can’t help seeing intention in the smooth movements of the molecules; it’s as if they’re trying to get from one place to another. In reality, however, the parts of our cells don’t operate with the precise movements of the springs and gears of a clock. They flail blindly in the crowd. Our cells work almost in spite of themselves. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/10/science/watch-proteins-do-the-jitterbug.html
Yet, regardless of their overt bias against anyone ‘inadvertently’ seeing Intelligent Design in the cell, the fact of the matter is that we now have several lines of evidence firmly establishing the fact that the cell is not nearly as random and haphazard in its makeup as the Darwinists at Harvard tried to falsely portray to the public in their 'protein packing' video. For instance, in the following 2016 paper, it was found that “crowding in cells doesn’t hamper protein binding as much as they thought it did.” In fact, finding a lack of ‘collisions’ in the crowded cell was a ‘counterintuitive surprise’ for the researchers: Specifically one of the researchers stated: “This was a surprise,” “It’s counterintuitive, because one would think collisions between a protein and other molecules on DNA would slow it down. But the system is so dynamic, it doesn’t appear to be an issue.”
Proteins put up with the roar of the crowd – June 23, 2016 Excerpt: It gets mighty crowded around your DNA, but don’t worry: According to Rice University researchers, your proteins are nimble enough to find what they need. Rice theoretical scientists studying the mechanisms of protein-DNA interactions in live cells showed that crowding in cells doesn’t hamper protein binding as much as they thought it did.,,, If DNA can be likened to a library, it surely is a busy one. Molecules roam everywhere, floating in the cytoplasm and sticking to the tightly wound double helix. “People know that almost 90 percent of DNA is covered with proteins, such as polymerases, nucleosomes that compact two meters into one micron, and other protein molecules,” Kolomeisky said.,,, That makes it seem that proteins sliding along the strand would have a tough time binding, and it’s possible they sometimes get blocked. But the Rice team’s theory and simulations indicated that crowding agents usually move just as rapidly, sprinting out of the way. “If they move at the same speed, the molecules don’t bother each other,” Kolomeisky said. “Even if they’re covering a region, the blockers move away quickly so your protein can bind.” In previous research, the team determined that stationary obstacles sometimes help quicken a protein’s search for its target by limiting options. This time, the researchers sought to define how crowding both along DNA and in the cytoplasm influenced the process. “We may think everything’s fixed and frozen in cells, but it’s not,” Kolomeisky said. “Everything is moving.”,,, Floating proteins appear to find their targets quickly as well. “This was a surprise,” he said. “It’s counterintuitive, because one would think collisions between a protein and other molecules on DNA would slow it down. But the system is so dynamic, it doesn’t appear to be an issue.” http://phys.org/news/2016-06-proteins-roar-crowd.html
In fact, instead of a biological systems being “dominated by randomly colliding individual protein molecules”, the fact of the matter is that biological systems are now shown to be extremely resistant to random background noise. As the following article on photosynthesis stated, 'These biological systems can direct a quantum process,,, in astoundingly subtle and controlled ways – showing remarkable resistance to the aggressive, random background noise of biology and extreme environments.'
Unlocking nature's quantum engineering for efficient solar energy - January 7, 2013 Excerpt: Certain biological systems living in low light environments have unique protein structures for photosynthesis that use quantum dynamics to convert 100% of absorbed light into electrical charge,,, "Some of the key issues in current solar cell technologies appear to have been elegantly and rigorously solved by the molecular architecture of these PPCs – namely the rapid, lossless transfer of excitons to reaction centres.",,, These biological systems can direct a quantum process, in this case energy transport, in astoundingly subtle and controlled ways – showing remarkable resistance to the aggressive, random background noise of biology and extreme environments. "This new understanding of how to maintain coherence in excitons, and even regenerate it through molecular vibrations, provides a fascinating glimpse into the intricate design solutions – seemingly including quantum engineering – ,,, and which could provide the inspiration for new types of room temperature quantum devices." http://phys.org/news/2013-01-nature-quantum-efficient-solar-energy.html
bornagain77_{March 12, 2021
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ET: There isn’t any evidence that nature, i.e. blind and mindless processes, can produce coded information processing systems and living organisms are ruled by them. It doesn’t matter how far back the question is kicked. That answer will never change. Yes, I am aware of your opinion. But I was just discussing the paper linked to by Martin_r. You don't have to push your viewpoint every chance you get like a dog marking its territory. You CAN just let people have a discussion without putting your two cents in. Panspermia is an interesting hypothesis, okay with both ID supporters and unguided evolutionists because it avoids the disagreement. From the unguided stance it does simplify things quite a lot about the OoL question. But, again, from that point of view, it just pushes the question back onto another solar system somewhere . . . . From the ID point of view it calls into question, I think, of the Earth being special and 'designed' or picked. Some of the designed arguments make statements about the age and cosmological position of the earth. I'm not a proponent of ID so I'll stop speculating on how panspermia fits in with their views. It would be an interesting point of discussion?JVL_{March 12, 2021
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There isn't any evidence that nature, i.e. blind and mindless processes, can produce coded information processing systems and living organisms are ruled by them. It doesn't matter how far back the question is kicked. That answer will never change.ET_{March 12, 2021
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ET: Panspermia is not anti-Intelligent Design. I didn't say it was. Panspermia just kicks the question of ID or unguided evolution down the road. It means that however life arose it was a long time ago in a galaxy or solar system far far away.JVL_{March 12, 2021
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Panspermia is not anti-Intelligent Design.ET_{March 12, 2021
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Martin_r: Interestingly enough, the article you cite seems to support panspermia instead of intelligent design.JVL_{March 12, 2021
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let me quote from a 2018 mainstream article (ScienceDirect, 30 mainstream scientists published this): "The transformation of an ensemble of appropriately chosen biological monomers (e.g. amino acids, nucleotides) into a primitive living cell capable of further evolution appears to require overcoming an information hurdle of superastronomical proportions (Appendix A), an event that could not have happened within the time frame of the Earth except, we believe, as a miracle (Hoyle and Wickramasinghe, 1981, 1982, 2000). All laboratory experiments attempting to simulate such an event have so far led to dismal failure (Deamer, 2011; Walker and Wickramasinghe, 2015). let me repeat this part : "... we believe, as a miracle... " :)))) source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610718300798martin_r_{March 11, 2021
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JVL, Seversky and Co. Now, it is 21st century. We can see what is going on inside the cell. Darwinists, please explain, how a mentally healthy adult person can BELIEVE that all this somehow self-designed? The smartest people on Earth can't mimic even the most primitive cell functions, more over, all cell experiments require pre-existing bio-molecules extracted from living organism - nothing new is made from scratch (see Dr. James Tour 2021 series of lectures) JVL, Seversky & Co., do Darwinists really believe in miracles ? Darwinian theory is the most absurd scientific theory ever existed - especially in 21st century ... It is unbelievable that such a crazy absurd theory lasted for more than 150 years... it is like in some mental hospital ...martin_r_{March 11, 2021
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