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Fun from Facebook: Fake ID pages

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For months, some ID-friendly Facebookers have been trying to draw my attention to fake-ID Facebook pages. But Facebook is one of those systems I use without fully understanding it, so resisted getting involved.

Well, yesterday, I got clear enough information to have a look:

… you are still listed as a member on the fraudulent group. Could you please post a Warning message to that wall stating “Official Page here is a FAKE ID group run by an atheist with a FAKE account. Please do not support his fraud”.

Possibly, even a short write-up about the profile in this OP, as we have been trying to get this fraud shut down for a year?

Okay. So far as I can see, these are legitimate ID-oriented Facebook pages:

The Official ID Facebook Page (over 7000 members).

I don’t know what makes that page official. The ID community has no governing body. But it is probably representative of a large section of lay interest.

I also commend to your interest (775 members) Natural Genetic Engineering, which is named in honour of well-known molecular biologist and Darwin critic James Shapiro.

And Intelligent Design – Consistent with the program Discovery Institute (790 members) I don’t think the Discovery Institute sponsors the page; more likely, the members feel they are more in line with its goals.

Readers may wish to suggest other such pages; these are only the ones I have been asked or permitted to post links to, to spur discussions.

Okay, now about fake pages, here is one: It has 2780 members, and the artwork looks like it could be from an official page. Indeed, as the founder of the “official” ID page put it, “That’s the other thing is that since they stole our name, and copy our cover photos, it causes some members to do a double take not sure just exactly which board they’re on.”

When I posted links yesterday from Uncommon Descent to the Official ID Facebook Page, those links were appearing a sidebar at the fake page  (that, of course, may not continue hereafter). So it might at times look very much like the actual page.

It turned out I was even a member (no longer). How did that happen? I have been informed,

The purpose of his FAKE Behe and Meyer accounts is to collect creationist friends that he dumps into his fake group without permission (that’s how you ended up there) and the purpose of his FAKE group is to mock ID while booting everyone who defends ID, …

I have since left the group I never intentionally joined.

You wouldn’t even really notice what the page was unless you happened to read the intro copy written by Christopher Hartsil:

Irreducible complexity remains fallacious on a number of levels. Out of the gate it is a gap argument as not knowing how X developed is not evidence *for* anything. Secondly are the falsification criteria. They each are separate fallacies themselves.

So it obviously isn’t an ID page and one wonders how many of those some thousands of supposed members have any idea they have been enrolled.

There was a fake Mike Behe page quite recently, but it has been removed, I am told it will likely be replaced by another. Other ID theorists also have/have had/will have fake pages dedicated to detracting them as well. The Genesis Key was offered as another example, apparently from the same shop.

Some ID opponents defend the practice of fake pages. For example,

I would support ID if its claims were based on actual science. I am here because it is clearly not science, and I cannot allow ID to use MY cloak to fool its victims.

So instead of making clear that he does not support ID, he belongs to a fake ID page…

Two takehome points: People would not engage in these antics if they thought they could compete in an open forum.

Second, if they get a tighter hold on the whip hand, expect more than fake Facebook pages from them.

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Comments
Oh, did you just realize that you publicly admitted to all crimes against you for future reference and that you have no power here to censor and delete, Andrew Lowe? I did.Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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So how’s that finding a creationist page that doesn’t censor criticism coming?CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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Oops, no option of going back and deleting posts where you already admitted to everything you've been accused of. Screenshot moment.Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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So hows that "being exposed naked in front of more people than you ever met on facebook" going? It'll probably boost your FAKE group membership at least 50 people who you all have to censor and boot.Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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So how’s that finding a creationist page that doesn't censor criticism coming?CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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No further questions, Andrew Lowe. :)Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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So, let’s do a recap… The guy ADMITS to 50,000 readers that he is making FAKE Behe and Meyer accounts and ADMITS to being an atheist who starts fraudulent Christian groups and ADMITS to having a large amount of FAKE profiles already pre-made and ready to go and then claims: “He’s the victim”. Any questions?Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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GuyCaughtLyingAboutFraudSaysWhat?Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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So how's that finding a creationist page that doesn't censor criticism coming?CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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So, let's do a recap... The guy ADMITS to making FAKE Behe and Meyer accounts and ADMITS to being an atheist who starts fraudulent Christian groups and ADMITS to having a large amount of FAKE profiles already pre-made and ready to go and then claims: "He's the victim". Any questions?Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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You mean like how I demonstrated that you can't give one example of a creationist run facebook page that doesn't engage in censorship of criticism? I guess creationists are whining about my methods because they don't want any competition in dishonesty.CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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Are you too dumb to know that you've been exposed like a Nude model and fed to the fish? You look silly at this point and serve to show a wider reader base of 50,000 what you and your facebook agenda is all about. Thanks.Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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"That is the only thing I needed to know from you, to know that you are not behaving in the best interests of science" Knowing that ID isn't science serves science pretty wellCHartsil
November 30, 2014
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"His new group says: “Welcome to the Genesis Key" They also claimed in the original GK group to be interested in science. They were being dishonest about that. Why is it creationists only have a problem being lied to by skeptics? Especially when being lied to by other creationists (and being a creationist yourself) is what leads to such actions.CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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CHartsil:
ID isn’t a theory, it explains nothing.
Thank you CHartsil. That is the only thing I needed to know from you, to know that you are not behaving in the best interests of science. I'm best off to remain at UD.Gary S. Gaulin
November 30, 2014
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Why are you a consistent time wasting lying scumbag?Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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Christopher Hartsil said "No, I'm an atheist. This is an atheist run page as opposed to /IDOfficialpage due to censorship by creationists there." His new group says: "Welcome to the Genesis Key, a Christian apologetics website where you can find arguments defending the Christian faith against whatever Satan decides to throw our way. It's a great time to be a Christian. With the establishment of many academic fields, we have access to more evidence than ever before that the Bible is true. This website, and related content, was created with the intent to provide believers, both young and old, with this evidence, aswell as information on Christianity and on the different religions that plague our planet. Our goal is to strengthen the faith of Christians and bring many more people to saving faith in Jesus Christ. May God bless everyone who visits this site." https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheGenesisKey/?pnref=lhcPaleysghost
November 30, 2014
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So, no coherent explanation as to why you started a "Pro-Christian" group aimed at proving the Bible is true, huh? https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheGenesisKey/?pnref=lhcPaleysghost
November 30, 2014
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ID isn't a theory, it explains nothing.CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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CHartsil, you're still here! I only want your opinion of this Theory of Intelligent Design, not anything else: https://sites.google.com/site/theoryofid/home/TheoryOfIntelligentDesign.pdfGary S. Gaulin
November 30, 2014
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Gary, since they feel an obvious need to censor here feel free to join my group for debate. https://www.facebook.com/groups/IntelligentDesignOfficialPage/CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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Oh drats! Bad timing on my question. Not that I needed another debate.Gary S. Gaulin
November 30, 2014
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Gary, yes. ID is a wedge strategy to make creationism appear scientific. It's certainly not a theory as a theory is required to explain a natural phenomenon through testable mechanisms and be able to be used to produce falsifiable predictions. ID does no such thing.CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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Instead of continually bombarding me with accusations and questions I’ve already answered why not try to present a creationist run page or group that does not actively engage in censorship of criticism?CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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CHartsil. Is this "creationist?" http://theoryofid.blogspot.com/ Why or why not?Gary S. Gaulin
November 30, 2014
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CHartsil is no longer with us, under that name. He could always try starting a fake UD page if he likes. Don't know the legalities; could be issues.News
November 30, 2014
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The pile of lies is sky high, buddy and you can't delete and censor posts here like you do on your FAKE ID group: Why are you (yes, Andrew) the only member on a group you started that lies and says it supports Christianity? https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheGenesisKey/?pnref=lhcPaleysghost
November 30, 2014
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Instead of continually bombarding me with accusations and questions I've already answered why not try to present a creationist run page or group that does not actively engage in censorship of criticism? I'll go there and you can keep track of every single thing I post so there can be no mistaking it for 'trolling' as creationists like to use as rationale but only valid criticism.CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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Why are you lying? Why was your name "Ethan Metzger" 10 fake names ago, while "Christopher Hartsil" has been up a year without being flagged or shut down. Why are you (yes, Andrew) the only member on a group you started that lies and says it supports Christianity? https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheGenesisKey/?pnref=lhcPaleysghost
November 30, 2014
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"Why do you always have 20-30 premade accounts and pages ready to go out the shoot?" Censorship, as on here. If I had never been censored from a creationist page, I only ever would have needed one. "Why do you troll pretending to be an atheist and a creationist? Why do make fake Behe and Meyer profiles to collect friends that were added to your fake groups?" It's the only way to effectively expose some of these people to actual evidence. I admit it's not the most honest method but if they took issue with being lied to, they wouldn't be creationists to start with.CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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