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Huge discordance between gene trees in a new phylogenetic study

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A friend alerts us to this Abstract:

Angiosperms represent one of the most spectacular terrestrial radiations on the planet1, but their early diversification and phylogenetic relationships remain uncertain2,3,4,5. A key reason for this impasse is the paucity of complete genomes representing early-diverging angiosperms. Here, we present high-quality, chromosomal-level genome assemblies of two aquatic species—prickly waterlily (Euryale ferox; Nymphaeales) and the rigid hornwort (Ceratophyllum demersum; Ceratophyllales)—and expand the genomic representation for key sectors of the angiosperm tree of life. We identify multiple independent polyploidization events in each of the five major clades (that is, Nymphaeales, magnoliids, monocots, Ceratophyllales and eudicots). Furthermore, our phylogenomic analyses, which spanned multiple datasets and diverse methods, confirm that Amborella and Nymphaeales are successively sister to all other angiosperms. Furthermore, these genomes help to elucidate relationships among the major subclades within Mesangiospermae, which contain about 350,000 species. In particular, the species-poor lineage Ceratophyllales is supported as sister to eudicots, and monocots and magnoliids are placed as successively sister to Ceratophyllales and eudicots. Finally, our analyses indicate that incomplete lineage sorting may account for the incongruent phylogenetic placement of magnoliids between nuclear and plastid genomes.

Yang, Y., Sun, P., Lv, L. et al. Prickly waterlily and rigid hornwort genomes shed light on early angiosperm evolution. Nat. Plants (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41477-020-0594-6

The paper is open access.

From the paper: “Thus, what might account for this deep phylogenetic incongruence between nuclear and plastid genomes? As multiple independent polyploidization events were identified in magnoliids, monocots, Ceratophyllales and eudicots (Fig. 1), allopolyploidization or hybridization is one probable source of genomic discordance.”

“Deep phylogenetic incongruence” sounds like journalspeak for “our current phylogenetic tree is a hot mess.”

Comments
My comment @30 was related to @25 and @12 which are not related to you. You chose to get involved.jawa
March 2, 2020
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JVL, Do you like science? Specifically biology? Do you like GPuccio’s scientific contributions to this forum? Do you agree with gpuccio’s latest OPs and commentaries about protein functional information jumps?jawa
March 2, 2020
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JVL, What specifically you disagree with in Martin_r comments about the Unbelievable Dr Cronin vs Dr Tour debate?jawa
March 2, 2020
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Jawa, 30: JVL, Please, see again my comment @25. Thanks. I responded in 26 which you acknowledged in 27 31: Do you agree with everything that Martin_r wrote in the new thread about the Unbelievable discussion between Dr Cronin and Dr Tour ? Do you mind if we move this discussion there too? Thanks. No, I do not agree with everything martin_r wrote. But he's pretty adamant and I'm not sure it would be productive to discuss his position with him. I'll think about participating in that thread. 33: Do you remember that your first comment in this thread @13 directed at me was an off-topic curiosity question explicitly associated with Mimus? Well, then you should understand my comment @30. ???? then why was it addressed to me? You said , @16 if I answered your questions you'd answer mine. How many more questions do you want me to answer?JVL
March 2, 2020
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JVL, Do you remember that your first comment in this thread @13 directed at me was an off-topic curiosity question explicitly associated with Mimus? Well, then you should understand my comment @30. :)jawa
March 2, 2020
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JVL @29: Always. :)jawa
March 2, 2020
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JVL, Do you agree with everything that Martin_r wrote in the new thread about the Unbelievable discussion between Dr Cronin and Dr Tour ? Do you mind if we move this discussion there too? Thanks.jawa
March 2, 2020
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JVL, Please, see again my comment @25. Thanks.jawa
March 2, 2020
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Jawa: Still busy?JVL
March 1, 2020
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Jawa, 27: As you stated it correctly, that wasn’t directed at you. I would encourage anyone who is interested in the topic to check out the previous episode. The podcast was published on November 22nd and is available through iTunes. A couple of weeks earlier was a really fascinating episode called Is It Rational to Be Christian wherein the host, Justin Brierly, debated an atheist and explained why he's a Christian. Really, really good. It changed the way I thought about some issues. I also have to step away from my computer. Will try to come back later. It's Sunday, stuff to do!!JVL
March 1, 2020
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JVL, As you stated it correctly, that wasn’t directed at you. I also have to step away from my computer. Will try to come back later.jawa
March 1, 2020
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Jawa, 25: I’m still waiting for a response to my comment posted @12. That wasn't directed at me but I'm happy to answer it: Regardless of who posted it, wouldn’t you be interested in watching a very recent discussion on OOL between two leading-edge scientists that may have important things to say about that controversial topic? Why not? Because you’re not interested in serious scientific discussions? Another reason? Yup, that's why I listened to it. I am a subscriber to Unbelievable. Just to let you know, I've got to get on with some things so may not respond quickly but I will continute to respond unless I tell you otherwise.JVL
March 1, 2020
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I’m still waiting for a response to my comment posted @12.jawa
March 1, 2020
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Jawa, 23: I’m not done with my “on topic” questions yet. Your off-topic curiosity must wait patiently until the on-topic questions are responded satisfactorily. Deal? If a question isn’t answered satisfactorily then it automatically may provoke additional questions. Agree? Do I have a choice? Aside from abandoning my question. Go ahead, ask. (I think you meant 'responded TO satisfactorily' by the way.)JVL
March 1, 2020
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JVL, I’m not done with my “on topic” questions yet. Your off-topic curiosity must wait patiently until the on-topic questions are answered satisfactorily. Deal? If a question isn’t answered satisfactorily then it automatically may provoke additional questions. Agree?jawa
March 1, 2020
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Jawa: 21: Wrong observation. The comment posted by PavelU @2 is more on topic in this discussion than your off topic question. OOL is much more related to the current OP than your curiosity. Alright. Anyway, I answered your questions.JVL
March 1, 2020
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JVL @19: Wrong observation. The comment posted by PavelU @2 is more on topic in this discussion than your off topic question. OOL is much more related to the current OP than your curiosity.jawa
March 1, 2020
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Jawa, 17: Wrong assumption. I changed my question before I saw your post. Don’t assume things so lightly. Be careful next time. Alright. Jawa: 18: How would you summarize what happened in that discussion between Dr Cronin and Dr Tour? Back to that then anyway . . . It was a complicated conversation. I would summarise it as an origin of life researchers trying to indicate a possibly productive area of research countered by a skeptic who wanted to be sure no one was promising more that what was possible. But that's very, very general. There was a lot of to-and-fro and, in some ways, the conversation was disappointing in that Dr Cronin and Dr Tour sometimes seemed more interested in speaking against each other's position rather than discussing the science. Just my opinion.JVL
March 1, 2020
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Jawa, 16: I’ll answer your “off topic” question after you respond my questions which are more related to the topic of the current OP.If you’re really interested in my ”off topic” answer, you’ll prove it by responding my “on topic” questions. Deal? Not sure why you're trying to 'police' the discussion, your motivations seem a bit odd. Especially since you were the one that introduced the video into the conversation. So you can change the topic but when someone actually answers that question you change the issue? The abstract seems to suggest that two species genomes were fully sequenced and it may have highlighted some disparities between existing gene trees. But, as the last line of the abstract says:
Finally, our analyses indicate that incomplete lineage sorting may account for the incongruent phylogenetic placement of magnoliids between nuclear and plastid genomes.
So it seems more work should be done to clarify the situation. Which makes sense.JVL
March 1, 2020
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JVL @16: How would you summarize what happened in that discussion between Dr Cronin and Dr Tour?jawa
March 1, 2020
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JVL @15: “ Ah, I see you’ve changed your comment @14 since I posted my reply. I’m not sure why you did that.” Wrong assumption. I changed my question before I saw your post. Don’t assume things so lightly. Be careful next time.jawa
March 1, 2020
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JVL, I’ll answer your “off topic” question @13 after you respond my questions which are more related to the topic of the current OP. If you’re really interested in my ”off topic” answer, you’ll prove it by responding my “on topic” questions. Deal?jawa
March 1, 2020
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Jawa, 14: Did you watch the video PavelU posted @2? That video comes from the Unbelievable radio programme broadcast in the UK and available as an audio podcast. I listened to it yesterday as a matter of fact. It was considered part 2 of a conversation with Lee Cronin, part 1 having been broadcast last Autumn. (Justin, Lee and Jim all make reference to the previous episode.) I highly recommend the programme, not every week is fascinating but many are. So, just out of curiosity, is what Mimus is saying correct: are you posting at UD with more than one user name? Should I assume your dodging the question is a tacit 'yes'? Ah, I see you've changed your comment @14 since I posted my reply. I'm not sure why you did that.JVL
March 1, 2020
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JVL, Do you have any comment on the current OP?jawa
March 1, 2020
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Jawa Just out of curiosity, is what Mimus is saying correct: are you posting at UD with more than one user name?JVL
February 29, 2020
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Mimus, Regardless of who posted it, wouldn’t you be interested in watching a very recent discussion on OOL between two leading-edge scientists that may have important things to say about that controversial topic? Why not? Because you’re not interested in serious scientific discussions? Another reason?jawa
February 29, 2020
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To be honest, posting as multiple personalities and having fake discussions and even arguments between them is a type of lying. It makes it impossible to have a good faith conversation with you. I also think it points to a less then healthy connection to this website and topic, which I do not want to enable.Mimus
February 29, 2020
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Mimus, Regardless of who posted it, wouldn't you be interested in watching a very recent discussion on OOL between two leading-edge scientists that may have important things to say about that controversial topic? Why not? Because you're not interested in serious scientific discussions? Another reason? Why do you encourage others to ignore my posts? What is it that you dislike about them? BTW, remember that anonymous visitors are reading what you're writing here.jawa
February 29, 2020
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No,I didn't watch the video you posted under pavelU. I ignore all of your posts, and encourage others to do the same.Mimus
February 29, 2020
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Mimus, Did you watch the video PavelU posted @2? Contrary to what PavelU claims, the video shows how Dr Lee Cronin embarrassed himself mumbling all kinds of nonsense when Dr James Tour asked him very serious questions. Dr Cronin's promised breakthrough that would reveal a chemical path to OOL got discredited from the start of their discussion. At some point I felt sorry for Dr Cronin.jawa
February 29, 2020
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