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Miracles and the Principle of Causality

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In a prior post EJ wrote:  “I think natural intelligences are to be preferred above supernatural intelligences in design detection, for the simple reason that we have experience with the former, but not the latter.” 

I replied:  “Says who? You are repeating Hume’s error of circular reasoning. “Miracles do not happen because they are counter to universal experience.”  In other words, “miracles do not happen because miracles do not happen.”  That may satisfy you and Hume.  Those who would like to have their conclusions demonstrated rather than assumed might not be as impressed.” 

Then evo_materialist wrote:  “BarryA, you may have experience with miracles.  Alas, I do not, and neither has anybody I know in a way that’s not better explained naturally.” 

Pace evo’s comment, I never said I personally have had experience with miracles.  My comment is a matter of the application of logic to EJ’s (and Hume’s before him) position.  In other words, my point is that Hume’s position fails on logical grounds, not because my experience is different from his.   

Hume (and EJ and Evo) asserts a univeral principle of natural law, which Karl Popper calls ‘the principle of causality.’

This is what Karl Popper says about this principle in The Logic of Scientific Discovery (which, as far as I know, is the only scientific text with the force of law in the United States): 

“The ‘principle of causality’ is the assertion that any event whatsoever can be causally explained – that it can be deductively predicted . . . If . . . ‘can’ is meant to signify that the world is governed by strict laws, that it is so constructed that every specific event is an instance of a universal regularity or law, then the assertion is admittedly synthetic.  But in this case is not falsifiable . . . I shall, therefore, neither adopt nor reject the ‘principle of causality’; I shall be content simply to exclude it, as ‘metaphysical’, from the sphere of science.” 

Hume and EJ and Evo think they are being “scientific” when they reject miracles a priori.  But as Popper convincingly demonstrates, they are merely showing their metaphysical prejudices.   

Moreover, the premise of Hume’s statement is incorrect.  His premise is that the universal experince of the human race is that miracles do not occur.  This is not true.  Miracles have been reported and many people believe those miracles actually occurred.  For example, a man reportedly rose from the dead outside the city of Jerusalem circa 33 AD.  Of the 6.6 billion people on the earth, approximately 2 billion people believe this account. 

My point is not to argue that Jesus actually rose from the dead (I personally believe that he did).  My point is that Hume’s statement should be modifed to read:  “In the universal experience of the human race miracles do not occur if one rejects a priori all of the accounts of miracles that we have.”  Again, this argument is quite circular, because Hume assumed a priori the very conclusion he wished to demonstrate.   

Again, while I personally believe that miracles occur, my personal belief is quite beside the point.  My point is that those who assert that miracles do not occur usually believe they are speaking with the authority of science.  Popper says not so.  The statement “miracles do not occur” is just as metaphysical as the statement “miracles occur.” 

Comments
Evo points out that the Logic of Scientific Discovery is not a scientific text but a philosophical one. Well, it's a text on the philosophy of science, but I grant your narrow point. Evo asks about my statement that "Logic" has the force of law: "do you mean “force of law” literally? I’d love to understand how that works." Yes, I mean that literally. The courts have adopted Popper's falsification demarcation as the Establishment Clause dividing line between what can and cannot be taught in the public schools in the United States. I do not misunderstand you Evo. You seem to misunderstand me. You made a statement of supposed universal truth based on inductive reasoning. My point (and Popper's) is directed precisely at this inductive approach. Your experience and your metaphysical prejudices do not establish truth. My point is very narrow and simple. Your statement “miracles do not occur” is not a scientific statement. It is a metaphysical one.BarryA
April 25, 2008
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TomRiddle:
Newton at one time just assumed that God threw in a correction factor every now and then to re-adjust the planets. This of course was later discovered to be wrong. There was a natural, mathematical reason for this. However, Newton jumped the gun.
Tom, I know that I am about to use your statement make a point that is off the topic that you were addressing. However, I think it very on the topic of ID. I see a glaring reality in your above statement, a glaring reality that proves that science need not be bound to "methodological naturalism". It is this -- Newton's non-naturalistic hypothesis that "God threw in a correction factor every now and then" has proven to be falsifiable. As such, it was a valid scientific hypothesis! Hmmm, science need not be bound to methodological naturalism because falsifiable non-naturalistic hypothesees are possible.bFast
April 25, 2008
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Air travel is a violation of the laws of nature; and as a firm and unalterable experiece has established these laws, the proof aganst air travel, from the very nature of the fact, is as entire as any argument from experience can possibly be imagined.allanius
April 25, 2008
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evo_materialist, I am positive many many such miracles were faked.I would go as far as to say most even. Due to the nature of what I saw and the person involved, there is no room for doubt for a person that has the facts. The woman was the wife of a very well known business woman in the area, her condition was well known, as she had over an inch of extra sole on one shoe and walked funny. This event also took place very near the end of the evening when the majority of people had left. Bad timing if it was just for show and tell. The woman is healed to this day. I would have also thrown in my own back injury that was healed. I lifted a rally car when I was 14, injured my back, had severe pain for many years. I continually asked for prayer for my back. One day, after an average Joe, not a leader or faith healer, laid hands on my back and prayed a simple prayer, all pain left and my back has been fine ever since. Is it possible that it was coincidence and my back just perhaps popped back to where it should be and no miracle was involved? Sure, I can accept that. But being a first hand witness to a woman's leg growing in front of my eyes, I also have to accept that it may just have been a miracle too.Gods iPod
April 25, 2008
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"I think natural intelligences are to be preferred above supernatural intelligences" The problem here is that it presupposes that there is a difference. The only thing about a human intelligence that isn't "supernatural" is that it is generally confined to a specific location. I think this is the heart of the issue - materialists view the material world as being everything - and therefore specifically the mind is a material item in the world. But if instead the mind was a spiritual/creative force instead of a physical one, then there is no reason to draw a distinction between a natural intelligent agent and a supernatural one, except perhaps in scope, extent, and ability, at least for the purposes of being an intelligence. For example, the paper "Quantum physics in neuroscience and psychology: a neurophysical model of mind–brain interaction" argues for the mind being essentially an amplifier for the will by providing a concentration of quantum indeterminancy which can be exploited by a will. In such a model, the will is outside the system, but essentially limited to operation within the brain. Where is the reasoning to disallow a will whose operation is not so limited, and exploiting quantum indeterminancies elsewhere?johnnyb
April 25, 2008
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Yes, I've seen pastors, evangelists and other Christians calling out hidden sins or undiagnosed diseases of certain individuals in some of the churches I've visited. I remember a visiting evangelist lady from Puerto Rico who had to stop in the middle of a worship song because she had fallen under a powerful impression that a woman in the congregation was suffering from cancer of the vagina. She urgently called this individual out for prayer, but no one responded. There were about eighty (80) worshippers or so gathered that day. Imagine the embarrassment. But with God, no disease is sacrosanct. After about two minutes of suspenseful waiting and wondering whether this dear old evangelist lady had gotten herself worked up to some demential charade, a woman stood up from the middle aisle only to be told that she was not the one with the dreaded sickness. I was flabbergasted. How did the evangelist lady know? I was fifteen years old back then, and the memory still burns in my conscience. I thought, this time this poor woman (the evangelist lady from Puerto Rico) is really going to fall and look silly. I mean, what are the odds? But the evangelist lady was insistent. THERE WAS SOMEONE WITH CANCER THAT NEEDED PRAYER, from a specific body part, no less. Minutes passed by. It looked like all was a failure, a delusionary farce, but if it wasn’t for the evangelist lady’s rock-solid conviction that someone was indeed suffering from a horrifying malady, and and urgent constancy, I think someone in the church would have put an end to it. And then... There she was. Running like a little child from the back alley towards the altar. In sobs, she revealed her frightful ordeal. There was no jumping up and down, no clapping, no mindless celebratory innervations... just a hushed reverence over something that had taken place that is beyond the control of mere mortals.JPCollado
April 25, 2008
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BarryA Please provide links / references to your statement: "This is what Karl Popper says about this principle in The Logic of Scientific Discovery (which, as far as I know, is the only scientific text with the force of law in the United States)" I am intrigued.DLH
April 25, 2008
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evo_materialist: Can you cite anything you know absolutely? You are making the same mistake as the Logical Positivists made: ( I am paraphrasing here )--For anything to have meaning or to be considered true it must be verified empirically. Can that statement be verified empirically? Of course not.toc
April 25, 2008
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I am what you would call a second-hand witness. I am personally acquainted with a few people who have themselves been witnesses of astonishing miracles. Unless you consider someone revealing the secrets of your hearts as a miracle, then go ahead and count me in as a first-hand witness.JPCollado
April 25, 2008
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Interesting post. I like! I have to say, I have what's probably an odd view of miracles - I don't believe they're the violations of natural law, nor are they simple 1 in 1000000 (or higher) events. For all I know, every miracle - from virgin birth, to resurrection, to even Gods iPod's example - can both be a miracle, yet a part of nature. After all, from the perspective of God, I doubt anything is surprising or unusual. Perhaps singular, perhaps 'meant as a sign'.nullasalus
April 25, 2008
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Having grown up in the age of video games, I've never understood the objection to the possibility of miracles. Programmers create laws that a virtual world operates according to. If they wish the programmers can easily modify, temporarily suspend, or if they choose, abolish any part of the programming code responsible for the laws. For example, I remember back in the days of the original Nintendo system there was a "game genie" which you could attach to your game and access all sorts of special abilities or cheats. In Mario Bros. for example, there is a law of gravity of sorts; you can jump but you will always come back down after a certain height. With the game genie you can "break" the law of gravity in the game and jump higher. This seems to me a fairly good analogy in that if God did create the laws he should not have any trouble further modifying them as he chooses. And no, it does not necessarily entail mass chaos, as my experience with modifying virtual worlds demonstrates. As long as God leaves the rest of the laws intact and only changes a few temporarily, what possible logical objection could there be? We have direct experience of humans modifying laws within their created worlds. Why cannot God do the same? And Evo, there are plenty of things each of us have never experienced, but that of course does not mean that they have not happened to others and or have happened sometime in the history of the world. Induction has its limits.jlid
April 25, 2008
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The leg growing "miracle" has been a favorite of faith healers for decades. Who knew there were all those people with one leg shorter than another? Hundreds get cured every week in the United States alone. But such a "miracle" is easily faked and just as easily debunked; James Randi has been debunking it for decades and showing precisely how it's done.evo_materialist
April 25, 2008
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Good post Barry.Atom
April 25, 2008
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Gods iPod, I would never propose to call you a liar, as I trust your recording of events. But, I have struggled with this for a long time, and that is what makes ID difficult to really get my hands around. Miracles assume that God steps into the natural world and intervenes. Thats fine. However, I think people should not be so quick to assume this happens in our our lifetime. Maybe one in a 100 years? Newton at one time just assumed that God threw in a correction factor every now and then to re-adjust the planets. This of course was later discovered to be wrong. There was a natural, mathematical reason for this. However, Newton jumped the gun. In the same way, did God have to come in and throw a correction factor in for the bacterial flagellum? Or, have the natural processes just been working and we haven't discovered it yet. Or, perhaps there is a "front loading" in place that causes things to happen. I wonder the same for miracles. Every now and then you hear about someone who's cancer goes away. But, the question is, is it a miracle, or over the course of a decade, is there about .0001 probability that cancer cells will just die out? Also, nowadays, if you have ovarian cancer there is a chance you will live. But, in the 1930s, if you had ovarian cancer you would die - period. Is is correct to assume that when someone is cured of ovarian cancer that it is a miracle, or is it due to medicine? If its a miracle, then you should expect to have seen cures of ovarian cancer in the 1930s. Yes, I know these are theological questions, but the idea of miracles was raised in this thread, and this conundrom has always perplexed me. So, I thought I'd ask :-)TomRiddle
April 25, 2008
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What is a miracle? It is an event with no naturalistic explanation or cause. Therefore, the origin of the universe is by definition a miracle. Since matter, energy, space, and time all came into existence at the birth of the universe, there was no "nature" to provide a naturalistic explanation or cause for this event. Do I believe in miracles? Of course, because I know of one that happened for sure, and on the grandest scale imaginable.GilDodgen
April 25, 2008
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I PERSONALLY have witnessed a bona-fide New Testament-level miracle. I don't expect you to believe on my say-so, but I have witnessed, not on a stage a hundred feet away, but less than 10 feet away, a woman's leg grow about 1 1/2 inches. She was born with one leg shorter than the other. There was no song and dance, no raised voices, no spectacle, just a short request to God to heal her leg, and it did. In front of my eyes. So yes, I believe in miracles.Gods iPod
April 25, 2008
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One in one million? Dyson must have had an odd definition for miracle.Patrick
April 25, 2008
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How is Popper's The Logic of Scientific Discovery "the only scientific text with the force of law in the United States"? It's not a scientific text but a philosophical one. Also, do you mean "force of law" literally? I'd love to understand how that works. It certainly has nothing like the force of law in the philosophy of science (its proper domain). In any event, you misunderstand me. My reasoning is not circular but inductive. To wit: I have not experienced miracles. Nobody I know has experienced miracles. As far as I can tell, all stories of the miraculous either crumble under close investigation or are set in the distant past and therefore not subject to close investigation. My disbelief in miracles is akin to my belief that the sun will rise tomorrow (and yes, it doesn't really "rise"): I don't know for certain that it will happen, but to put stock in the alternative would be silly.evo_materialist
April 25, 2008
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"...the total number of events that happen to us is about thirty thousand per day, or about a million per month. ...The chance of a miracle is about one per million events. Therefore we should expect about one miracle to happen, on the average, every month." - Freeman DysonPannenbergOmega
April 25, 2008
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