In their view, it supports the entire discipline of cosmology in the sense that cosmologists are reputationally dependent on it:
Because cosmology as a professional discipline really only came about with the invention of the Big Bang Theory in the mid-20th century it has effectively been the only major operative hypothesis for astronomical research. Therefore it has become the only model that cosmologists can get funded to research. The observational evidence it produces and accumulates is usually interpreted in its favour. This gives it the appearance of solidity while giving cosmologists a false sense of security.
Note: Ekeberg is the author of Metaphysical Experiments: Physics and the Invention of the Universe (2019)
However, it would take a lot of scientists, funding and time to be able to produce a reasonable alternative theory that could account for almost nine decades of observations using the Big Bang framework. As a result, cosmology seems locked into a ‘zombie state’ – path dependent and stuck – and too big to fail.
As astrophysicist Stacy McGaugh says in the context of dark matter theory, “like a fifty year mortgage, we are still basically stuck with this decision we made in the 1980s… we’re stuck still pounding these ideas into the heads of innocent students, creating a closed ecosystem of stagnant ideas self-perpetuated by the echo chamber effect.”
McGaugh and Hossenfelder are among a growing group of scientists concerned about the ‘dark stuff’ who are making progress in questioning some of the most critical theories in cosmology.
Their effort may help the new generation of cosmologists realize that if these decade-old theories can be overturned, there is hope in solving cosmology’s deeper problems by re-examining the core principles of cosmology.
– Bjørn Ekeberg and Louis Marmet, “Escaping cosmology’s failing paradigm” at iai news (November 4, 2021)
Recent months have seen a number of opinion pieces against the Big Bang. Some think that’s related to Steve Meyer’s The Return of the God Hypothesis. Nah. Can’t be.
At any rate, you may also wish to read: Experimental physicist Rob Sheldon on CNN’s “problem” with the Big Bang Theory. The story is really about the fact that inflation theory — way Cooler than the Big Bang — was not especially confirmed.
One thing focusing attacks on the Big Bang theory does is, it takes the attention off theories with far less support from the evidence. Some may yet sneak through to acceptance because no one is putting them down…
The irony isn’t lost on me. If only they were as critical of macroevolution…but that’s the theory that their whole worldview hinges on.
And who are these “some” that think that? Puh-leeze………
CD, you always duck in, ignore the main point of it all, make a quick non-sequitur comment and move on…. You don’t think the uptick in creative alternative theories to the Big Bang is at all related to lay people understanding the implications of a finite universe? Or even the scientists reading things like Meyer’s book?
Is macroevolution too big to fail? Do you think science is as critical of the theory as the well established Big Bang theory? Why or why not?
Macro-evolution, as you call it, will stand or fall on it’s own merits.
As to the rest, I’m not here to debate science within these comments. That is pointless. This is not a scientific forum, but an ideological hodgepodge of religion and evolution-bashing with the occasional ad hominem directed towards those of us that refuse to drink the ID kool aid. I’m here in part measure for entertainment and part measure to comment on the more outlandish things that appear in these articles. Like the one above that coyly and ridiculously suggests that cosmologists are responding to Meyer’s book as the impetus for their research programs.
When an entire discipline is devoted to adding decimal places to one number, and the number represents a perfectly untestable hypothesis, something is wrong. The discipline is treating the untestable hypothesis as a proven fact. It may be correct or not, but more decimal places don’t bring us closer to answering the basic question. Science is supposed to be EXPERIMENTING, not polishing up an unexperimentable axiom.
ChuckyD,
“I’m not here to debate science within these comments. That is pointless. This is not a scientific forum,(science can only be spoken of in scientific forums?)
but an ideological hodgepodge of religion (so you are against people whom hold to a particular religion) and evolution-bashing (evolution bashing? Ah right the sacred cow, my apologies.) with the occasional ad hominem directed towards those of us that refuse to drink the ID kool aid. (Kinda like how mainstream employs ad hominem towards those of a religious nature) I’m here in part measure for entertainment (strange form of entertainment. Whatever floats your boat I suppose) and part measure to comment on the more outlandish things that appear in these articles. Like the one above that coyly and ridiculously suggests that cosmologists are responding to Meyer’s book as the impetus for their research programs.“(so you are privileged to information regarding whether or not these cosmologists are or are not responding to Meyer’s book.)
Your right this is entertaining chuckyD.
Big Bang has been flawed for decades. The only reason it has not been tossed aside as a valid theory is emotional attachment of perception. If someone perceives something to be so, they find ways to make it so.
Sounds like another commenter who comes here and provides nothing. Nitpicking is a characteristic of an unserious person.
Actually better science is often presented here than on nearly every other forum around. Interesting is how often ChuckDarwin is the one who brings up religion and throws ad hominems.
ChuckDarwin:
Let’s get serious for once Chuck.
You seem to have a problem with ID, but you won’t tell us what it is.
ID is the science of design detection — how to recognize patterns arranged by an intelligent cause for a purpose. Design detection is used in a number of scientific fields, including anthropology, forensic sciences that seek to explain the cause of events such as a death or fire, cryptanalysis and the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI).
So again, what is your problem with ID? Is it perhaps your position that there are no intelligently designed objects? Or is it your position that intelligent design is undetectable by science? Or do you have an emotional problem with the implications of ID? Explain yourself.
Origenes: Design detection is used in a number of scientific fields, including anthropology, forensic sciences that seek to explain the cause of events such as a death or fire, cryptanalysis and the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI).
Not saying the methods of ID are similar to those used in the other fields cited but I was wondering . . .
Why do you think that, unlike the other fields cited, ID has no research agenda, no dedicated journals, not much of a publication record, little to no objective tests or criteria, few academic conferences, no departments even considering Christian or Bible college or theological institutions?
It seems that ID hasn’t generated enough work or results to be of much use. Or, not? I don’t know of any field researchers who are using ID-style methods to shine a light on possible design inferences. But I may be wrong.
#9 Origenes
Actually I’ve explained my “problem with ID” a number of times in these comments, apparently to no avail. Simply put, I have a “problem” with religion masquerading as science and the implications thereof. From the drafting of the Wedge Document in 1998 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy) to publication of Meyer’s “God hypothesis” book this year, the religious (i.e. Christian) underpinnings of ID have always been the real agenda of the ID movement.
>”Why do you think that, unlike the other fields cited, ID has no research agenda, no dedicated journals, not much of a publication record, little to no objective tests or criteria, few academic conferences.”
Same answer I gave last time: far less money than the reigning paradigm has at its disposal. And those in the top paradigm don’t give that up. Perhaps your idealism about science is a little too…idealistic. Factor human nature in, and the way science operates starts to make a lot more sense.
CD @ 11….
If the evidence leads to God, why is it contemptible? What is your beef scientifically with the conclusions of ID… that life is intelligently designed and cannot be the results only of natural material processes.
Why is a reference to a transcendent creative being defaulted as not reasonable or bad a priori?
What evidence would there have to be for you to rule out naturalism/materialism a priori? Maybe consciousness, Near Death experiences, miracles, mathematical near impossibility of life randomly assembling itself, fine tuning of the universe, lots of counter evidence to the proposed darwinistic paradigm?
I haven’t been around here that long. But, I haven’t seen where you have shown where ID has been wrong or insufficient in their findings, objections, and conclusions… it seems you are just repulsed with religion.
I’m just going to go out on a limb… it seems, in my opinion, CD and Sev’s problems have to do with the Character of God, not really with the science of ID. They don’t like the implications of the Biblical God being real.
If you only saw the big picture… God made things very good, then we were deceived and put under a spell by Satan, then we have all gone astray. Everyone knows this world is messed up, and atheists love to raise the problem of evil…but the problem of evil implies a standard of Good that none of us have achieved, which is an appeal to God ultimately…
I digress…. God’s heart is to restore the world and reclaim the ground taken by the evil one. He is a Re- God… Restore, reconcile, regenerate, reclaim, resurrection, redemption… His character is such that he is on a reclamation project and invites all of us to join into it… if we would just accept the offering that breaks the curse on sin.
Heaven isn’t some celestial spiritual realm… it’s earth restored to what it was always supposed to be. The New Earth is called that for a reason… it will be like it is now, but all the idolatry and corruption destroyed and a right relationship and fellowship with our creator restored. God’s dwelling place will be with man. It’s really quite amazing. It’s why we all love a good super-hero or redemption story. It’s just a copy of the greatest story ever told. It’s why we are repulsed by death, because we weren’t created to die.
Now, you can raise all kinds of objections and ask questions, sure, but there isn’t a better story out there. There just isn’t. God is a reclaiming God..and he has made a way for us to get back to the very good He intended.
Follow the science…it leads to God. It does. Everything you observe screams it as well.
The ID movement is a response to the current paradigm that has brainwashed several generations to discount their instincts and intuition that the world is created and designed… mankind has corrupted a good thing, which is scientific investigation. Money, power, funding, and ultimately a worldview that despises theism is the culprit of that.
All roads lead to Jesus Christ. I do think you guys know that. You just don’t like it for now. God is way better than you think. And if you say he’s bad…I’d ask…by what standard? Says who?
JVL @ 10…. I feel like you just gave a more nuanced response that boils ultimately down to “why can’t your stuff make peer review?”…. what’s interesting is the title of the thread and the article points to the same problem for alternative theories to the Big Bang…. re-read the article. Evolution is too big to fail.
Of the claims and studies and observations that ID makes…what is incorrect? What scientifically is flawed about what they are doing?
Zweston: Evolution is too big to fail.
That is false. In the last 150 years unguided evolutionary theory has been modified and changes many times because new data and processes were discovered and incorporated. If the right data and processes are discovered then, potentially, the whole thing could be replaced.
Are you going to answer the question? Let’s start with: does ID have a research agenda?
Has been modified common descent fable ? When ?
Did you mistake ID for Origin Of Life research? ID is normal science with an very small update
Flash news :
– functional information that runs complex systems is not generated by natural laws.
-functional information of life is much more complex than functional information created by human mind.
-life is functionally COHERENT and its codes are too complex to be broken by humans but we recognize what A CODE is even if we can’t break it.
JVL claims,
That claim reminds me of the time that Natural Selection itself, (Charles Darwin’s main claim to scientific fame), was thrown under the bus by the mathematics of population genetics, and neutral theory was adopted, and the Dutch biologist Gert Korthof boasted that “A critique of neo-Darwinism can be incorporated into neo-Darwinism if there is evidence and a good theory, which contributes to the progress of science.” To which David Berlinski quipped, “By this standard, if the Archangel Gabriel were to accept personal responsibility for the Cambrian explosion, his views would be widely described as neo-Darwinian.”
In short, with the adoption of the ‘neutral theory’ of evolution by prominent Darwinists, (such as Dan Graur and Larry Moran), and the casting aside of Natural Selection as a major player in evolution, Darwinists, (at least the ones who know that natural selection has now been falsified as the supposed ‘designer substitute’ by the mathematics of population genetics), are now reduced to arguing that chance alone, all by its lonesome, is the cause for the ‘appearance of design’ that we see permeating life.
As Austin Hughes stated ‘Darwinism asserts that natural selection is the driving force of evolutionary change. It is the claim of the neutral theory, on the other hand, that the majority of evolutionary change is due to chance.’
Yet, even Richard Dawkins himself finds the claim that chance alone, all by its lonesome, can explain life to be “absolutely inconceivable”.
Specifically, in the following video Richard Dawkins states that, “it cannot come about by chance. It’s absolutely inconceivable that you could get anything as complicated or well designed as a modern bird or a human or a hedgehog coming about by chance.’
To put it even more bluntly than Richard Dawkins did with his ‘absolutely inconceivable’ quote, Jay Homnick states, “Once you allow the intellect to consider that an elaborate organism with trillions of microscopic interactive components can be an accident… you have essentially “lost your mind.”
Moreover, even though Natural Selection itself is now known to be falsified by population genetics itself, the vast majority of Darwinists, even in the peer-reviewed literature such as ENCODE, still speak of Natural Selection as if it has not been falsified.
Moreover, besides the fact that Natural Selection has now been falsified as the supposed ‘designer substitute’,,,
,,, besides the fact that Natural Selection has now been falsified as the supposed ‘designer substitute’, mutations themselves are now shown, in the vast majority of instances, not to be random but to be directed,
Thus JVL’s claim that “If the right data and processes are discovered then, potentially, the whole thing could be replaced” is simply a false claim. The ‘whole thing’ of Darwin’s theory persists in spite of the fact that both Natural Selection and Random Mutations have been falsified.
Besides the falsifications of Natural Selection and Random Mutations, there are many other falsifications of Darwin’s theory, falsifications that go to the core of the theory, that Darwinists simply refuse to ever accept as falsifications of their theory,
Thus it is simply laughable that JVL would try to claim that Darwin’s theory is open to potential falsification.
Darwin’s theory is simply impervious to empirical falsification, and as such “it does not speak about reality.”
Verse:
No it essentially hasn’t changed.
It is a model based on DNA though Darwin didn’t know that. But he described a process of small changes to DNA (animal breeding) which would then lead to larger changes. That still is the model taught everywhere.
But it’s wrong because DNA is not the origin/basis for Evolution. It does lead to micro evolution but micro evolution does not add up to macro evolution even after a trillion steps. That was Darwin’s fatal mistake and all evolutionary biology has followed in lock step.
PS: Darwinism is great science. It’s just has nothing to do with Evolution. It’s the science of genetics.
JVL@ 15… What does a research agenda have to do with whether Neo-Darwinism being too big to fail?
Please also don’t skip over what everyone just posted between our posts.
JVL, do you hold to the Neo-darwinist model as the origin of all the diversity of life?
Everyone, do you know what would be refreshing…. if any of the darwinists on here would be willing, post a post where you critique modern evolutionary theory… show us that you have heard the data and arguments and you can put them together in a cohesive critique of the theory. Do it honestly, then maybe we wouldn’t have to circle back all the time. I dare you to compile data and arguments for the statement “Neo-darwinism is not valid as an explanation for the development of all diversity of life on earth” Will you accept the challenge? SEV, CD, JVL, whoever else? Lets see if you can make a good case against your accepted view? That’s intellectual honesty. I’m sure plenty of posters on here could post an argument in favor of Neo-darwinism to communicate that we understand what darwinists posit and are saying.
Of semi related note to the fact that Darwinists have, essentially, “lost their mind” in believing that life can be an accident, is this beautiful quote from Neil Thomas, “This abdication of normal canons of reason consisted in people forsaking traditional norms of philosophical common sense and (effectively) throwing in their lot with the ancient goddess of chance, Lady Fortuna (or Lady Luck as she was later to be called), that accursed personification of unreliability whom the ancient philosopher Boethius, Geoffrey Chaucer, and many others have arraigned since time out of mind for being incapable of any productive and dependable action on behalf of struggling humanity.”
JVL:
There still isn’t any scientific theory of evolution by means of unguided processes. That’s because no one knows how to test the claim that unguided processes did it.
Yes. However unguided evolution does not. You lose.