A great physicist warned us, information precedes matter and energy: Bit before it:

The COVID-19 virus contains about as much information as a sticker in WhatsApp. Walter Bradley Center director Robert J. Marks and Dr. Daniel Andrés Díaz-Pachón explore a dreadful truth: “Human biology is so finely tuned that less than a kilobyte of information can stop the world.”:

Daniel Andrés Díaz-Pachón: I really think that information is more fundamental to nature than matter and energy and what we are seeing here is how this small amount of information can produce a big change. Not only in a small area; it’s the whole world that is paralyzed…

There is a primacy of information, as some physicists have said in the past. It’s the idea that information come before matter and that it is the primary stuff of the universe. That does not prove that information is generating matter or energy but what it shows is how a small amount of information can produce a big change in a lot of things that we know. –

Mind Matters News

*Further reading on information in life forms:* The brain exceeds the most powerful computers in efficiency. Human thinking takes vastly less computational effort to arrive at the same conclusions. *(Eric Holloway)*

Information is about something. If there’s no matter or energy, there’s nothing for there to be information about.

Sev

The point of the debate is whether matter and energy is all there is. Your statement assumes your conclusion to that question. That you don’t understand this, points to a fundamental confusion about the terms of the debate.

Consider this: What matter and energy is the number 4 about? I don’t mean 4 “of something.” I mean the concept of 4. What matter and energy is the concept of a triangle about? I don’t mean a particular triangle. I mean the concept of triangles.

This is silly and illogical. It wasn’t the virus that stopped the world.

The virus just wandered around and found tissues to infect, and the humans who own the tissues killed the virus using standard weapons and tactics. A very few humans were unable to maintain the war, and they lost.

The world was stopped by GOVERNMENTS. The virus was just the latest fake “reason” for stopping the world.

Seversky states,

In other words, Seversky is trying to claim that information is dependent on matter and energy for its existence. i.e. Seversky assumes that atheistic materialism is true and that information does not exist if matter and energy do not exist.

In reply, Mr. Arrington appeals, via classical philosophy, to the Platonic world of mathematics.

And indeed Mathematics itself exists in a transcendent, beyond space and time, immaterial realm. A immaterial realm which simply is not reducible any possible material explanation. This transcendent mathematical realm has, for centuries if not for thousands of years, been referred to as a Platonic mathematical world.

And indeed classical philosophers, as well as later Christian philosophers, had developed the argument for God from mathematics to a fairly high degree.

As David Berlinski states in the following article, “There is no argument against religion that is not also an argument against mathematics. Mathematicians are capable of grasping a world of objects that lies beyond space and time…. The number four, after all, did not come into existence at a particular time, and it is not going to go out of existence at another time. It is neither here nor there. Nonetheless we are in some sense able to grasp the number by a faculty of our minds. Mathematical intuition is utterly mysterious.

Simply put, Mathematics itself, contrary to the materialistic presuppositions of Darwinists, does not need the physical world in order to exist. And yet Darwinists, although they deny that anything beyond the material realm exists, need this transcendent, i.e. beyond space and time, world of mathematics in order for their theory to even be considered scientific in the first place.

The predicament that Darwinists find themselves in regards to denying the objective reality of this transcendent, immaterial, world of mathematics, and yet needing validation from immaterial mathematics should be the very definition of a scientifically self-refuting worldview.

As M. Anthony Mills states, “In fact, more problematic for the materialist than the non-existence of persons is the existence of mathematics. Why? Although a committed materialist might be perfectly willing to accept that you do not really exist, he will have a harder time accepting that numbers do not exist. The trouble is that numbers — along with other mathematical entities such as classes, sets, and functions — are indispensable for modern science. And yet — here’s the rub — these “abstract objects” are not material. Thus, one cannot take science as the only sure guide to reality and at the same time discount disbelief in all immaterial realities.”

Moreover, as should be obvious by now, the fact that man himself, via his immaterial mind, can access and use this Platonic, beyond space and time, immaterial world of mathematics, offers proof that man must also have a transcendent, beyond space and time, immaterial soul. As Charles Darwin’s contemporary, Alfred Russel Wallace himself noted, “Nothing in evolution can account for the soul of man. The difference between man and the other animals is unbridgeable. Mathematics is alone sufficient to prove in man the possession of a faculty unexistent in other creatures. Then you have music and the artistic faculty. No, the soul was a separate creation.”

I have a question for you Seversky.

And while the classical philosophical argument from mathematical Platonism is certainly a very powerful argument against Seversky’s atheistic materialism, due to the almost miraculous advances in technology and empirical science, we can now add substantiating scientific evidence to that classical philosophical argument.

In regards to technology, if it were not for the ‘top-down’ control of immaterial mathematics telling material substrates how to behave, none of our modern technology would exist.

As Peter Tyson states, “many of the technologies you and I enjoy every day simply would not work without mathematics. “When you do a Google search, you’re relying on 19th-century algebra, on which the search engine’s algorithms are based. When you watch a movie, you may well be seeing mountains and other natural features that, while appearing as real as rock, arise entirely from mathematical models. When you play your iPod, you’re hearing a mathematical recreation of music that is stored digitally; your cell phone does the same in real time.

“When you listen to a mobile phone, you’re not actually hearing the voice of the person speaking,” Devlin told me. “You’re hearing a mathematical recreation of that voice. That voice is reduced to mathematics.””

Likewise, computers would not exist if abstract logic were not able to exert ‘top-down’ control on to material substrates.

As George Ellis states, “This abstract nature of software is realised in the concept of virtual machines, which occur at every level in the computer hierarchy except the bottom one [17]. But this tower of virtual machines causes physical effects in the real world,”

Besides technology proving the existence of immaterial mathematics and logic, advances in empirical science have now also proven that immaterial information is an independent entity that can exist independently apart from its physical representation on a material substrate.

The easiest way to prove that immaterial information is an independent entity that can exist apart from its physical representation on a material substrate is with quantum teleportation.

As the following experiments demonstrated, information can be instantly teleported between photons or atoms without the photons or atoms ever physically interacting.

As the following article states, “the photons aren’t disappearing from one place and appearing in another. Instead, it’s the information that’s being teleported through quantum entanglement.,,,”

And as the following article states. “scientists have successfully teleported information between two separate atoms in unconnected enclosures a meter apart,,, information,,, is transferred from one place to another, but without traveling through any physical medium.”

Moreover, advances in quantum information theory have now demonstrated that entropy is not a property of a system, but a property of an observer who describes a system.

And as the following 2017 article states: James Clerk Maxwell (said), “The idea of dissipation of energy depends on the extent of our knowledge.”,,,

quantum information theory,,, describes the spread of information through quantum systems.,,,

Fifteen years ago, “we thought of entropy as a property of a thermodynamic system,” he said. “Now in (quantum) information theory, we wouldn’t say entropy is a property of a system, but a property of an observer who describes a system.”,,,

Again to repeat that last sentence,“Now in (quantum) information theory, we wouldn’t say entropy is a property of a system, but a property of an observer who describes a system.”,,,

That statement about entropy being a property of an observer who describes the system, for anyone involved in the ID vs. Darwinism debate, ought to send chills down their scientific spine.

Supplemental notes:

Verse:

@Bornagain77 “When you listen to a mobile phone, you’re not actually hearing the voice of the person speaking,” Devlin told me. “You’re hearing a mathematical recreation of that voice. That voice is reduced to mathematics.””

Indeed, many of the technologies you and I enjoy every day simply would not work without mathematics. When you play your iPod, you’re hearing a mathematical recreation of music that is stored digitally; your cell phone does the same in real time.