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Hitler as a Darwinist?: Prof accused of academic dishonesty

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Recently, several people have generously devoted considerable time to padding the comments section of the Post-Darwinist on the question of whether Hitler was a creationist or a Darwinist. Now, one recent commenter, Mitchell Coffey, went over the top, accusing Cal State prof Richard Weikart, author of From Darwin to Hitler, of being dishonest.

Critiquing my position, he scolds, in part:

This is to be expected if you rely on the immorality of dishonest academics like Richard Weikart. Most of his assertions about Darwin’s beliefs are contradicted by the historical sources — often by the historical sources he himself cites for support! In one case, he out-and-out lies about what he calls Darwin’s “system.”

But if you want to see a straight-out lie by Prof. Weikart, locate his one quote from H.G. Wells. Weikart makes extravagant claims about the significance of the quote, which Weikart wants you to believe meant that Wells believed in killing off “inferior” races.

Weikart, who is fluent in German, replies,

Mitchell Coffey’s claim that I engaged in academic dishonesty is patently ridiculous.

I should note that my overall argument in no way depends on the Wells’ quotation, since the vast majority of my book is about German thinkers, and most of my quotations are from primary sources, unlike the Wells quote, which I provided to show that Germans weren’t the only ones advocating racial extermination. If anyone can show that my primary source quotations are wrenched out of context, this would be troubling indeed. To date, no one has raised such a criticism, despite many reviews by historians in historical journals.

(The question hinged on how to interpret another scholar’sview of Wells.)

To me, the really interesting aspect of this whole exchange is why it should matter so much to some people whether Hitler was a Darwinist, a creationist, or something else. After all, what if Pol Pot was a Darwinist and Idi Amin a creationist? Do we think the better or the worse of mass murderers on such an account? So I asked Weikart for some thoughts, as he deals frequently with such attacks.

His reply was interesting:

The reason why people care about Hitler being a Darwinist was because his version of Darwinism influenced his murderous ideology. It wasn’t incidental to his mass murder, as it might be in the other cases you mentioned. Darwinists have to distance themselves from his social Darwinist views, so they campaign against it as against heresy. Also, it’s remarkable how many websites run by atheists and anti-religious people prominently feature articles about Hitler being a Christian, and they blame Christianity for Hitler and the Holocaust.

It’s also remarkable that many Darwinists idolize Darwin so much that they cannot come to admit that he was a social Darwinist (though many scholars, to their credit, have conceded this).

Hmmm. I have often suggested that Darwinism would repay study by social scientists. It does come with a worldview, including a number of positions on hotly contested but apparently unrelated topics. For example, I would like to hear from a single serious Darwinist who disapproves of stem cell research on discarded human embryos on ethical grounds. It is easy to find non-Darwinists who disapprove such things.

Comments
Carlos in 25: So you think Richard Weikart is all wet? That the racism and eugenics of the thirties owed nothing to Darwin? I often wonder why it is important that Hitler was so completely original and that all alone without any latent influences in the culture he was able to do what he did such that he alone stands guilty.Rude
September 15, 2006
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How on earth did we get into a wrangle about the Bible or what sound to me like apocryphal texts? Or capitalism? Does anyone want to comment on why people think that Hitler being a Darwinist is or isn’t important? - cheers, Denyse This is how: Given that 1) Darwinism equates people to animals 2) Certain instantiations of Christianity treat animals as having no rights 3) Eugenics are based on principles of animal husbandry Nazi eugenics therefore is a combination of convincing science (1 and 3) that people are animals combined with religious teachings that animals have no rights. Compassion goes out the door and in the door comes the idea that the human race can be improved by selective breeding and that such a thing is a good thing - the ends justifying the means. My further quotations of "apocryphal" scripture are in support of the thesis that animals being creations of God to be used for our convenience is a man-made corruption of Christ's teachings. If anyone prefers to think that Christ somehow condoned the destruction or killing of any of God's creation that's certainly their right but it makes neither logical nor heartfelt sense to me and I reject it thoroughly. Furthermor, to bring it back around to Hitler, I think if the Christian church had remained faithful to Christ's teachings it render moot the scientific conclusions that people are animals. If animals were accorded the treatment that I believe Christ *actually* espoused it wouldn't matter a bit whether we considered ourselves animals or not as we'd still be obliged to treat each other lovingly.DaveScot
September 15, 2006
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Ekstasis The dominance of Europe in the world and fervent nationalism couldn't have provided a basis for seeing Germans as the supreme race? Why should people need rational reasons for irrational beliefs? How on Earth would they determine that they were more evolved than a Briton? I just do not see how a case can be made that Darwin had to come along before there could be the idea of a master race. How on Earth did people ever justify slavery before Darwin came along?jmcd
September 15, 2006
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Carlos in 9: “But there are interesting parallels between a Smithian account of markets and a Darwinian account of nature.” There may be. But then why cite this egregiously silly article? There is no irony in the fact that the Marxists (and Stalin himself) were staunch Darwinists and that the Soviet Union and statists everywhere wish to instantiate Darwin by state power and yet freedom loving ordinary folk have always found Darwin rather stupid. The author commits what Phil Johnson called “Berra’s blunder”—technology and here the free market are the product of blind forces and not of Intelligent Design. Oh? The design is of course too complex for some central committee of idiot commissars—the decisions must be made at the grass roots where a system of liberty lets the Intelligent be responsible for the Design. John Allen Paulos wrongly thinks that “the argument from design . . . dates from the 18th century” and that it “has been decisively refuted”—but he doesn’t bother telling us how because “Those who reject evolution are usually immune to such arguments.”Rude
September 15, 2006
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21. Well, we could go back to my 4 . . . Does anyone want to comment on why people think that Hitler being a Darwinist is or isn’t important? Firstly, I think the evidence for "Hitler is a Darwinist" still seems pretty weak. He was neither a Darwinist, nor a Christian. He was a variety of Gnostic (by way of Theosophy) with strong pagan elements drawn from Teutonic mythology (thanks, Wagner!) and from the self-mythologization of the Roman Empire. He may have drawn on Darwinian lines of thought here and there, but -- let's be honest -- Hitler was not the sort of person interested in ideas. He was interested in provoking emotional responses. If people believed in Darwin, he would use Darwinian imagery to provoke a response. If they believed in Christ, he would use a Christian imagery to provoke a response. He wasn't working at the level of beliefs and implications -- that wasn't his bag. He was working at the level of directly programming the limbic system, by means of whatever cortical pathways available to him. Secondly, the "Darwinian" influence on Hitler -- bearing in mind, of course, that we're talking about Haeckel's influence on Hitler -- shows the same thing that's shown by Aquinas' influence on Torquemada, or the Koran's influence on the Taliban -- that is, nothing of substance.Carlos
September 15, 2006
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Just passing through, offering no off-topic comment, just a quick link on the roots and rise of capitalism. http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=stark+rise+of+capitalism+christianity&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8Charlie
September 15, 2006
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Denyse, Just for the heck of it, why not say something on topic occasionally? Maybe it is not so much whether Hitler was or was not a Darwinist, but rather the conditions that were necessary for large numbers of people to follow him. Certainly we must admit that there was a huge streak of racism in Europe, and America for that matter, going on at the time. The whole "master race" certainly did catch on with the German people. And "race" was not just construed as skin color. No, much more. Aryan really meant something to these people. So, one must stop and ask why. Darwinist thinking that one race was more "evolved" than another certainly must have been a primary cause. Oh, sure, the feeling that one's tribe is better than another pre-dates Darwin. But, how does one justify it and make it such an overriding factor unless one truly believes that one's tribe is superior in some real way? And how is this the case without the whole evolution thing serving as a foundation? Certainly not from Christianity, where "there is neither Jew nor Greek"? Now of course there were other factors contributing to Hitler's popularity, e.g., how Germany was treated after WWI. Still, it is hard to conceive that the "superior race" thing was not central, and that this did not flow from the philisophers that in turn based their thinking on Darwinism.Ekstasis
September 15, 2006
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Denyse, Sorry for getting off-topic, I felt called on to defend the honor of my favorite saint. Hitler is our only culturally available icon of evil. Everyone else is in dispute. No one cares whether Stalin was a Darwinist, for example, even though Stalin killed more people than Hitler. So if you want to make a culturally significant statement that something is evil, you've got to somehow associate it with Nazis. That's why atheists try to make Hitler a devout Christian, and creationists Hitler a Darwin disciple. Cheers, Dave T.taciturnus
September 15, 2006
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From moderator Denyse: How on earth did we get into a wrangle about the Bible or what sound to me like apocryphal texts? Or capitalism? Does anyone want to comment on why people think that Hitler being a Darwinist is or isn't important? - cheers, DenyseO'Leary
September 15, 2006
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Dave, My initial objection was that attributing the notion of "machine" to Aquinas (or any other medieval philosopher) is anachronistic since "machine" is a modern notion that came about around the time of Descartes. A machine has no more moral value than any other non-living thing. Aquinas recognized a hierarchy of being, starting at the bottom with inanimate matter and ending at the top with God. Man and animals are somewhere in the middle with, yes, man higher than animals, but animals certainly more "noble" than brute matter or, I am sure, a machine.taciturnus
September 15, 2006
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Adam Smith developed the theory of Capitalism in his 1776 book “The Wealth of Nations” long before Darwin. Darwinism is more likely based on Capitalism than the other way around. Darwin’s thinking was colored by the British obsession that flowed from Capitalism at the time — one person or group out-competing others, plus the imperialism involving one group dominating another. Ah, yes, Darwin was a man of his time. And those times, they are a changing! Apparently Darwinism came about naturally enough:
A natural setting. If Darwin’s metaphor was a reflection of late-nine teenth-century capitalism as Marx suggested, I want now to highlight the other side of the coin: that same capitalism recognized itself in Darwin’s metaphor. Darwinian evolution was useful to certain social groups in their struggle for existence—useful in very concrete, practical ways. First, it promised a sure foundation for ideas of progress. As Spencer had foreseen, it was because of evolution that “progress is not an accident, but a necessity civilisation. . . is part of nature.” But the ideology of Darwinism could also be used to justify dangerous work, low wages and the exploitation of other countries. It provided an argument against reformers, many of them Christians, who wanted a framework of law to protect weaker members of society such as children and the poor. It was all of this, and yet it could also claim the status of a science. The language of Darwinism found its natural application in legitimating unrestrained capitalism and colonialism, because its language was drawn from capitalist competition and the social survial of the fittest. Social Dar winism, by reflecting back to society the very same ideology that the theory of evolution had drawn upon in the first place, justified that society. Darwin’s language and that of capitalism were the same. So Darwin’s metaphor was well adapted to the aggressive capitalist environment of the late nineteenth century, and the theory of natural selec tion was naturally selected by businessmen, colonialists and generals. The “meme” of Darwinism replicated in the lay population, where it found its natural environment. Evolution evolved. In recent decades, evolution has faced a change in the social conditions that bred it Unregulated competition no longer seems so desirable as it once did, and the contemporary economy is more mixed and varied. The everyday competitive language of Victorian capitalism that favored the rep lication of the Darwinian meme has been replaced by images of symbiosis, cooperation and coevolution. The single metaphor of the “survival of the fittest” finds itself in a different, less supportive social environment...
(Six Modern Myths About Christianity & Western Civilization by Philip J. Sampson :64-65) Noting in passing here:
Huxley naturally realized that, as examples of Darwinian competition for life among humans, hypothetical ancient fights between Hobbesian bachelors were not nearly good enough. What was desperately needed were some real examples, drawn from contemporary or at least recent history. Nothing less would be sufficient to reconcile Darwinism with the obvious facts of human life [evidence of cooperation]. Accordingly, Huxley made several attempts to supply such an example. But the result in every case was merely embarrassing. One attempt was as follows. Huxley draws attention to the fierce competition for colonies and markets which was going on, at the time he wrote, among the major Western nations. He says, in effect, “There! That’s pretty Darwinian, you must admit.” The reader, for his part, scarcely knows where to look, and wonders, very excusably, what species of organism it can possibly be, of which Britain, France, and Germany are members.
(Darwinian Fairytales: Selfish Genes, Errors of Heredity, and Other Fables of Evolution by David Stove :7-9)mynym
September 15, 2006
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Dave, Your bluntness is something I've always appreciated about you. I was just wondering if you thought your views could be reconciled with the NT, or if your take on Jesus was idiosyncratic. Cheers, Dave T.taciturnus
September 15, 2006
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Any scripture that appears to accomodate killing I believe is human authors at work mading edits for expediency. The first mention of vegetarianism and so on is here: "Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. ...you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal.* And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man." *That undermines the notion that animals exist as a little more than just means to our own ends. Darwin often commented on the injustice of it all and noted that therefore the God of the Bible must not exist. So it is ironic that the God of the Bible may not think it just that a parasitic wasp eats the brains of a spider and so on either. On the other hand, Jesus later uses entire categories of animals as metaphors for evil anyway. Note that animals certainly are treated as means to our ends at times in scriptures, just or no. In general there is the whole notion of animal sacrifice found in scriptures and then ultimately there is the Lamb of God and so. Note that the views typical to anti-Christians on "animal rights" and man's relationship to animals are not historically accurate:
...characteristic of Puritan sentiment is [a] sixteenth-century condemnation of bear-baiting which, remarkably...makes a test of genuine Christian confession: "What Christian heart can take pleasure to see one poor beast to rent, tear and kill another, and all for his foolish pleasure? And although they be bloody beasts to mankind, and seek his destruction, yet we are not to abuse them, for his sake who made them, and whose creatures they are. For notwithstanding that they be evil to us, and thirst after our blood, yet they are good creatures in their own nature and kind, and made to set forth the glory and magnificence of the great God and for our use; and therefore for his sake not to be abused... we are not in any wise to spoil or hurt. Is he a Christian man, or rather a pseudo-Christian, that delights in blood?" From the 1640s the English Puritans had some opportunity to legislate against cruelty. Bearbaiting had been attacked as a full ugly sight as early as 1550, and Parliament ordered its suppression in 1642. Cockfighting was attacked by Perkins among others and finally prohibited by Cromwell in 1654. [...] Opposition to animal cruelty resumed with the Methodists and evangelicals of the eighteenth century who inherited a strong Protestant sentiment opposed cruelty and were again able to bring their theology to bear upon public policy. Horace Walpole is said to have remarked in 1760 that a certain man was known to be turning Methodist; for, in the middle of conversation, he rose, and opened the window to let out a moth. [...] As the eighteenth-century Christian Humphry Primatt wrote: If I know that a man is cruel to his beast, I ask no more questions about him. He may be a noble man, or a rich man. . . or a church man, or anything else, it matters not; this I know, on the sacred word of a wise king, that, being cruel to his beast, he is a wicked man.
(Six Modern Myths About Christianity & Western Civilization by Philip J. Sampson :84-85) I'm reminded of Nietzsche, as the fellow really didn't get that far beyond good and evil. E.g.
[Nietzsche] caused a public—and in reality humanely beautiful—scandal, which led to his transfer to the asylum for nervous diseases in Turin: Nietzsche interfered in Turin with a cab driver who was mistreating his horse, as so often happens in Italy. Nietzsche embraced the horse’s neck and prayed that it be beatified in the name of God. Then he collapsed.
(Nietzsche and After, by Robert Rie Journal of the History of Ideas, Vol. 13, No. 3. (Jun., 1952) :366) Animals are still sacrificed daily, it's just a little easier to forget to be thankful for sacrificial pain and loss when it is packaged by McDonalds and the like. A religion that prohibits killing of any kind was unlikely to be embraced in the part of the world where Abraham lived. If that had been a demand of Christianity there’d probably be nothing left of the religion today except a few small outposts of Christian Monks practicing non-violence and vegetarianism. History shows that those back closest to the source of Christianity didn't tend to spread it by the sword, instead they were often those put to the sword, yet Christianity increased exponentionally in such times anyway.mynym
September 15, 2006
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Dave -- Capitalism is an economic system based on Darwinian principles. If you are depending on a bank to randomly drop money on you to capitalize your enterprise you are going to be a pretty unsucessful captialist :-)tribune7
September 15, 2006
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taciturnus "I wonder what you make of Mark 5:8-13 and Mark 11:21" At the risk of being too blunt: fiction.DaveScot
September 15, 2006
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taciturnus I'm taking those conclusions from secondary sources. Is the organic machine attribution the only one you have a problem with and you thus agree that Aquinas' prohibitions against animal cruely was based solely on a belief that the practice would carry over into cruetly against humans? Or that he believed in Catholic doctrine that animals have no rights and were created by God for our use? Maybe you can tell me how how Aquinas interpreted Genesis where it says that God gave Adam & Eve seed bearing plants and fruit of the trees as their food.DaveScot
September 15, 2006
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Dave, Since you seem to view Jesus as a proto-animal rights activist, I wonder what you make of Mark 5:8-13 and Mark 11:21?taciturnus
September 15, 2006
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DaveScot, Additional comment on "Capitalism is an economic system based on Darwinian principles. It isn’t always a bad thing." Adam Smith developed the theory of Capitalism in his 1776 book "The Wealth of Nations" long before Darwin. Darwinism is more likely based on Capitalism than the other way around. Darwin's thinking was colored by the British obsession that flowed from Capitalism at the time -- one person or group out-competing others, plus the imperialism involving one group dominating another. Ah, yes, Darwin was a man of his time. And those times, they are a changing!Ekstasis
September 15, 2006
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From The Nazarene Way After my departure there will arise the ignorant and the crafty, and many things will they ascribe unto Me that I never spake, and many things which I did speak will they withhold, but the day will come when the clouds shall be rolled away, and the Sun of Righteousness shall shine forth with healing in his wings The Gospel of the Holy Twelve (a.k.a. Gospel of the Nazarenes; The Essene New Testament) Section 4, Lection 34
Love of Iesus for All Creatures. 1. WHEN Jesus knew how the Pharisees had murmured and complained because he made and baptized more disciples than John, he left Judea, and departed unto Galilee. 2. AND Jesus came to a certain Tree and abode beneath it many days. And there came Mary Magdalene and other women and ministered unto him of their substance, and he taught daily all that came unto him. 3. And the birds gathered around him, and welcomed him with their song, and other living creatures came unto his feet, and he fed them, and they ate out of his hands. 4. And when he departed he blessed the women who shewed love unto him, and turning to the fig tree, he blessed it also, saying. Thou hast given me shelter and shade from the burning heat, and withal thou hast given me food also. 5. Blessed be thou, increase and be fruitful, and let all who come to thee, find rest and shade and food, and let the birds of the air rejoice in thy branches. 6. And behold the tree grew and flourished exceedingly, and its branches took root downward, and sent shoots upward, and it spread mightily, so that no tree was like unto it for its size and beauty, and the abundance and goodness of its fruit. 7. AND as Jesus entered into a certain village he saw a young cat which had none to care for her, and she was hungry and cried unto him, and he took her up, and put her inside his garment, and she lay in his bosom. 8. And when he came into the village he set food and drink before the cat, and she ate and drank, and shewed thanks unto him. And he gave her unto one of his disciples, who was a widow, whose name was Lorenza, and she took care of her. 9. And some of the people said, This man careth for all creatures, are they his brothers and sisters that he should love them ? And he said unto them, Verily these are your fellow creatures of the great Household of God, yea, they are your brethren and sisters, having the same breath of life in the Eternal. 10. And whosoever careth for one of the least of these, and giveth it to eat and drink in its need, the same doeth it unto me, and whoso willingly suffereth one of these to be in want, and defendeth it not when evilly entreated, suffereth the evil as done unto me; for as ye have done in this life, so shall it be done unto you in the life to come.
DaveScot
September 15, 2006
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DaveScot, You've made a lot of accusations about Thomas Aquinas, a philosopher I've read extensively. I think your understanding of Aquinas is both simplistic and anachronistic. Are your views of Aquinas based on an actual reading of Aquinas? If so, where does he say something like: "Aquinas equates animals to organic machines" Cheers, Dave T.taciturnus
September 15, 2006
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But there are interesting parallels between a Smithian account of markets and a Darwinian account of nature.Carlos
September 15, 2006
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Exactly, Carlos. We all know that moral consequences of a scientific theory is not admissible as evidence for the veracity of the theory. But, of course social darwinisn is a philosophy and is subject to this test. Interesting thing about Torquemada and Hitler (along with all despotic types) is that they practised the philoshpy of megalomaniacal self-deification, and it is this philosophy that is antithetical to Christianity (more so, I would argue, than even atheism). For these sorts of people, the philosophical timbre of the day is a means to an end: to raise oneself to the highest place using the backs of other people.kvwells
September 15, 2006
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Capitalism is an economic system based on Darwinian principles. Comment by DaveScot — September 15, 2006 @ 10:28 am I disagree. In capitalism, no one receives anything of value unless they freely agree to provide another person with something of value. Hardly a "survival of the fittest" system, is it? In capitalist societies, "extinction" is caused by a failure to meet the needs of others, not from someone with longer arms grabbing the last banana on the tree. Creatures in Darwin's world compete for limited, pre-existing resources, while members of capitalist societies use work and creativy to create new and improved goods and service that other people want/need. Jonathan Wells goes into this in some detail in P.I.G. to ID & Darwinism.russ
September 15, 2006
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It's one thing to say that animals are only machines (where "machine" means, among other things, "not having a soul"). It's another to say that humans may do to them whatever they wish. Descartes held both views. Aquinas -- please correct me if I'm wrong -- only held the latter. Interestingly, one of the foremost philosophers of animal rights, Peter Singer, is regularly villified because he denies that there's any reason to value human life, just because it is human, over the lives of what he calls "non-human persons" (most mammals, some birds). And he's villified because he thinks that Darwin made possible the destruction of the myth of human uniqueness. Personally, I'm fond of Dobzhansky's quip, "all species are unique, but humans are the uniquest." I just wish I had a good handle on that means!Carlos
September 15, 2006
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Aquinas didn't abide animal cruelty ONLY because he believed it encouraged cruelty to humans. He promoted animal compassion ONLY because he believed it encouraged compassion towards human. Regardless, he believed as Descartes that animals are mere organic machines and fully backed the Catholic doctrine still vibrant today that animals were created by God for human use and that animals have no rights against humanity. He believed that "Thou shalt not kill" meant "Thou shalt not murder" thus leaving the door open to justifiable homicide and killing of animals. Contrast this with God saying that when his kingdom returns to the earth the lion shall eat straw as an oxen, the wolf will lie down with the lamb, and there will be no more destruction on his mountain. The along comes Christ who never in his perfect life killed anything or anyone. I think and feel that God's vision of an ideal world pretty clearly has no killing of any kind in it. Made in his image we should at least attempt to reach that ideal. Any scripture that appears to accomodate killing I believe is human authors at work mading edits for expediency. A religion that prohibits killing of any kind was unlikely to be embraced in the part of the world where Abraham lived. If that had been a demand of Christianity there'd probably be nothing left of the religion today except a few small outposts of Christian Monks practicing non-violence and vegetarianism. The Gospel of the Holy Twelve, the main Essene scripture, quotes Christ as saying: "Before all things is love, love ye one another and all the creatures of God, and by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples." I believe the Essene scripture to be correct inasmuch as it got the meat (pun intended) of Christ's message right.DaveScot
September 15, 2006
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The reason why people care about Hitler being a Darwinist was because his version of Darwinism influenced his murderous ideology. Exactly. It was his version of Darwinism. It was not what Darwin actually said -- as if that matters -- nor was it what contemporary scientists (Dobzhansky, Mayr, Maynard Smith, Gould, Dawkins) and philosophers (Kitcher, Sober, Dennett) have said. Judging Darwinism by Hitler is exactly the same as from judging Thomism by Torquemada. If the latter is unfair, then so the former; if the former is fair, then so is the latter.Carlos
September 15, 2006
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Aquinas equates animals to organic machines and their cries of pain no more or less than the noises of a machine with a worn or broken part. Combine this horrific lack of compassion for animals, taught by Aquinas and embraced by so many religious people, with a science that convincingly equates people to animals and what do you get? I find it extremely difficult to believe that Aquinas holds this view. Aquinas, if he was as good an Aristotelian as I've been led to believe, would have accepted Aristotle's view that animals have a soul, although not a rational soul. Descartes, on the other hand, did hold the kind of view ascribed above to Aquinas. But between Descartes and Aquinas there's a huge difference!Carlos
September 15, 2006
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Capitalism is an economic system based on Darwinian principles. It isn't always a bad thing. I can't blame Nazi eugenics entirely on Darwin. The observation that superior parents tend to produce superior offspring is ancient and that is the principle behind the science of eugenics. The problem comes about when we apply scientific principles unleavened by compassion. I blame Nazi eugenics on people like Thomas Aquinas as much as I blame it on Darwin. Aquinas equates animals to organic machines and their cries of pain no more or less than the noises of a machine with a worn or broken part. Combine this horrific lack of compassion for animals, taught by Aquinas and embraced by so many religious people, with a science that convincingly equates people to animals and what do you get? Nazi eugenics. There's nothing morally repugnant about equating people with animals so long as you feel compassion for animals too. It's said that God feels every sparrow that falls from the sky. There's a lesson for us there.DaveScot
September 15, 2006
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"I would like to hear from a single serious Darwinist who disapproves of stem cell research on discarded human embryos on ethical grounds." I know one. A microbiologist that worked for me is a militant Darwinist. He wanted to name a student award after Darwin and would stand and yell at me when I made a presentation on IDT. BUT, he was Catholic and was against stem cell research on ethical grounds. To his credit, he knew it didn't make sense.tmundie
September 15, 2006
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