Darwinian indoctrination required at UCSD? Or will the other side be heard someday?

Just noticed this snippet from Luskin's new post:

"Final Note: Did All Freshmen Have to Attend? Finally, there have been questions as to whether all freshmen were actually required to attend. UCSD is composed of 6 undergraduate colleges, and one page suggested only students from "Sixth College" had to attend. If that is the case then 1/6 of all freshmen would still have to attend. But the day of the event, the main student website at UCSD, Tritonlink, clearly stated that all UCSD freshmen have to attend. The website read, "All first-quarter freshmen are required to attend the event" (see here for a screen shot). To clear up any ambiguity, I called a friend who knows UCSD students and found that they had confirmed with an undergraduate that Pennock’s lecture was indeed mandatory for all freshmen. That seems to settle this question firmly. Perhaps there is the remote chance that both the main UCSD student website and this undergraduate were wrong. Where does this leave us? This doesn’t change the fact that the main UCSD student website still posted the notice that “All first-quarter freshmen are required to attend the event” (emphasis added). From the reports I have been told, RIMAC, a venue that holds about 5000, was packed with students. I seriously doubt that such a large number of students were dying to attend Pennock's lecture on a Tuesday night. It still appears that thousands of freshmen attended this ID-bashing lecture, thinking they were required to do so."

JasonTheGreek

Final note for now- notice Moran's website is named after the path that leads behind Darwin's house. Anyone else notice the almost saint-like status ol' Charles gets with some people- especially the hyper-atheists who go out of their way to attack religion and the religious? You have to wonder if some of these people have shrines to Charlie in their homes? Altars maybe? Big life-sized paintings of him above their fireplaces? Their beds maybe? Welcome mats adorned with his photo? Their love for the man and his ideas is just too weird for me. JasonTheGreek

By the way- this Larry Moran guy is a joke. So sad to see our colleges have become playgrounds for name-calling adults who seem to be stuck in childhood. Notice on his blog how he calls ID supporters "IDiots" (what class from a univ. professor!) Anyone interested in starting a campaign to boycott his textbooks? I think it's about time to demand that professionals act PROFESSIONAL. Moran is a key example of professionals acting like playground bullies who intimidate others into walking in step with their worldview or else. JasonTheGreek

Wintermute said: "You are also correct in verifying that the statement “University of California, San Diego Forces All Freshmen To Attend Anti-ID Lecture” is wrong." Weird. Nowhere do I see Jehu verifying any such thing. Maybe that was a comment that somehow got deleted, or maybe he never said what is claimed? Culture and art aren't science related, are they? I'd tend to think that this is indoctrination, as such a speech would have nothing to do with the majors involved with these departments. JasonTheGreek

Jehu, you are correct that the size of the UCSD freshman class is lower than 21,203. That was actually the number admitted, not enrolled. I made a mistake, and I admit it. You are also correct in verifying that the statement "University of California, San Diego Forces All Freshmen To Attend Anti-ID Lecture" is wrong. I wonder if Luskin will admit it? As of now, the web page still contains that gross mistatement. Wintermute

Wintermute,

“University of California, San Diego Forces All Freshmen To Attend Anti-ID Lecture” UCSD admitted 21,305 freshmen for the Fall 2006 and Winter 2007 quarters. http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/general/fr_admissions06.asp If Mr Luskin were correct, that’d be quite a lecture hall. In other words, he was incorrect.

Actually, it is you who are completely wrong. UCSD does not have 21,305 incoming freshmen. That would be a complete joke. The total student popultation is 26,876. Is UCSD 80% freshmen? Secondly, Pennock is not speaking in a lecture hall, he is speaking at RIMAC Arena. That is where they have basketball games and rock concerts with musicians like Lenny Kravitz. So you can't intuitevly know based on the size of the freshman class and the hall that the TritonLink web page is not accurate. In fact, the event is sponsored by Student Affairs at Sixth College and freshmen taking the culture, art, and technology core curriculum from that college are in fact required to attend. Jehu

Wintermute, perhaps my memory is going fuzzy but I thought you had been banned previously. Sorry if that wasn't the case. Even if I disagree with a comment I won't block it as long as the comment is on topic and doesn't contain any foul language, etc. If it's relevant information from a banned user I'll post the information myself (I did that with the topic where Myers was accused of lying). So I'm not purposely cherry-picking which comments are allowed through on the basis of content, only on whether the person is banned (which is getting hard to keep track of). On a side note, the mods are working on a system to keep track of banned users so there won't be mixups. Patrick

There is no other side on this issue. It's either Darwinian totalism or the dark ages. Any preference? ......(Silence)..... I thought so! "Scandalous" Mats Mats

If anyone hears of something like this going on at a New England university please post it. I will do everything that I can to attend. And I will not just sit there and take it. As for Larry Moran, I posted on his blog and will soon see what he has. Guys like that would have flunked Newton, Galileo and Kepler... Joseph

Patrick Oh heck no I didn't ban Larry. He's like having PZ Myers here. When you get a horse's ass patoot that big representing the chance worshippers you have to treat him like gold so he doesn't go away. DaveScot

Patrick, perhaps I misunderstood the phrase "all freshmen", and took it to mean all freshmen. I see how comments on this blog are cherrypicked. "A recent deleted comment" and "Another deleted comment" are quote-mined, but not allowed to stand on their own. What Would Jesus Delete? Wintermute

A recent deleted comment stated this:

In truth, the only students required to attend the lecture were those freshman taking the Culture, Art, and Technology (CAT) core sequence in UCSD’s Sixth College: https://tritonlink.ucsd.edu/portal/site/tritonlink-preview/menuitem.b4448692267a11256ec5e210514b01ca?storyID=21032

Another deleted comment was from a a professor of biochemistry at the University of Toronto who stated that in the case of the 40% of the freshman class which rejected Darwinism the college "should not have required their uneducated students to attend remedial classes. Instead, they should never have admitted them in the first place. Having made that mistake, it's hopeless to expect that a single lecture—even one by a distinguished scholar like Robert Pennock—will have any effect. The University should just flunk the lot of them and make room for smart students who have a chance of benefiting from a high quality education." I only quote that just to show the type of response some ID opponents consider "reasonable". And this is from a professor--I won't quote the other lovely comments I deleted from the filter earlier today. EDIT: I see you were looking at the filter at the same time I was, Dave. Too bad Larry isn't a rare case. I'm assuming that although you approved that one comment he's now banned? Patrick

Larry Moran Nice Larry. When Darwinian mysticism has friends like you it hardly needs enemies. Keep up the good work. I encourage everyone to go read this whackjob's blog. I thought it was a joke at first but he's serious about barring university admittance to any kid who won't first swear an oath of fealty to the Church of Darwin. DaveScot

See the latest antiDarwinist bumper sticker? "MY DAUGHTER KNOWS WHO TREVORS AND ABEL ARE, YOURS DOESN'T" platolives

Any student in this indoc class who cites the UCSD/IDEA researchers essay "Information Theory:Finding the Immaterial Properties of Life" would create some difficulties for the lecturer. I ran across this essay at the UCSD/IDEA site and cited it in my "Teleology" precise at ResearchID.Org. It is truly a good, refreshing read since its propositions are irrefutible. Further, I believe Trevors' and Abel's 2006 paper has made Darwinism an "elephant on stilts." "Information, thought recorded on matter, always exists for the sake of some goal or end." Eric Peterson platolives

I've got a better idea. Why not just flunk the IDiots? Larry Moran

What would be interesting is if there was a student who was well-versed in ID who attended the lecture and stood up to correct any misrepresentations... Joseph

Some people (previously banned) whose comments were in the filter are saying that your claims aren’t accurate. What they meant by this they didn’t say but I thought I’d let you know so you could look into this further and doublecheck for accuracy.

Well, the source is the TritonLink, the UCSD student's web site. If you follow the link provided by Sal you can see a screen shot of the web page stating the lecture is mandatory for first quarter freshmen. So I can only wonder what the banned posters were blathering about. Jehu

"University of California, San Diego Forces All Freshmen To Attend Anti-ID Lecture" UCSD admitted 21,305 freshmen for the Fall 2006 and Winter 2007 quarters. http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/general/fr_admissions06.asp If Mr Luskin were correct, that'd be quite a lecture hall. In other words, he was incorrect. Wintermute

Sal, Some people (previously banned) whose comments were in the filter are saying that your claims aren't accurate. What they meant by this they didn't say but I thought I'd let you know so you could look into this further and doublecheck for accuracy. Patrick

They're running scared. That's the main lesson to be learned from this. TomG

What this demonstrates, of course, is that there are serious evidential and logical problems with the theory, so it must be propped up with indoctrination in order to promote materialistic philosophy. Phillip Johnson notes at the close of Darwin On Trial:

Darwinian evolution with its blind watchmaker thesis makes me think of a great battleship on the ocean of reality. Its sides are heavily armored with philosophical barriers to criticism, and its decks are stacked with big rhetorical guns ready to intimidate any would-be attackers. In appearance, it is as impregnable as the Soviet Union seemed to be only a few years ago. But the ship has sprung a metaphysical leak, and the more perceptive of the ship's officers have begun to sense that all the ship's firepower cannot save it if the leak is not plugged. There will be heroic efforts to save the ship, of course, and some plausible rescuers will invite the officers to take refuge in electronic lifeboats equipped with high-tech gear like autocatalytic sets and computer models of self-organizing systems. The spectacle will be fascinating, and the battle will go on for a long time. But in the end reality will win.

GilDodgen

If I were a student, I'd protest and Sit-Out Such Learning of Indoctrinational Education Systems based upon the old Sovietski Centers of United Management. Michaels7

Tmundie, So you're in favor of FORCING the freshmen students to learn ID from ID proponents as well? Afterall, in the spirit of critical thinking from ALL SIDES and what not. Evolutionist are getting very desperate these days. Michaels7

Well more often than not every event has it's share of unintended consequences. I think this would give the Darwinists' more support in terms of numbers, but it should have the side effect of polarizing the student body. WinglesS

I guess I see this a little different. Critical thinking is developed when one has to examine all sides of an issue. Critical thinking is developed when one has to conceptualize, analyze, synthesize, and/or evaluating information from all sides of an issue. A couple years ago a whole class at West Point was required to attend a lecture by Al Franken. As you can imagine the student body at West Point is, on average, a fairly conservative group. Many cadet were outraged that they had to attend (although it was quite humerous). I told them it was good for them and asked them to articulate what and why they disagreed with. Yes, many college student reject naturalistic evolution, but I would guess that most of them cannot articulate why beyond, "I just don't believe in it." While the motives of the UCSD may not be good, the students will benefit. Maybe it will drive them to do some research to determine why they don't agree with Pennock. tmundie

I don't see why this is surprising given the sorts of things I have read over other forms of indoctrination. But I agree, it will probably be a good thing and will backfire. I'm not sure how they can claim there is no controversy over NDE and then do something like this. Reminds me more than a little of their being no controversy over Geocentrism a few centuries ago. But that must just be a coincidence ;) jwrennie

That mandatory lecture may be a good thing for ID. The 40% of freshman will most likely not be affected by the rhetoric, but the other 60% Darwinians et.al. will now become more aware of the controversy. Once they now, out of awareness & curiosity, read the ID literature, it will draw in more support from the 60% than it push away and solidify any existing Darwinian belief. Consider the lecture free-advertisement. JGuy

Welcome to the Union of Soviet Socialist America Borne

This should be listed under 'Things evolutionists do to help ID'. You could hardly get a better demonstration of Darwinist indoctrination/ attempts at censorship. Nothing to see folks. No controvesy here. StephenA

This is ridiculous! Forcing them to go, c'mon now... I guess this is a good sign that people are rejectin NDE when they are forced to listen to it. I'd be pissed even if I was a supporter of this fairy tale if I HAD TO ATTEND jpark320