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Hieroglyphs – the Linguistic Challenge to Darwinism

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What properties of the four forces of nature predict linguistic sequences? Or can an intelligent cause be inferred from the discovery and decryption of hieroglyphics?

That is the foundational challenge to Darwinism in explaining the discovery and deciphering of the Indus hieroglyphs.

                  J. M. Kenoyer / harappa.com
source J. M. Kenoyer / harappa.com
Markov analysis is being used to identify sequence patterns and uncover the language and meaning of the Indus hieroglyphs. See: Computers unlock more secrets of the mysterious Indus Valley script by Hannah Hickey, Univ. Washington

Four-thousand years ago, an urban civilization lived and traded on what is now the border between Pakistan and India. During the past century, thousands of artifacts bearing hieroglyphics left by this prehistoric people have been discovered. Today, a team of Indian and American researchers are using mathematics and computer science to try to piece together information about the still-unknown script.
The team led by a University of Washington researcher has used computers to extract patterns in ancient Indus symbols. The study, published this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, shows distinct patterns in the symbols’ placement in sequences and creates a statistical model for the unknown language.
“The statistical model provides insights into the underlying grammatical structure of the Indus script,” said lead author Rajesh Rao, a UW associate professor of computer science. “Such a model can be valuable for decipherment, because any meaning ascribed to a symbol must make sense in the context of other symbols that precede or follow it.”
. . .
The new study looks for mathematical patterns in the sequence of symbols. Calculations show that the order of symbols is meaningful; taking one symbol from a sequence found on an artifact and changing its position produces a new sequence that has a much lower probability of belonging to the hypothetical language. The authors said the presence of such distinct rules for sequencing symbols provides further support for the group’s previous findings, reported earlier this year in the journal Science, that the unknown script might represent a language.
“These results give us confidence that there is a clear underlying logic in Indus writing,” Vahia said.
Seals with sequences of Indus symbols have been found as far away as West Asia, in the region historically known as Mesopotamia and site of modern-day Iraq. The statistical results showed that the West-Asian sequences are ordered differently from sequences on artifacts found in the Indus valley. This supports earlier theories that the script may have been used by Indus traders in West Asia to represent different information compared to the Indus region. . . .
. . .”One of the main purposes of our paper is to introduce Markov models, and statistical models in general, as computational tools for investigating ancient scripts,” Adhikari said. . . For more information, contact Rao at rao@cs.washington.edu.(emphasis added)

See full news: Computers unlock more secrets of the mysterious Indus Valley script

Prof. Dr-Ing. Werner Gitt develops a hierarchy of information in his book: In the Beginning was Information ISBN: 3-89397-255-2

Gitt develops five levels of information:

# Fifth level Apobetics: Intended purpose & achieved result
# Fourth level Pragmatics: Expected and implemented actions
# Third level Semantics: Ideas communicated and understood
# Second level Syntax: Code employed and understood
# First level Statistics: Signal transmitted and received

Rao et al’s research is developing the first level Statistics and from that discovering the Syntax or code used and from that trying to understand the ideas being communicated.

What basis can Darwinism provide for ANY of Gitt’s five levels of information?
We have clear current and historic evidence of intelligent agents being the direct cause of encoded information (such as you are reading.) Thus, objectively, Intelligent Design provides a more satisfactory explanation for the existence of hieroglyphs – as well as for the computers and software tools used to analyze them.

Comments
Hello Mr. Nakashima, or should I say konichiwa? :-) Thanks for asking. That’s one of the first things that occurred to me as a potential objection. There are other instances of this in the animal world such as army ants (and other ants and other bugs, whatever) communicating with chemicals and whales and dolphins communicating with whistles and clicks. (And human beings sometimes communicate in sign language that involves no words. I know this because somebody gave me a symbolic gesture the other day on the freeway and there was no mistaking the message!) But think about it. There is a language involved in all of these instances. Let's take the bee “dance” as an example. The bees make certain “steps” in certain combinations that communicate “the pollen is over here.” In order for that to happen, the symbols, or steps, in this case, are arranged in certain ways (according to some set of rules) that means “go 400 meters south by southeast” or “go 600 meters due west” or whatever (or get the hell out of my lane). The point being that in order for communication, the transmission of information, to take place, a language is required and LIFE IS REQUIRED. And since all languages require symbols (written, verbal, chemical, physical, digital, whatever) and rules (how the symbols are arranged into vocabulary and into meaningful communication by grammar and syntax) then symbols and rules MUST BE explained. But they CANNOT BE explained by physics. Information is immaterial. It’s encoded in physical substrate BUT it’s independent of that substrate. The meaning isn’t in the physics or chemistry of the ink on the page or the smoke signals in the sky. Physics is about the material and physical world and would have nothing to say about symbols, the representation of one thing for another, or rules, how the symbols were arranged. This is the key point that MUST BE driven home. If all I have to explain things is physics then I can never, EVER explain information. And when you have Dawkins, Crick, Yockey, hell, all of them, talking about life and information and DNA then they are finished. It's over. They say only physics has causal and explanatory power but we have seen that it is conceptually impossible for physics to explain symbols and rules, therefore it cannot eplain language, therefore it cannot explain information, therefore it cannot explain life. Game over. I have tried to attack this issue at the most fundamental level. I’ve been through the chance can do this and chance can’t do that arguments but they all miss the crucial point. There is no life apart from information, and there is no information apart from language, and there is no language apart from symbols and rules. And the ONLY thing that can explain symbols and rules is a mind. Or, originally, a Mind. Physics is not up to the task because physics is about the physical world, not the immaterial world of information. Materialism, naturalism, physicalism, whatever you want to call it, is intellectually bankrupt from the beginning. It doesn’t get the first things (what exists) right so as a result it gets everything else wrong when it comes to life. This applies to morality, epistemology, everything. It truly is a mystery to me why the ID crowd hasn’t slaughtered them on this point. I can’t believe that we are still even having this conversation, to tell you the truth. It’s not that evolution by “natural selection” isn’t true, it’s not even possible for it to be true. Only a mind can account for information. I’ll be speaking about this in Houston in a couple of weeks. Preaching to the choir, so to speak, but I welcome opposing points of view. It gives me a great foil for presenting the truth.tgpeeler
August 5, 2009
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Upright BiPed, "Research has told us that the sequencing of nucleotides have no physical properties that cause them to exist in the functional state under which we find them. It has also told us that it is fundamentally impossible for the mechanism of chance to have coordinated the disparate physical objects within the cell which those nucleotides control. Finally, it has also shown that neither chance nor physical law can organize the symbol system in which those nucleotides encode their information, or the process by which it is decoded." So where, if anywhere, has this data proven useful? Is it, for instance, being used to help understand or cure genetic diseases, cancer or AIDS? Or perhaps it will help in the fight against illegal immigration and terrorism? "None of that research was particularly labeled “ID Research”. You’ll have to decide for yourself whether or not that matters – just as you’ll have to decide for yourself whether not it matters what chance and physical necessity cannot do." Why was it not labeled “ID Research”? Was it perhaps not done by ID scientists? I guess it wouldn't really matter either way, just as long as ID theory can further our knowledge of biological life?MeganC
August 5, 2009
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Mr Tgpeeler, How do you deal with bee dancing in your system?Nakashima
August 5, 2009
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Megan, Research has told us that the sequencing of nucleotides have no physical properties that cause them to exist in the functional state under which we find them. It has also told us that it is fundamentally impossible for the mechanism of chance to have coordinated the disparate physical objects within the cell which those nucleotides control. Finally, it has also shown that neither chance nor physical law can organize the symbol system in which those nucleotides encode their information, or the process by which it is decoded. None of that research was particularly labeled “ID Research”. You’ll have to decide for yourself whether or not that matters – just as you’ll have to decide for yourself whether not it matters what chance and physical necessity cannot do.Upright BiPed
August 5, 2009
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Has ID theory managed to tell us anything useful about biological life using the methods described in the article? Anything we didn't know before?MeganC
August 5, 2009
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#15 -BVZ I would be happy to do this. I have been making this argument for some time and I'm delighted that someone with the academic credentials to get this idea into the public discourse has done so. I posted a more detailed response to the subject of your question at https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/quote-of-the-day-4/comment-page-2/#comment-316367 on the 4th of May. For here, I will summarize. It seems to me that a good explanation should, among other things, explain what needs to be explained. In the case of "life," what needs to be explained is information, not physical structures. In other words, in order to explain the house we must refer to the architectural plans. In order to explain living organisms we must refer to the genetic language and the biological information in the genomes. "Natural selection" of course, does nothing of the kind but I will save that for later. If you are a materialist (or a physicalist or a "naturalist," and I hope that you are not) then ALL you have to explain anything and everything is the laws of physics. Any self-respecting proponent of the "isms" that deny that there is anything beyond nature, beyond the material, beyond the physical, have eliminated Mind/mind as an ultimate explanation for anything. Given that, we quickly see the following chain of reasoning. *Information must be explained to explain life. *Language must be explained to explain information. *Symbols and rules must be explained to explain language. *Physics has NOTHING TO SAY about why particular arrangements of symbols mean something as opposed to something else or why then mean anything at all. *THEREFORE, it is impossible to explain information within a materialist ontology. IMPOSSIBLE. So symbols and rules are what must be explained. But physics has nothing to say about symbols, the representation of one thing for another, or rules, why a particular arrangement symbols "CAT" means a certain kind of mammal and "ACT" means to do something, something done, or a segment of a play, depending on context. Physics also has nothing to say about why "TAC" also means Tyrosine, to get to the heart of the matter. I could go on and on. The proponents of Darwinism, neo-Darwinism, the modern synthesis, evo-devo, whatever you want to call the latest incarnation of intellectual garbage that is being peddled to the public, are intellectually dishonest. They avail themselves of the explanatory resources of Mind/mind yet deny the existence of Mind/mind. It's astonishing to me that the ID community hasn't already destroyed these pretenders. Information always reduces to mind, not to physics. Case closed. This is not difficult. It couldn't be more simple. The entire "intellectual" enterprise of naturalism, materialism, physicalism, is devoid of truth. They cannot explain anything that matters to human beings. Well, they can explain why electrons do what they do, or at least predict that they will do what they do and that makes my TV work so they can explain at least one thing that matters. :-) But about purpose, morality, reason, information, and consciousness, to name a few, these "isms" have NOTHING to say.tgpeeler
August 5, 2009
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Nakashima-san: I have to be heading out right away, but5 could not resistt his one:
At best we can draw so sort of regression line and project backwards along it, which is always dangerous.
Think about what that says for the grand apparatus of neo-Darwinian macro-evolution, which is exactly that sort of grand extrapolation beyond the observable. On particular points: 1 --> As you now note, I did not first use the term, it is actually the law of Pasteur and Virchow (those C19 fundy dummies . . . not). Even in the thread, someone else cited it. 2 --> the law is obviously limited, as cell based life cannot be eternal, given what else we credibly know about our universe. 3 --> While we may not infer that today's atmosphere was always there, we must reason in ways that are consistent with today's atmosphere being as it is, which constrains our reasoning sharply. 4 --> Also, in the context of prelife chemistry, the proportion of Oxygen becomes a two sided sword: significant presence, no Miller-Urey type phenomena, no "soup." Too little, UV smashes the organic chemicals, no soup again, and the overlap range is also prohibitive. [Notice how we are inferring from observed present chemistry and actinic radiation and its sources in the sun's physics . . . ] 5 --> getting back to the issue of inference to intelligence. We see that the sort of explanatory filter approach is in use in the case of the apparent Indus Valley script. 6 --> So, if such FSCI on many grounds is inferred as intelligently sourced, why then is the code based algorithmic functionality of the cell not reasonably hypothesised -- bias set to one side -- as an intelligent artifact? [Esp given the linked von Neuman cluster to get to self-replication, and the search resource exhaustion that the associated configuration spaces soon impose on the scope of the cosmos as a whole as observed.] GEM of TKIkairosfocus
August 5, 2009
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KF-san, I am sure we are in violent agreement about the general principles, only the details of their application are a little slippery. The general statement that life comes from life was not yours, originally, and I don't hold you to defend it. If we observe today rock formations that required a different chemistry in the oceans or atmosphere than we have today, we can't use today's atmosphere as the basis for an argument. Similarly, if we put prebiotic materials in an environment containing sophisticated cells, and the cells consumed them as food, then we have learned we can't argue from cells backwards, either. At best we can draw so sort of regression line and project backwards along it, which is always dangerous.Nakashima
August 5, 2009
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Nakashima-san: [NB: We must not let this thread simply slide away form its focus] The issue is not a generic statement that uses one word to substitute for another uninformatively; but the question of the information and its storage and processing system. As for "backward" arguemts that move from the present to the past, why, we can only observe IN the present, so if we are to do origins science on the roots of that present we will have to argue from the preset to the past. And, there is a little principle of extension of scientific reasoning that infers that the world as a whole tends to work in more or less similar patterns, so we provisionally generalise on observations that support inferences to currently best and reasonably reliable explanations. I think Peirce spoke of it as the three step logic of science or something like that: abduction, deduction, induction. Wiki: ___________ Borrowing a brace of concepts from Aristotle, Peirce examined three basic modes of reasoning that play roles in inquiry, processes currently known as abductive, deductive, and inductive inference. Peirce also called abduction "retroduction" and, earliest of all, "hypothesis". He characterized it as guessing and as inference to the best explanation. Peirce sometimes expounded the modes of inference by transformations of the classical Barbara (AAA) syllogism, for example in "Deduction, Induction, and Hypothesis" (1878, see CP 2:623). He does this by rearranging the rule (which serves as deduction's major premiss), the case (deduction's minor premiss), and the result (deduction's conclusion): Deduction. Rule: All the beans from this bag are white. Case: These beans are from this bag. \therefore Result: These beans are white. Induction. Case: These beans are [randomly selected] from this bag. Result: These beans are white. \therefore Rule: All the beans from this bag are white. Hypothesis (Abduction). Rule: All the beans from this bag are white. Result: These beans are white. \therefore Case: These beans are from this bag. Peirce went on in 1883 in "A Theory of Probable Inference" (Studies in Logic) to equate hypothetical inference with the induction of characters of objects. Eventually dissatisfied, by 1900 he was distinguishing them again and taking the syllogistic forms as not quite basic. In 1903 he presented the following logical form for abductive inference[58]: The surprising fact, C, is observed; But if A were true, C would be a matter of course, Hence, there is reason to suspect that A is true. Note that the logical form does not also cover induction, since induction does not depend on surprise and does not introduce a new idea in its conclusion. Abduction seeks a hypothesis to account for facts; induction seeks facts to test a hypothesis. Peirce now regarded abduction as plainly preparatory to further study and inference. In his methodeutic or theory of inquiry (see below), Peirce regards the three modes as clarified by their coordination in essential roles in inquiry and science, with abduction generating a possible hypothesis to account for a surprising phenomenon, deduction clarifying the relevant necessary predictive consequences of the hypothesis, and induction testing the sum of the predictions against the sum of the data to show something actually in operation.[59] _____________ And of course the scientific investigation strategy being used to tackle apparent Indus Valley script is based on precisely this approach, accepting that intelligent action is an empirically detectable fact. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
August 5, 2009
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KF-san, Once you restrict your observation to cell based life, then the answer to the question becomes easier, "from non cell based life". This shows the failure of the "in our observation" intuition/inference/analogy/warrant/habit. We know conditions 3-4 billion years ago were quite different, why persist in using a logical argument that moves backwards from the present?Nakashima
August 5, 2009
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Nakshima-san: Of course cell-based life [notice my specificity . .. as a Christian I am very open to the possibility of non cell based life! SP---- . . . ] is known to work in a way that is based on DNA, ribosomes, enzymes, proteins etc. thus, it is functionally specific and complex. In turn, that life uses symbolic patterns, codes, algorithms and processors thereof. That is the class of function is very familiar form information science. In our observation, such cell based life comes from previous cell based life, using special structures and algorithms for replication; and often special cells for sexual reproduction. Life from life in short, raising the issue where did the original life come from, given what we know about he observed cause of such information-functional, algorithmic, code based complex entities. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
August 5, 2009
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PS: BV, now that I am slightly more awake, I should add something. The first issue is if there is a something there to see. And statistical pattern analysis is being used to see that here is an apparently linguistic [one presumes alphabetical, cf. how Q is usually followed by U in English etc] function, so that sequences seem to come in meaningful patterns. So much so that moving one glyph out of the observed placing sufficiently changes pattern to make a clearly discernible difference. So, statistics are spotlighting functionality, and then on the patterns detected and one guesses correlations to the known patterns of Sanskrit or maybe just broad Indo-European (PC for "Aryan" . . . I suppose) linguistic patterns, they are going for a crack without benefit of a Rosetta Stone with parallel columns of text. Cf Wiki on Linear B to see how they cracked it using similar techniques. [It even has its own unicode symbol set now! See also images here. Cf book discussion of decipherment here, esp ch 6, noting of course how the year 1953 turns up.]kairosfocus
August 5, 2009
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Mr Joseph, But anyway life begets life- what does that tell you? That 'life' is no longer the definite, binary category people once thought it was.Nakashima
August 5, 2009
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BVZ: Look at he just above, on what is going on in the case: routine application of the explanatory filter in a scientific context, prior to being able to work out the meaning of the text. the statistics part is being used to try to get enough "cipher text" to apply modern code cracking techniques to solve the language-writing system. (Presumably, the symbols relate to ancient Indus Valley speech, which would be somewhat related to Sanskrit etc.) GEM of TKIkairosfocus
August 5, 2009
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I am having a difficult time following the argument in the OP. Basically, it is possible to perform statistical analysis on a language. I don't see how this is a problem for evolution. Could someone walk me through the logic here?BVZ
August 5, 2009
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PPPS: Re L's: That the first cause of all things must have been an organism? Further observe how the chain of inference world: we observe that causes tend to come in three forms: chance and/or necessity and/or intelligence. We seek characteristic sings of each ans assign such to diverse facets of observed phenomena, routinely using inference to best explanation not demanding absolute logical proof. In that context, we identify signs of intelligence. So, we are able to infer to intelligent cause provisionally but with high enough confidence to put the weight of serious decisions on it [e.g in a courtroom using circumstantial evidence: was it accident, suicide or murder . . . ]. And, once we have intelligent cause as reasonable on best explanation of currently observed empirical evidence, we may then look for suspects or candidates; e.g. based on other circumstantial constraints. In the case of the origin of Terran, cell-based life, such intelligences may or may not have been beyond the cosmos, but were definitely not human. As we look at the life-friendly, fine-tuned cosmos we inhabit, the class of candidates looks like it would require great power and intelligence intent on creating a context for onward origin and [guided] development of life. that such sounds rather like the sort of God theists often discuss, is interesting but not a matter of circularity in reasoning. in short, that is not a matter of a question-begging, "MUST HAVE BEEN . . . " assumption. but instead it is inference to best explanation in a context open to alternatives. If you would dismiss the above, then kindly propose and warrant a better explanation on empirical evidence.kairosfocus
August 4, 2009
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Lenoxus: First, a footnote . . . Re: The ribosome is intelligent? 1 --> First, look at its function in the cell as typified in the diagrams here and here. Also examine the survey description here. 2 --> Then, ask yourself, is the central processing unit of a computer [which interprets and executes digital instructions in a read off sequence] INTELLIGENT? 3 --> or is its organised mechanical functionality in executing algorithms instead a SIGN of intelligence? [Cf the diagram and discussion of the design theory explanatory filter here.] 4 --> this brings us back to the original focus of this thread, the as yet un-cracked Indus valley hieroglyphs. 5 --> Examine the pictures above: is it logically possible that such could have been formed by accidental processes of weathering etc? [Ans, as a strict possibility, yes.] 6 --> Why then -- given that we do not have any ability to read any alleged message incorporated in them -- is there inference that they are designed by intelligent argents rather than forces of chance and mechanical necessity acting on whatever initial conditions happened to prevail where we found the items? [Ans: by inferring that intelligence is the best explanation for the apparently functional organisation of the apparent glyphs, especially as their production seems to have been somewhat of a routine matter, and is closely associated with other complex functional features -- bas reliefs of bulls, gods/men etc.. That is, in a scientific context, we have inferred to intelligence as the best explanation on empirical evidence.] 7 --> In short, the [often, implicit] application of the ID explanatory filter -- apart form cases where it is inconvenient to the evolutionary materialist school of thought -- is a routine scientific exercise. 8 --> Observe further the onward, equally scientific project: reverse engineering the apparent functional features, to detect a suspected code. 9 --> That is, we see how codes are routinely associated with the action of intelligences as a sign of intelligence and as an indicator of their purposeful action. 10 --> So, since a digital code has been known to be associated with the DNA/RNA messaging system in the cell ever since 1953 on, why -- apart form worldview level question-begging -- is it not generally accepted that such a functional code (as well as its interpreting and executing machinery) is best explained by an intelligent coder? GEM of TKI PS: A couple of days back, I had occasion to use utility software to peek into the structure of an e-SWORD bbl file. As I looked on the ASCII character string onscreen, I was impressed to see how the majority of the file [especially the header!] seemed to be a rather long string of repetitive, seemingly meaningless characters. It brought to mind the way that much of DNA has a similar structure; which led in now rapidly fading -- but rather more recent than many would admit -- former days, to the inference that most of the DNA is "junk." [BTW, I gather the ENCODE project is finding macro-structures in DNA.] PPS: Sparc, since you seem to be now reduced to such rhetorical sniping, I am a very different individual from BA 77, Jerry and others. That I am commenting from Montserrat [which may appear to the system as Antigua] should be proof enough.kairosfocus
August 4, 2009
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Joseph:
Yes, it is called a ribosome- a genetic compiler.
The ribosome is intelligent?
As for the “scribe of the gaps”- as far as you know humans picked it up from what nature,operating freely gave them.
I'm not sure I grasp the distinction here, or see how it's relevant to the question of archaeology and whether proposing human creators is a "god of the gaps". Obviously, humans are intelligent, even if they learn how to do some or all things from nature. Is someone a singer if a god teaches him to sing, but not if a bird does?
But anyway life begets life- what does that tell you?
That the first cause of all things must have been an organism?Lenoxus
August 4, 2009
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This thread is cracking me up. Comments 2, 7 and 8 are deserving of special note. We should have a sarcasm contest. Winner gets an ancient arrowhead gauranteed to have been formed without intelligence! (While supplies last. Arrowhead is not guaranteed to work and should not be used indoors or with anything resembling a bent shaft and string.)tragic mishap
August 4, 2009
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Lenoxus:
Does DNA have an intelligent decoder to translate its instructions?
Yes, it is called a ribosome- a genetic compiler.
And in what sense does the process require intelligence, if not to encode or decode the information?
The same sense that a computer requires intelligence. As for the "scribe of the gaps"- as far as you know humans picked it up from what nature,operating freely gave them. But anyway life begets life- what does that tell you?Joseph
August 4, 2009
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On top of everything else, these hieroglyphs clearly cannot be accounted for by material causes. Take that, naturalists! DLH:
We have clear current and historic evidence of intelligent agents being the direct cause of encoded information (such as you are reading.)
Does DNA have an intelligent decoder to translate its instructions? If not, why not? And in what sense does the process require intelligence, if not to encode or decode the information? Just the original cell?
… there is yet no basis for showing how stochastic processes by the four forces of nature come up with even the first self replicating cell.
So, how about that fifth force of Intelligence? How do we know it was up to the task? If it was… are there any tasks it's not up to? Just curious… Joseph:
Archaeology is nothing more than the “scribe of the gaps” and archaeologists are failed geologists- that is geologists who have given up. (sarcasm)
Yeah — since when was there any physical evidence that people have lived anywhere or physically created things such as written words? So far, "humans" are just a hypothetical phenomenon which leave no evidence for their existence. Total gap-filling.Lenoxus
August 4, 2009
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The Darwinian hypothesis does not apply to hieroglyphs. They are far too simple to have natural causes. First they must climb down off the wall, build a civilization, and draw their own hieroglyphs. Only then does accidental organization become the best and only explanation.ScottAndrews
August 4, 2009
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Archaeology is nothing more than the "scribe of the gaps" and archaeologists are failed geologists- that is geologists who have given up. (sarcasm)Joseph
August 4, 2009
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Broadly "Darwinism" has numerous challenges: First is the obvious Origin of Life (OOL) for which Darwin
. . .conceive in some warm little pond, with all sorts of ammonia and phosphoric salts, light, heat, electricity, etc., present, that a protein compound was chemically formed ready to undergo still more complex changes . . .
More recent the challenge is how to conceive of OOL in a frozen snowball earth covered by one 1 km thick ice. Origin and Evolution of Life on a Frozen Earth Scientists debate whether life’s start was hot or cold Regardless the temperature, there is yet no basis for showing how stochastic processes by the four forces of nature come up with even the first self replicating cell. The second major challenge is microevolution of cells developing complex biochemical systems. A third challenge is macroevolution of complex body parts. Language presents at least a fourth.DLH
August 4, 2009
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The funny thing is that even when not considering the origin of these hieroglyphs- simply adding wind, erosion, raw energy, or any other number of random natural processes would do nothing to make them any more complex or meaningful after the fact. In fact it would effectively diminish such highly specified complexity into rubbish over any given amount of time.PaulN
August 4, 2009
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DLH:
Thus, objectively, Intelligent Design provides a more satisfactory explanation for the existence of hieroglyphs – as well as for the computers and software tools used to analyze them.
Indeed, the hypothesis that hieroglyphs, computers, and software are designed by humans is a far more satisfactory explanation than the Darwinian hypothesis. Er... what's the Darwinian hypothesis again?R0b
August 4, 2009
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What basis can Darwinism provide for ANY of Gitt’s five levels of information?
Easy dude, infinite multi-verses. Ever heard of them? That and super duper long deep time. Combine those two things and the impossible becomes inevitable. It is called science dude. /sarcasm.Jehu
August 4, 2009
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But of course if there were some political motive for denying that there ever was such a thing as an Indus Valley civilization, then we'd have no problem whatsoever ridiculing Rao. The question would be raised, "But is it science?" and the courts would have to get involved.Rude
August 4, 2009
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Wow, this is pretty devastating evidence against Darwinism. But then again, there's scads of that around these days. Most important IMHO is that this is yet another pro-ID paper in the peer-reviewed literature.herb
August 4, 2009
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