Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

ET does not have a “power” area code in the Milky Way?

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

Not like 212? Better to look in the ‘burbs, the spiral arms.

From Science:

Observations from NASA’s Kepler space telescope strongly suggest that, “basically every star has a planet, on average, which is pretty mind-boggling,” Forgan says. Because the team’s simulation has many stars in the inner regions of galaxies, many planets form there, and some will be habitable but with a low chance of escaping irradiation from supernovae. The odds of a planetary system containing habitable worlds far enough away from these stellar explosions increases far from the galactic center, peaking in the outer edges of the spiral arms, the team will report in an upcoming issue of the International Journal of Astrobiology.

Forgan and his team also widened the scope of their model to account for objects beyond the Milky Way’s spiral arms. These include filamentlike streams of stars—remnants of galactic collisions—as well as small “satellite” galaxies orbiting the Milky Way. These objects turn out to have “pockets of habitability,” with many life-friendly stars beyond where astronomers have traditionally pointed their telescopes. More.

See also: Don’t let Mars fool you. Those exoplanets teem with life!

and

How do we grapple with the idea that ET might not be out there?

Note: Other prestigious area codes, for readers who would rather not have a phone number than have a phone number “anyone could have.” Checking notes here: We have no such readers, but this is fun anyway. Also, prestigious postal codes.

Comments
Care to elaborate?
The only other people I've discussed with that have made those same comments are the same people who believe spontaneous generation + probablymaybecouldness = life.Vy
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
07:45 AM
7
07
45
AM
PDT
Aleta, the doubly slanderous phrase Gish gallop tells me you are not serious. Gish on easily accessible public record won hundreds of debates on the substance that the fossils did not fit the narrative, a fact that led to the punctuated equilibria school of thought. Above, you tossed off loaded points which I addressed by drawing out implications and outlining a due response. You resorted to a term which is an accusation of dishonesty. You have not dealt with the substantial issues. This is dismiss, then on challenge, distract, distort, denigrate to double down. You failed to deal with the substance, which strongly suggests you cannot. KFkairosfocus
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
07:42 AM
7
07
42
AM
PDT
The universe is unimaginably huge and we have had a vanishingly small sample size with regards to the content of other planets.
You don't seem to get it. What is supposed to be populating those undetected earths? Why are they supposed to be populated?Vy
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
07:39 AM
7
07
39
AM
PDT
Vy: Given the constant failure to find anything that remotely looks like Earth or even meets 50% – 75% of the general requirements for life for the last umpteen years? Absolutely. The universe is unimaginably huge and so far we have had a vanishingly small sample size with regards to the content of other planets. I think it is unreasonable one way or another to make definitive conclusions based on the current sample size. Either possibility would be consistent with our current findings. Vy: Can you think of any naturalistic mechanism to form life? Mike: No. What prompted you to ask me that? Your answer merely quoted me. I still don't know why you would ask me that since I have promoted no "naturalistic mechanism." Care to elaborate?mike1962
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
07:26 AM
7
07
26
AM
PDT
Do you think it is more reasonable given the evidence that there is no life anywhere except on earth?
Given the constant failure to find anything that remotely looks like Earth or even meets 50% - 75% of the general requirements for life for the last umpteen years? Absolutely.
What prompted you to ask me that?
I can’t think of any reason except a religious one why anyone would object to the idea of the existence of ETs. --- If there is a creator, why would they populate only a single planet in the entire universe? That would seems like a colossal waste of resources
Vy
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
06:54 AM
6
06
54
AM
PDT
anthropic: Are these scientific arguments, or theological ones based on speculation about what God might or might not do? Theological. anthropic: And Mike, the idea of “waste” for a being of infinite resources isn’t even wrong. Category error. Which category? Vy: Based on what? Your gut feeling? I already alluded to it: the size of the universe and the fact that we don't have access to much of it. Do you think it is more reasonable given the evidence that there is no life anywhere except on earth? If so, why? Vy: Can you think of any naturalistic mechanism to form life? No. What prompted you to ask me that?mike1962
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
06:42 AM
6
06
42
AM
PDT
I'll point out that at last some of kf points are practically incomprehensible:
3 –> You do not have to agree, just, recognise that there is in fact a documented universality across humanity in the tradition starting from that God has made the nations of one blood and has control of place time and peoplehood.
That is one mess of a sentence, I have no idea what it means, and it is irrelevant to my point. That's why I, and I'm sure I speak for others, make no attempt to parse the stuff kf writes.Aleta
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
06:42 AM
6
06
42
AM
PDT
I made a point, and kf brought up all sorts of issues not even related to my point. I'm not obligated in any way to respond to all that.Aleta
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
06:36 AM
6
06
36
AM
PDT
It's a real shame, kf, when people simply refuse to address the issues.Mung
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
06:28 AM
6
06
28
AM
PDT
kf, because all the rest of the stuff you've said is a Gish-gallop mish-mash of points you've made a jillion times, and I know from experience that "discussing" things with you is not worth my time. Your continual name-calling is by itself one reason to not discuss things with you.Aleta
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
06:14 AM
6
06
14
AM
PDT
Aleta, you need to look at the implications of your sweepingly dismissive talking points above, and you need to face the substantial issues on the table in outline. So far I am only seeing now arguing to the man not the issue. KFkairosfocus
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
06:04 AM
6
06
04
AM
PDT
to anthropic at 3: I would say my observation is anthropological and philosophical. Also, when I wrote that the Christian God story involved God singling out "one small group of relatively primitive people", kf started his typical type of post on this matter by writing
1 –> Your presentation of the Judaeo-Christian tradition is strawmannish and prejudicial. Your avoiding saying Jews indicates your evasion of the implicit hostility to that great people.
Man, talking about making a mountain out of a non-existent molehill, and making a negative, hostile judgment for absolutely no good reason. Weird.Aleta
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
05:56 AM
5
05
56
AM
PDT
Aleta:
The whole idea that the God of Christianity singled out not just this planet but one small group of relatively primitive people on it as the sole focus of his attention is, in itself, sufficient reason to believe that the story of that God is not true.
This caught my eye, and it seems to be a case of conclusion in hand (reject the Judaeo-Christian tradition) let's find a talking point to dismiss any alternative without regard to substantial warrant. 1 --> Your presentation of the Judaeo-Christian tradition is strawmannish and prejudicial. Your avoiding saying Jews indicates your evasion of the implicit hostility to that great people. 2 --> You need to read say Ac 17 and Rom 1 - 2 with unprejudiced eyes, and to recognise that in us all is a voice of conscience and mind within and a pointing cosmos without. In that same despised tradition, the conscience within is highlighted as God's candle that when undimmed and undistorted points to God. 3 --> You do not have to agree, just, recognise that there is in fact a documented universality across humanity in the tradition starting from that God has made the nations of one blood and has control of place time and peoplehood. 4 --> In that context, Messiah in Judaism and messiah fulfilled in Christianity is universal through a great global gospel commission. 5 --> The Jews as covenant family and nation are a vehicle of blessing to the whole world, not oh God cares nothing about anyone else. That, is blood-laced slander that you echo, however much you hesitate and resort to euphemism.. 6 --> You then commit the error of the Drake Eqn. By guessed at parameters and estimates, it proposed that we ought to expect a great many high tech civilisations in our galaxy. 8 --> Such reasoning is countered by the many indicia of fine tuning that makes ours a privileged and likely rare planet, save by design. 9 --> In short the evidence makes design of our system a serious contender, and likely other habitable systems, if they exist. Which would instantly demolish the oh God does not care for others rhetorical gambit that builds on the already implicit hostility to Jews and Christians. 10 --> Where of course the data points of observed ETs are conspicuously missing. More prejudice laden guesswork. 11 --> Beyond, the fact is that it is at minimum arguable that a genuine nothing has no capacities, non-being cannot act. So if there were ever utter non-being, such would forever obtain. Those who would wish otherwise need to show good evidence. 12 --> If something now is, credibly something always was, independent of other things and integral to the framework of a possible world. 13 --> Necessary being, where once a serious candidate is on the table -- flying spaghetti monsters et al need not apply -- will either be actual or impossible, as 2 + 3 = 5 is actual and as square circles are impossible. 14 --> God is a serious candidate NB and there is no good argument that God is impossible. Atheists these days cannot properly appeal to arguments from evil post Plantinga free will defense or even Boethius on if no God then whence the good -- 1500 years ago. 15 --> Multiply by evidence of fine tuning and beginning pointing to a designed cosmos, evidence of FSCO/I in life forms and evidence that we are responsibly free rationally contemplative minded morally governed beings with moral law written into conscience, and that strongly points to the God of ethical theism. 16 --> Bring to bear the biblical tradition and its prophecies of messiah combined with the eyewitness lifetime record, including the 500 unshakable witnesses of the resurrection. In short, there is a serious case to answer that is being rhetorically swept away instead of substantially faced. Which is exactly what Rom 1 - 2 warns against. KFkairosfocus
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
05:45 AM
5
05
45
AM
PDT
I wonder how the probablymaybecouldnessdidit and ETDidIt camps get past thisVy
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
02:39 AM
2
02
39
AM
PDT
It’s not reasonable to rule out ETs in the galaxy or elsewhere.
Based on what? Your gut feeling? The ability of Hollywood to model imaginary aliens? The Speed Force? The "tendency" of life to pop out of Neverland? The Powerpuff girls chemical soup? Stuff Happens Law? SETI's inability to find even Earth-ejected bacteria on another planet? Because "OMG, we found water!!!!!"??? The universe is too big for just us?Vy
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
02:11 AM
2
02
11
AM
PDT
And if the universe was created with every planet having humanoid creatures, Aleta would be talking about how our seemingly insignificant position is "sufficient reason to believe that the story of that God is not true" or if the universe was just one solar system large, Mike would be talking about how it's such an inadequate display of God's power.
I can’t think of any reason except a religious one why anyone would object to the idea of the existence of ETs.
Can you think of any naturalistic mechanism to form life? Realize that chemical evolution (aka spontaneous generation) + probablymaybecouldness = biological evolution is something that exists only in the imagination of the believers.Vy
December 30, 2015
December
12
Dec
30
30
2015
01:43 AM
1
01
43
AM
PDT
Mike 1 'If there is a creator, why would they populate only a single planet in the entire universe? That would seems like a colossal waste of resources." Aleta 2 "The whole idea that the God of Christianity singled out not just this planet but one small group of relatively primitive people on it as the sole focus of his attention is, in itself, sufficient reason to believe that the story of that God is not true." Are these scientific arguments, or theological ones based on speculation about what God might or might not do? And Mike, the idea of "waste" for a being of infinite resources isn't even wrong. Category error.anthropic
December 29, 2015
December
12
Dec
29
29
2015
10:49 PM
10
10
49
PM
PDT
The whole idea that the God of Christianity singled out not just this planet but one small group of relatively primitive people on it as the sole focus of his attention is, in itself, sufficient reason to believe that the story of that God is not true.Aleta
December 29, 2015
December
12
Dec
29
29
2015
08:12 PM
8
08
12
PM
PDT
"Many people assume that if you doubt the existence of extraterrestrials, you must have a hidden religious reason." I can't think of any reason except a religious one why anyone would object to the idea of the existence of ETs. "Continuing lack of evidence is sufficient reason for doubting Bigfoot, these critics agree, but not ET." There are very few places, if any, where humans haven't trampled underfoot on our planet. The galaxy is a helluvalot bigger, and we have virtually no access. It's reasonable to rule out bigfoot based on our explorations of earth. It's not reasonable to rule out ETs in the galaxy or elsewhere. If there is a creator, why would they populate only a single planet in the entire universe? That would seems like a colossal waste of resources.mike1962
December 29, 2015
December
12
Dec
29
29
2015
10:57 AM
10
10
57
AM
PDT
1 2

Leave a Reply