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Biologos & NPR on Adam and Eve – but is it Science?


Biologos have responded to the NPR program, by suggesting that it is OK to believe in a literal Adam and Eve as theology, even if science is silent on the question. http://biologos.org/blog/nprs-adam-and-eve-story

Darrel Falk and Kathryn Applegate write that “There is no scientific reason to upset that theological apple cart. Indeed as scientists, we must respect the theological diversity of Evangelicalism.” although adding “Science is an amazing tool that gives insight into our world, one which is so effective that it is allows us to become virtually certain about some things.” I would prefer though to maintain a degree of greater scientific scepticism concerning historical questions that are not directly testable, lest we turn our scientific narratives into self delusion. But this approach allows them to hold to science and theology by keeping the questions entirely separate, and I would agree that science cannot determine the outcome of this question, although the suggestion of the existence of Mitochondrial Eve and Y Chromosomal Adam might offer some support.

There are two books in the Baker Book House July 2011 top ten that also address these question http://bbhchurchconnection.wordpress.com/2011/08/02/july-2011-best-sellers/

No. 10 – Should Christians Embrace Evolution? Nevin (ed), IVP – P&R Publ. This book deals with the question and also argues for a literal Adam and Eve – one of the 2011 World Magazine’s book of the Year (the other was Jay Richards (ed) God and Evolution).

No. 8 – Did Adam and Eve Really Exist? C.J.Collins, Crossway – again the author of this book wishes to mantain a commitment to a literal Adam and Eve even if the Genesis story is to be read as literature and not literal history.

Did Adam and Eve perform the first scientific experiment by putting God to the test? Mung
Of related note; This genetic similarity study that Casey Luskin wrote about a several weeks ago is relevant; Study Reports a Whopping "23% of Our Genome" Contradicts Standard Human-Ape Evolutionary Phylogeny - Casey Luskin - June 2011 Excerpt: For about 23% of our genome, we share no immediate genetic ancestry with our closest living relative, the chimpanzee. This encompasses genes and exons to the same extent as intergenic regions. We conclude that about 1/3 of our genes started to evolve as human-specific lineages before the differentiation of human, chimps, and gorillas took place. (of note; 1/3 of our genes is equal to about 7000 genes that we do not share with chimpanzees) http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/06/study_reports_a_whopping_23_of047041.html bornagain77
Somebody (or everybody) over at Biologos needs to read Fazale Rana and Hugh Ross's book "Who Was Adam?". Bantay
The npr program is - available here Is there a rift in Biologos ? Quote "Venema is a senior fellow at BioLogos Foundation, a Christian group that tries to reconcile faith and science. The group was founded by Francis Collins, an evangelical and the current head of the National Institutes of Health, who, because of his position, declined an interview. And Venema is part of a growing cadre of Christian scholars who say they want their faith to come into the 21st century. Another one is John Schneider, who taught theology at Calvin College in Michigan until recently. He says it's time to face facts: There was no historical Adam and Eve, no serpent, no apple, no fall that toppled man from a state of innocence. "Evolution makes it pretty clear that in nature, and in the moral experience of human beings, there never was any such paradise to be lost," Schneider says. "So Christians, I think, have a challenge, have a job on their hands to reformulate some of their tradition about human beginnings." Steno
another fitting song: Solid Rock - the 5th service band Featuring TRU-SERVA - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4jD70Y-mQ0 bornagain77
corrected link: Kutless: Promise of a Lifetime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wgA93WQWKE bornagain77
What is Truth? John 18:38 "What is truth?" Pilate asked. With this he went out again to the Jews and said, "I find no basis for a charge against him. To varying degrees everyone looks for truth. A few people have traveled to distant lands seeking gurus in their quest to find “Truth”. People are happy when they discover a new truth into the mysteries of life. People who have deep insights into the truth of how things actually work are considered wise. In the bible Jesus says “You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.” So, since truth is considered such a good thing, let us look for truth in a common object; a simple rock. Few people would try to argue that a rock is not real. Someone who would argue that it is not real could bang his head on the rock until he was satisfied the rock is real. A blind man in a darkened cave would feel the rock hitting his head just as well as a sighted man who saw the rock coming. A rock is composed of three basic ingredients; energy, force and truth. From Einstein’s famous equation (e=mc2) we know that all matter (solids, liquids and gases) of the universe is ultimately made up of energy and therefore the entire rock can "hypothetically" be reduced to energy. E=mc²: Einstein explains his famous formula - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC7Sg41Bp-U E=mc2 - Einstein and the World’s Most Famous Equation (The history behind each piece of the equation) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDr9j1cJxPQ This energy is “woven” by various complex, unchanging, transcendent, universal forces into the atoms of the rock. The amount of energy woven by these complex interactions of various, unchanging, universal forces into the rock is tremendous. This tremendous energy that is in the rock is clearly demonstrated by the detonation of nuclear bombs. This woven energy is found in each and every individual “particle/wave” of every atom, in the trillions upon trillions of atoms in the rock. While energy can be said to be what gives “substance” to the rock, energy in and of itself is a "non-solid" entity. In fact, the unchanging, transcendent, universal constants/forces, that tell the energy exactly where to be and what to do in the rock, can be said to be the ONLY solid, uncompromising "thing" in the rock. Yet there is another ingredient which went into making the rock besides constants/forces and energy. An ingredient that is often neglected to be looked at as a “real” component of the rock. It is the transcendent and spiritual component of truth. If truth did not exist the rock would not exist. This is as obvious as the fact that the rock would not exist if energy and/or unchanging force did not exist. It is the truth in and of the logical laws of the interrelated unchanging forces of the universal constants that govern the energy in the rock that enable the rock to be a rock in the first place. Is truth independent and dominant of the energy and force? Yes of course, there are many philosophical truths that are not dependent on energy or force for them to still be true. Yet energy and unchanging force are precisely subject to what the "truth" tells them they can and cannot do. To put it another way, the rock cannot exist without truth yet the truth can exist without the rock. Energy and force must obey the truth that is above them or else the rock can’t possibly exist. Since truth clearly dictates what energy and/or unchanging force can or cannot do, it follows that truth dominates energy and unchanging force. Energy and unchanging force do not dominate truth. It is also obvious that if all energy and/or force stopped existing in this universe, the truth that ruled the energy and force in the rock would still be logically true. Thus, truth can be said to be eternal, or timeless in nature. It is also obvious that truth is omnipresent. That is to say, the truth that is in the rock on this world is the same truth that is in a rock on the other side of the universe on another world. Thus, truth is present everywhere at all times in this universe (Indeed, Science would be extremely difficult, to put it very mildly, if this uniformity of truth were not so). It has also been scientifically proven, by quantum non-locality, that whenever something becomes physically "true” (wave collapse of entangled electron, photon) in any part of the universe, this “truth” is instantaneously communicated anywhere/everywhere in the universe to its corresponding "particle". Thus, truth is “aware” of everything that goes on in the universe instantaneously. This universal instantaneous awareness of a transcendent truth also gives truth the vital characteristic of being omniscient (All knowing). This instantaneous communication of truth to all points in the universe also happens to defy the speed of light; a “truth” that energy and even the unchanging force of gravity happen to be subject to (I believe all fundamental forces are shown to be subject to this "truth' of the speed of light). This scientific proof of quantum non-locality also proves that truth is not a “passive” component of this universe. Truth is actually scientifically demonstrated, by quantum non-locality and quantum teleportation, to be the “active” dominant component of this universe. Thus, truth is not a passive set of rules written on a sheet of paper somewhere. Truth is the “living governor” of this universe that has dominion over all other components of this universe and is not bound by any of the laws that "truth" has subjected all the other components of the universe to. Truth is in fact a tangible entity that enables and dictates our reality in this universe to exist in a overarching non-chaotic form so as to enable life to exist (Anthropic Principle). Truth, which is shown not to be subject to time in any way by quantum non-locality, has demonstrated foresight and purpose in the Anthropic Principle for this temporal universe and, as such, can be said to be "alive" from the fact that a "decision" had to be made from the timeless/spaceless dimension, that truth inhabits, in order for this temporal reality to become real in the first place. i.e. truth is a major characteristic of the necessary Being, "uncaused cause", the Alpha, that created all reality/realities. The fact that quantum teleportation shows an exact "specified dominion" of a photon energy by "a truth" (actually truth is shown to be "a specified truth of infinite information" in teleportation) satisfies a major requirement for the entity needed to explain the "missing Dark Matter" in that the needed explanation would have to dominate energy in just such a similar fashion, as is demonstrated by teleportation, to satisfy what is needed to explain the missing dark matter. Moreover, that a photon would actually be destroyed upon the teleportation of its truth (infinite specified information) to another photon, is a direct controlled violation of the first law of thermodynamics. This is direct empirical validation for the law of conservation of information since a truth exercised dominion of a photon of energy which cannot be created or destroyed by any known material means, and provides another primary evidence that "The Truth" is the foundational entity of this universe (i.e. "The Truth" cannot be created or destroyed). The fact that simple quantum entanglement shows a "coherent long-range universal control" of energy, by "a truth", satisfies a major requirement for the entity which must explain why the universe is expanding at such a finely-tuned degree in such a manner as it is. Thus "transcendent eternal truth" provides a coherent picture of reality that could possibly unify all of physics upon further elucidation. Well, lets see what we have so far; Truth is eternal (it has always existed and will always exist); Truth is omnipresent (it is present everywhere in the universe at all times); Truth is omnipotent (it has dominion over everything else in the universe, yet is not subject to any physical laws); Truth has a vital characteristic of omniscience (truth is apparently aware of everything that is happening in the universe); Truth is active (it is aware of everything that is happening and instantaneously makes appropriate adjustments); and Truth is alive (Truth has created a temporal universe from a reality that is not subject to any physical laws of time or space (transcendent of time and space) for the express purpose of creating life; Anthropic Principle) Surprisingly, being eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient. active and alive are the foundational characteristics that are used by theologians to describe God. Thus, logically speaking, spiritual/transcendent truth emanates directly from God. So in answer to our question “What is Truth?” we can answer that truth comes from God as far as the scientific method is concerned. Now to bring this into the focus of the Christian perspective, Jesus says that He is “The Truth”. In regards to what is currently revealed in our scientific knowledge, this is a VERY, VERY fantastic claim! If Jesus is speaking a truth, which I believe He is from the personal miracles I’ve seen in my own life, then by the rules of logic this makes Jesus exactly equivalent to God Almighty as far as the creation and sustaining of our current reality is concerned. Well,,, Is Jesus the author of this universe and all life in it??? Though this is somewhat difficult to bear out scientifically, there actually is strong scientific evidence that gives persuasive indication that this is so,, i.e. that Christ is God. The Center Of The Universe Is Life - General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics and The Shroud Of Turin - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5070355 Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." As well a very strong case can be made that Jesus is Lord since all the foundational truths in what could be termed the "transcendent" philosophy of human character and behavior (i.e. Love your neighbor as yourself, Don't bear false witness etc..etc..), have all found their ultimate authority and expression in Jesus Christ life. i.e. by His "sinless life" and by His resurrection from the dead he has set the standard for "righteousness" and has indeed testified to "philosophical truth's" primacy and authority over this material realm. Plus, I find extreme poetic justice in the fact Jesus has overcome death and entropy by leading a totally sinless, and thus in essence a totally decay-free, life. I also find it extremely poetic, and even logical, that we too can escape death and decay by accepting this “living eternal truth” of Jesus atoning sacrifice into our hearts. Myself, I find the overall pattern of evidence that Jesus is Lord of heaven and earth to be overwhelmingly compelling as well as a source of great Joy. John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— Kutless: Promise of a Lifetime - Live http://www.tangle.com/view_video?viewkey=9a0f47fa6c2b35a1a968 bornagain77
Would it generate truth out of falsehood? or out of nothingness? Ilion
If we just had an operational definition of true and false we could. And I could create a computer program to generate truth. Mung
There is a fact of the matter that most people either do not understand or refuse to understand, and that is that 'science', by its very nature, does not and cannot deliver us truth ... about anything. (*) Therefore, in any possible dispute between "science" (that is, claims asserted by fetishists of scientism, In The Name Of 'Science!') and "religion", the "religionists" are fully justified in ignoring, as being unknowable or irrelevant, the claims asserted by the scientism fetishists. (*) Any given scientific pronouncement may be true or may be false, but there is no way to know scientifically which is the case. Ilion

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