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Jerad’s DDS Causes Him to Succumb to “Miller’s Mendacity” and Other Errors

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Part 1:  Jerad’s DDS (“Darwinist Derangement Syndrome”)

Sometimes one just has to stop, gape and stare at the things Darwinists say.  

Consider Jerad’s response to Sal’s 500 coin flip post.  He says:  “If I got 500 heads in a row I’d be very surprised and suspicious. I might even get the coin checked. But it could happen.”  Later he says that if asked about 500 heads in a row he would respond:  “I would NOT say it was ‘inconsistent with fair coins.’”  Then this:  “All we are saying is that any particular sequence is equally unlikely and that 500 heads is just one of those particular sequences.” 

No Jerad.  You are wrong. Stunningly, glaringly, gobsmackingly wrong, and it beggars belief that someone would say these things.  The probability of getting 500 heads in a row is (1/2)^500.  This is a probability far far beyond the universal probability bound.  Let me put it this way:  If every atom in the universe had been flipping a coin every second for the last 14.5 billion years, we would not expect to see this sequence even once. 

But, insists Jerad, it could happen.  Jerad’s statement is true only in the trivial sense that flipping 500 heads in a row is not physically or logically impossible.  Nevertheless, the probability of it actually happening is so vanishingly small that it can be considered a practical impossibility.  If a person refuses to admit this, it means they are either invincibly stupid or piggishly obstinate or both.  Either way, it makes no sense to argue with them.  (Charity compels me to believe Jerad will reform his statements upon reflection.) 

But, insists Jerad, the probability of the 500-heads-in-a-row sequence is exactly the same as the probability of any other sequence.  Again, Jerad’s statement is true only in the trivial sense that any 500 flip sequence of a fair coin has the exact same probability as any other.  Sadly, however, when we engage in a non-trivial analysis of the sequence we see that Jerad’s DDS has caused him to succumb to the Darwinist error I call “Miller’s Mendacity” (in homage to Johnson’s Berra’s Blunder).*  Miller’s Mendacity is named after Ken Miller, who once made the following statement in an interview:  

One of the mathematical tricks employed by intelligent design involves taking the present day situation and calculating probabilities that the present would have appeared randomly from events in the past. And the best example I can give is to sit down with four friends, shuffle a deck of 52 cards, and deal them out and keep an exact record of the order in which the cards were dealt. We can then look back and say ‘my goodness, how improbable this is. We can play cards for the rest of our lives and we would never ever deal the cards out in this exact same fashion.’ You know what; that’s absolutely correct. Nonetheless, you dealt them out and nonetheless you got the hand that you did. 

Miller’s analysis is either misleading or pointless, because no ID supporter has ever, as far as I know, argued “X is improbable; therefore X was designed.” Consider the example advanced by Miller, a sequence of 52 cards dealt from a shuffled deck. Miller’s point is that extremely improbable non-designed events occur all the time and therefore it is wrong to say extremely improbable events must be designed. Miller blatently misrepresents ID theory, because no ID proponent says that mere improbability denotes design. 

Let’s consider a more relevant example.  Suppose, Jerad and I played 200 hands of heads up poker and I was the dealer.  If I dealt myself a royal flush in spades on every hand, I am sure Jerad would not be satisfied if I pointed out the (again, trivially true) fact that the sequence “200 royal flushes in spades in a row” has exactly the same probability as any other 200 hand sequence.  Jerad would naturally conclude that I had been cheating, and when I had shuffled the deck I only appeared to randomize the cards.  In other words, he would make a perfectly reasonable design inference.

What is the difference between Miller’s example and mine?  In Miller’s example the sequence of cards was only highly improbable. In my example the sequence of cards was not only highly improbable, but it also conformed to a specification.  ID proponents do not argue that mere improbability denotes design. They argue that design is the best explanation where there is a highly improbable event AND that event conforms to an independently designated specification. 

Returning to Jerad’s 500 heads example, what are we to make of his statement that if that happened he “might” get the coin checked.  Blithering nonsense.  Of course he would not get the coin checked, because Jerad would already know to a moral certainty that the coin is not fair, and getting it “checked” would be a silly waste of time.  If Jerad denies that he would know to a moral certainty that the coin was not fair, that only means that he is invincibly stupid or piggishly obstinate or both.  Again, either way, it would make no sense to argue with him.  (And again, charity compels me to believe that upon reflection Jerad would not deny this.) 

Part 2:  Why Would Jerad Say These Things? 

Responding to Jerad’s probability analysis is child’s play.  He makes the same old tiresome Darwinist errors that we have had to correct countless times before and will doubtless have to correct again countless times in the future. 

As the title of this post suggests, however, far more interesting to me is why Jerad – an obviously reasonably intelligent commenter – would say such things at all.  Sal calls it SSDD (Space Shuttle Denying Darwinist or Same Stuff, Different Darwinist).  I call it Darwinist Derangement Syndrome (“DDS”).  DDS is somewhat akin to Tourette syndrome in that sufferers appear to be compelled to make inexplicable statements (e.g., if I got 500 heads in a row I “might” get the coin checked or “It could happen.”).   

DDS is a sad and somewhat pathetic condition that I hope one day to have included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association.  The manual is already larded up with diagnostic inflation; why not another? 

What causes DDS?  Of course, it is difficult to be certain, but my best guess is that it results from an extreme commitment to materialist metaphysics.  What is the recommended treatment for DDS?  The only thing we can do is patiently point out the obvious over and over and over, with the small (but, one hopes, not altogether non-existent) chance that one day the patient will recover his senses. 

*I took Ken Miller down on his error in this post

Comments
(A) if you are “suspicious” this means that you suspect a non random cause involved; (B) if you “don’t believe in a design” this means that you do NOT suspect a non random cause involved. Do you see that you cannot concatenate A and B, as you did, because you become illogical?
Elizabeth said much the same thing I would have said if I wasn't asleep at the time.
So, I don’t believe any number of monkeys tossing that coin would ever, in all eternity, produce a perfect sequence of 500 heads, as asserted by Liddle.
Specify any sequence of Hs and Ts 500 long and if you set it as your target you might not ever get it. They're all equally likely and unlikely.Jerad
June 23, 2013
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But, insists Jerad, the probability of the 500-heads-in-a-row sequence is exactly the same as the probability of any other sequence. Again, Jerad’s statement is true only in the trivial sense that any 500 flip sequence of a fair coin has the exact same probability as any other
In what other sense might it be true?Mark Frank
June 23, 2013
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To Darwinists, 500 H's in a row is just a state of mere complexity no different or more/less valuable/important than any other state. However, to ID'st who wisely take the concept of information to a higher semantic and functional level, 500 H's in a row indeed translates into design.computerist
June 23, 2013
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Consider me obtuse if you will, chance means nothing because you still require a mechanism (cause) to flip the coin. The coin won't do zip and neither will chance something has to trigger it. BTW a 500 heads in a row coin flip is possible but not probable. For the 3 billion base pairs that make a human, please explain to me how it is even possible or probable that their arrangement by chance over time could give rise to the complexity of a human. you may even use small successive steps in your explanation if you like. Good luck!Andre
June 23, 2013
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BTW, for the record, in my post #56, 230000 and 299997000 should be 2^30000 and 2^999970000.CS3
June 23, 2013
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Regarding my last post, please note that I meant to drop the negative in the exponent. Whoopsie!TheMapleKind
June 23, 2013
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Now, regarding this business of a sequence of 500 coin flips of a fair coin, the only time we should not be surprised at the result is for one of two reasons, I think: a) All possible sequences represent an unspecified sequence (e.g., combination results in no self-replicator) b) A large portion of possible sequences symbolize an unspecified sequence (e.g., 51% of possible sequences result in something signifying self-replicator... heck, if even 10% were classified as such, we still ought not be flabbergasted). I believe the point is that if, let's say, out of the 3.27*10^150 possible sequences for the 500 flips, only 1 or even 10,000 signify a self-replicator, why ought one not be surprised when the result matches one of those sequences? If we're talking about the odds of getting a self-replicator vs. not getting one, then the odds are incredibly in favor of no self-replicator even if 10,000 possible sequences represent a self-replicator. That's 1 in 3.27*10^-146. Just a wee bit unlikely, wouldn't one think?TheMapleKind
June 23, 2013
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keiths, please tell us why your SSN is no different from any other 9 digit number. plzMung
June 23, 2013
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Mung, I doubt he's saying that. I'm pretty sure he's talking about a randomly rolled sequence of die being rolled to match his SSN, not his SSN being assigned.TheMapleKind
June 23, 2013
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Can someone please explain reality to keiths? He thinks his SSN was assigned to him based on a lottery. He can't explain why his SSN is his and not someone else's. REALLY? *sigh*Mung
June 23, 2013
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Could someone please explain this to Mung?
My SSN is no more improbable than any other 9-digit number, but it is one of a very small set of 9-digit numbers that are significant to me. The odds of sitting down and rolling a personally significant number are therefore low.
keiths
June 23, 2013
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*sigh*Mung
June 23, 2013
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Mung: So your SSN is just as likely to identify you as it is to identify someone who is not you? keiths: No. Who said it was? You said it was. You claimed that all 9 digits numbers used to identify people by the US Government (Social Security Number) are equiprobable. I shouted NONSENSE! Now, please explain why you and dozens of other people do not have the same SSN if any 9-Digit number assigned by the US Government is equiprobable. keiths:
My SSN is no more improbable than any other 9-digit number
REALLY? Do you think the US Government would take the chance that you and anyone else might share the same SSN? If not, then your claim is false.Mung
June 23, 2013
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Yes, Mung, REALLY. If I roll a ten-sided die 9 times, my SSN is no more likely or unlikely to come up than any other 9-digit number. That's Probability 101. The reason I would be surprised to see it come up is because it is significant to me. As I explained above, in the quote that you cut short:
My SSN is no more improbable than any other 9-digit number, but it is one of a very small set of 9-digit numbers that are significant to me. The odds of sitting down and rolling a personally significant number are therefore low.
Mung:
So your SSN is just as likely to identify you as it is to identify someone who is not you?
No. Who said it was?keiths
June 23, 2013
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KF, Thanks. What I was looking for, and I'm sorry I wasn't clear, was examples of evolutionists conflating OOL with evolution while on the other hand, they assert that the two aren't related.bb
June 23, 2013
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Keiths:
My SSN is no more improbable than any other 9-digit number
REALLY? So your SSN is just as likely to identify you as it is to identify someone who is not you? And that's why the IRS uses it to identify you rather than someone who is not you? *sigh*Mung
June 23, 2013
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Elizabeth B. Liddle:
Probabilities are derived from frequency distributions.
Right. We take every two-sided coin in the universe and toss it billions of times in order to determine the probability that a two-sided coin will come up heads.Mung
June 23, 2013
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Neil Rickert:
There’s a problem when you take a pattern that has already occurred, and then claim it is so improbable that it could not have occurred naturally.
Like tossing a coin 500 times and recording the results? That's something that occurs "naturally"? REALLY?Mung
June 23, 2013
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Neil Rickert:
Flip a coin 500 times. Write down the exact sequence that you got. We can say of that sequence, that it had a probability of (1/2)^500. It is a sequence that we would not expect to see even once. Yet we saw it. This is a common fallacy about probabilistic thinking.
What a laugher. Neil, it's posts just like this that make your credibility hover consistently right around zero. God help us. Flip a two-sided coin. Record the result. Repeat this process 499 more times. What are the odds that the results you record are not the same as what the actual coin tosses produced? Well, if you're a moron, or a darwinist ... Take 500 coins and toss them in the air. Once they have landed, record the number of heads and the number of tails. How surprised are you by the results? But really, that's a once in a lifetime thing you just observed! *sigh* REALLY?Mung
June 23, 2013
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Neil: "Flip a coin 500 times. Write down the exact sequence that you got." Mung: Flip a coin 500 times. Have it write down the exact sequence that it produced. The odds are similar, imo.Mung
June 23, 2013
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Jerad is not a Darwinist, he is a mathematician. Now right off the bat that makes me wonder just what sort of mathematician could believe in Darwinism.Mung
June 23, 2013
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BB: The reason the MU experiment -- decades after it was put under a cloud regarding likely atmospheric chemistry -- still appears in textbooks is that it provides at least an icon on the root of the tree of life model. And that is your other icon. To which we can point out, no roots, no shoots or anything else. KFkairosfocus
June 23, 2013
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Cross-posted from TSZ: Sal, If we flip a coin 500 times and get all heads, then yes, of course it requires an explanation — but not because 500 heads are less probable than any other specific sequence, and also not because there are many, many more ways of getting roughly 250 heads than there are of getting 500 heads. The reason that getting 500 heads is surprising is that a 500-head sequence is one of a very small number of sequences that are significant to us in advance. The number of possible sequences is huge, and the number of significant sequences is tiny, so the probability of hitting a significant sequence is extremely low. I explained this above in my Social Security number analogy:
Mike,
How can anyone claim to assert that an event is improbable when they have seen only one instance of it?
In Sal’s defense, even one-off events can be identified as improbable under certain hypotheses. If I roll a fair ten-sided die nine times and come up with my Social Security number, then a very improbable event has occurred, even if I don’t repeat the experiment.
My SSN is no more improbable than any other 9-digit number, but it is one of a very small set of 9-digit numbers that are significant to me. The odds of sitting down and rolling a personally significant number are therefore low. So yes, a sequence of 500 heads requires an explanation. It’s just that design isn’t the only alternative to chance. Likewise for homochirality. As I said in an earlier comment:
If I were arguing Sal’s case for him, I would put it this way: Given that we observe a sequence of 500 heads, which explanation is more likely to be true? a) the coins are fair, the flips were random, and we just happened to get 500 heads in a row; or b) other factors are biasing (and perhaps determining) the outcome. The obvious answer is (b). In the case of homochirality, Sal’s mistake is to leap from (b) directly to a conclusion of design, which is silly. In other words, he sees the space of possibilities as {homochiral by chance, homochiral by design}. He rules out ‘homochiral by chance’ as being too improbable and concludes ‘homochiral by design’. Such a leap would be justified only if he already knew that homochirality couldn’t be explained by any non-chance, non-design mechanism (such as Darwinian evolution). But that, of course, is precisely what he is trying to demonstrate. He has assumed his conclusion.
keiths
June 23, 2013
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KF, I often hear it said that the subject of evolution doesn't involve origin of life. That really strikes me as odd but, other than the Miller-Urey experiment mentioned in the "evolution" section of biology textbooks, I can't think of an example of where the 2 are linked. Can you help me?bb
June 23, 2013
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One more note: while "simply describable" may seem a broad term that could apply to most outcomes, that is actually not the case:
If we toss a billion coins, it is true that any sequence is as improbable as any other, but most of us would still be surprised, and suspect that something other than chance is going on, if the result were "all heads", or "alternating heads and tails", or even "all tails except for coins 3i + 5, for integer i". When we produce simply describable results like these, we have done something "macroscopically" describable which is extremely improbable. There are so many simply describable results possible that it is tempting to think that all or most outcomes could be simply described in some way, but in fact, there are only about 230000 different 1000-word paragraphs, so the odds are about 2999970000 to 1 that a given result will not be that highly ordered - so our surprise would be quite justified. And if it can't be described in 1000 English words and symbols, it isn't very simply describable.
CS3
June 23, 2013
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OOPS, 10^14 events/s. KFkairosfocus
June 23, 2013
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Not only that, but there is an erroneous, if conventional, assumption that the odds for each toss are evens for both, while no allowance is made for the primacy of divine Providence even over mathematics, which latter It has disposed, doubtless indicatively, to be incomplete in its scope. And there wold be no way of factoring in such an assumption, since God's will is essentially arbitrary. Indeed, He might choose not to intervene, other than to ordain ball-park limits, also on patterns of sequences occurring, in actual coin-toss trials. A pound to a pinch of snuff, such a practical limit is way below even the realistic, theoretical one.Axel
June 23, 2013
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CS3, actually, well beyond astronomical. KFkairosfocus
June 23, 2013
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F/N: in 13.7 BY, at 10^124 events/s 10^80 atoms will undergo 4.323*10^111 events. 1,000 bits has 1.07 *10^301 possibilities. Using the same needle in haystack back of envelope calc [subject to cross check], we are dealing with a 1 -straw sample of a haystack 1.43 *10^41 LY across. The observed cosmos is maybe 50 - 100 bn LY across, totally lost in that conceptual haystack. In short, 1,000 H in a row "by chance" on the gamut of the observed cosmos is an are you joking case. KFkairosfocus
June 23, 2013
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Elizabeth Liddle: As I believe you agree, the Excel-generated sequence you presented can (I assume) only be described using a long sequence of bits (i.e., a 500-bit coin-by-coin accounting, or perhaps something a little shorter by applying a compression algorithm), whereas the sequence "all heads" can be described with one bit. As Granville wrote,
The reason why 500 straight coins would raise eyebrows, and most other results, while equally improbable, would not, is easy: because “all heads” is simply describable, and most others are not (many would be describable only in 500 bits, by actually listing the result). If we flip n fair coins, the probability that the result can be described in m bits, since there are at most 2^m such results, is less than 2^m/2^n. So if you flip a billion coins, and get “all heads” or “(only) all prime numbered coins are heads” you would rightly be surprised and suspect something other than chance.
Also, you said, correctly:
BUT: No ONE of the 2^500 different possible sequences is any more or less likely than any other. Some classes of sequences are rarer than others, and therefore one of those rare classes is much less likely than one of the common classes.
However, it should be noted that fundamental scientific laws are based on the fact that some classes of sequences (i.e., simply describable ones) are more improbable than others. From General Chemistry, 5th Edition, by Whitten, Davis, and Peck, discussing the Second Law of Thermodynamics and referencing a figure showing a closed system consisting of two bulbs connected by an open stopcock containing molecules of two gasses (one red and one blue)::
The ideas of entropy, order, and disorder are related to probability. The more ways an event can happen, the more probable that event is. In Figure 15-10b (showing both red and blue molecules randomly mixed in both bulbs) each individual red molecule is equally likely to be in either container, as is each individual blue molecule. As a result, there are many ways in which the mixed arrangement of Figure 15-10b can occur, so the probability of its occurrence is high, and so its entropy is high. In contrast, there is only one way the unmixed arrangement in Figure 15-10a (showing all red molecules in one bulb and all blue molecules in the other bulb) can occur. The resulting probability is extremely low, and the entropy of this arrangement is low.
So, even though the particular arrangement in Figure 15-10a is indeed just as likely as any particular arrangement in Figure 15-10b, the Second Law predicts it will not occur, because there are many more arrangements of the type shown in Figure 15-10b. Similarly, from Granville:
Natural forces may turn a spaceship into a pile of rubble, but not vice-versa — not because the exact arrangement of atoms in a given spaceship is more improbable than the exact arrangement of atoms in a given pile of rubble, but because (whether the Earth receives energy from the Sun or not) there are very few arrangements of atoms which would be able to fly to the moon and return safely, and very many which could not.
For those arguing, sure it's astronomically unlikely, but it's still theoretically possible: well, sure, but in what other branch of science is an astronomically unlikely explanation considered a good explanation, much less an unassailable "fact" as "undisputed as gravity"? If the mere bare chance is sufficient, why are multiverses needed to explain the "lucky" values of the fundamental constants, and why is a gradual Darwinian process needed to explain complex life? While some IDers might argue that there are epigenomic concerns that make the evolution of complex life not just a matter of probabilities, most would agree that the information needed for, say, a flagellum, could theoretically have arisen by an extraordinarily lucky set of random mutations. Most Darwinists would agree though that this is a poor scientific explanation, hence the need to explain it in terms of smaller, much less improbable steps. If a scientist observed the stopcock example above and saw that, after opening the stopcock, all the red particles stayed in one bulb and all the blue particles stayed in the other bulb, would he/she just conclude, well, this is extremely improbable, but still possible, so I'll just continue to assume diffusion alone is operative in this situation, or would he/she look for an alternative explanation (i.e., the gasses have a difference in some relevant property that means diffusion is not the only process in effect, or the stopcock is jammed, or something)? With regards to probabilistic resources:
If we repeat an experiment 2^k times, and define an event to be ‘‘simply describable’’ (macroscopically describable) if it can be described in m or fewer bits (so that there are 2^m or fewer such events), and ‘‘extremely improbable’’ when it has probability 1/2^n or less, then the probability that any extremely improbable, simply describable event will ever occur is less than 2^(k+m)/2^n. Thus we just have to make sure to choose n to be much larger than k + m. ... For practical purposes, almost anything that can be described without resorting to an atom-by-atom (or coin-by-coin) accounting can be considered ‘‘macroscopically’’ describable.
CS3
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