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Dawkins, Myers, and what R.S.V.P. means

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R.S.V.P. is an abbreviation for the French “répondez s’il vous plaît” which means “please respond” and traditionally is appended on invitations so that the host knows who and how many guests to expect.

Richard Dawkins and PZ Myers are running around saying they weren’t “gate crashers” at a pre-screening of “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed”. But that’s exactly what they were. PZ Myers claims he went through the same process to get a reservation for himself and a number of guests as all the other guests by going here

Expelled – RSVP System

ADDENDA: 3/25 There is no way to get to the URL above from the main page www.getexpelled.com. The above is not a publicized address. The links from the main page all go to TOUR BUS events not movie screenings.

The sticking point is that Myers was never invited. Myers RSVP’d to an invitation he never received. He fooled the host by gaming the invitation/response system employed. The host wasn’t checking RSVPs against a list of invitations sent out but rather just assumed that any RSVP received was in response to an invitation sent out. One could possibly say this was due to Myers’ ignorance of what RSVP means but he seems to be “As Smart as a 5th Grader” so that’s not a credible excuse. The only other alternative is Myers’ purposely and knowingly deceived the host which of course means Myers is dishonest. THAT is credible.

One might blame how this was allowed to happen on the naivety of the producers in trusting that RSVPs would be received only from invited guests. Honest people don’t tend to think like thieves so it might not have occurred to them that RSVPs would be received under false pretenses. But that still doesn’t excuse Myers’ dishonesty.

Richard Dawkins isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed but even so it’s hard to believe he believed that Myers was an invited guest but the possibility exists that Myers duped him into believing he was a legitimate participant in the pre-screening so I’ll reserve judgement on Dawkins for the nonce in this one case.

The question remains as to why Myers was singled out of a crowd waiting to get in when a more notorious and easily recognized skunk at the garden party (Dawkins) was not. I’d guess it’s because Myers was vigorously exercising his anti-religious potty mouth loud enough to offend other guests and someone complained while the other members in Myers’ anti-Christ crusader party were exercising a modicum of discretion. That’s just my working theory and it could be wrong but I wouldn’t bet even money on it being wrong. Too bad Myers doesn’t have the stones to be honest about his indescretions. Real men ‘fess up when caught pulling sophomoric stunts but I guess Myers can’t play it down by saying something whimsical like “Sorry, the devil made me do it.” 😆

Comments
To get an invitation e-mail, you needed to sign up for e-mails on their website. I did it. I imagine PZ Meyers did it, too. And they've substantially changed their website since this whole thing broke (and now I can't reserve a ticket). I hope we all stop defending the Expelled people soon. They are showing themselves up to be hypocrites. They Expelled someone from a movie about Expelling people. Americans mostly don't pay attention to this debate, but they understand hypocrisy. We, as the intelligent design community, need to stand up and say that the Expelled people don't represent us. They are an embarrassment, and we should stop defending their actions until they apologize to Mr. Meyers. I've said in other threads, and I'll say it here, it doesn't matter that Meyers is the devil. It doesn't matter that he's a bad man. We can't be hypocrites. We have to be better than them, and the folks at Expelled demonstrated that they are petty hypocrites. This is a huge loss for us.Nochange
March 24, 2008
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Patrick. You’re wrong, anyone/everyone could RSVP. They’ve changed the website all this happened.
If that's the case then the Expelled staff made a dumb error when writing the web page since obviously it did not match the intended invitation policy (remember, web admins are usually not management). Unfortunately for the Expelled staff, Myers exploited that error quite publicly. This all sounds like a simple miscommunication (mountain being made out of a molehill). I'm not going to defend this error, since an error is obviously what it is. Perhaps the Expelled staff could apologize for not clearly stating their policy? But I still don't see why they cannot control who sees these private screenings. There's nothing to apologize for there. Also, in general I think these antics by Myers should be ignored. It's the job of the PR department for Expelled to respond, not ID proponents.Patrick
March 24, 2008
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DaveScot, I have gone to film promotion events in the past, and in my experience, the mechanisms in place to secure tickets are very liberal. Generally, they want audiences to full a theatre. They might target a specific demographic in where they advertise (ie oldies stations for senior oriented films, hard rock stations for flims that target a younger demographic) but never have I experienced a situation where the promoters claim invitations presented en mass have ever *excluded* certain people. Maybe this was an exception - I'd be willing to grant - for special circumstances. Benefit of the doubt. And then I read this in Todd's post above (#3). This is a CLEAR GENERAL INVITATION to anyone reading that web site. Again, along the same lines that I've experienced such offerings in the past. Unless he is making that up, this case is cut and dry. The invitations were open to anyone who clicked a link - readers were "invited" to click a link. The fact that you - or anyone else - would, in retrospect, bring up the subject of "invitation policy" when such a liberal system was in place all along speaks volumes. This level of disingenuousness is astounding. If this issue is a microcosm of how ID conducts itself to get into the public eye, I can completely understand the point that your critics maintain.ov_
March 24, 2008
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This is all suspicion on my part, but is it possible P.Z Myers plan all along was to get noticed and eventually booted? Could it be part of a setup?, possibly to make the claim this is just another neo-creationist movie intolerable to other belief systems. This is just an assumption on my part, but with P.Z Myers and the rest of his drooling animals, anything is possible. I already read a few posts by a blogger on William Wallace's blog making those exact claims.godslanguage
March 24, 2008
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Patrick. You're wrong, anyone/everyone could RSVP. They've changed the website all this happened. As to DaveScot's "theory" that PZ must have been causing a problems in line, this is false as well. Mathis himself has admitted that he specifically excluded PZ because he wanted him to pay to see it.mathstudent
March 24, 2008
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The RSVP system is used for promotional screenings of other films as well. No invitation is necessary. I was able to see a screening of the film Juno in the same way that members of the public were able to see Expelled. One has to wonder why you must resort to "theories" about why Myers "barged" into the screening or why he was thrown out. By eye witness accounts and Mathis' own admission, Myers was simply booted out because Mathis felt like it. He wasn't being disruptive nor was he trying to gatecrash the film. Here's a little exercise for you, DaveScot. Go to the Expelled website (getexpelled.com). Click on the "Events and Tours" link. Please read what it says on the page: You and your community are invited to attend FREE of charge! So you and anybody else who clicks on this site (open to the public) are invited. You will then find a link to the RSVP system, one that is very similar to the one that Fox Searchlight uses for its promotional screenings. Frankly, trying to taint Myers as being dishonest is very disingenuous. It doesn't hide the irony of him being booted out of a film that supposedly preaches an openness to alternative ideas.godsilove86
March 24, 2008
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Todd,
That certainly seems like a general invitation to the entire community to me. It seems like everyone has been invited.
I don't see a method to request a RSVP ticket straight from the website? If I'm reading everything right in order to get a ticket you had to know the right web address and that was supposed to remain private. I agree that it was a poor decision to publicly list RSVP viewings if the ticket/invitation process was itself private. In short, the RSVP system was not very secure at all. But that does make what PZ and Dawkins did right?Patrick
March 24, 2008
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William Wallace, I'm pretty much a nobody, but for what it's worth, I will defend the integrity of people like Dembski and Behe till I'm blue in the face. I will not accept that the producers are in cahoots with PZ to make money.PannenbergOmega
March 24, 2008
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Talking about 800lb gorillas, maybe the guy looked like one trying to hide his camera and other video equipment under a huge coat, sounding off bell alarms and raising eye brows. Who knows.JPCollado
March 24, 2008
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Well, an idea is that PZ and the producers of Expelled are in cahoots with each other to get free publicity. The New York Times even covered the story. Now, why PZ wants to bring publicity is another question. I suspect that a wealthy angel investor is in the background waiting to fund a counter film, only the new film will be shown in the public schools.William Wallace
March 24, 2008
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I just thought of something. What PZ Myers did may have been some kind of social protest tactic. Barging in rudely to 'protest' the film and get in the news. You see what I'm saying?PannenbergOmega
March 24, 2008
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Dignified manners are borrowed from moral and social constructs wholly removed from his belief system. I always wondered if PZ kissed his mother with that potty mouth of his. The only way he could have made more of a spectacle out of himself is if he had resorted to playground tactics like making rude noises or pretending to be hurt.poachy
March 24, 2008
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Mr Reeves, "Or was it actually an ID stooge dressed up in a monkey suite to look like PZ in order to give him a bad name?" With all due respect, 1. This supposibly fits Myer's "M.O." 2. Do you really think the ID community would stoop that low? I don't.PannenbergOmega
March 24, 2008
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Now the question that is bugging me is this: How did the preview organizers manage to expel someone who has been dubbed an 800lb gorilla? They must have had some pretty formidable bouncers.Or was it actually an ID stooge dressed up in a monkey suite to look like PZ in order to give him a bad name?Timothy V Reeves
March 24, 2008
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toc, very good point.PannenbergOmega
March 24, 2008
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Not to be glib, but why would PZ Meyers' response be any different than what it is? From what I have read from him (and his fellows) on his blog, the man has no sense of personal dignity or restraint whatsoever. He is behaving exactly as one might expect him to behave. Dignified manners are borrowed from moral and social constructs wholly removed from his belief system.toc
March 24, 2008
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Please add an "also" between "should" and "be" in the last sentence. {DLH corrected}William Wallace
March 24, 2008
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The front page of the public website http://getexpelled.com/ has a link called "Events & Tours". Following that link leads to a page with the following text:
Motive Entertainment is proud to present THE EXPELLED TOUR which launches on November 26th to promote the upcoming release of EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed. Tour locations are being added every day! You and your community are invited to attend FREE of charge! CLICK HERE to RSVP now at a location near you!
That certainly seems like a general invitation to the entire community to me. It seems like everyone has been invited. Was the getexpelled.com website supposed to be secret? It certainly doesn't say "Please only use this website if you have been personally invited" anywhere that I can see.Todd Berkebile
March 24, 2008
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It should also be noted that Glen Davidson admitted that:
I found their rsvp site and I stuck it on this site, at Talkorigins, on AtBC, at Pharyngula, and at PT[Panda’s Thumb]. It may have been discovered by others who they weren’t targeting, as well. All I know for sure is what I found and what I did with it.
It should also be noted that PZ participates at two or more of these blogs.William Wallace
March 24, 2008
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Also, please see Substantiate your assertion, PZ in which I challenge PZ Myers to produce his invitation, or evidence that “just about everybody” was gate-crashing.William Wallace
March 24, 2008
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