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Depressions Have Unpredictable Consequences in Lives Lost

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Some of those who oppose loosening the draconian restrictions the government has placed on economic activity argue that the restrictions are necessary because they will save lives.  That argument — while it may be made in good faith — is nevertheless profoundly blinkered and shortsighted, because the heartbreaking reality is that China’s criminal recklessness has put us between the Scylla and the Charybdis when it comes to the question of saving lives.  Lives are going to be lost no matter what we do.  

We can continue stifling economic activity and maybe lives will be saved (though the science on that question is far from settled).  But there is a price to be paid for stifling economic activity.  We are already paying it to some degree by, for example, throwing millions of people out of work and stacking trillions of dollars of debt on top of an already unsustainable debt burden.  But if we push the world’s economy into a depression, we will pay a price in lives lost as well. 

On April 16 the UN issued a report warning that hundreds of thousands of children in the developing world could die this year due to the global economic downturn sparked by the coronavirus pandemic, and tens of millions more could fall into extreme poverty

But if history is any guide, the deaths of those hundreds of thousands of children could be just the tip of the iceberg.  In 1929 the stock market crashed and the Great Depression began.  Over the next 16 years, the world changed radically.  Governments were restructured.  Dictators arose with promises of saving the people from the economic devastation.  Wars began, and the period, especially from 1937 onward, was drenched in the blood of tens of millions.  No one could have predicted these events. If someone from 1945 traveled back in time to 1929 and told the story of the next decade and a half, he would have been dismissed as an outrageous fabulist.

The choice before us today is not between saving lives and callously refusing to save lives.  Rather, we are faced with the dilemma of choosing which course of action will result in the fewest lives lost.  Continuing the economic shutdown to save people from dying from COVID-19 will have a steep cost in lives stemming from the economic downturn.  If we loosen restrictions on economic activity, we may pay a price in lives lost to the virus.  Which way should we go?  It is a terrible choice, but the way forward is clear.  We cannot risk burning down the world’s economy.  Because if we do and the UN is correct, the cost will run into the hundreds of thousands of lives of the most vulnerable – and that is a best case.  We also risk unimaginable carnage such as that which came in the wake of the last Great Depression — or worse.  That is a risk no sane person would take.

Comments
Just one more, my RSS feed seems to have several interesting articles this morning from Ars Technica. This is the kind of thing that no one wants regardless.
Today, the former head of the agency responsible for rapid development of pandemic responses such as therapies and vaccines announced he would file a whistleblower complaint with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). Rick Bright, who had led the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority until this week, says he was transferred to a different position because he insisted on funding scientifically valid vaccine and therapy research over the objections of political appointees at HHS.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/head-of-us-pandemic-vaccine-group-says-he-was-demoted-in-retaliation/JVL
April 22, 2020
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And, same disclaimer again. Don't shoot the messenger.
The office of Missouri Attorney General Eric Schmitt has apparently decided that, in the absence of any way to sue a virus, the next best course of action is to take to court the entire nation where the disease originated. To that end, Schmitt's office said yesterday it had filed a lawsuit against "the Chinese government, Chinese Communist Party, and other Chinese officials and institutions" for the COVID-19 pandemic.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/missouri-attorney-general-tries-suing-china-to-recoup-covid-19-losses/JVL
April 22, 2020
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In the same vein (?), again, I'm not endorsing the views expressed, just bringing them to your attention. From Ars Technica:
One of the more frustrating aspects of the coronavirus pandemic has been the amount of disinformation swirling about. Much of this is politically motivated, perhaps unsurprising with the attention given to President Donald Trump's rambling, error-strewn press conferences. It may seem like commonsense that actively misleading the public during a national emergency has consequences, but now Fox News' two most-watched hosts have unwittingly performed a rather elegant experiment on their viewers that allows us to quantify that effect. The results are stark: greater exposure to Sean Hannity versus Tucker Carlson shows a measurable increase in the number of COVID-19 cases and deaths throughout March and early April.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/fox-news-hosts-have-measurable-effect-on-covid-cases-study-finds/JVL
April 22, 2020
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I've been thinking about this post a lot since it was first published. I don't know what to think really because my first instinct is to protect people and prevent unnecessary suffering. But I understand that a) people are frustrated and fed-up and getting rebellious and b) there is a severe economic hit that is so large it may change the financial landscape for years to come. So, I post the following link merely as another opinion to consider; that means I'm not endorsing it. From Ars Technica:
There’s more than one way to think about the economics of lockdowns, and a paper due to be published in the Journal of Benefit-Cost Analysis has an entirely different approach. It accepts that lockdowns will hurt the economy compared to business-as-usual but calculates whether that cost is outweighed by the lives that will be saved by social-distancing measures. The answer is yes—by $5.2 trillion. That’s an estimate that changes based on a range of different assumptions, but it represents what the authors consider the most realistic scenario.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/the-value-of-lives-saved-by-social-distancing-outweighs-the-costs/JVL
April 22, 2020
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Barry, depressions kill young people because they kill aspirations. Dreams snuffed out lead to drifting and wasted mid-lives. Depressions matter less to old people because, well, we've basically done most of what we were going to do in life so a depression isn't preventing it. I think that, once social distancing has flattened the epidemic, vulnerable populations should self-protect and be protected but the rest of the crowd should just get on with life.Denyse OLeary
April 22, 2020
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According to darwinists, the self is an 'illusion'. Therefore, you can not kill your'self' (because your existence is not 'real'). Yes, darwinism is the doctrine of lunacy. It is a cancer that destroys everything that it touches.Truthfreedom
April 22, 2020
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It's apparent that when you attach 'Global' to your narrative, like for Global Warming and Global Viruses, the quality of your science is going to go down, because the scope has been widened to include areas you can't possibly have controlled or even accounted for. Andrewasauber
April 22, 2020
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BA, It's very similar to the Climate Change narrative. Pushers and victims alike know the information presented isn't rigorously scientific, but it's always good enough to support a preferred narrative and good enough to dismiss anything challenging. And no one asks for better science. Andrewasauber
April 22, 2020
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Asauber
You can pretty much make up any story that you like and stake your claim
Indeed, commenter orthomyxo gives us a perfect example in another thread. He insists the COVID-19 numbers are understated. There is strong evidence, however, that they are overstated. He asks for data to support that claim. I give him data. His response: "TO ME, that is not data." Orthomyxo is so arrogant and consumed by confirmation bias that he has arrogated unto himself the authority arbitrarily to expel from the category "data" anything that does not support his thesis.Barry Arrington
April 22, 2020
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If you look at a timeline as to when and how this pandemic unfolded you’ll see it sped around the world at an unprecedented speed. That’s a fact. Initially during February the response by the CDC and Coronavirus task force was focused on a containment and contact tracing strategy. This appears to have been somewhat successful on the west coast. No doubt this was in part due to Trump’s 1/31 travel ban which closed down travel from China. In retrospect, however, while it looks like he shut the front door fast enough he was somewhat tardy in shutting the back door to Europe which is why we had such a big flare-up in flare-up of Covid-19 in New York City. The CDC was forced to change its strategy to a nationwide mitigation strategy. We were told and it was sold to us as something that was temporary till we were able to flatten the curve so that our health care system is not overwhelmed. But now when it appears that our mitigation efforts have started to succeed some, especially on the secular progressive left, want to move the goal posts again and keep the economy shut down till there is a vaccine. That will lead to economic depression that would be greater than the great depression making the so-called cure worse than the disease. Opening up the economy will not be perfect. Perfection as a goal is not attainable. It never has been.john_a_designer
April 22, 2020
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You know what's really depressing? The lack of scientific rigor that's accepted by supposedly scientific-minded people concerning the Covid-19 narrative. You can pretty much make up any story that you like and stake your claim and regurgitate whatever numbers fit your view and no one really knows whats going on. Where the QA? Who's asking for better science? Andrewasauber
April 22, 2020
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To further establish the reality of life after death, I point out that advances in quantum biology have now confirmed that there is indeed a transcendent, i.e. immaterial, component to our being, i.e. a 'soul', that is capable living beyond the death of our material bodies:
Darwinian Materialism vs. Quantum Biology – Part II - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSig2CsjKbg
As Stuart Hameroff states in the following article, the quantum information,,, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed.,,, it's possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.”
Leading Scientists Say Consciousness Cannot Die It Goes Back To The Universe - Oct. 19, 2017 - Spiritual Excerpt: “Let’s say the heart stops beating. The blood stops flowing. The microtubules lose their quantum state. But the quantum information, which is in the microtubules, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed. It just distributes and dissipates to the universe at large. If a patient is resuscitated, revived, this quantum information can go back into the microtubules and the patient says, “I had a near death experience. I saw a white light. I saw a tunnel. I saw my dead relatives.,,” Now if they’re not revived and the patient dies, then it's possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.” - Stuart Hameroff - Quantum Entangled Consciousness - Life After Death - video (5:00 minute mark) https://www.disclose.tv/leading-scientists-say-consciousness-cannot-die-it-goes-back-to-the-universe-315604
To further establish the reality of life after death, I will appeal to Einstin's Special Relativity which is one of our most accurately verified scientific theories ever in the history of science,
what we now know to be true from special relativity, (namely that it outlines a ‘timeless’, i.e. eternal, dimension that exists above this temporal dimension), would fit hand and glove with the personal testimonies of people who have had a deep heavenly NDE is, needless to say, (very) powerful evidence that their testimonies are, in fact, true and that they are accurately describing the ‘reality’ of a higher heavenly dimension that exists above this temporal dimension. I would even go so far as to say that such corroboration from ‘non-physicists’, who know nothing about the intricacies of special relativity, is a complete verification of the overall validity of their personal NDE testimonies. https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/michael-behe-muses-on-design-and-covid-19/#comment-695282
On top of all that evidence for the reality of life after death, I also point to this following piece of evidence. In the following study, materialistic researchers who had a bias against Near Death Experiences being real, set out to try to prove that NDEs were merely ‘false memories’ by setting up a clever questionnaire that could differentiate which memories a person had were real and which memories a person had were merely imaginary. Simply put, these materialistic researchers did not expect the results they got: to quote the headline "'Afterlife' feels 'even more real than real”
'Afterlife' feels 'even more real than real,' researcher says - Wed April 10, 2013 Excerpt: "If you use this questionnaire ... if the memory is real, it's richer, and if the memory is recent, it's richer," he said. The coma scientists weren't expecting what the tests revealed. "To our surprise, NDEs were much richer than any imagined event or any real event of these coma survivors," Laureys reported. The memories of these experiences beat all other memories, hands down, for their vivid sense of reality. "The difference was so vast," he said with a sense of astonishment. Even if the patient had the experience a long time ago, its memory was as rich "as though it was yesterday," Laureys said. http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/health/belgium-near-death-experiences/
It is very interesting to find that life after death feels 'even more real that real'. The reason why this 'more real than real' finding for NDEs is a very interesting it that atheists, in their denial of the reality of God, have lost any objective basis in which to differentiate what is truly real from what is merely illusory.
Basically, because of reductive materialism (and/or methodological naturalism), the atheistic materialist is forced to claim that he is merely a ‘neuronal illusion’ (Coyne, Dennett, etc..), who has the illusion of free will (Harris), who has unreliable, (i.e. illusory), beliefs about reality (Plantinga), who has illusory perceptions of reality (Hoffman), who, since he has no real time empirical evidence substantiating his grandiose claims, must make up illusory “just so stories” with the illusory, and impotent, ‘designer substitute’ of natural selection (Behe, Gould, Sternberg), so as to ‘explain away’ the appearance (i.e. illusion) of design (Crick, Dawkins), and who must make up illusory meanings and purposes for his life since the reality of the nihilism inherent in his atheistic worldview is too much for him to bear (Weikart), and who must also hold morality to be subjective and illusory since he has rejected God (Craig, Kreeft). Who, since beauty cannot be grounded within his materialistic worldview, must hold beauty itself to be illusory (Darwin). Bottom line, nothing is truly real in the atheist’s worldview, least of all, beauty, morality, meaning and purposes for life.,,, Darwinian Materialism and/or Methodological Naturalism vs. Reality – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaksmYceRXM
It would be hard to fathom a worldview more antagonistic to modern science, indeed more antagonistic to reality itself, than Atheistic materialism and/or methodological naturalism have turned out to be.
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Thus in conclusion, while atheists, such as Alex Rosenberg, since his life ends at the grave and his life is therefore objectively meaningless, can give no valid reason why he should even bother getting out of bed in the morning,
"There is no self in, around, or as part of anyone’s body. There can’t be. So there really isn’t any enduring self that ever could wake up morning after morning worrying about why it should bother getting out of bed. The self is just another illusion, like the illusion that thought is about stuff or that we carry around plans and purposes that give meaning to what our body does. Every morning’s introspectively fantasized self is a new one, remarkably similar to the one that consciousness ceased fantasizing when we fell sleep sometime the night before. Whatever purpose yesterday’s self thought it contrived to set the alarm last night, today’s newly fictionalized self is not identical to yesterday’s. It’s on its own, having to deal with the whole problem of why to bother getting out of bed all over again." - Alex Rosenberg, The Atheist’s Guide to Reality, ch.10
,,, while atheists, such as Alex Rosenberg, since his life ends at the grave and his life is therefore objectively meaningless, can give no valid reason why he should even bother getting out of bed in the morning, the Christian, on the other hand, can live his life perfectly happily and consistently knowing full well that life does not end at the grave but that his life is indeed meaningful. To repeat what Dr. Craig said, “If Christianity is true then each one of us is here for a reason. And life does not end at the grave. And God is the absolute standard of goodness. He knows you. He loves you. And He intentionally created you. So your life does have objective meaning, value and purpose. That means you can live a life that is both happy and consistent.”
“If Christianity is true then each one of us is here for a reason. And life does not end at the grave. And God is the absolute standard of goodness. He knows you. He loves you. And He intentionally created you. So your life does have objective meaning, value and purpose. That means you can live a life that is both happy and consistent.” Is There Meaning to Life? - Dr Craig videos (animated video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKGnXgH_CzE
Verse:
Matthew 6: 31-33 Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles strive after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
bornagain77
April 22, 2020
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As to dealing with depression and suicide in general: Which worldview, Christianity or Atheism, is better in dealing with depression and suicide? The answer is, of course, Christianity.
“I maintain that whatever else faith may be, it cannot be a delusion. The advantageous effect of religious belief and spirituality on mental and physical health is one of the best-kept secrets in psychiatry and medicine generally. If the findings of the huge volume of research on this topic had gone in the opposite direction and it had been found that religion damages your mental health, it would have been front-page news in every newspaper in the land.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health - preface “In the majority of studies, religious involvement is correlated with well-being, happiness and life satisfaction; hope and optimism; purpose and meaning in life; higher self-esteem; better adaptation to bereavement; greater social support and less loneliness; lower rates of depression and faster recovery from depression; lower rates of suicide and fewer positive attitudes towards suicide; less anxiety; less psychosis and fewer psychotic tendencies; lower rates of alcohol and drug use and abuse; less delinquency and criminal activity; greater marital stability and satisfaction… We concluded that for the vast majority of people the apparent benefits of devout belief and practice probably outweigh the risks.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health – page 100 https://books.google.com/books?id=PREdCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA100#v=onepage&q&f=false Why Psychology is Turning Back to God - Lewis M. Andrews - December 11, 2018 Excerpt:,,, Today’s psychology tells us that faith can be very helpful in coping with major life setbacks, including divorce, serious illnesses, the death of a loved one, and even natural or human-caused disasters. A study by the RAND Corporation, published in the New England Journal of Medicine just after the 9/11 attacks, found that 90 percent of Americans coped with the trauma by “turning to God.” During the week that followed, 60 percent went to a church or memorial service, and sales of the Bible rose more than 25 percent. Other studies have shown that religious people are less prone to depression and anxiety, are less likely to abuse alcohol and drugs, and have above average immunity to physical diseases. As a result, psychologists are now developing faith-based approaches to treating chronic anger and resentment, the emotional scars of sexual abuse, and eating disorders. https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/why-psychology-turning-back-god Of snakebites and suicide - February 18, 2014 RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/of-snakebites-and-suicide/ Atheism and suicide "Concerning suicide rates, this is the one indicator of societal health in which religious nations fare much better than secular nations. According to the 2003 World Health Organization's report on international male suicides rates (which compared 100 countries), of the top ten nations with the highest male suicide rates, all but one (Sri Lanka) are strongly irreligious nations with high levels of atheism. It is interesting to note, however, that of the top remaining nine nations leading the world in male suicide rates, all are former Soviet/Communist nations, such as Belarus, Ukraine, and Latvia. Of the bottom ten nations with the lowest male suicide rates, all are highly religious nations with statistically insignificant levels of organic atheism."[3] https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_suicide
The reason why Christianity is much better than Atheism in dealing with depression and suicide should not be surprising. Atheism, since it claims that your life ends at the grave, simply denies that there is real and objective meaning, value, and/or purpose to your life. As William Lane Craig pointed out, (If atheism is true) "we await our unavoidable execution. There is no God, and there is no immortality. And what is the consequence of this? It means that life itself is absurd. It means that the life we have is without ultimate significance, value, or purpose."
The Absurdity of Life without God - William Lane Craig Excerpt: If there is no God, then man and the universe are doomed. Like prisoners condemned to death, we await our unavoidable execution. There is no God, and there is no immortality. And what is the consequence of this? It means that life itself is absurd. It means that the life we have is without ultimate significance, value, or purpose. Let's look at each of these.,,, https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/existence-nature-of-god/the-absurdity-of-life-without-god/
Whereas, on the other hand, as Dr. Craig further points out “If Christianity is true then each one of us is here for a reason. And life does not end at the grave. And God is the absolute standard of goodness. He knows you. He loves you. And He intentionally created you. So your life does have objective meaning, value and purpose. That means you can live a life that is both happy and consistent.”
“If Christianity is true then each one of us is here for a reason. And life does not end at the grave. And God is the absolute standard of goodness. He knows you. He loves you. And He intentionally created you. So your life does have objective meaning, value and purpose. That means you can live a life that is both happy and consistent.” Is There Meaning to Life? - Dr Craig videos (animated video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKGnXgH_CzE
As to belief in 'life after death', here is an interesting study that found that knowledge of the afterlife deters suicide.
Knowledge of the afterlife deters suicide.,,, Since McDonagh’s pioneering efforts, other clinicians knowledgeable about the NDE who have had the opportunity to counsel suicidal patients have also reported similar success. Perhaps the most notable of these therapists is Bruce Greyson, a psychiatrist now at the University of Virginia, whose specialty as a clinician has been suicidology. He is also the author of a classic paper on NDEs and suicide which the specialist may wish to consult for its therapeutic implications. (14) Quite apart from the clinicians who have developed this form of what we might call “NDE-assisted therapy,” I can draw upon my own personal experience here to provide additional evidence of how the NDE has helped to deter suicide. The following case,,, http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2015/03/video-lecture-by-john-lennox-explains.html
Thus, in the hope of alleviating any depression that anyone reading this may have, I point out that we have far more evidence substantiating the reality of life after death that we have evidence substantiating any of the claims of Darwinists,
Near-Death Experiences: Putting a Darwinist's Evidentiary Standards to the Test - Dr. Michael Egnor - October 15, 2012 Excerpt: Indeed, about 20 percent of NDE's are corroborated, which means that there are independent ways of checking about the veracity of the experience. The patients knew of things that they could not have known except by extraordinary perception -- such as describing details of surgery that they watched while their heart was stopped, etc. Additionally, many NDE's have a vividness and a sense of intense reality that one does not generally encounter in dreams or hallucinations.,,, The most "parsimonious" explanation -- the simplest scientific explanation -- is that the (Near Death) experience was real. Tens of millions of people have had such experiences. That is tens of millions of more times than we have observed the origin of species , (or the origin of life, or the origin of a protein/gene, or of a molecular machine), which is never.,,, The materialist reaction, in short, is unscientific and close-minded. NDE's show fellows like Coyne at their sneering unscientific irrational worst. Somebody finds a crushed fragment of a fossil and it's earth-shaking evidence. Tens of million of people have life-changing spiritual experiences and it's all a big yawn. Note: Dr. Egnor is professor and vice-chairman of neurosurgery at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/10/near_death_expe_1065301.html
bornagain77
April 22, 2020
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BA, yes, sadly relevant concerns. KFkairosfocus
April 22, 2020
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Influenza kills an average of 500,000 people every year in the world. COVID-19 has yet to reach 200,000 deaths. Cities with high populations, like Mumbai, are too densely populated to have distance between people. Gangs in the inner cities within the United States continue to carry out the same activities they were prior to draconian measures being taken. Drug dealers, prostitutes, shootings, etc., continue and none of those activities are done with social distance. For something that is proving to be less deadly than influenza, the cure is far worse than the disease. As AaronS1978 pointed out in the first post, there are almost 330,000 suicides so fare. Not quite as many lives lost to influenza, but more than COVID-19. When all people hear are doom and gloom, they tend to lose hope. The draconian measures that have brought police states to the United States, in the name of the public good, has removed any means of relieving stress people used to have at their disposal. One can no longer go to a bar and relax. Those stresses build over time and are finding release through violence in the home. There's a reason we are seeing a massive increase in domestic violence.BobRyan
April 22, 2020
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Suicide 329,053 this yearAaronS1978
April 22, 2020
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