Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Miller’s “Evolutionary Design” – an oxymoron or Trojan horse?

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“Evolution” is defined so broadly as to prevent refutation. That requires that the whale of “macroevolution” (simple organism to human beings) must be swallowed along with the gnat of “microevolution” – any mutation or change = “evolution”.

Now Kenneth Miller is attempting to transform the Design vs Evolution argument, by claiming nature reveals “evolutionary design” – purely based on “nature” – without an intelligent cause.
Will the public recognize this as an oxymoron?
OR
Will it welcomed as the Trojan horse that undermines Intelligent Design?
————————
There Is ‘Design’ In Nature, Biologist Argues

“ScienceDaily (Feb. 18, 2008) — Brown University biologist Kenneth Miller has to hand one victory to the “intelligent design” crowd. They know how to frame an issue. “The idea that there is ‘design’ in nature is very appealing,” Miller said. “People want to believe that life isn’t purposeless and random. That’s why the intelligent design movement wins the emotional battle for adherents despite its utter lack of scientific support.”

“To fight back, scientists need to reclaim the language of ‘design’ and the sense of purpose and value inherent in a scientific understanding of nature,” he said.
In a Feb. 17, 2008 symposium at the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) annual meeting in Boston,* Miller will argue that science itself, including evolutionary biology, is predicated on the idea of “design” — the correlation of structure with function that lies at the heart of the molecular nature of life. . . “

“Miller will use arguments from his new book, Only a Theory: Evolution and the Battle for America’s Soul to be published by Viking Press in May, for his AAAS talk. Miller will argue that the scientific community must address the attractiveness of the “design” concept and make the case that science itself is based on the idea of design — or the regularity of organization, function, and natural law that gives rise to the world in which we live.

“He points out that structural and molecular biologists routinely speak of the design of proteins, signaling pathways, and cellular structures. He also notes that the human body bears the hallmarks of design, from the ball sockets that allows hips and shoulders to rotate to the “s” curve of the spine that allows for upright walking.
“There is, indeed, a design to life — an evolutionary design,” Miller said. “The structures in our bodies have changed over time, as have its functions. Scientists should embrace this concept of ‘design,’ and in so doing, claim for science the sense of orderly rationality in nature to which the anti-evolution movement has long appealed.”

“In a Feb. 17, 2008 symposium at the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) annual meeting in Boston,* Miller will argue that science itself, including evolutionary biology, is predicated on the idea of “design” — the correlation of structure with function that lies at the heart of the molecular nature of life.”

See full article: Brown University (2008, February 18). There Is ‘Design’ In Nature, Biologist Argues. ScienceDaily. Retrieved February 21, 2008, from http://www.sciencedaily.com­ /releases/2008/02/080217143838.htm

Comments
jerry: sorry to respectfully disagree on many points: "I give the definition of evolution that genetics, biology and evolutionary biology use and it is one of the 6 definitions that Meyers and Keas give and it is the only one that can be used in scientific context and it is called “that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard!”" Still, it is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I don't like authority in any form, least of all definitions. Calling evolution any form of random change is only a bad use of words. "There is no concept of direction in evolutionary biology. You are confusing the lay man’s general understanding of the term with the science" Not true. There is the precise direction of reproductive advantage, or, if you want, of fitness. Not that I agree with that, but that's the standard theory. And it definitely is a direction, that is a specific parameter by which scientists are trying to explain biological changes. Change can be completely random, and un that case it has no direction. Ot it can be explained according to a directional parameter, and in that case it could be classified as evolutional or involutional according to that parameter. What is evolution according to one direction, could be involution or neutral change according to another direction. If, as you say, there is no concept of dierction in evolutionary biology, then what is the sense of the theory of natural selection? Selection without direction? Purely random variation? I must miss something... "It may be a direction but not the one understood by the layman." I am not especially interested in what is understood by the layman, no more than I am in what is understood by the scientist. I am interested in the real meaning of things, whoever understands them. "And don’t say I am disputing that there has been a direction to the unfolding of life because I am not. " Well, do we agree on that at least? "All I am doing is pressing for some common sense definition of terms so that those here can be consistent with the scientific community." Easy enough. Try this. Evolution is a generic term which means nothing unless we specify it better. "Darwinian evolution", or "neodarwinian evolution" or "non directed evolution" (and others) are common expressions, none of which I have reasons to prefer, to define those (scientific) theories which, in essence, try to explain biological information purely (or most) in trems of RV + NS, excluding any role of design. And, for design, I mean the product of a conscious intelligent mind, which is the only possible definition, whatever Miller thinks. Where is the problem? These are the precise definitions we need. "And don’t say you do not care what the scientific community says. That is nonsenses." I care, but not necessarily agree. "All here would welcome acceptance by members of science and we tout it when someone gives tacit approval." Not me. I just would welcome intelligent and sincere acceptance of ID by anybody, because I believe that it is the best model. That's just it. I care for what I believe, and respect all persons just the same, whatever their social or scientific status. "There is even a list of scientists who have sympathy for ID which many are proud of." I am not proud. I am happy that they have made the most reasonable choice. "ID shoots itself in the foot by its reflexive attitude against the standard theory of evolution when this theory probably explains 90+% of life on the planet. " I absolutely don't believe that "the standard theory of evolution" "probably explains 90+% of life on the planet". I believe it explains almost nothing. That's why I post here, in the ID field, and not elsewhere. It's not just to chat about something and spend time. I feel that this debate is very important, and I have full cognitive commitment to the principles of ID, that practically "all" relevant biological information is the product of design, starting from the first bacteria to humans. If that's shooting myself in the foot, well, of that I am proud.gpuccio
February 23, 2008
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jerry, I agree about the need for precision. The problem is that although you're correct about the scientific definition of evolution the common usage of the term (even including many scientists) can refer to a variety of things. That's why I prefer to avoid the usage of the term and instead refer to "Darwinism" in order to make a distinction. Of course, that term has its own problems since some people reject it or consider its definition to be different. I also prefer to make distinctions between components that should rightly be considered a theory and hypotheses as provisional conjectures (many of which amount to storytelling). So onto the main problem. In the public domain the easily acceptable scientific definition of evolution is being conflated with other subjects. For example, in teaching practice evolution will be implicitly conflated with Darwinism in the new Florida standard (unless there is another section that gives a more precise definition?).
Evolution and Diversity: A. Evolution is the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported by multiple forms of scientific evidence. B. Organisms are classified based on their evolutionary history. C. Natural selection is the primary mechanism leading to evolutionary change.
I don't care about quibbling over the "just a theory" nonsense (which just gives validation, since a theory generally has supporting evidence [which is an argument itself, since some prefer to stick to a theory "merely" being a logically structured attempt at an explanation, and not even mention evidence]). Section A is so vague it does a disservice to Florida students and I know at least a couple Darwinists who'd argue against Section C.Patrick
February 23, 2008
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"that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard!" I give the definition of evolution that genetics, biology and evolutionary biology use and it is one of the 6 definitions that Meyers and Keas give and it is the only one that can be used in scientific context and it is called "that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard!" I love it. gpuccio, "But I can think of no definition which does not give at least a connotation of “direction”" There is no concept of direction in evolutionary biology. You are confusing the lay man's general understanding of the term with the science. If tomorrow, a bacteria wiped out all multi-cellular life on the planet, that would be evolution. Unfortunate, but evolution. It may be a direction but not the one understood by the layman. And don't say I am disputing that there has been a direction to the unfolding of life because I am not. All I am doing is pressing for some common sense definition of terms so that those here can be consistent with the scientific community. And don't say you do not care what the scientific community says. That is nonsenses. All here would welcome acceptance by members of science and we tout it when someone gives tacit approval. There is even a list of scientists who have sympathy for ID which many are proud of. ID shoots itself in the foot by its reflexive attitude against the standard theory of evolution when this theory probably explains 90+% of life on the planet. When ID gets smart, it will start being accepted more.jerry
February 23, 2008
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jerry: "Evolutionary biology is usually very clear on its definition of evolution. It is any change in the allele frequency of a population over time". I am a little confused. In what sense would a simple change of allele frequency be "evolution"? That is scientific, linguistic and rational nonsense! Let's call it allele frequency variation, which is its due name. Evolution can be defined in myriads of ways, and believe me, it's not only IDists who use different definitions, but darwinists first of all, both implicitly and explicitly. But I can think of no definition which does not give at least a connotation of "direction", in a sense which has to be defined in the various contexts. Simple change has never been called "evolution", not even by the dumbest otpimist! Simple change is just that, change, variation, mutation, difference, or whatever you like. As popular wisdom goes, things change. That would be difficult to deny. I think Heraclitus was already aware enough of that. We had not to wait for Darwin. But when you have to give a "meaning" to change, to define its direction, then, literally, things change. So, evolutionary biologists can say what they like, but in my world the appropriate use of words is the necessary foundation of a sincere mind. Words are bullets, and they are often even more harmful. By the way, I really can't in any way give a meaning, any kind of meaning, to the apparent flux in Miller's consciousness. My distaste for TEs and for their champions is growing ever greater, if possible.gpuccio
February 23, 2008
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Jerry, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard! Universal Common Descent is considered to be "the fact of evolution". Universal Common Descent is vastly more than change in allele frequency. Change in allele frequency doesn't even begin to address the question of where alleles come from. Lastly, ID, at least Behe style, only challenges the blind watchmaker thesis. If the blind watchmaker thesis is not what scientists are referring to when they talk of evolution then they should quit persecuting the obviously mainstream Behe.bFast
February 22, 2008
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DLH, I have seen the list of definitions you posted at least 50 times before and it is why there is no common understanding of the term. Number 2 is the official term that evolutionary biology uses and as I said above there is no reason not to accept it as the official one and refer to the others as ways the definition get misused or how they are used in polite conversation. Only #2 is precise enough for a scientific definition and the others as such just get in the way. So I suggest that we abandon these other 5 definitions so that we can be precise. Meyers and Keas have done a disservice by listing them as alternatives. I understood one of the reasons for constructing the list was to show how the term gets misused. But they should have listed #2 as the only true definition. Now I do not expect people here to abandon their favorite definition because they have too much emotional attachment to some of the other definitions. However, none besides #2 is a scientific definitions. I do not like the definition of micro evolution because there are micro evolution processes that lead to new species. There is really no good definition of micro evolution or macro evolution. In fact if you read some of the definitions there is a gap between the two which is not defined. Douglas Futuyma's text book on evolutionary biology calls each a vague concept and I agree.jerry
February 22, 2008
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The National Academy of Science defines:
Evolution: Change in the hereditary characteristics of groups of organisms over the course of generations. (Darwin referred to this process as "descent with modification.")
Microevolution: Changes in the traits of a group of organisms that do not result in a new species.
Definition of Science : The use of evidence to construct testable explanations and predictions of natural phenomena, as well as the knowledge generated through this process.
Macroevolution The Russian entomologist Iuri'i Filipchenko (or Philipchenko) coined the terms macroevolution and microevolution in 1927 in Variabilität und Variation (in German). Dobzhansky defined in English:
"we are compelled at the present level of knowledge reluctantly to put a sign of equality between the mechanisms of macro- and microevolution"
Modern Synthesis, Genetics and the Origin of Species, (1937) New York: Columbia University Press. In 1994, the NAS set up sessions on MicroEvolution and Macroevolution at the Arthur M. Sackler Colloquia Macroevolution continues to be used by evolutionists. e.g. see the book: Macroevolution: Diversity, Disparity, Contingency: Essays in Honor of Stephen Jay Gould, Editors Elisabeth S. Vrba & Niles Eldredge, ISBN: 1891276492. Stephen C. Meyer and Michael Newton Keas in Meanings of Evolution review the: "Principal Meanings of Evolution in Biology Textbooks: *1. Change over time; history of nature; any sequence of events in nature *2. Changes in the frequencies of alleles in the gene pool of a population *3. Limited common descent: the idea that particular groups of organisms have descended from a common ancestor. *4. The mechanisms responsible for the change required to produce limited descent with modification; chiefly natural selection acting on random variations or mutations *5. Universal common descent: the idea that all organisms have descended from a single common ancestor. *6. Blind watchmaker thesis: the idea that all organisms have descended from common ancestors through unguided, unintelligent, purposeless, material processes such as natural selection acting on random variations or mutations; the idea that the Darwinian mechanism of natural selection acting on random variation, and other similarly naturalistic mechanisms, completely suffice to explain the origin of novel biological forms and the appearance of design in complex organisms." John Wilkins similarly discusses: Macroevolution: Its Definition, Philosophy and History Thus with Kenneth Miller, keep distinguishing between Intelligent Design by intelligent agents versus Macroevolution, rather than "evolution". PS Feb 23, 2008 added NAS definition of "Evolution"DLH
February 22, 2008
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StephenB, There is a specific definition of evolution from which all discussion can take place. Above my comment there was dismay at no common definition. If everybody accepts this definition then why not use it and join the scientific community. No one could then say there isn't any definition and we would all be on the same page. If we use this definition, then we are a step closer to not talking past each other. However, I do not believe that most here want to be on the same page as the scientific community and really don't care if we talk past the scientific community. But until we are, criticism will fall on deaf ears and all we do is preach to the choir.jerry
February 22, 2008
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Jerry, I think you missed YEC's point. He is saying that no one would ever quibble over that definition, because there is nothing in it to cause IDs, YECs, TEs, or NDE's to disagree. It's where you go from there that makes all the difference. My point is a little different. Many of the TE's are borrowing from the ID vocabulary of teleology and design to make naturalistic evolution seem unnaturalistic. Miller is by no means the only one who is doing it. To me, that is tampering with definitions. I hold the TE's who do it responsible for muddying the waters, not the IDers who must sort through it and set the record straight. TE's (Edward Oakes, Stephen Barr, Ken Miller among others) accuse ID scientists of confusing "final cause with design." But the confusion is theirs and, for Miller at least, it appears to be willful.StephenB
February 22, 2008
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YEC, We are talking about the frequency within a populations of sometimes hundreds of millions and for human beings, billions. Thus, a single person would make zero difference in the entire human population. But there are cases where sub-populations are isolated and single births with an unwanted mutation can eventually affect the entire population. If you accept this definition then every issue in the evolution debate can be framed according to it including macro-evolution and the origin of multi-cellular organism which is where most of the debate is. There seems little to debate within micro-evolution as Darwinian processes are readily accepted there. If you want to quibble with the definition then you will have to take on the whole genetics, medical and biological communities. There are some here who have such a mentality.jerry
February 22, 2008
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"Evolutionary biology is usually very clear on its definition of evolution. It is any change in the allele frequency of a population over time." Every time an organism is born or dies the allele frequency of a population changes. If that's what evolution is, then noone would be arguing about it.YEC
February 22, 2008
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Evolutionary biology is usually very clear on its definition of evolution. It is any change in the allele frequency of a population over time. Many here don't like that definition but it is the official definition of the modern evolutionary theory (MET). It is ID people as well as others who promote the various other definitions to fit the popular understanding of evolution or their argument at the moment. If a Darwinist uses a different definition then the MET one then should be called on it but since ID has a myriad of interpretations it would be hard to do so. If ID accepted the MET definition there would be more discipline in the discussions and arguments but no one here does. So expect people talking past each other as a result.jerry
February 22, 2008
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StephenB- I should have quoted DLH more clearly- "“Evolution” is defined so broadly as to prevent refutation." Is the first sentence of the OP. In addition I have always said that perhaps the theory of evolution isn't what is being debated- rather it is what evolutionists are doing with it that is being questioned.Joseph
February 22, 2008
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-----Joseph writes, “Evolution” is defined so broadly as to prevent refutation. Yes, indeed, this is a major strategy that Darwinists use all of the time. Notice also their reciprocal strategy of deconstructing and reconstructing well-defined terms from ID scientists. Thus, their undefined terms leave us with no target to hit while our own painstaking precision provides them with concrete and meaningful paradigms that can be remade into vulnerable strawmen.StephenB
February 22, 2008
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Ok that answers my question. Like Gil, I thought the Church could issue a statement saying Miller doesn't speak for us, or something like that. Have a great weekend folks.PannenbergOmega
February 22, 2008
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-----Gil writes, "The Catholic church really should issue a comment on this guy, since he has effectively set himself up as a spokesman for the Catholic faith, and he is a very poor representative." Miller is just the tip of the iceberg. Consider Travis, From Florida State, who was included in DHL's earlier post on "evolving" definitions. The Church as its own fifth column on the inside, a large group of dissidents who don't accept Church teachings but prefer to publicize their Catholicism nevertheless. The name of the game is to exploit their status as nominal Catholics. They often promote radical secular causes, and it serves their purpose to appear less secular and less radical that they really are. Also, their arguments are not very persuasive. So, they use the Chruch to gain a little extra credibility by saying "but I'm a Catholic, so how can I be a secularist ideologue." Obviously, they are not concerned about the fact that they damage the credibility of the same institution that they are using for cover.StephenB
February 22, 2008
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Let's see- Is there any scientific data which demonstrates that living organisms arose from non-living matter via non-telic processes? No Is there any scientific data that can connect the genetic differences to the observed physiological and anatomical differences (for example between two allegedly closely related species such as chimps & humans)? No “Evolution” is defined so broadly as to prevent refutation. It's called Equivocation & EvolutionJoseph
February 22, 2008
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Gil, basically, nearly a billion people worldwide have some relationship or other with the Catholic Church that causes them to be called or to call themselves Catholics. If the Vatican got involved every time one of them said something dumb or outrageous near a mike, no one would get anything else done. Usually, the Church gets involved when the person in question has TEACHING authority (and even then mainly when they are someone important and causing a lot of trouble). As for Miller, he is a popular Darwin flak with no teaching authority. If people believe him, they do so on their own advice and must accept any consequences. – cheers, DenyseO'Leary
February 22, 2008
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You'd think, as a supposed TE, Miller's attitude would be 'let's argue that ID as a science is incorrect, but that the design people see in nature may well be real and the result of secondary causes'. Instead he's playing what is basically a shell game with words. Interesting tact for a scientist to take. Science and truth needs spin? Or maybe this fight isn't about the science. Maybe it never was.nullasalus
February 21, 2008
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bFast Miller's statements are a classic example of Orwell's Doublethink in 1984
The keyword here is BLACKWHITE. Like so many Newspeak words, this word has two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to BELIEVE that black is white, and more, to KNOW that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary.. . . DOUBLETHINK means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
------------------ Such is the power of Darwinian thought control.DLH
February 21, 2008
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Sorry, obviously I meant pro-ID (not pro-life) Christians.StephenB
February 21, 2008
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I would say that the term “Trojan Horse” is an apt metaphor. Miller’s special TE stratagem becomes more and more disingenuous: Twist the meanings of words as a PR ploy to mislead the public about evolution; describe the process as “guided,” “unguided,” or both, depending on the demographics of the audience; invoke religion and God to appear oh, so reasonable; define purposelessness and randomness in teleological terms; insist that “design” is “inherent in the evolutionary process” but is, nevertheless, illusory and undetectable; declare ID as pseudo-science while hijacking its main principle. TE’s (I prefer Christian Darwinists) seem to be in two main categories. Some believe that [a] God was involved as a first cause, working in and through secondary causes, biological processes, and what “appears” as random events or [b] that God established only the original conditions for human evolution, leaving the details to be worked out by chance. Either of these stories could be true, of course. We don’t know what happened. The problem is that these ideologues will not allow ID to come to the table and tell their story. In that sense, they are all on the same team. I sincerely hope that some the enablers from the ID camp will stop trying to “understand” these people and take off the gloves. I’ve said it before, and I will say it again. The real damage to ID comes not from obvious kooks, but from the soul selling, split-the-difference, have-it-both-ways Christians. Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are gnats to be swatted away; Miller and his ilk are roaring lions that devour potentially pro-life Christians and convert them to fierce anti-ID zealots.StephenB
February 21, 2008
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From post # 18, Miller:
and, finally, de novo gene origination. Every one of these is a distinctly different molecular mechanism that results in the generation of new genetic information. None of them requires a designer, curiously.
Hmmm, de nuvo gene origination doesn't require a designer? Not bad eh?bFast
February 21, 2008
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crandaddy
As long as he clings to his materialism, the most he can say that it looks very much as if it were designed,. . .
I agree with your statement. However, it appears Miller will try to rewrite the definition to say that the complexity we see in biology IS "evolutionary design" formed purely by materialistic causes as "confirmed" by "science". With the large platform of his biology textbooks, there is a major danger that many will accept that unthinkingly.DLH
February 21, 2008
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Kenneth Miller holds warm fuzzy feelings about a “creator” as some nebulous cause behind a mechanistic evolution by which he believes all life came to be. Miller is adamantly opposed to any “intelligent designer” as a source of information in biology. E.g., See Kenneth Miller’s testimony in “Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District: Trial transcript: Day 1 (September 26), AM Session, Part 1
"Richard Dawkins, for example, has been eloquent in saying that for him, understanding that life and the origin of species has a material cause frees him from the need to believe in a divine being." "I don't know if I've been as eloquent as Richard Dawkins, but I have worked very hard in my own way to say that for me, the notion that we are united in a great chain of being with every other living thing on this planet confirms my faith in a divine purpose and in a divine plan and means that when I go to church on Sunday, I thank the creator for this wonderful and bounteous earth and for the process of evolution that gave rise to such beauty and gave rise to such diversity that surrounds us. Those are my sentiments, in the same way that Dawkins' are his. But I'm not speaking scientifically, and I'm not speaking as a scientist, and that's, I think, the critical distinction."
Trial transcript: Day 1 (September 26), AM Session, Part 2
"And what you see on this table are a series of mechanisms by which new genetic information can arise. You'll notice the top one, the area up here talks about exon shuffling. The next one, gene duplication, then retroposition, mobile genetic elements, lateral gene transfer, gene fusion and fish, and, finally, de novo gene origination. Every one of these is a distinctly different molecular mechanism that results in the generation of new genetic information. None of them requires a designer, curiously.. . ."
"But if one proposes to students the existence of an intelligent designer who used his skill and craft and cunning to encode this information and to produce perfectly-designed organisms, the fact that most of them go extinct is an embarrassment. And, in fact, you know, an intelligent designer who designed things, 99.9 percent of which didn't last, certainly wouldn't be very intelligent."
DLH
February 21, 2008
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Miller said, "People want to believe that life isn't purposeless and random." People WANT to believe that life isn't purposeless and random? What does this suggest? It suggests that life is purposeless and random, but people are deluded into thinking that it isn't. Miller is a complete enigma to me. He claims to be a Catholic Christian, but denies the foundational tenets of his faith, that humankind was created with design and purpose. What's going on with this guy? Is it book sales? Is it fame, pride, being in the spotlight, being adored by those who want to use him to demonstrate that purposeless Darwinism is thoroughly compatible with Catholicism? The Catholic church really should issue a comment on this guy, since he has effectively set himself up as a spokesman for the Catholic faith, and he is a very poor representative.GilDodgen
February 21, 2008
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Is Miller becoming an ID proponent? After spreading so many lies about ID and the claims of ID proponents, it seems highly unlikely. So now the tactic is to defuse the design argument, but Miller is not the first (e.g., The Tinkerer's Accomplice, by Turner). The choices are clear: There is indeed an appearance of design in biology. That there is such an appearance seems to be almost universally recognized. Which leaves us with two options: The appearance of design is illusory. The appearance of design is real and actual, not merely an appearance. It seems that some biologists are beginning to see the design in life as real and actual, and not an illusion. But who, or what, is "the designer"? Can Kenneth Miller change his stripes? Without a miracle, I think not.Mung
February 21, 2008
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Miller will join seven other experts to discuss ways to craft communication efforts around evolution, stem cell research, climate change and nanotechnology that are sensitive to religious communities while remaining true to the belief that any "design" in nature is solely a result of blind materialistic forces leading to greater numerical quantities of purely chance originated variations in which no purpose, intelligence or planning was even conceptualy possible. Mung
February 21, 2008
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What Miller apparently doesn't realize (or doesn't want to admit) is that unless he embraces the total package of real intentionality-derived design that ID sells, he's stuck with design as merely a fiction. As long as he clings to his materialism, the most he can say that it looks very much as if it were designed, but he can never claim actual design on materialistic grounds. But, of course, people have always known that life looks designed! This is nothing more than a rhetorical selling point.crandaddy
February 21, 2008
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"That’s why the intelligent design movement wins the emotional battle for adherents despite its utter lack of scientific support." What is he talking about 'utter lack of scientific support.' This comes from the archetypal Darwinist hack.PannenbergOmega
February 21, 2008
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