Breaking: 46% of Americans still believe God created man, woman

jerad. Tests mean little. Results are the score of a civilization and the world knows the winners and losers. They come to the winners. Tests of yAnks include demographics of less able peoples and immigrants. Not a true score. anyways tests are for kids and achievement is for men and results. it was a american century and not a european one or close. its been a anglo-American moral and intellectual domination for centuries now. therefore it would be more sharp about error and truth in subjects like origins which are based on evidence and a sharp thinking dealing with it. Robert Byers

Gregory. your just plain wrong and not doing the math. Creationism is so popular here that despite any claims of having lesser educated people it STIL has hugh chunks of very educated and/or intelligent people. so many it dwarfs whole European nations who you are using to make a point about smart folks verses creationist acceptance. Evangelical Christians are solidly middle clas/upper middle class and solidly teached and degree-ed If you are scoring smarts then one is scoring smarts. your scoring North americans and white christian and republicans and so as not as intelligent and so more creationist. Monkey see monkey do. I score North americans aa more intelligent, and didn't get into closer demographics, and THEN you accuse me of being this or that. I await the jury's results. If creationism/evolutionism is related to intelligence then it would follow the more intelligent would be less holding the wrong ideas especially after hearing the case. A win for creationism because we are historically and still more intelligent then the rest of the world. i do think however if Europeans or anyone heard the creationist case they would also come over to our side in some percentages. i'm sure many european immigrants here, i know many in toronto, easily become creationists after getting the facts. Robert Byers

Robert,

Europe has come up since WW11 but still is behind the spirit and sharpness of North american intellectual life. I see it that way and many do.

Interesting then that Americans in particular are falling behind European countries on standardised test scores in math and science. I guess you're drawing a distinction between intelligence and education but you're sounding increasingly myopic and xenophobic without any good, solid evidence to bolster your opinion. Jerad

If we're scoring, we're scoring. You wrote: "If your scoring your scoring." You fail because "you're" is the proper term. What's you're linguistic challenge, Byers? If you're Canadian and pretend to such high intelligence, it's even worse than I thought. I'm Canadian too and don't pretend to such an arrogant position as you (and Talcott Parsons). Shame on you!! But you don't seem to care about reality or appearance in your words, Robert. 'Creationism' is prevalent in the most uneducated peoples. Can you not face the reality of the numbers on this? Claiming to be an underdog hero for the lowest denominator seems unworthy, especially since it displays total ignorance of progress in natural sciences. There are in really very few 'healthy numbers' in 'creationism'. Creationism is a dying ideology by global figures and deserves to do the way of flat-earthism. "educated types simply more accept evolution" - Robert I'm glad you accept this reality among societies. Your 'so many creationists' is myopic, most probably demonstrating a white, Protestant, weekly-church-going, Republican USA prejudice. Do tell how any of this doesn't represent you if that is true. "tHere are so many creationists here that it would dwarf whole populations of European nations" - Byers And pigs are more beautiful than Playboy models! So what? Gregory

Gregory If your scoring your scoring. If your scoring levels of education and so on then the premise is that identity matters. It does. Of coarse North America (I'm Canadian) is historically and still a more intelligent and independent civilization. Always we have said this. Its presumed. In Europe the least educated would be the most submissive to authority. Here otherwise. Yet education is not the all of intelligence. anyways YEC creationism is popular in very middle class well educated circles. its a minority indeed and its the others who add to creationist healthy numbers. Europe has come up since WW11 but still is behind the spirit and sharpness of North american intellectual life. I see it that way and many do. yes one can score identity. I say the more intelligent peoples will more oppose error or more easily be persuaded to see error. Origin issues are case in point. again educated types simply more accept evolution because of greater confidence in those behind it. NOT because they have put their minds too it. tHere are so many creationists here that it would dwarf whole populations of European nations and with well educated folks. if that matters. Numbers here are telling. Robert Byers

Robert,

They need to hear the creationist case as they do not have a Christian faith that opposes it and just not as sharp as north Americans as history in our time shows. they go along with any error and then go along with correcting any error. Like they are not as reflective as the Anglo American civilization. If evolution was wrong it would logically follow that the more intelligent civilization would of been most resistant and most quick to see through it. I always would presume we got it right faster because we get everything right faster. We are more intelligent and more independent in our thinking.

Well, you are cetainly entitled to your opinion. I'm afraid I cannot agree with you that American cuture is more reflective or intelligent or that you get things right faster. Jerad

"the more intelligent civilization" / "We are more intelligent and more independent in our thinking." - Byers Such a blunt example of the ideology promoted by Talcott Parsons: the U.S.A. is the 'most evolved' nation in the history of the world, the smartest and the best. You know that must be true, huh, Robert? Have you ever been to Yurope to suggest "All that is taught in Europe is evolution"? I live in Yurope now and I see other things than evolution being taught. Of course, since such statements are mere opinions of yours, the desire for you to seek truth is irrelevant, right, and you need not be held accountable to/for anything you say? "the christian foundation and general intelligence of North Americans frustrates evolution acceptance." - Byers If you check the survey data based on level of education, Robert, you'll see it is the lowest educated U.S. citizens who reject evolutionary biology, not the highest educated. How do you square that circle? What most "frustrates evolution acceptance," according to the numbers, is lack of education. Another feature of the survey, higher education means more likely to accept TE/EC - "Humans evolved, God guided process". Again, does Byers stick his head in the sand of disconfirmation bias at the survey numbers? It is high school educated or less, weekly church-going Republicans in the U.S.A. who are most likely to reject biological evolution and believe in a 'young Earth' against the scientific evidence. Robert is behaving more than a bit like Dostoevsky's 'underground man' in his defense of YEC-ID. It does not reflect well on ID, but hey, it's a wide tent! Gregory

Jerad All that is taught in Europe is evolution. its like in the the old soviet home all that was taught was marxism. They need to hear the creationist case as they do not have a Christian faith that opposes it and just not as sharp as north Americans as history in our time shows. they go along with any error and then go along with correcting any error. Like they are not as reflective as the Anglo American civilization. If evolution was wrong it would logically follow that the more intelligent civilization would of been most resistant and most quick to see through it. I always would presume we got it right faster because we get everything right faster. We are more intelligent and more independent in our thinking. Also Evangelical Protestant faith and other faiths are very confident in the bible as the truth. Evolutionists have to work harder here and if evolution is false it follows they would fail in making their case. In europe they its another easy sell like other sells every now and then. Robert Byers

Barb, I said that was a common view held by Europeans. And no, living in Europe I can tell you there is no evolution indoctrination. Darwin is on the UK's 10 pound not because he is a famous and respected scientist that they proudly call their own. But respect for evolutionary theory is Europe wide, especially in the Scandinavian countries. Jerad

Jerad, when you indicate that people in Europe wonder why Americans find evolution controversial, you state that Americans may have been indoctrinated to deny it. Don't you think that Europeans raised in secular societies have also been indoctrinated to believe it? Barb

Robert, You may be right. But many people in Europe find it hard to understand why evolutionary theory is controversial in the USA. There is no indoctrination, even the Archbishop of Canterbury thinks human beings are primates. They think that many Americans must have been indoctrinated to deny evolution. Evolution is not going to fall. Time we all learned to get along I think. Jerad

this figure is more impressive when one sees a present lock on what everyone is taught about human origins. Every story presumes evolution and all education and still half say no and seemly only a few thousands years have we been around. One can expand this percentage if one could bring creationism to the public in equal or just enough attention. I think evolutionists and the establishment know this and it makes them fanatical about laws and spirit of censorship. Like old Canaan they are afraid us. the christian foundation and general intelligence of North Americans frustrates evolution acceptance. the others who accept simply accept is from experts. they don't know anything but what they accept as authority. in our time evolution will fall as it is false. Time has come today. Robert Byers

I was just thinking that maybe more ID proponents might have been harder for the judge to disregard. Especially people like Dr Dembski. I don't understand the legal aspects of why some stayed away but I really admired Dr Behe for putting his name and reputation on the line. Jerad

The judge did not ignore the testimony of Dr. Steve Fuller expert in history, philosophy and sociology of science (an improvement upon M. Ruse). Several IDM-IDers balked to testify on political-legal grounds. But Fuller came through. My mistake, I was using the term 'IDers' out of respect, but Joe has reminded that IDists is a self-label people in the IDM readily accept. Re: #2 in this thread, maybe there will be YEC-PRIDE parades sometime soon? With a rainbow flag to symbolise a young earth? Gregory

Jerad- The judge ignored the IDists who did testify. So no, it would not have made a difference. Joe

Jerad wrote: "Do you think it would have made a difference if more prominent ID proponents had showed up in Dover?" No. Read the book "Traipsing Into Evolution" and you will see that Jones' ruling had nothing to do with proper jurisprudence or careful weighing of the evidence before him. It is clear that Judge Jones is not a man bound by the limits of the authority he has been given. He seems to have been religiously (or rather anti-religiously) motivated, or perhaps he desires the approval of men, or he wanted to make a name for himself. cantor

. . . zero court-enforced Darwin claptrap.

Do you think it would have made a difference if more prominent ID proponents had showed up in Dover? Jerad

I'm a proud YEC, and unless any evidence is shown to prove my beliefs are false, I see no reason to abandon them for faith in the ability of blind, random chance (evolution) to create the wonders such as the eye/vision, respiratory systems, DNA repair, etc. If it were ever proven they did evolve, I would easily accept it because it would not negate my faith in God. I believe God is love and truth, so if something is shown to be true, I would not be following God by denying it. I have nothing to lose...but atheists have everything to lose if they had to admit common ancestry evolution without an intelligent designer is not likely, which is why they don't like people pointing out the many problems with their "theory" Shhhhhh ;-) Blue_Savannah

The creationist view is that God created everything (except God). Mung