Math prof asks Rob Sheldon: But how do we know that it isn’t a conscious machine?

My apologies, I didn't mean it. I hope no one was hurt by my words. In all seriousness, I am from a cancer family. Mom, dad and a sister I never knew and dad's sister. I am sure there are more but you get the point. So I look into this all of the time. And what I posted is what I have found out. The mitochondria thing was really interesting but that fermentation process has to be the key. Oh- free radicals seem to destroy cells setting them up to become cancerous. So I take many forms of different anti-oxidants. ET

ET, you got my attention, bigtime. KF kairosfocus

Cure for cancer? Well it seems that all cancerous cells get their energy from the inefficient process of fermentation. It also seems to do this they have to get rid of most of their mitochondria. One study found that adding mitochondria to the cancerous cells slowed their growth. However the smart money would be on stopping the fermentation process. There must be a way to block that chemical pathway. And BTW, because cancerous cells use fermentation they also need an abundance of sugar, more than normal cells need. That is because getting energy from fermentation is very inefficient. ET

Example? Does the medical community consist of intelligent agents? Do they not intentionally take actions for the purpose of treating and curing diseases such as cancer? Are they non-determined? If the answers to the above are all "Yes", and we take your claim seriously, for the purpose of criticism, then shouldn't we have a cure for cancer by now, right? But we do not. So, why don't we? critical rationalist

But, as I've pointed out, the contents of theories do not come from observations. Specifically, they are not out there for us to observe. Nor do observations come with some tag with a theory printed on them. We guess then test our guesses, discarding errors that we find. So, it's unclear how being non-determined solves the problem of creating genuinely new knowledge. critical rationalist

By definition no Turing machine, quantum, nondeterministic, or otherwise, can create CSI. The initial conditions always determine the outcome, which results in non-positive expected CSI. The only way to get positive expected CSI is with an entity that is not determined by initial conditions. This is necessarily true due to the math. If creation of CSI is a necessary condition for consciousness, then nothing we create can ever be conscious. EricMH

of related note to the question of some futuristic quantum computing machine creating functional information, and thus violating the law of conservation of information, and therefore, in the process of doing that, passing the Turing and Lovelace tests,,,, in other words. of related note to the question of some futuristic quantum computing machine truly imitating conscious intelligence,,, It is interesting to note that biological systems already far surpass anything man has done in terms of quantum computing.,,,

Darwinian Materialism vs Quantum Biology https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHdD2Am1g5Y

Quantum Entanglement is already found in every DNA and protein molecule. Moreover, monster 'travelling salesman' search problems are involved in both protein folding and DNA finding appropriate DNA sequences. Search problems that would take our most advanced 'classical' computers extremely long amounts of time to solve, and yet, in life the 'monster' search problems are solved in fractions of a second in life.

Physicists Discover Quantum Law of Protein Folding – February 22, 2011 Quantum mechanics finally explains why protein folding depends on temperature in such a strange way. Excerpt: First, a little background on protein folding. Proteins are long chains of amino acids that become biologically active only when they fold into specific, highly complex shapes. The puzzle is how proteins do this so quickly when they have so many possible configurations to choose from. To put this in perspective, a relatively small protein of only 100 amino acids can take some 10^100 different configurations. If it tried these shapes at the rate of 100 billion a second, it would take longer than the age of the universe to find the correct one. Just how these molecules do the job in nanoseconds, nobody knows.,,, Today, Luo and Lo say these curves can be easily explained if the process of folding is a quantum affair. By conventional thinking, a chain of amino acids can only change from one shape to another by mechanically passing though various shapes in between. But Luo and Lo say that if this process were a quantum one, the shape could change by quantum transition, meaning that the protein could ‘jump’ from one shape to another without necessarily forming the shapes in between.,,, Their astonishing result is that this quantum transition model fits the folding curves of 15 different proteins and even explains the difference in folding and unfolding rates of the same proteins. That's a significant breakthrough. Luo and Lo's equations amount to the first universal laws of protein folding. That’s the equivalent in biology to something like the thermodynamic laws in physics. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/423087/physicists-discover-quantum-law-of-protein/ Scientists' 3-D View of Genes-at-Work Is Paradigm Shift in Genetics - Dec. 2009 Excerpt: Highly coordinated chromosomal choreography leads genes and the sequences controlling them, which are often positioned huge distances apart on chromosomes, to these 'hot spots'. Once close together within the same transcription factory, genes get switched on (a process called transcription) at an appropriate level at the right time in a specific cell type. This is the first demonstration that genes encoding proteins with related physiological role visit the same factory. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091215160649.htm DNA computer helps travelling salesman - 2000 One of the hardest problems a computer can encounter has been solved by using DNA molecules, reports Philip Ball. https://www.nature.com/articles/35003155

This strongly indicates that quantum computation is solving these 'monster' search problems for protein folding and finding appropriate DNA sequences. The reason I bring this up is that, although the molecules of biological organism already far surpass anything man has ever accomplished in terms of quantum computing, the quantum computing in life, whilst solving these 'monster' traveling salesman problems, and as impressive as that is, still has not demonstrated the ability to 'create' a single gene of functional information that was not already present in a genome. This apparent inability of quantum computational processes in life to 'create' new 'classical' information in DNA strongly suggests that conscious intelligence, contrary to what Penrose and Hameroff would like to believe for quantum computation in brain molecules, is not reducible to a strictly quantum computational process. As 'spooky' as quantum mechanics is, it seems evident that there is something very special about conscious intelligence that will forever be beyond the power of humans to create in quantum computers, and will therefore forever remain a gift that God himself bestows. Of related note: Although the purported evidence for human evolution is far weaker and illusory than most people realize, it is interesting to note that leading Darwinists themselves admit that they have no clue how evolution could have produced the particular trait of language in humans.

Leading Evolutionary Scientists Admit We Have No Evolutionary Explanation of Human Language – December 19, 2014 Excerpt: Understanding the evolution of language requires evidence regarding origins and processes that led to change. In the last 40 years, there has been an explosion of research on this problem as well as a sense that considerable progress has been made. We argue instead that the richness of ideas is accompanied by a poverty of evidence, with essentially no explanation of how and why our linguistic computations and representations evolved.,,, (Marc Hauser, Charles Yang, Robert Berwick, Ian Tattersall, Michael J. Ryan, Jeffrey Watumull, Noam Chomsky and Richard C. Lewontin, “The mystery of language evolution,” Frontiers in Psychology, Vol 5:401 (May 7, 2014).) Casey Luskin added: “It’s difficult to imagine much stronger words from a more prestigious collection of experts.” http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/12/leading_evoluti092141.html

What is more interesting still, besides the fact that humans have a unique ability to understand and create information and have become 'masters of the planet' through the ‘top-down’ infusion of information into material substrates, is the fact that, due to advances in science, both the universe and life itself are now found to be ‘information theoretic’ in their foundational basis. It is hard to imagine a more convincing scientific proof that we are made ‘in the image of God’ than finding both the universe, and life itself, are both ‘information theoretic’ in their foundational basis, and that we, of all the creatures on earth, uniquely possess an ability to understand and create information, and, moreover, have come to ‘master the planet’ precisely because of our unique ability infuse information into material substrates. Verses:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life, and that life was the Light of men.

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A machine, whether it be a quantum machine or a classical machine, that could violate the law of conservation of information by creating functional information would pass the Turing test as well as passing the more rigorous, and 'scientific', Lovelace test.

Artificial Intelligence and Human Exceptionalism: Dr. Robert Marks - video https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.mclatchie/videos/10155707921776943/ Robert Marks on the Lovelace Test - January 23, 2018, Marks explains the Lovelace test which, unlike the better-known Turing test, focuses precisely on this hard limit to what computer algorithms can do. AI cannot, in this sense, truly create. https://evolutionnews.org/2018/01/robert-marks-on-the-lovelace-test/

Please note that the creation of functional information, despite all the bluff and bluster from Darwinists, is precisely what Darwinian processes have consistently failed to do. ,,, In fact, Darwinian processes overwhelmingly tend to degrade preexisting functional information (John Sanford; Genetic Entropy). As ID advocates have been pointing out for years, only minds are known to be able to create functional information.

Signs of Intelligence DNA by Design: by Stephen C. Meyer - 2010 Excerpt; As the pioneering information theorist Henry Quastler observed, “Information habitually arises from conscious activity.” http://www.khouse.org/articles/2010/917/

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