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Darwinists Tie Themselves Into Knots Denying the Obvious

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Some Darwinists will say anything to try to draw attention away from the obvious.  The point of my “Scientific Certitude” post was to show that evolutionary theory has been used to support racist views.  Darwin was a firmly committed racist, and he was not shy about expressing his racist views:

 

“At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world.  At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated.  The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.”  Charles R. Darwin, The Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex, 2nd ed. (1871; reprint, London: John Murray, 1922), 241-42.

 

While Darwin was still alive his contemporaries took his racism/evolution link and ran with it.  For example, Ernst Haeckl, the great popularizer of Darwin’s theories on the continent wrote:

 

“The Caucasian, or Mediterranean man (Homo Mediterraneus), has from time immemorial been placed at the head of all races of men, as the most highly developed and perfect . . . In bodily as well as in mental qualities, no other human species can equal the Mediterranean.  This species alone (with the exception of the Mongolian) has had an actual history; it alone has attained to that degree of civilization which seems to raise man above the rest of nature.”  Ernst Haeckel, The History of Creation: Or The Development of the Earth and its Inhabitants by the Action of Natural Causes. A Popular Exposition of the Doctrine of Evolution in General, and of that of Darwin, Goethe, and Lamarck in Particular, translated by E. Ray Lankester, 6th English ed., First German Publication 1868, (New York: D. Appleton & Co., 1914), 2:321

 

and

 

“If one must draw a sharp boundary between them [i.e., higher mammals and man], it has to be drawn between the most highly developed and civilized man on the one hand, and the rudest savages on the other, and the latter have to be classed with the animals.”  Haeckel, Ibid., Vol. II, 365.

 

Or how about this from Darwin’s friend Huxley:

 

“No rational man, cognizant of the facts, believes that the average negro is the equal, still less the superior, of the white man. And if this be true, it is simply incredible that, when all his disabilities are removed, and our prognathous relative has a fair field and no favour, as well as no oppressor, he will be able to compete successfully with his bigger-brained and smaller-jawed rival, in a contest which is to be carried out by thoughts and not by bites.”  T.H. Huxley, Lectures and Lay Sermons (1871; reprint, London: Everyman’s Library, J.M. Dent, 1926), 115. 

 

The point of my earlier post was that by the turn of the 20th century the link between racism and evolution was so entrenched in orthodox thought that it made it into the Encyclopedia Britannica, which some would say is the very epitome of current conventional learning.

 

The link continued to be made well into the 20th Century:

 

“The new creed [i.e., Christianity] was thus thrown open to all mankind.  Christianity makes no distinction of race or of color; it seeks to break down all racial barriers.  In this respect the hand of Christianity is against that of Nature, for are not the races of mankind the evolutionary harvest which Nature has toiled through long ages to produce?  May we not say, then, that Christianity is anti evolutionary in its aim?”  Arthur Keith, Evolution and Ethics (New York: Van Rees Press, 1947), 72

 

Evolutionists, when they are being honest, admit this link:

 

“We cannot understand much of the history of late 19th and early 20th century anthropology, with its plethora of taxonomic names proposed for nearly every scrap of fossil bone, unless we appreciate its obsession with the identification and ranking of races.  For many schemes of classification sought to tag the various fossils as ancestors of modern races and to use their relative age and apishness as a criterion for racial superiority.”  Stephen Jay Gould, “Human Equality as a Contingent Factor of History,” Natural History (November 1984): 28, 26-32.

 

“Since Darwin’s death, all has not been rosy in the evolutionary garden.  The theories of the Great Bearded One have been hijacked by cranks, politicians, social reformers – and scientists – to support racist and bigoted views.”  M. Brookes, “Ripe Old Age,” review of Of Flies, Mice and Men, by Francois Jacob, New Scientist, January 1999, 41.

 

The Darwinists who responded to my previous post were not honest.  Instead of facing the facts, they tried to deny the undeniable connection between Darwin and racism, or they tried to change the subject by saying, “hey, some people who say they are Christians are racists too.” 

 

This would be amusing if it were not so tragic.  Someone said, “There is none so blind as he who refuses to see.” 

 

This is the bottom line: 

 

(1) It takes only the tiniest step to go from Darwin’s theory to the conclusion that some races are “lower” than others.  Darwin took that step himself; his contemporaries took it with him, and by the turn of the 20th Century it was “conventional wisdom.”  Note to Darwinists:  Them’s the facts; you don’t advance your cause by denying them.

 

(2) Nothing Jesus said gives the slightest credence to racist views.  Therefore, racists who call themselves Christians hold their views in the very teeth of the teachings of the Christ they purport to follow.  So Darwinists.  What is your point?  That some people – even some people who call themselves “Christian” – are stupid or evil or both?  No one denies that.  Sadly for your position, this does notthing to blunt the force of (1) above. 

Comments
Ray, the world is not split into "true Christians" and atheists. I've studied with several ID-friendly Othodox rabbis who would easily agree with David Kellogg's position on the NT. ;-p According to the NT itself, what Jesus wrote, he wrote in the dust.Pendulum
March 16, 2009
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There is no mention of racial inferiority anywhere in the Neo-Darwinian synthesis of evolution. Secondly, any opinions held regarding social policy of past evolutionary biologists are irrelevant to the discussion to the Neo-Darwinian synthesis. I never see the final conclusion of the theory of gravity being discussed. You know, dropping heavy objects on inferior people's heads....eligoodwin
March 16, 2009
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Allen_MacNeill:While Hitler uses the word “evolution” in Mein Kampf, it is clear that he is not referring to Darwin’s theory. Hitler called his book "my struggle" partly because he equated his fight with a Darwinian struggle for survival. In fact, a look at his writings reveals his sentiments on the subject to be those of an orthodox creationist. This claims falls to the level of claims made by Holocaust deniers. Any reader interested in the truth need only research Nazi attitudes to the Confessional Church and their attempts to eliminate the "Jewish influence" from Christianity, including the Jewish creation narrative. A historical example:
Grundmann’s continuous efforts to obtain the permission for a periodical were treated in a dilatory way, and an internal note of the Propaganda Ministry gave the following reasons for this attitude: The endeavors of this organization and its leading men such as Prof. Grundmann are well meant. But there is no interest either in assimilating (angleichen) Christian teaching in national socialism or in proving that a re-shaped (umgestaltetes) Christianity is not fundamentally Jewish (keine judische Grundhaltung aufweist). On a specific occasion, even a more negative attitude was revealed. When several persons of the Ministry of Propaganda were invited to a meeting of the Institute in Berlin on January 15, 1942, at which Professors Grundmann and Werdermann were to lecture, a high official of the Ministry noted in pencil on the invitation: ‘If such lectures at present are considered desirable at all, they should be watched.’ Another of Goebbels’ officials contemplated asking the Party Chancellery, i.e., the supreme authority of the Party, for a decision on how to treat the Jena Institute, but whether such a request was ever made is not known. (Hitler's Professors: The Part of Scholarship in Germany's Crimes Against the Jewish People By Max Weinreich (New York:The Yiddish Scientific Institute, 1946) : 67)
The Nazis generally viewed the entire Old Testament as the work of "wandering nomads," "ignorant shepherds" and so on based on the mythologies of progress that have been typical to hypotheses of evolution. Their attitudes stand in stark contrast to the claims typical to "orthodox creationists" who support the Jewish creation narrative and generally believe the Old Testament and so on. Allen MacNeill's claims seem to rest on ignorance, I will try to correct more later before he begins claiming that the Nazis were actually all practicing Jews who firmly believed in the Jewish creation narrative (i.e. orthodox creationism).mynym
March 16, 2009
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Prof. MacNeill: If you started publishing research into the evolution of racial differences that indicated heretofor undiscovered, yet significant important differences between racial groups (i.e. intelligence differences), would your University job be at risk? Assume no tenure if you are tenured. My point is that if evolutionary theory does indeed lend support to racist theories, then we probably wouldn't hear about it. Wouldn't embarrassing results be suppressed and those who ventured to explore them be censured? I'm thinking of the president of Harvard University who lost his job for suggesting that male-female differences might account for differential performance in math and science. If his suggestion was right, we will never hear it from an academic source. The same with racist theories based on a Darwinian model. Disclaimer: I don't subscribe to racist ideology. But I think Darwinism fits better with racism than design theory or creationism.russ
March 16, 2009
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David Kellogg (#59): "So I’ve engaged sympathetically with a lot of that material, as well as with more “liberal” scholarship such as that of Bart Ehrman, John Dominic Crossan, and others. Since both of these guys are Darwinists their conclusions concerning the Bible, that is, the source for Creationsim-ID and supernaturalism, are obviously predetermined. RayR. Martinez
March 16, 2009
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David Kellogg (#18): "No. I said the Gospels were not based on anything Jesus had written (not at all the same as a forgery)." Since we already know that only Atheists say these types of things about their enemy (= the Bible), what is the point, David? RayR. Martinez
March 16, 2009
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Thanks for the replies. I see no conflict between competition and cooperation. Take behavior in flock species like wolves or chimpanzees. Cooperation is required for the success of flock or tribe, but competition within the flock is to a large extent responsible for the distribution pattern of genes When the living is easy nothing much happens but in times of hardship, shortage of food and other necessities it pays (payoff = reproduction) to be strong, aggressive, smart, more fit than average. IMHO, many of the problems of understanding evolutionary theory may be overcome only by doing some effort of one one’s own to figure out how it is supposed to work. That doesn’t mean one will be lead to believe in evolution, but it may at least be helpful in arriving at an understanding of what evolutionists are trying to say. It seems to me that critics of evolution sometimes overlook some of the more subtle aspects of the theory. WRT “The Selfish Gene”: Google is your best friend. I googled “the selfish gene” right now and as often is the case Wikipedia returned with what looks as a reasonable introduction to the subject. I wish you luck.Cabal
March 16, 2009
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Bone
I suggest you take a good look at the Nuremberg process, specifically the part where the documents reveal that the Nazis planned to corrupt and undo the church.
You may be intersted in what protestant pasors were thinking about Hitler in 1931 (the text is in German unfortunately). You will find it here: http://bs.cyty.com/kirche-von-unten/archiv/gesch/Aufsaetze1931.htm According to the references quite some percentage of the pastors were appreciating Hitler, his nationalism and his anti-semitism. And haven't you seen those pictures of pastors greeting Hitler with the "Deutsche Gruß"? BTW, Did you ever hear about the ratline?sparc
March 16, 2009
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I am just amazed that people still think there was no connection between darwin and racism, or darwin and Hiter...Gould admits.. " Biological arguments for racism may have been common before 1859, but they increased by orders of magnitude following the acceptance of evolutionary theory." Stephen Jay Gould, 'Ontogeny and Phylogeny', Belknap-Harvard Press, pp. 27-128 and the link between Hitler and darwin is nothing new, and has been cited by many historians... The Darwin-Hitler connection is no recent discovery. In her classic 1951 work The Origins of Totalitarianism, Hannah Arendt wrote: “Underlying the Nazis’ belief in race laws as the expression of the law of nature in man, is Darwin’s idea of man as the product of a natural development which does not necessarily stop with the present species of human being.” The standard biographies of Hitler almost all point to the influence of Darwinism on their subject. In Hitler: A Study in Tyranny, Alan Bullock writes: “The basis of Hitler’s political beliefs was a crude Darwinism.” What Hitler found objectionable about Christianity was its rejection of Darwin’s theory: “Its teaching, he declared, was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle and the survival of the fittest.” John Toland’s Adolf Hitler: The Definitive Biography says this of Hitler’s Second Book published in 1928: “An essential of Hitler’s conclusions in this book was the conviction drawn from Darwin that might makes right.” In his biography, Hitler: 1889-1936: Hubris, Ian Kershaw explains that “crude social-Darwinism” gave Hitler “his entire political ‘world-view.’ ” Hitler, like lots of other Europeans and Americans of his day, saw Darwinism as offering a total picture of social reality. This view called “social Darwinism” is a logical extension of Darwinian evolutionary theory and was articulated by Darwin himself link Hitler was concerned with the master race...I don't see that in the bible..but of course in evolution, some races must be more 'fit' than others...and darwin was of course sure the caucasion race was the most fit..eugenics flows from evolution..it is nothing more than applied evolutiontsmith
March 16, 2009
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Hi Borne. I'm not sure what precisely is your objection in [57]. Your understanding of me is the thing that's flawed. I've never read the Da Vinci code, though I imagine it's a pretty terrible book. My understanding of the Bible comes from about 15 years as an evangelical and inerrantist. So I've engaged sympathetically with a lot of that material, as well as with more "liberal" scholarship such as that of Bart Ehrman, John Dominic Crossan, and others. That John did not write the gospel attributed to him by tradition is in line with most modern biblical scholarship.David Kellogg
March 16, 2009
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McNeill - you're still wandering around chasing your tail missing the point and responding with your usual ire. In short; basically just proving Arrington right. All your Hitler quotes? I suggest you take a good look at the Nuremberg process, specifically the part where the documents reveal that the Nazis planned to corrupt and undo the church.Borne
March 16, 2009
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DavidKellogs: Your ignorance of biblical history is appalling and seriously flawed. I'll bet that everything you learned in life about the bible and Christianity was gleaned from the fictional novel "The DaVinci Code" and your understanding of science from Star Trek.Borne
March 16, 2009
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Cabal, Cooperation rules life, not competetion. Competetion exists but to a much lesser degree than cooperation. Deers mate- even those who have "lost" some sort of competetion. Lions also mate- even those males who have been kicked out of their original pride. As for evolutionary biology- We don't even know what is responsible for the development of our eyes and vision system. And that means no one knows whether or not our eyes and vision system could have evolved via any mechanism. Evo-bio certainly hasn't provided any insight into our sight.Joseph
March 16, 2009
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Cabal, I have not read the selfish gene. Does Dawkins speak to my question above? BTW, my wife won't let me use a credit card on the net, and I can't get the book here in Taiwan. So its not that I am lazy to read. It just really is a pain in the arse for me really to get my hands on the books I want.Oramus
March 16, 2009
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Cabal, thank you for the response. Yet, the 'loser' in the fight will also propagate his genes, just not with that particular female he was fighting for. Will the progeny of the stronger lion or buck be better adapted than the progeny of the losing lion and buck? As well, a particular lion is a winner in one fight but a loser in another fight. Genetically, it seems both winners and losers win. How is that?Oramus
March 16, 2009
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Oramus: There is absolutely no competition happening in nature. It is an illusion, much more so than the supposed illusion of design Dawkins likes to trumpet.
How strange; I see competition everywhere around me. Lions: …when one or more new males oust the previous male(s) associated with a pride, the conqueror(s) often kill any existing young cubs, perhaps because females do not become fertile and receptive until their cubs mature or die. Whatever the reason, the outcome inevitably is competitive: his genes takes precedence. Another example: Deer bucks in the mating season spend all their energy assembling and protecting a ‘harem’ against competing males. At the end of the season he may be completely exhausted and ready to die – but his genes have been propagated, we must believe, to the detriment of his competitor’s genes. You may not agree much with Richard Dawkins but reading “The Selfish Gene” might be informative with respect to what reproductive competition is and how it works but you are of course free to disagree with him.Cabal
March 16, 2009
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Madsen, Scientifically, they are not the same, I'm sure. What I AM trying to say is that laserbeaming on individual organisms behaviour in particular leads to the wrong conclusions in general.Oramus
March 15, 2009
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I never understood the idea that there is a struggle for existence in nature. Animals live, procreate, and die. Where is the struggle? No matter what life in particular does, it never survives. No animal (except for humans maybe) tries to live longer. They just follow what their instincts tell them. Have turtles, sharks, bees increased their longevity over the millions of years? Struggle implies difficulty in attaining a goal. What organisms have difficulty in living? Is it because we focus on individual organisms? Some die instantly upon birth, some live the length of their biological calendar thus giving an 'appearance' of struggle?. If there was such a struggle for survival, we would not see old animals. Yet we KNOW comparatively elephants live old, as do turtle, gorillas, canines, just to name a few. Rather, I think we are mistakenly looking at life through an emotional lense, anthropomorphisizing biological phenomena. There's no competition, no struggle. Just life. Now. How am I gonna pay next month's mortgage? :)Oramus
March 15, 2009
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Hi TM, Thanks for the point on France.
Hitler made the same argument in Mein Kampf, that evolution should be allowed to take its natural course rather than arbitrarily control it by preventing births.
He did indeed. And he sounded very Descent Of Man-like when he did it. In addition to the Second Book quote on the subject, here's Hitler not mentioning Darwin in Mein Kampf:
"For as soon as the procreative faculty is thwarted and the number of births diminished, the natural struggle for existence which allows only healthy and strong individuals to survive is replaced by a sheer craze to ‘save’ feeble and even diseased creatures at any cost. And thus the seeds are sown for a human progeny which will become more and more miserable from one generation to another, as long as Nature’s will is scorned." — Adolf Hitler Source: Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Chapter 4.
Darwin:
Man, like every other animal, has no doubt advanced to his present high condition through a struggle for existence consequent on his rapid multiplication; and if he is to advance still higher, it is to be feared that he must remain subject to a severe struggle. Otherwise he would sink into indolence, and the more gifted men would not be more successful in the battle of life than the less gifted. Hence our natural rate of increase, though leading to many and obvious evils, must not be greatly diminished by any means."Chapter 21, DoM
Charlie
March 15, 2009
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Oramus,
Madsen, If you have trouble with the concept of kind, you oughta have even more trouble understanding what a species is. Oh, I dunno, I’ll give it a shot. Kinds: bacteria, insects, reptiles, fish, mammals.
Just to be clear, are you saying that humans, apes, rats, deer, and kangaroo are all of the same kind? (all being mammals)madsen
March 15, 2009
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Charlie, post 22: "If man wants to limit the number of births? on his own, without producing the terrible consequences which arise from birth control, he must give the? number of births free rein but cut down on the number of those remaining alive." Hitler argued this way primarily because France at the time was using a program of birth control to try and control evolution. Hitler made the same argument in Mein Kampf, that evolution should be allowed to take its natural course rather than arbitrarily control it by preventing births. I think though, that diatribe extends mainly from his hatred of France, lol. Hitler was above all, a nationalist. He used whatever methods he could to promote the German race, and it is worth noting that he found evolutionary ideas much more to his liking than Christian ones. You will never find him making the argument that the Jews should be exterminated because they crucified Christ and should be punished. The speech that was quoted earlier: http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/speeches/1922-04-12.html Hitler said that Christ expunged the Jews from the temple. Laughable compared to what Hitler wanted to do. Hitler then basically said that Christ died to oppose the Jews. Pretty tame considering the final solution Hitler had in mind. It's easy to see why he abandoned such rhetoric later on. This was 1922 after all, before he wrote Mein Kampf, and twenty years before the Final Solution. His thinking evolved quite a bit in that time period.tragic mishap
March 15, 2009
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Madsen, If you have trouble with the concept of kind, you oughta have even more trouble understanding what a species is. Oh, I dunno, I'll give it a shot. Kinds: bacteria, insects, reptiles, fish, mammals.Oramus
March 15, 2009
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Mikev6, dinosaurs are still with us: the shark, the elephant, the hippo, the gilo monster,Oramus
March 15, 2009
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Is it merely good fortune for Darwinist PR that some intermediary between ape and man no longer exists? Doesn't the theory make it quite possible that some race of inferior "humans" might still have existed had things turned out a bit differently? Would we be having this discussion if we found an isolated tribe in the jungle that actually was "inferior"? Or would this just advance the cause of animal rights (Hey, apes, subhumans, humans, we're all equal)?russ
March 15, 2009
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Oramus #41: 'kinds'? What's a 'kind'?madsen
March 15, 2009
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In #33, Oramus said:
The Dodo bird left us long ago. But birds are still here. The day ALL birds go extinct is the day nature starts to unravel and ALL of life goes extinct.
How long does this "unravelling" take? Dinosaurs have been extinct for 65 million years, and life is ticking along so far.mikev6
March 15, 2009
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I don't know if anyone else is having trouble with those links, but all my comments can be found under the post "Darwinists, just divorce racism. Get back to me when you have filed, okay …" starting at post #33.KRiS_Censored
March 15, 2009
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Madsen, yes I have. The concept of differential reproductive 'success' is meaningless. ALL organisms are reproductively successful. Whether varieties within a 'kind' of organism continue or not has no bearing on the survivability of the kind. I submit that if any kind of animal were to go extinct, nature would be in danger of imploding. Could life survive without insects, without trees, without bacteria, without birds? Evolution as maintenance man is conceivable. Evolution as architect is fantasy.Oramus
March 15, 2009
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Mapou The idea of superior and inferior do not follow from the theory of evolution but are imposed from the outside. Rather than go through the whole process of demonstrating this again, I refer you to my posts on another thread: here, here, here, here, and here. They tend toward greater abstraction as I'm forced to really distill the logical fallacy involved, since the rebuttals to my posts were generally a simple restating their position as if it were any more logically valid than before. Please post any rebuttals here, since I'm not really following that thread any longer.KRiS_Censored
March 15, 2009
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Mapou #38 No. As a Christian, I only believe in human spiritual superiority or inferiority. *** By comparison, Christians are taught that only 1/3 of Angelic spirits (yes, we do believe in non-human aliens) are bad.
Ok, thanks. My mistake.madsen
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