DEVELOPING, the US Supreme Court reverses Roe v Wade (is it cry havoc?)

_{kairosfocus
June 24, 2022

Defending our Civilization, Ethics, Intelligent Design, News Highlights, Politics, rhetoric

3}_{Categories
Defending our Civilization
Ethics
Intelligent Design
News Highlights
Politics
rhetoric}

Share: Facebook; Twitter/X; LinkedIn; Flipboard; Print; Email

Having returned from a shopping trip to Junction, Jamaica [here for 4x bereavement reasons], I noticed news as captioned. I clip:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/06/24/supreme-court-overrules-roe-v-wade-in-dobbs/

Supreme Court Overrules Roe v. Wade in Dobbs Decision – Returns Abortion to State Lawmakers
WASHINGTON, DC – The Supreme Court overruled Roe v. Wade on Friday, holding in the Dobbs case that the Constitution does not include a right to abortion and returning the issue of abortion laws and regulations to state legislatures.
Justice Samuel Alito wrote for the Supreme Court in Friday’s ~~5-4~~ [–> 6-3] decision:
>>Abortion presents a profound moral question. The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each State from regulating or prohibiting abortion. Roe and Casey arrogated that authority. We now overrule those decisions and return the authority to the people and their elected representatives.>>
Roe was handed down in 1973 in a 7-2 decision, holding that the U.S. Constitution includes a constitutional right to abortion, despite the fact that abortion is not found in the text, structure, or history of the Constitution, and the nation went more than 180 years without ever noticing it existed. It has been one of the most divisive legal issues in American history.
An early draft of Alito’s opinion leaked in May, the first such leak of a full opinion in the 233-year history of the Supreme Court, leading the left to violent protests, including destroying a pro-life center in Wisconsin, vandalizing churches, and threatening protests at the home of conservatives justices in violation of federal law.
These threats have culminated in what was almost an assassination attempt of Justice Brett Kavanaugh, which went seemingly unnoticed by President Joe Biden – who did not speak out to condemn it – and has led to rapid action on a new federal law to protect the justices. The court majority evidently stood firm against the threats and public pressure, overruling Roe and the later revision of Roe in 1992, Planned Parenthood v. Casey.
With Roe overruled, the issue of abortion now goes back to the states to pass whatever restrictions on abortions the voters of each state choose to adopt.

This is an issue that pivots on life, the first right, and lurking within is, what is law and what may a civil authority legitimately rule as law. DEVELOPING

Comments

JHolo:I realize that this is off topic but it might be interesting to have a separate thread about health care in the US versus that in other countries. Especially given the fact that the US spends the most per capita on health care and has one of the lowest life expectancies of developed nations. Do you have a point to make? Or an agenda to push? If so, what?Paxx_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
09:30 PM
9
09
30
PM
PDT}

LCD: 5 min ago you advertized for killing babies and now you talk about health care? Somebody has mental issues.
You must have a serious reading comprehension issue. Where exactly did I advertise for killing babies?JHolo_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
07:28 PM
7
07
28
PM
PDT}

JHolo I realize that this is off topic but it might be interesting to have a separate thread about health care
5 min ago you advertized for killing babies and now you talk about health care? Somebody has mental issues.Lieutenant Commander Data_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
06:22 PM
6
06
22
PM
PDT}

I realize that this is off topic but it might be interesting to have a separate thread about health care in the US versus that in other countries. Especially given the fact that the US spends the most per capita on health care and has one of the lowest life expectancies of developed nations. https://twitter.com/andy23tran/status/1547244767733506050?s=21&t=E2qiV0RublEZ5-ZxlGCJNAJHolo_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
04:15 PM
4
04
15
PM
PDT}

JVL:
When did the intelligently designed reproductive system exist? Does that mean that intelligent design is no longer affecting human evolution? When did it stop?
With the originally designed organisms. No. It didn't. Humans can evolve by changing our behavior. We can adapt by changing or behavior.ET_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
03:48 PM
3
03
48
PM
PDT}

Andrew at 463, Since the late 1960s, a campaign began to "normalize" sex outside of marriage, to "normalize" contraceptives, to "normalize" disordered sexual behavior. Why? One reason was to get others who were not doing this to join in. Total strangers came to my neighborhood, and neighborhoods around the U.S. and they promoted this along with illegal drug use. They wanted people to think 'sex for pleasure' was OK. Sex in marriage only? They didn't want that. So they want you and me to accept their ideas, including the ultimate form of birth control - abortion. "Abortion on Demand!" And they tell people no one dies in the process? What? There's no baby in there? That's crazy.relatd_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
02:06 PM
2
02
06
PM
PDT}

It's amazing (but not surprising) that some are so devoted to such a barbaric practice as abortion is. Why? Why not be so devoted to planting flowers instead? or cleaning up trash? Andrewasauber_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
01:53 PM
1
01
53
PM
PDT}

Seversky: Christians inveigh about the “Holocaust” of the millions of aborted unborn but are strangely silent about the billions of unborn that have lost in miscarriages due to a poorly-designed reproductive system. The blame for all those deaths can be laid fairly and squarely at the Designer’s door, although He appears to be totally unconcerned about it. Which raises the question of, if God couldn’t care about the deaths of the unborn, why are His followers? If there is a Creator, then I would imagine he knows what he's doing, and I'll let him do it. If there's no Creator, then it doesn't matter. And you can apply this to any of the undesirable things that happen on earth. Theodicy, which beyond the scope of the abortion question. I doubt you want to start that conversation. At any rate, a miscarriage is not intentionally performed by a human. An abortion is. If i'm sitting next to a man and he drops dead from a heart attack, it isn't my fault. If I stab him to death, it's my fault. That's the difference between miscarriage and abortion. Heart attacks and miscarriages are outside the purview of the legal system. Abortion and murder are not. One need not bring religious considerations in the abortion fray. It comes down to a matter of human rights, which I rarely see the radical pro-aborts acknowledge. "Abortion, safe, legal, and rare", is what I heard Hillary Clinton say back in the 90s. They don't say that any more. Abortion-as-mere-convenience no matter what stage of gestation is fully embraced these days. Some of us are shocked by this as a matter of humans rights and the evolving views of the young when it comes to these matters. Dangerous territory.Paxx_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
01:44 PM
1
01
44
PM
PDT}

Seversky: By that rationale, the Court should be taking a closer look at the 13th Amendment. given that there was a longstanding tradition of slavery in the US. The 13th amendment explicitly outlawed slavery everywhere in the USA. There is no such explicit Constitutional right to an abortion. Moreover, statutory "black letter" law generally trumps judicial "common law" rulings in the USA. One could argue that there was a common law right to an abortion, particularly given the commonly held notion of "quickening" in the 1700s and prior, but common law is judicial case law, which can change over time as new evidence accumulates and other considerations come into play. In the early 1800s abortion began to be opposed by physicians due to new understanding of human embryonic development, which brought the notion of "quickening" into suspicion, which led to statuatory laws being enacted that overrode previous judicial "common law" rulings. Roe vs Wade essentially came down to common law and privacy issues with the SCOTUS at the time. The current SCOTUS disagreed and reversed, thus kicking it back to the states. This is how the legal system works in the USA. If you want the right to an abortion to be enshrined as a Constitutional right in the USA, then a Constitutional amendment will be required. (Individual states may pass their own state constitutional amendments. I imagine CA will probably do that eventually. Again, this is how it works in the USA.)Paxx_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
01:14 PM
1
01
14
PM
PDT}

ET: Today’s reproductive system is NOT the intelligently designed reproductive system. When did the intelligently designed reproductive system exist? Does that mean that intelligent design is no longer affecting human evolution? When did it stop?JVL_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
09:05 AM
9
09
05
AM
PDT}

Sewersky the billions of unborn that have lost in miscarriages due to a poorly-designed reproductive system.
Don't forget to mention about your poorly designed brain. :lol:Lieutenant Commander Data_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
08:08 AM
8
08
08
AM
PDT}

Seversky at 451, You know what you sound like? The GUY DOWN THE STREET IS BAD !!! ALL people who live one block away from me are BAD !!! That's idiotic. The Rest is taken from the LATEST Leftist Action Bulletin. Just because you can find one Christian pastor who says bad things does not mean all Christian pastors are bad. Jesus did not advocate for the death penalty. So stop it.relatd_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
08:02 AM
8
08
02
AM
PDT}

JH at 441, You appear to be here to help market disordered sexual behavior. That needs to be pointed out. And who the heck are you to accuse others of "puritanical religious views"? The correct word is beliefs and ordered human sexual behaviors. Guilt-free sexual activity outside of marriage is the goal here. That's all you're doing. It's wrong. We, as human beings, need appropriate guilt, an appropriate sense of shame and a desire to limit sexual activities to marriage, nowhere else. All you're saying is: "Hey man. If it feels good do it." Self-control and self-discipline are important things to teach your kids.relatd_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
07:57 AM
7
07
57
AM
PDT}

seversky:
Christians inveigh about the “Holocaust” of the millions of aborted unborn but are strangely silent about the billions of unborn that have lost in miscarriages due to a poorly-designed reproductive system.
You are a clueless loser. Today's reproductive system is NOT the intelligently designed reproductive system. Grow up.ET_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
07:37 AM
7
07
37
AM
PDT}

seversky:
Quite so, thereby creating a situation in which abortion may be perfectly legal in one state but a criminal offense punishable by imprisonment or even the death penalty in a neighboring state.
Only sick and pathetic people advocate for the ending of an innocent human's life.ET_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
07:36 AM
7
07
36
AM
PDT}

PS, we could equally argue that the unborn child, even of a rape, is a living human creature and has an inherent right to life. Similarly, what if we were to argue that the Supreme Court had a 60+ year aberration as an arm of secularist social engineering, manned by radicals; the issue is the soundness of the constitutional point made by Alito. It is noticeable that by and large there is little on the actual merits being raised by objectors. As for various disorders of sexual conduct and of identity etc, those can only be soundly resolved once we understand and acknowledge first, built in, self evident, branch on which we sit law. Which, conspicuously your side tries to caricature and dismiss. That tells us, we are dealing with crooked yardstick thinking and it can only be resolved by exposing the crookedness of the yardsticks. KF PS, for convenience, I again put up the algebra on moral knowledge, which includes knowledge of justice, due balance of rights, freedoms, duties. If a claimed right would impose habitual lying on us, or enabling of manifest evil, or participation in it, then it cannot be a valid right. Where, my right implies your duty. Yes, justice is a major moral issue and so, contrary to some common assertions, law is inevitably inextricably intertwined with core moral questions tied to justice. Now, the algebra:
Objective moral truth is widely denied in our day, for many it isn't even a remotely plausible possibility. And yet, as we will shortly see, it is undeniably true. This marginalisation of moral knowledge, in extreme form, is a key thesis of the nihilism that haunts our civilisation, which we must detect, expose to the light of day, correct and dispel, in defence of civilisation and human dignity. Let a proposition be represented by x M = x is a proposition asserting that some state of affairs regarding right conduct, duty/ought, virtue/honour, good/evil etc (i.e. the subject is morality) is the case [--> truth claim] O = x is objective and generally knowable, being adequately warranted as credibly true [--> notice, generally knowable per adequate warrant, as opposed to widely acknowledged] It is claimed, cultural relativism thesis: S= ~[O*M] = 1
[ NB: Plato, The Laws, Bk X, c 360 BC, in the voice of Athenian Stranger: "[Thus, the Sophists and other opinion leaders etc -- c 430 BC on, hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made." This IMPLIES the Cultural Relativism Thesis, by highlighting disputes (among an error-prone and quarrelsome race!), changing/varied opinions, suggesting that dominance of a view in a place/time is a matter of balance of factions/rulings, and denying that there is an intelligible, warranted natural law. Of course, subjectivism then reduces the scale of "community" to one individual. He continues, "These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might . . . " [--> door opened to nihilistic factionalism]]
However, the subject of S is M, it therefore claims to be objectively true, O, and is about M where it forbids O-status to any claim of type-M so, ~[O*M] cannot be true per self referential incoherence [--> reductio ad absurdum] ++++++++++ ~[O*M] = 0 [as self referential and incoherent cf above] ~[~[O*M]] = 1 [the negation is therefore true] __________ O*M = 1 [condensing not of not] where, M [moral truth claim] So too, O [if an AND is true, each sub proposition is separately true] That is, there UNDENIABLY are objective moral truths; and a first, self-evident one is that ~[O*M] is false. The set is non empty, it is not vacuous and we cannot play empty set square of opposition games with it. That’s important.
Your answer? __________kairosfocus_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
07:29 AM
7
07
29
AM
PDT}

Paxx/446
SCOTUS did not rule on the rights, nature or experience of the unborn. SCOTUS simply overturned a former SCOTUS ruling, removing the federal government from the abortion issue, kicking it back to the individual state legislatures and courts.
Quite so, thereby creating a situation in which abortion may be perfectly legal in one state but a criminal offense punishable by imprisonment or even the death penalty in a neighboring state. By that rationale, the Court should be taking a closer look at the 13th Amendment. given that there was a longstanding tradition of slavery in the US. Maybe that should be returned to the purview of the states so that there could again be slave-owning states and free states and the basis for another civil war.Seversky_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
07:20 AM
7
07
20
AM
PDT}

Seversky, if a natural process miscarries, that is worlds different from willful slaughter of our living posterity in the womb. We know, atheists are desperate to resurrect the problem of evils but it failed 50 years ago once Plantinga's free will defence was on the table. Which is a general defence. Maybe, progres with medicine will reduce miscarriages, but that has nothing to do with our responsibility for 1.4 billion of our living posterity killed since the early 70s, and rising at another million per week. This is a civilisation sustainability issue. KFkairosfocus_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
07:14 AM
7
07
14
AM
PDT}

Christians inveigh about the "Holocaust" of the millions of aborted unborn but are strangely silent about the billions of unborn that have lost in miscarriages due to a poorly-designed reproductive system. The blame for all those deaths can be laid fairly and squarely at the Designer's door, although He appears to be totally unconcerned about it. Which raises the question of, if God couldn't care about the deaths of the unborn, why are His followers? Nobody is advocating for ending an innocent human life for no good reason but there are "good" Christians who are advocating for mothers and medical staff involve in abortion to be thrown in prison or even, in the most extreme cases, prosecuted for murder in which the death penalty is an option. There are "good" Christians who advocate for no exceptions in the case of rape or incest so women and girls who become pregnant following those traumatic assaults will be forced - forced - by the state to carry those fetuses to term, regardless of the victim's wishes. There are cases of women who have died from medical complications in pregnancy because the doctors were prevented from aborting the pregnancy to save the mother's life by the ethical regulations imposed by "good" Christians There is that "good" Christian pastor in Texas who preached that homosexuality should be made a criminal offense carrying the death penalty, that gays should be rounded up and, if convicted, should be executed by being shot in the back of the head. Finally, there is the Supreme Court majority of "good" Catholic Christians who, having denied a woman's right to elective abortion, are now moving on to contraception, same-sex marriage, LGBTQ rights, possibly even mixed race marriage and restoring racial segregation. Why not? By Alito's absurd test there is no deep, historical tradition of mixed-race marriages in the US but there is a well-established tradition of racial segregation there. Come to think of it, there's no long history in the US of women having the right to vote or own property. Maybe SCOTUS will be taking a fresh look at those. Abort the Court!Seversky_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
06:49 AM
6
06
49
AM
PDT}

JH is an abortion zealot. No chance of a reasonable conversation there. Andrewasauber_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
05:39 AM
5
05
39
AM
PDT}

Only the pathetic and sick of mind advocate to end the life of an innocent human. JHolo advocates to end the life of an innocent human.ET_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
05:33 AM
5
05
33
AM
PDT}

Paxx, correct, the Supreme Court identified and corrected extra-constitutional over-reach pivoting on emanations and penumbras as imagined. Alito et al, with fifty years of growing chaos, laid out why and for cause returned to status quo as at 1972. It is obvious that the radicals know that after fifty years, they will not win the public over in key areas to support continued mass slaughter of our living posterity. More subtly, they see repudiation of judicial activism that turned the court into a nine member monarchy ruling by decree on excuse of judicial decisions. KFkairosfocus_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
05:04 AM
5
05
04
AM
PDT}

JHolo I have said their is nothing wrong with homosexuality.
What you say has no relevance for sane people. Sane people know what is the purpose of sexual organs . Probably you had /have homosexual experiences but hey who I am to tell you not to play with feces in your room but to advertize(what you do) is totally different problem.
JHolo: I still think that the early embryo is a mass of unfeeling no conscious cells. "
Early embryo is smarter and more conscious than you.Lieutenant Commander Data_{July 13, 2022
July
07
Jul
13
13
2022
04:16 AM
4
04
16
AM
PDT}

JHolo: "I still think that the early embryo is a mass of unfeeling no conscious cells. But obviously the SCOTUS ... think[s] otherwise." SCOTUS did not rule on the rights, nature or experience of the unborn. SCOTUS simply overturned a former SCOTUS ruling, removing the federal government from the abortion issue, kicking it back to the individual state legislatures and courts.Paxx_{July 12, 2022
July
07
Jul
12
12
2022
10:46 PM
10
10
46
PM
PDT}

“Let’s stick with one of your despised behaviours.” Yes let’s stick with two of his despised behaviors, your lying and slander. Vividvividbleau_{July 12, 2022
July
07
Jul
12
12
2022
06:05 PM
6
06
05
PM
PDT}

JH, personalisation and polarisation riding on dragging into needless and vulgar topics already answered; but from the abundance of the heart for good or ill the mouth speaks. Trollish conduct, consider this a warning from the thread owner. KFkairosfocus_{July 12, 2022
July
07
Jul
12
12
2022
06:04 PM
6
06
04
PM
PDT}

KF, you appear to despise anything that I say. Let’s stick with one of your despised behaviours. Masturbation. https://amp.mindbodygreen.com/articles/yes-masturbating-is-good-for-you-17-feel-good-benefits--18581JHolo_{July 12, 2022
July
07
Jul
12
12
2022
05:59 PM
5
05
59
PM
PDT}

JH, subject switching. You know the intemperate and nihilistic accusation you tossed into the thread. KFkairosfocus_{July 12, 2022
July
07
Jul
12
12
2022
05:44 PM
5
05
44
PM
PDT}

Let’s examine what is being discussed. I have said that there is nothing wrong with premarital sex. You have equated that with promiscuity and STDs. Not the same thing. I have said their is nothing wrong with homosexuality. Again, you have equated that with gay orgies and HIV. Not the same thing. I have said that there is nothing wrong with masturbation. You have equated that with porn addiction. Again not the same thing. I have said that there is nothing wrong with same sex marriage, or people who express themselves as transgendered. You have equated that with “disordered sexuality”. Yet accepting it has reduced suicide rates. Although I have never had a homosexual relationship, I don’t see anything wrong with it. I have had a handful of premarital sexual relationships. Each one monogamous at the time. I don’t regret any of them. Even though I have been happily married for almost 40 years, I still masturbate on occasion. And I don’t feel guilty about it. I defy you to explain why any of this is wrong. And try to do so without invoking your puritanical religious views.JHolo_{July 12, 2022
July
07
Jul
12
12
2022
05:36 PM
5
05
36
PM
PDT}

JH, you know full well just what you are trying by this stunt. And no, this is not opinion, that went out the door when 200+ comments ago, your side ducked addressing Alito on points with a convincing refutation. That says, you have no sound answer on the merits. And just by slandering as liars you are demanding for what you favour the status of laws of the Medes and Persians that were blocked from amendment. Further, by playing at by "asking" questions, inquisitors sitting in the Senate would be given power to entrap and bias judges into pre made arbitrary decisions on pain of impeachment for allegedly lying to Congress. If you do not see the inherent, nihilistic power grab and injustice in that, I have fine Caribbean Beach Front property in Montana to sell you. So, we know that you are lying, as Vivid pointed out. Lying and projecting accusations of lying to slander others. Slander, in the cause of enabling the worst mass slaughter of the innocent in history. Please, think again. KFkairosfocus_{July 12, 2022
July
07
Jul
12
12
2022
05:28 PM
5
05
28
PM
PDT}

Prev 1 2 3 4 … 17 Next

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Leave a Reply