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Darwin’s Doubt, reprinted, still #1 in paleontology

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Darwin's Doubt As of 9:00 am EST:

Many are getting the picture: The problem of accounting for the Cambrian in neo-Darwinian terms is insurmountable. In evolutionary terms, maybe. In Darwinian terms (whatever variety), no.

Gosh, if it weren’t for wrecking careers and campaigning against freedom to discuss problems with Darwinian evolution in educational settings, one wonders, what would Darwin’s followers have left?

Oh wait, they still have endangered bookstore Barnes & Noble, that persistently misshelves Steve Meyer’s Darwin’s Doubt.

Here’s an excerpt, to help clarify what the fuss is about:

Cambrian explosion: Those gaps, they just keep getting filled in, right?

Over the past 150 years or so, paleontologists have found many representatives of the phyla that were well known in Darwin’s time (by analogy, the three primary colors) and a few completely new forms altogether (by analogy, some other distinct colors such as green and orange, perhaps). And, of course, within these phyla there is a great deal of variety. Nevertheless, the analogy holds at least insofar a the differences in form between ay member of one phylum and any member of another phylum are vast, and paleontologists have utterly failed to find forms that would fill these yawning chasms in what biologists call “morphological space.” In other words, they have failed to find the paleontological equivalent of the numerous finely graded intermediate colors (Pendleton blue, dusty rose, gun barrel gray, magenta, etc.) That interior designers covet. Instead, extensive sampling of the fossil record has confirmed a strikingly discontinuous pattern in which representatives ofthe major phyla stand in stark isolation from members of other phyla, without intermediate forms filling the intervening morphological space.

Foote’s statistical analysis of this pattern documented by an ever-increasing number of paleontological investigations demonstrates just how improbable it is that there ever existed a myriad of as yet undiscovered intermediate forms of animal life–forms that could close the morphological distance between the Cambrian phyla one tiny evolutionary step at a time.

In effect, Foote’s analysis suggests that since paleontologists have reached repeatedly into the proverbial barrel, sampled it from one end to the other, and found only representatives of various radically distinct phyla but no rainbow of intermediates, we should’t hold our breath expecting such intermediates to eventually emerge. He asks, “whether we have a representative sample of morphological diversity and therefore can rely on patterns documented in the fossil record.” The answer, he says, is yes.

By this affirmation, he doesn’t mean that there are no biological forms left to discover. He means, rather, that we have good reason to conclude that such discoveries will not alter the largely discontinuous pattern that has emerged. “Although we have much to learn about the evolution of form,” he writes, the statistical pattern created by our existing fossil data demonstrates that “in many respects our view of the history of biological diversity is mature. (pp. 70–71)

Foote?:

Morphological analysis of four higher taxa of fossil marine invertebrates shows that, over the history of paleontology, there is no general tendency for morphologically extreme or modal species and genera to be described preferentially early or late. Reconstructing the expected evolutionary sequences of morphological disparity that would have been estimated at various times during the past century and a half reveals features that are sensitive to sampling (for example, peak trilobite disparity in the Ordovician, peak of post-Paleozoic crinoid disparity in the Triassic, and peak blastoid disparity in the Permian), as well as more robust features (for example, increase in trilobite disparity from the Cambrian to the Ordovician, continued increase in trilobite disparity despite a drop in taxonomic diversity after the Early Ordovician, decrease in blastoid disparity from the Devonian to the Carboniferous, and increase in crinoid disparity from the Jurassic to the Cretaceous followed by decline during the Cretaceous). Although we still have much to learn about the evolution of form, in many respects our view of the history of biological diversity is mature.

Sampling, taxonomic description, and our evolving knowledge of morphological diversity. Paleobiology, 23: 181–206. Foote, M. 1997c.

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Comments
"There isn’t any way to test the claim that universal common descent is the only way to explain the pattern of what you think are ERVs. And no, no one knows they are ERVs- they just look like they are- and that is a fact." We can predict what we should and should not find if common descent is true. There's nothing that can't be 'explained' (read: non-answered) by invoking an unknown designer. As I've said before, I work in cell & molecular biology. Yes, we know that they're retroviral in nature.CHartsil
February 23, 2015
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Hangonasec@ 30 I invoke Hitchens- That which can be declared without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.Joe
February 23, 2015
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CH:
Joe, then what’s the mechanism? They don’t just look like ERVs, they are ERVs.
There isn't any way to test the claim that universal common descent is the only way to explain the pattern of what you think are ERVs. And no, no one knows they are ERVs- they just look like they are- and that is a fact. We don't even know if universal common descent can explain it- no way to test the claim.Joe
February 23, 2015
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Yes, I'm sure you are right.Upright BiPed
February 22, 2015
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You're now projecting your inability to defend your own position. This is merely deflection.CHartsil
February 22, 2015
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You’re asking for me to prove something wrong that you’ve never shown to be true.
You've apparently lost your place. You are here to belittle ID proponents. As a part of your attack, you asked me to answer the who what when and where of a one-time event that happened several hundred million years ago in the deep unobservable past. I am prepared to offer an answer for each of your questions, but that is not the issue where you are concerned. I am asking the person on the attack if he can meet his own standards. I already know that you can't. I am merely demonstrating that fact for the readers.Upright BiPed
February 22, 2015
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Once again, you're shifting the burden of proof. You're asking for me to prove something wrong that you've never shown to be true. As for the rest of my comment, Shane does a great job in explaining why there are ERVs homologous between humans and gorillasCHartsil
February 22, 2015
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Chart, 1. I think it is clear from your answer that you do not have the supporting evidence. Likewise, you have no way to falsify your position, even as you demand the same from ID. In any case, I'm completely capable of defending my position. 2. As for the rest of your comment, I have no idea what you are talking about.Upright BiPed
February 22, 2015
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UP, you're shifting the burden of proof and I don't really need any more than that video and corresponding sources as it completely rebuts your ENV page.CHartsil
February 22, 2015
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All that Darwin's Doubt establishes is that Meyer is a better author than Dembski.Me_Think
February 22, 2015
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Chart, Do you have something more than DK? He's given all he has to give.Upright BiPed
February 22, 2015
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Major progress in the Design Debate:
Well, if you are going to ask me for the designer’s shoe size and hair color...
We have now been informed that The Designer has feet and hair.Daniel King
February 22, 2015
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Chart, Well, if you are going to ask me for the designer's shoe size and hair color, then I will want to know what evidence you've seen that phenomena such as semiotic systems can spring from inanimate matter. I am trying to establish if you are agnostic on the issue of design or if you are just another irrational materialist who demands everything from design theory while having squat to show for the beliefs he holds so dearly (as to go out and attack those who happen to think otherwise). And weren't you here just a day or so ago talking up falsifiablity? So what is your evidence that supports the conclusion that semiosis is derived from matter and how can we falsify your conclusions if they are wrong.Upright BiPed
February 22, 2015
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Box; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75ezqKnpTh8CHartsil
February 22, 2015
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Joe, then what's the mechanism? They don't just look like ERVs, they are ERVs. We know that because of GAG POL and ENV. Hang, of course they are. Evolution is the only thing that explains the distribution of ERVs with testable mechanisms. KF, I'm having to repeat it because you keep trying to shift the burden of proof UB, I've seen no such evidence thus far. Just assertion based on invalid inferences and analogies.CHartsil
February 22, 2015
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Forgive the delay CH, I keep forgetting I'm in the conversation, and as it turns out, you are significantly down on my list of priorities. No offense intended. May I ask, are you suggesting that you are purely agnostic on the notion that there is evidence of design in biology?Upright BiPed
February 22, 2015
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CH, drumbeat repetition. It still remains that FSCO/I is a reliable signature of design as cause; even your posts are inadvertent evidence on the point, as opposed touhji6isdfuhdfdyhg or tttttttttttttt etc. KF PS: Folks isn't it ironic that objectors are forced to exemplify FSCO/I as designed to object, and to infer from the text of posts that their FSCO/I indicates their source in intelligently directed configuration. One of those little ironies.kairosfocus
February 22, 2015
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Do Shared ERVs Support Common Ancestry? Nope.Box
February 22, 2015
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Joe,
ERVs are your wishful thinking.
is not an argument either.Hangonasec
February 22, 2015
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No CH, ERVs are your wishful thinking. "They look like ERVs" is not an argumentJoe
February 22, 2015
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Just because Intelligent Design is NOT about the mechanism (beyond design/ intelligent agency activity) does NOT mean ID does not have a mechanism.Joe
February 22, 2015
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Joe: ERVs alone put it beyond any reasonable doubt. UB: Then correct me. Who or what is the designer? What mechanisms did they use? When? What level or degree of life did they design? How did you determine any of this?CHartsil
February 22, 2015
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Ahhh, I was correct. You haven't a clue what you are talking about. No wonder you are so certain of yourself.Upright BiPed
February 22, 2015
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Evolutionism's mechanisms have been tested and shown to be impotent with respect to universal common descent. Heck they can't even get beyond populations of prokaryotes given starting populations of prokaryotes. So we can say that evolutionism is the notion that some indeterminate time ago, something, had something to do with some degree of life with some unknown mechanism.Joe
February 22, 2015
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It had better not be, ID has enough problems as it is. Namely, that no one can seem to move it beyond bare assertion. ID is the notion that some indeterminate time ago, some agent, had something to do with designing some degree of life with some unknown mechanism.CHartsil
February 22, 2015
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Chart, You don't seem to understand ID at all. ID and life's ability to change and adapt over time are not in conflict with one another. Try to remember that.Upright BiPed
February 22, 2015
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"Any cooked up reason for ID not being science also goes for blind watchmaker evolution. So let’s keep it simple:" No, it really doesn't. That's a horribly ignorant false equivocation. Evolution works by testable mechanisms and can be falsified. ID does not and is not. KF, you're still trying to shift the burden of proof. It's your burden to show that it was designed in the first place. https://www.facebook.com/groups/IntelligentDesignOfficialPage/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/CreationEvolutionDebate/CHartsil
February 22, 2015
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CH, bad news, the vera causa principle is a reasonable and longstanding key control on smuggling in empirically unsupported guesses into explanation of the unobservable past of origins. FSCO/I is both real and relevant to cell based life, including the self-replication facility. There is but one empirically warranted source for it, and it is backed up by the implications of a config space for at least 500 - 1,000 bits, vs the maximum scope of blind, needle in haystack search feasible on solar system or observed cosmos atomic resources. Namely, we start at sampling the equivalent of 1 straw from a cubical haystack as thick as our galaxy, then go steeply up from there. That's why islands of function will credibly be maximally implausible to be found on blind search. Just as no one reasonably expects to correctly assemble a 6500 fishing reel by shaking up its parts in a bag. The challenge to do so for components of a living cell in a warm pond or the like will be far worse. And, as was pointed out the von Neumann self replicating facility, its use of algorithms and codes -- thus LANGUAGE and GOAL ORIENTED STEPWISE INTEGRATED PROCESSES -- has to be accounted for. Dessign, intelligently and purposefully directed configuration, is the only credible and empirically warranted causal factor for such. If you disagree, simply provide a case in point per actual observation. Which, patently neither you nor your fellow objectors can. Or it would be trumpeted from the housetops and the Nobel Prize would be on the way. So, what is really going on is ideological, lab coat clad a priori evolutionary materialism and scientism demanding to censor how we think about origins in light of what the actual evidence we have tells us. Sorry, we don't buy that line of talking points any more. Show us or acknowledge that you camnnot pass the vera causa test. As for provide MECHANISMS, design is a creative intellectual process that may use technologies, skills, knowledge, materials etc, but is essentially an abstract process. We do see designs being created all around us and we ourselves are designers so it is not some weird suspect notion. I have already pointed to you that Venter et al show us what can be done with molecular nanotech, so such design of life forms is already something we are beginning to do. Game over. KFkairosfocus
February 22, 2015
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CHartsil, Any cooked up reason for ID not being science also goes for blind watchmaker evolution. So let's keep it simple:
Blindwatchmaker evolution is neither a theory nor a law, it remains an assertion at this point and there’s no indication that it’ll graduate from that any time soon.
Box
February 22, 2015
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ID is neither a theory nor a law, it remains an assertion at this point and there's no indication that it'll graduate from that any time soon. https://www.facebook.com/groups/IntelligentDesignOfficialPage/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/CreationEvolutionDebate/CHartsil
February 21, 2015
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