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Darwinists Tie Themselves Into Knots Denying the Obvious

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Some Darwinists will say anything to try to draw attention away from the obvious.  The point of my “Scientific Certitude” post was to show that evolutionary theory has been used to support racist views.  Darwin was a firmly committed racist, and he was not shy about expressing his racist views:

 

“At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world.  At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated.  The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.”  Charles R. Darwin, The Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex, 2nd ed. (1871; reprint, London: John Murray, 1922), 241-42.

 

While Darwin was still alive his contemporaries took his racism/evolution link and ran with it.  For example, Ernst Haeckl, the great popularizer of Darwin’s theories on the continent wrote:

 

“The Caucasian, or Mediterranean man (Homo Mediterraneus), has from time immemorial been placed at the head of all races of men, as the most highly developed and perfect . . . In bodily as well as in mental qualities, no other human species can equal the Mediterranean.  This species alone (with the exception of the Mongolian) has had an actual history; it alone has attained to that degree of civilization which seems to raise man above the rest of nature.”  Ernst Haeckel, The History of Creation: Or The Development of the Earth and its Inhabitants by the Action of Natural Causes. A Popular Exposition of the Doctrine of Evolution in General, and of that of Darwin, Goethe, and Lamarck in Particular, translated by E. Ray Lankester, 6th English ed., First German Publication 1868, (New York: D. Appleton & Co., 1914), 2:321

 

and

 

“If one must draw a sharp boundary between them [i.e., higher mammals and man], it has to be drawn between the most highly developed and civilized man on the one hand, and the rudest savages on the other, and the latter have to be classed with the animals.”  Haeckel, Ibid., Vol. II, 365.

 

Or how about this from Darwin’s friend Huxley:

 

“No rational man, cognizant of the facts, believes that the average negro is the equal, still less the superior, of the white man. And if this be true, it is simply incredible that, when all his disabilities are removed, and our prognathous relative has a fair field and no favour, as well as no oppressor, he will be able to compete successfully with his bigger-brained and smaller-jawed rival, in a contest which is to be carried out by thoughts and not by bites.”  T.H. Huxley, Lectures and Lay Sermons (1871; reprint, London: Everyman’s Library, J.M. Dent, 1926), 115. 

 

The point of my earlier post was that by the turn of the 20th century the link between racism and evolution was so entrenched in orthodox thought that it made it into the Encyclopedia Britannica, which some would say is the very epitome of current conventional learning.

 

The link continued to be made well into the 20th Century:

 

“The new creed [i.e., Christianity] was thus thrown open to all mankind.  Christianity makes no distinction of race or of color; it seeks to break down all racial barriers.  In this respect the hand of Christianity is against that of Nature, for are not the races of mankind the evolutionary harvest which Nature has toiled through long ages to produce?  May we not say, then, that Christianity is anti evolutionary in its aim?”  Arthur Keith, Evolution and Ethics (New York: Van Rees Press, 1947), 72

 

Evolutionists, when they are being honest, admit this link:

 

“We cannot understand much of the history of late 19th and early 20th century anthropology, with its plethora of taxonomic names proposed for nearly every scrap of fossil bone, unless we appreciate its obsession with the identification and ranking of races.  For many schemes of classification sought to tag the various fossils as ancestors of modern races and to use their relative age and apishness as a criterion for racial superiority.”  Stephen Jay Gould, “Human Equality as a Contingent Factor of History,” Natural History (November 1984): 28, 26-32.

 

“Since Darwin’s death, all has not been rosy in the evolutionary garden.  The theories of the Great Bearded One have been hijacked by cranks, politicians, social reformers – and scientists – to support racist and bigoted views.”  M. Brookes, “Ripe Old Age,” review of Of Flies, Mice and Men, by Francois Jacob, New Scientist, January 1999, 41.

 

The Darwinists who responded to my previous post were not honest.  Instead of facing the facts, they tried to deny the undeniable connection between Darwin and racism, or they tried to change the subject by saying, “hey, some people who say they are Christians are racists too.” 

 

This would be amusing if it were not so tragic.  Someone said, “There is none so blind as he who refuses to see.” 

 

This is the bottom line: 

 

(1) It takes only the tiniest step to go from Darwin’s theory to the conclusion that some races are “lower” than others.  Darwin took that step himself; his contemporaries took it with him, and by the turn of the 20th Century it was “conventional wisdom.”  Note to Darwinists:  Them’s the facts; you don’t advance your cause by denying them.

 

(2) Nothing Jesus said gives the slightest credence to racist views.  Therefore, racists who call themselves Christians hold their views in the very teeth of the teachings of the Christ they purport to follow.  So Darwinists.  What is your point?  That some people – even some people who call themselves “Christian” – are stupid or evil or both?  No one denies that.  Sadly for your position, this does notthing to blunt the force of (1) above. 

Comments
madsen @ 28:
Exactly what are you saying here? Many IDers accept at least “microevolution”, and some even accept “macroevolution”. Are you saying that these people must therefore believe in the superiority of one racial group over another?
No. As a Christian, I only believe in human spiritual superiority or inferiority. And that, only in terms of faith, not righteousness. Why? Because I believe what Paul wrote to the effect that all human spirits are defective (they've fallen short of the glory of God). You either have faith or you don't. There's nothing you can do about it and your genetic background will do you no good in this regard. This is the primary reason that Christians should not be racists. Heck we are not even allowed to judge other spirits, let alone the genetic makeup of the bodies they may inhabit. By comparison, Christians are taught that only 1/3 of Angelic spirits (yes, we do believe in non-human aliens) are bad.Mapou
March 15, 2009
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Hi Allen MacNeill,
you have agreed with Skell that a thorough knowledge of evolution is superfluous to success in the biological sciences.” On the contrary, I have commented on previous threads that Dr. Skell is completely mistaken.
So then both Crick and Watson were well-acquainted in evolutionary theory?
“…you appear to confirm that unintelligent abiogenesis is, in fact, a necessary component of modern evolutionary theory” On the contrary, I merely pointed out that Francis Crick thought that it was, and presented an hypothesis that is very similar to the suggestion by Dr. William Dembski;
Ok, so his proposal of directed panspermia did not put him " on public record as vigorously opposing the basic principles of the “modern evolutionary synthesis” (often referred to on this website as “neo-darwinism”). " And I don't think that he doubted the efficacy of Natural Selection. So what was the basic principle of MES/ND, that he vigorously opposed? Natural variation?Charlie
March 15, 2009
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Oramus Again, organisms don’t compete, they barter. Rabbits give 8 so they can keep two. Snakes give 100 so they can keep 20. Insects give millions so they can keep thousands. This is a key concept that Darwinists miss (whether from ignorance or intent I don’t know).
Eh? Not claiming to be a Darwinist here, but have you heard of the term "differential reproductive success"?madsen
March 15, 2009
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IDists on this site often say that they believe in evolution but disagree about the mechanisms of evolution. If this is true, then don't the claims of evolution being inherently racist also apply to ID?B L Harville
March 15, 2009
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In #25 Charlie also wrote:
"...you appear to confirm that unintelligent abiogenesis is, in fact, a necessary component of modern evolutionary theory"
On the contrary, I merely pointed out that Francis Crick thought that it was, and presented an hypothesis that is very similar to the suggestion by Dr. William Dembski; that aliens might have been responsible for the "planting" of life on Earth. Personally, I think that the question of the origin of life is still quite far from an evidence-based solution, and may remain so for the foreseeable future. So what? Neither Darwin nor most evolutionary biologists over the past 150 years have bothered to argue about the origin of life. Rather, we have studied life as it already exists, using the empirical method and publishing our findings in peer-reviewed scientific journals. ID supporters have done none of these things, and so ID remains merely an hypothesis, devoid of evidence and based primarily on questionable mathematical speculations, promoted by people who have a not-very-well-hidden agenda of promoting the Christian religion in the guise of science. So far, it hasn't worked, and if the rapid demise of organizations such as the IDEA clubs is any indication, it won't.Allen_MacNeill
March 15, 2009
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Forget about racism already. Its the least of darwinists problems. They can't even see the forest for the trees. There is absolutely no competition happening in nature. It is an illusion, much more so than the supposed illusion of design Dawkins likes to trumpet. Competition says there are winners and losers. In nature, there are no winners and losers. Rather, there are fluctuations in the quantitative representation of organisms. Species come and go but animal kinds are still here. The Dodo bird left us long ago. But birds are still here. The day ALL birds go extinct is the day nature starts to unravel and ALL of life goes extinct. Again, organisms don't compete, they barter. Rabbits give 8 so they can keep two. Snakes give 100 so they can keep 20. Insects give millions so they can keep thousands. This is a key concept that Darwinists miss (whether from ignorance or intent I don't know).Oramus
March 15, 2009
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In #25 charlie wrote:
"...you have agreed with Skell that a thorough knowledge of evolution is superfluous to success in the biological sciences."
On the contrary, I have commented on previous threads that Dr. Skell is completely mistaken. Indeed, evolutionary biology itself is one of the major branches of the biological sciences. Would you like to argue that knowledge of evolution is superfluous to success in that field? And, if evolutionary biology is superfluous to success in the biological sciences, why have at least a half dozen Nobel Prizes been awarded to evolutionary biologists, despite the fact that no category for biology exists in Alfred Nobel's bequest of gift? Or that in 1982 the Swedish Academy of Sciences established a parallel prize – the Crafoord Prize – specifically to honor astronomers, biologists, and geologists, and that since 1982 eleven evolutionary biologists have been awarded Crafoord Prizes? Dr. Skell's opinions (which he has never defended through the use of actual evidence) have been thoroughly debunked by the majority of the scientific community. Arguing by assertion doesn't work, even if you're a member of the National Academy of Sciences, and especially if you know virtually nothing about the sciences outside of your field of study.Allen_MacNeill
March 15, 2009
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Allen [30], mapou wrote that, not Madsen.David Kellogg
March 15, 2009
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In #28 Madsen wrote:
"Discrimination, within the context of genes, implies racism, i.e., the superiority of one ethnic/racial group or breed over another."
It implies nothing of the kind. According to modern evolutionary theory, atural selection operates at the level of individuals, not races. Indeed, the whole concept of "race" is no longer an operative one in evolutionary biology, and hasn't been since at least 1945.Allen_MacNeill
March 15, 2009
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Yep, that's exactly what he's saying.Allen_MacNeill
March 15, 2009
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Mapou #24 What evolutionists cannot deny is that evolution, by its very use of a selection mechanism, must be discriminatory in nature. Otherwise it would not work. Discrimination, within the context of genes, implies racism, i.e., the superiority of one ethnic/racial group or breed over another.
Exactly what are you saying here? Many IDers accept at least "microevolution", and some even accept "macroevolution". Are you saying that these people must therefore believe in the superiority of one racial group over another?madsen
March 15, 2009
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Allen_MacNeill, If Nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with the stronger, she wishes even less that a superior race should intermingle with an inferior one; because in such a case all her efforts, throughout hundreds of thousands of years, to establish an evolutionary higher stage of being, may thus be rendered futile. ~ Adolf Hitler The German Fuhrer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution. ~ Arthur Keith National Socialism is nothing but applied biology. ~ Rudolph Hess Hitler and many of the physicians that carried out this program were very fanatical Darwinists and particularly wanted to apply Darwinism to society. ~ Richard Weikartbevets
March 15, 2009
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Oh, by the way, I am not accusing anyone, evolutionary biologist or not, of racism. With the exception right now of Darwin (yes, a lesser racism than many of his era) and Hitler.Charlie
March 15, 2009
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By the way, Allen MacNeill, since this thread is still short by some distance of a hundred comments could you comment to this of yours? https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/scientific-certitude-100-years-ago/#comment-307961 It looks to me that, in denying mapou's point, you have agreed with Skell that a thorough knowledge of evolution is superfluous to success in the biological sciences:
Francis Crick and James Watson, neither of whom are evolutionary biologists, nor are recognized by the scientific community as having spent their whole lives studying evolution.
And here you appear to confirm that unintelligent abiogenesis is, in fact, a necessary component of modern evolutionary theory:
On the contrary, Francis Crick is on public record as vigorously opposing the basic principles of the “modern evolutionary synthesis” (often referred to on this website as “neo-darwinism”). Crick, along with Leslie Orgel, proposed an alternative theory called “directed panspermia”, which essentially is one of the versions of “intelligent design” cited by Dr. William Dembski as an explanation for the origin of “complex specified information” (i.e. it was seeded on Earth by aliens).
I like quoting you, so could you confirm my readings on this issue? If you do so on the appropriate thread rather than let this lovely veer off topic would you kindly link to your response?Charlie
March 15, 2009
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Nobody is really accusing evolutionists of being publically racists. Even if they do believe in racism in their heart, they would be foolish to admit it publically as that would amount to career suicide. I suspect, however, that many are in fact closet racists and that we are only seeing the tip of a submerged iceberg. What evolutionists cannot deny is that evolution, by its very use of a selection mechanism, must be discriminatory in nature. Otherwise it would not work. Discrimination, within the context of genes, implies racism, i.e., the superiority of one ethnic/racial group or breed over another.Mapou
March 15, 2009
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Sorry about the question marks everywhere - they appear to have been placed when I inserted "spaces" which had disappeared in copying this from previous uses.Charlie
March 15, 2009
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Here's a quote I mined from Hitler's Second, or Secret, Book a while back. Hitler anti-Darwinian?? Zweites Buch, Hitler’s second book says:?http://www.zogsnightmare.com/books/NEWBOOKS2_4_08/newbooks!/ZweitesBuch.pdf?
The struggle for existence and continuance in life waged by billions upon billions of organisms?takes place on the surface of an exactly measured sphere. The compulsion to engage in the struggle for?existence lies in the limitation of the living space; but in the life struggle for this living space lies also the basis?for evolution.? ?In the times before man, world history was primarily a presentation of geological events: the struggle of natural?forces with one another, the creation of an inhabitable surface on this planet, the separation of water from land, ?the formation of mountains, of plains, and of the seas. This is the world history of this time. Later, with the? emergence of organic life, man’s interest concentrated on the process of becoming and the passing away of its? thousandfold forms. And only very late did man finally become visible to himself, and thus by the concept of? world history he began to understand first and foremost only the history of his own becoming, that is, the ?presentation of his own evolution. This evolution is characterised by an eternal struggle of men against beasts? and against men themselves. From the invisible confusion of the organisms there finally emerged formations:? Clans, Tribes, Folks, States. The description of their origins and their passing away is but the representation of? an eternal struggle for existence. ?…. ? First of all a very violent struggle for existence sets in, which only individuals who are the? strongest and have the greatest capacity for resistance can survive. A high infant mortality rate on the one hand?and a high proportion of aged people on the other are the chief signs of a time which shows little regard for?individual life.? Since, under such conditions, all weaklings are swept away through acute distress and illness,?and only the healthiest remain alive, a kind of natural selection takes place. [Descent Of Man, anyone?] Thus the number of a Folk can? easily be subject to a limitation, but the inner value can remain, indeed it can experience an inner heightening.?But such a process cannot last for too long, otherwise the distress can also turn into its opposite. In nations?composed of racial elements that are not wholly of equal value, permanent malnutrition can ultimately lead to a ?dull surrender to the distress, which gradually reduces energy, and instead of a struggle which fosters a natural? selection, a gradual degeneration sets in. This is surely the case once man, in order to control the chronic?distress, no longer attaches any value to an increase of his number, and resorts on his own to birth control. For? then he himself immediately embarks upon a road opposite to that taken by nature. Whereas nature, out of the ?multitude of beings who are born, spares the few who are most fitted in terms of health and resistance to wage?life’s struggle, man limits the number of births, and then tries to keep alive those who have been born with no?regard to their real value or to their inner worth. Here his humanity is only the handmaiden of his weakness, and?at the same time it is actually the cruellest destroyer of his existence. If man wants to limit the number of births? on his own, without producing the terrible consequences which arise from birth control, he must give the? number of births free rein but cut down on the number of those remaining alive.? ?Since the firstborn in no way must grow according to the racially valuable sides of both parents, it lies ?in the interest of a nation that later life at least search out the more racially valuable from among the total?number of children, through the struggle for existence, and preserve them for the nation and, conversely, put the ?nation in the possession of the accomplishments of these racially valuable individuals. But if man himself ?prevents the procreation of a greater number of children and limits himself to the firstborn or at least to the?secondborn, he will nevertheless want to preserve especially these inferior racial elements of the nation, even if? these do not possess the most valuable characteristics. Thus he artificially hinders nature’s process of selection, ?he prevents it, and thereby helps to impoverish a nation of powerful personalities. He destroys the peak value of? a Folk.
------Charlie
March 15, 2009
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I thought I'd fixed that. *debunked*Charlie
March 15, 2009
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Allen MacNeill's "Like A Creationist" speech was debinked last year. https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/darwin-and-the-nazis/#comment-241004
MacNeill says Hitler took Jesus as his Lord and savior, but Hitler did not accept any teachings of the Bible on Jesus as they are all Jewish fabrications, and did not believe in Jesus as the Son of God but the son of a soldier and a whore. His Jesus was an Aryan warrior, not the Jesus of history or Christianity. Hitler was unlike a creationist.
https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/darwin-and-the-nazis/#comment-241018 https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/darwin-and-the-nazis/#comment-241000 Further, unlike a creationist, Hitler thought man was descended from some animal as low as a reptile and through the lineage of monkeys and apes - specifically, through something like the baboon. Just because you exited that thread without answering, having noticed about 40 comments too late that it had hit the magic number, doesn't mean your case wasn't trounced. On your above on Mein Kampf: How is it clear that Hitler is not referring to DArwin's theory? Whose theory, if not Darwin's was he referencing in his Secret Book when he talked about the positive evolution of beast to man by the "incessant struggle for existence" and by "natural selection"? Hitler not like a creationst - 1 Allen MacNeill's repeated bunk - 0 While he quotes DoM to show Darwin's egalitarianism he misses this quote again: https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/darwin-and-the-nazis/#comment-240764Charlie
March 15, 2009
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Also, the author of the Gospel of John does not claim to be the apostle John.David Kellogg
March 15, 2009
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Ray, No, no, and no.
In #3 you assert the New Testament to be a collection of forgeries;
No. I said the Gospels were not based on anything Jesus had written (not at all the same as a forgery).
Christians to be deluded;
No. I said the Gospels were written by people who worshipped the Jesus they knew from stories.
and the author that impersonated St. John to have originated anti-semitism.
No. I said the Gospel of John paved the way for Christian anti-Semitism, which is historically true. You're 0-for-3 Ray. Readings this crude support my view that praise from you should be viewed as a red flag.David Kellogg
March 15, 2009
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Allen MacNeill (#14; quoting Adolf Hitler): “My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them" (1922; when Hitler was attempting to win the hearts of a Christian nation). Allen MacNeill, Atheist-evolutionist, is in the unenviable position, even with the 20-20 vision of hindsight, of declaring that he, like the KKK and any neo-Nazi, believes Adolf Hitler. The Hitler quote proves that anyone can claim to be a Christian; like Evolutionist Ken Miller who argues Atheist-evolutionism while maintaining that he is a Christian. RayR. Martinez
March 15, 2009
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David Kellogg (#9): "Ray, I’m not an atheist. But it doesn’t surprise me that you mistake me one." In #3 you assert the New Testament to be a collection of forgeries; Christians to be deluded; and the author that impersonated St. John to have originated anti-semitism. All of these slanderous assertions correspond to what the traditional enemy of Christianity (= Atheism ideology) has always said. If you are not an Atheist then why are you advocating Atheism ideology? RayR. Martinez
March 15, 2009
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By the way, the score is still: Racist Christian political leaders = 14 Racist evolutionary biologists = 1 (sort of)Allen_MacNeill
March 15, 2009
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Darwin also wrote this about the human "races":
"Although the existing races of man differ in many respects, as in colour, hair, shape of skull, proportions of the body, &c., yet if their whole organisation be taken into consideration they are found to resemble each other closely in a multitude of points. Many of these points are of so unimportant or of so singular a nature, that it is extremely improbable that they should have been independently acquired by aboriginally distinct species or races. The same remark holds good with equal or greater force with respect to the numerous points of mental similarity between the most distinct races of man. The American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans differ as much from each other in mind as any three races that can be named; yet I was incessantly struck, whilst living with the Fuegians on board the "Beagle," with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours; and so it was with a full-blooded negro with whom I happened once to be intimate." (http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?itemID=F937.1&viewtype=side&pageseq=244)
And this:
"Now when naturalists observe a close agreement in numerous small details of habits, tastes and dispositions between two or more domestic races, or between nearly-allied natural forms, they use this fact as an argument that all are descended from a common progenitor who was thus endowed; and consequently that all should be classed under the same species. The same argument may be applied with much force to the races of man." (http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?itemID=F937.1&viewtype=side&pageseq=244)
Most evolutionary biologists today freely admit that Darwin was a racist by today's standards, although even by 19th century standards, his racism was very mild. But that hasn't been acknowledged by Arrington and O'Leary. Instead, they keep on posting the same idea over and over again, without ever responding to evidence that shows unequivocally that evolutionary biologists today are not racists, nor does the modern theory of evolution contain anything that might be used to support racist ideologies. It's kind of like tag-team wrestling: O'Leary keeps posting until the opposition gets too tough, and then she tags Arrington, who posts the same old same old over again. So, once more into the breach, good friends, once more: At this year’s Darwin Bicentennial Celebration at Cornell the department of ecology and evolutionary biology co-sponsored a panel discussion on “Evolution and Racism”. All four of the panelists, two of whom were African Americans (three were evolutionary biologists and one was a sociologist) agreed that by today’s standards Darwin and most of his contemporaries were racists. And they also pointed out that evolutionary biologists today – people like Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Lewontin, Will Provine, and Robert Trivers – are among the strongest and most vocal opponents of racism, especially “scientific racism”. You can read about it here: http://www.google.com/calendar/event?eid=YjRlMHB0bWR2Z3EwNzE0YnFhN2tqdjVqYWcgbXVzZXVtb2Z0aGVlYXJ0aEBt&ctz=America/New_York Two years ago I served on a panel at the Cornell Darwin Day Celebration that dealt with “Evolution and Eugenics”. All four of the panelists (three evolutionary biologists and a Tallman Prize winner) agreed that Darwin’s ideas were used by eugenicists to justify their heinous policies. They also pointed out that prominent evolutionary biologists were among the members of the UNESCO panel that issued the United Nations’ 1950 statement on eugenics and race, which condemned both in the strongest of terms, and that virtually no evolutionary biologist has actively supported eugenics since 1945. You can read about it here: http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Feb07/Darwin.lgk.html Now admittedly, the department of ecology and evolutionary biology at Cornell is not “a world association of evolutionary biologists”. However, it is widely recognized as one of the premier institutions of its kind in the world. We’ve done what O’Leary has asked for. Why hasn’t she acknowledged this? How about this statement: “The simple fact remains: there is no “inferior” race; the genetic differences between races are trivial.” This statement comes from the National Center for Science Education, as part of a report on “Racism and the Public’s Perception of Evolution”, available online here: http://ncseweb.org/rncse/22/3/racism-publics-perception-evolution (paragraph 31, second sentence) Even ID supporters might be willing to admit that the NCSE is a “world-recognized organization of evolutionary biologists”. After all, they complain about the immense political power of the NCSE, and the fact that virtually all evolutionary biologists agree with their organization’s views, including the one quoted above. Seems pretty definitive to me. Apparently not so to Arrington and O’Leary. Why not? There have also been multiple sessions at the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meetings on this and related subjects, which have condemned the use of evolutionary biology to support racism. Last, but not least, one could also read The Mismeasure of Man, perhaps the strongest indictment of “scientific racism” published in the second half of the 20th century, by Stephen Jay Gould, one of the premier evolutionary biologists of the 20th century, and a tireless opponent of racism and the perversion of evolutionary science for political means. I made a prediction in O’Leary's last thread on this subject: that she would not acknowledge any of the evidence I posted to support the assertion that evolutionary biologists today are no more racists than, say, physicists or chemists today. But that's clearly not the point, is it? The point is to assert over and over again (without supporting evidence) that evolutionary theory leads directly and inevitably toward racism, eugenics, and the Nazi holocaust. This, despite the fact that even some of the partisans on their side have pointed out that this clearly isn't the case, and that their incessant harping on this subject isn't advancing the science of ID one iota. So, when responding to this kind of ad hominem "guilt by association" argument in past threads, I've challenged them to name ten contemporary evolutionary biologists who are racists (and I've even given them one to get them started). But, to be fair, I've also pointed out on numerous occasions that their favorite world view (i.e. Christianity) has also been perverted by evil people for evil ends. So, in the interests of fairness, here's just a few examples (sorry about the Godwin, but I guess it's inevitable): While Hitler uses the word "evolution" in Mein Kampf, it is clear that he is not referring to Darwin's theory. Indeed, he never mentions Darwin at all. In fact, a look at his writings reveals his sentiments on the subject to be those of an orthodox creationist. Like a creationist, Hitler asserts fixity of kinds:
"The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger will retain the character of a tiger." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. ii, ch. xi.
Like a creationist, Hitler claims that God made man:
"For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. ii, ch. x.
Like a creationist, Hitler affirms that humans existed "from the very beginning", and could not have evolved from apes:
"From where do we get the right to believe, that from the very beginning Man was not what he is today? Looking at Nature tells us, that in the realm of plants and animals changes and developments happen. But nowhere inside a kind shows such a development as the breadth of the jump , as Man must supposedly have made, if he has developed from an ape-like state to what he is today." - Adolf Hitler, Hitler's Tabletalk (Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier).
Like a creationist, Hitler believes that man was made in God's image, and in the expulsion from Eden:
"Whoever would dare to raise a profane hand against that highest image of God among His creatures would sin against the bountiful Creator of this marvel and would collaborate in the expulsion from Paradise." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol ii, ch. i.
Like a creationist, Hitler believes that:
"God ... sent [us] into this world with the commission to struggle for our daily bread." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol ii, ch. xiv.
Like a creationist, Hitler claims Jesus as his inspiration:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them." - Adolf Hitler, speech, April 12 1922, published in My New Order.
Like a creationist, Hitler despises secular schooling:
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . we need believing people." - Adolf Hitler, Speech, April 26, 1933.
Hitler even goes so far as to claim that Creationism is what sets humans apart from the animals:
"The most marvelous proof of the superiority of Man, which puts man ahead of the animals, is the fact that he understands that there must be a Creator." - Adolf Hitler, Hitler's Tabletalk (Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier).
Hitler does not mention evolution explicitly anywhere in Mein Kampf. However, after declaring the fixity of the fox, goose, and tiger, as quoted above, he goes on to talk of differences within species:
"[T]he various degrees of structural strength and active power, in the intelligence, efficiency, endurance, etc., with which the individual specimens are endowed." Mein Kampf, vol. ii, ch. xi.
So, like a creationist and ID supporter, there is some evolution he is prepared to concede -- evolution within species, or "microevolution", to which people like Phillip Johnson and Michael Behe have no objection. It is on the basis of the one part of evolutionary theory which creationists accept that Hitler tried to find a scientific basis for his racism and his program of eugenics. Ergo, Hitler did not base his eugenic and genocidal policies on evolutionary theory, but rather on views that are very similar to those held by most creationists and many ID supporters.Allen_MacNeill
March 15, 2009
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This is the Internet where criticism of evolution is still legal. Ray
Of course. However, I thought the mission of this blog was to serve those of us in the Intelligent Design community (if I can include myself as an interested layperson). These posts concerning Darwin's views on race are interesting I suppose, but do not advance the case for ID at all. It would just be nice to see some science for a change.madsen
March 15, 2009
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Looks like Darwin was undoubtedly a racist. I certainly wouldn't try to defend that, nor his main theory, which I think is refuted nicely by Behe and a few others. But aren't we missing something here? While Christianity may certainly be defined as following the general teachings of Christ, Darwinism is -- at least to anyone interested in a scientific analysis -- not at all the mirror image of that. Darwinism is the specific claim that mutation-selection evolution is responsible for most if not all complex adaptations. How is this claim connected to racism? Could mutation-selection (if it can create much of anything at all) have created a human species of approximately equally capable races? Sure. Could intelligent designers have created a human species with races of very different capabilities? Again, sure. I don't *like* the idea that some races are more advanced than others. And, from a strictly empirical standpoint, I think it's wrong at worst, irrelevant at best; i.e. if one race is significantly more able than another, so what? What use can we make of that information? Probably none. You still have to screen job applicants individually if you want to be able to survive your company's competition. What bothers me most about UD's Darwin-and-racism articles, is how much the authors seem to be *delighted* to see racism issues mixed up with evolution, just as most evolutionists seem delighted to see moralistic religion mixed up with ID. Maybe Darwin was wrong to mix these issues together -- and so is UD.DarelRex
March 15, 2009
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I would note Barry, that to be fair, the term Racist is actually anachronistic when applied to Darwin. He would have been puzzled at the problem we have in suggesting different Races have different abilities. Heck even Lincoln would have been surprised by this. Although you are right, I don't think Darwinists do them selves any favours trying to pretend reality is other than it is.Jason Rennie
March 15, 2009
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That quote from The Descent of Man is a prediction and there is nothing in it which, on a fair reading, indicates any kind of endorsement. If Darwin had actually believed what he is falsely accused of believing then we would expect him to at least comment approvingly on the treatment of the aboriginal peoples of Australasia and North America, to support the enslavement of black peoples as a proper use of lesser species in the way we also use cattle and to regard the Irish Potato Famine as natural selection in action. Instead, we find no general approval of the way in which native people have been treated, we find a clearly-stated abhorrence of and opposition to slavery and a contribution of the equivalent of $15000.00 of his own money to research into the breeding of blight-resistant strains of the potato which would ensure that the Irish famines did not happen again. As for the passage from Descent, would a true racist also have written the following in the same book?
Although the existing races of man differ in many respects, as in colour, hair, shape of skull, proportions of the body, &c., yet if their whole organisation be taken into consideration they are found to resemble each other closely in a multitude of points. Many of these points are of so unimportant or of so singular a nature, that it is extremely improbable that they should have been independently acquired by aboriginally distinct species or races. The same remark holds good with equal or greater force with respect to the numerous points of mental similarity between the most distinct races of man. The American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans differ as much from each other in mind as any three races that can be named; yet I was incessantly struck, whilst living with the Fuegians on board the "Beagle," with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours; and so it was with a full-blooded negro with whom I happened once to be intimate.
My thanks to Dr GH for finding that particular passage. The now-banned DaveScot also quoted passages from the report about Christian Identity Movements which demonstrated that people who believe themselves to be true Christians can also hold the most racist views which are far more vile and unequivocal than anything imputed to Darwin. No one here believes that all Christians share those beliefs or that such groups are anything other than a tiny minority of extremists. To do so would be a clear example - as are the attacks on Darwin - of the fallacy of Appealing to Consequences. As I wrote in the thread that has now been deleted:
The lesson that should be taken...is that racism is not just a problem in evolutionary biology or of any one nation or of whites or even of religion, it is a human problem. Perhaps it derives from our instinct to try and make sense of the world by categorizing it, one of the most basic being ‘us and them’ where ‘us’ is the local in-group be it family, clan, tribe or whatever, and ‘them’ being anyone else. Whatever its origin, we need to remember that, at some level, we are all capable of it whether we are honest enough to admit it or not.
Seversky
March 15, 2009
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Ray, I'm not an atheist. But it doesn't surprise me that you mistake me one.David Kellogg
March 15, 2009
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