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On “Specified Complexity,” Orgel and Dembski

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Bill Dembski often uses the term “specified complexity” to denote a characteristic of patterns that are best explained by the act of an intelligent designer. He defines the term as follows:

What is specified complexity? An object, event, or structure exhibits specified complexity if it is both complex (i.e., one of many live possibilities) and specified (i.e., displays an independently given pattern). A long sequence of randomly strewn Scrabble pieces is complex without being specified. A short sequence spelling the word “the” is specified without being complex. A sequence corresponding to a Shakespearean sonnet is both complex and specified.

William A. Dembski, No Free Lunch: Why Specified Complexity Cannot Be Purchased without Intelligence (Lanham: Rowman & Littlefield, 2002), xiii.

 

Dembski does not claim to have originated the concept of specified complexity:

The term specified complexity is about thirty years old. To my knowledge origin-of-life researcher Leslie Orgel was the first to use it. In his 1973 book The Origins of Life he wrote: “Living organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals such as granite fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; mixtures of random polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity” (189). More recently, Paul Davies (1999, 112) identified specified complexity as the key to resolving the problem of life’s origin: “Living organisms are mysterious not for their complexity per se, but for their tightly specified complexity.”

The Logical Underpinnings of Intelligent Design

Is there a relationship between Leslie Orgel’s use of the term and Dembski’s. Yes, Dembski explains the relationship as follows:

Neither Orgel nor Davies, however, provided a precise analytic account of specified complexity. I provide such an account in The Design Inference (1998b) and its sequel No Free Lunch (2002). In this section I want briefly to outline my work on specified complexity. Orgel and Davies used specified complexity loosely. I’ve formalized it as a statistical criterion for identifying the effects of intelligence.

Id.

In summary, Orgel and Davies used the concept of specified complexity loosely. Dembski takes the concept they used loosely and formalizes it. One must be willfully obtuse, however, to fail to see the connection between the way Dembski uses the term and the way Orgel uses the term.

Dembski:

A long sequence of randomly strewn Scrabble pieces is complex without being specified.
A short sequence spelling the word “the” is specified without being complex.
A sequence corresponding to a Shakespearean sonnet is both complex and specified.

Orgel:

Mixtures of random polymers are complex without being specified.
Crystals such as granite are specified without being complex.
Living organisms are both complex and specified.

Yes, Orgel used the term more loosely than Dembski, but they are talking about the same concept. That is why Dembski repeatedly connects the term with Orgel and Davies in No Free Lunch.

When intelligent agents act, they leave behind a characteristic trademark or signature-what I define as specified complexity. [FN13] The complexity-specification criterion detects design by identifying this trademark of designed objects.
No Free Lunch, 6
[FN13]: The term “specified complexity” goes back at least to 1973, when Leslie Orgel used it in connection with origins-of-life research: “Living organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals such as granite fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; mixtures of random polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity.” See Orgel, The Origins of Life (New York: Wiley, 1973 ), 189. The challenge of specified complexity to nonteleological accounts of life’s origin continues to loom large. Thus according to Paul Davies, “Living organisms are mysterious not for their complexity per se, but for their tightly specified complexity.” See Paul Davies, The Fifth Miracle (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1999), 112.

And

The central problem of biology is therefore not simply the origin of information but the origin of complex specified information. Paul Davies emphasized this point in his recent book The Fifth Miracle where he summarizes the current state of origin-of-life research: “Living organisms are mysterious not for their complexity per se, but for their tightly specified complexity.” The problem of specified complexity has dogged origin-of-life research now for decades. Leslie Orgel recognized the problem in the early 1970s: “Living organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals such as granite fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; mixtures of random polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity.” [FN33]
No Free Lunch, 149
[FN33]: Leslie Orgel, The Origins of Life (New York: Wiley, 1973), 189.

And

In The Fifth Miracle Davies goes so far as to suggest that any laws capable of explaining the origin of life must be radically different from any scientific laws known to date.3 The problem, as he sees it, with currently known scientific laws, like the laws of chemistry and physics, is that they cannot explain the key feature of life that needs to be explained.   That feature is specified complexity. As Davies puts it: “Living organisms are mysterious not for their complexity per se, but for their tightly specified complexity.” [FN 5]
No Free Lunch, 180
[FN5] Davies, Fifth Miracle, 112. Consider also the following claim by Leslie Orgel: “Living organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals such as granite fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; mixtures of random polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity.” In Leslie Orgel, The Origins of Life (New York: John Wiley, 1973), 189.

And

The term “specified complexity” has been in use for about thirty years. The first reference to it with which I am familiar is from Leslie Orgel’s 1973 book The Origins of Life, where specified complexity is treated as a feature of biological systems distinct from inorganic systems. [FN35]
No Free Lunch, 328-29.
[FN 35] Leslie Orgel, The Origins of Life (New York: Wiley, 1973 ), 189.

UPDATE (HT to Mung):

Orgel on Specified Complexity

Crystals are usually taken as the prototypes of simple well specified structures…Lumps of granite or random mixtures of polymers are examples of structures which are complex but not specified.

p. 189

Wait for it …

These vague idea can be made more precise by introducing the idea of information. Roughly speaking, the information content of a structure is the minimum number of instructions needed to specify the structure. One can see intuitively that many instructions are needed to specify a complex structure. On the other hand a simple repeating structure can be specified in rather few instructions. Complex but random structures, by definition, need hardly be specified at all.

– p. 190

A final nail:

Paley was right to emphasize the need for special explanations of the existence of objects with high information content, for they cannot be formed in nonevolutionary, inorganic processes.

– p. 196

Comments
Joe 54
In “No Free Lunch” Dembski has a proof that necessity and chance cannot produce CSI
Can you summarize his proof? If not, that's ok (understandable if it's too complex).Silver Asiatic
November 25, 2014
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Zachriel @ 53 Yes, I discussed that alternative definition in #48. If probability is included in the definition of CSI, then that's a problem, as I see it. If CSI is a scientific observation of information, then you're objection is not relevant - and your story-line on the haunted house doesn't follow. You'd use ordinary forensic techniques to determine if there is information present. You don't need probability calculations to observe information.Silver Asiatic
November 25, 2014
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Zachriel- We believe that equation is to see if the specification warrants a design inferenceJoe
November 25, 2014
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Silver Asiatic- In "No Free Lunch" Dembski has a proof that necessity and chance cannot produce CSIJoe
November 25, 2014
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Silver Asiatic: Right – we observe information first. The problem is the changeable nature of the calculation of specified complexity. Using Dembski's definition: chi = – log2 [ 10 ^ –120 * phi~S(T) * P(T|H) ] , and taking P(T|H) to refer to a standard probability distribution:
Today, William got an incredible deal on an old Victorian house. Highly satisfied with his business acumen, William settled in for a blissful night of sleep in his new home. SLAM! William woke with a start. He listened intently. But he didn’t hear anything, so he settled back to sleep. Cree..eak William listened even more closely this time until, after a bit, the creaking noise died away. For some reason, he recalled the seller’s maniacal laughter just after William signed the papers to buy the house. SLAM! William was trembling and his teeth were rattling. He thought about getting out of bed to investigate. Instead, he pulled the covers over his head. Cree..eak Hmm, William thought. Being a design theoretician, I can use the patented (not really) Dembski Inference to determine if the pattern is being caused by a ghost, er some unspecified intelligent cause. SLAM! Cree..eak SLAM! Cree..eak SLAM! Cree..eak SLAM! Cree..eak …
edit: chi = specified complexityZachriel
November 25, 2014
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To avoid some known-tricks in the above: "If we have 500 two-sided coins lined up in a repeating pattern of all heads ..." That's what I was referring to.Silver Asiatic
November 25, 2014
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Robb #49
If we have 500 coins lined up in a repeating pattern of all heads, is that an instance of specified complexity, according to Orgel’s usage of the term?
Yes, that is specified complexity. It's not as highly complex as information that serves an observable function, but it does show specificity since it aligns geometrically ("coins lined up") and matches known informational pattern (uniform, repeated signal) and organization. So there is some level of information communicated in that pattern. It's CSI. Now that we've observed that, we can search for sources of its origin and calculate probabilities on that. If someone can show that 500 heads can be lined up via a natural process, then ID is falsified. If not, then we detected design and ID is validated.Silver Asiatic
November 25, 2014
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Zachriel, How much research do you do? And do you think that Michael Behe keeps his job by publishing ID books? Or by publishing in mainstream journals? I know that those papers are not usually ID papers. But he and Dembski have put their careers and reputations on the line by espousing a controversial theory. They have more courage than me and you, I'd wager.Collin
November 25, 2014
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Mung @ 40, yes, well-quoted. Thank you. So I'll ask the following again: If we have 500 coins lined up in a repeating pattern of all heads, is that an instance of specified complexity, according to Orgel's usage of the term? Anyone is welcome to answer.R0bb
November 25, 2014
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Joe # 33
The term “complex specified information” is used so that people understand that the information being discussed is the same as the information used for communication and education. Science journals and textbooks are full of CSI.
That's why ID is not a circular argument. We observe CSI - which is information. It's the same that we see in communication - coding, sender, translation, receiver, organizing. Only after that do we try to calculate probabilities. We notice that, thus far the only known source for CSI is intelligence. But this can be falsified if someone can find another source.
I like to head them off by telling them that CSI is just complex Shannon information that has meaning or function.
Exactly. We can use the tools of information science to analyze and study it.
That exclusion is saved for the proof of the concept that CSI only arises if an intelligent agency makes it so. Our opponents conflate the proof with the definition
The only thing I'm not sure about is if Dembski included a probability component in the definition of CSI. But science does not need to calculate any probabilities to observe information. Probability is needed to try to find the origin of that information.Silver Asiatic
November 25, 2014
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Mung #37
Quoting: “Once we understand more about the evolution of biological organization, we should be able to say something quantitative about the probability that life exists elsewhere in the universe."
Right - we observe information first. The key term in CSI is "Information". We observe that (the principle of biological organization) based on characteristics of information. It's only after that observation that we "say something quantitative about the probability" of the origin of that information. But I'm guessing that Debmski's alternative definition mistakenly includes a probability measure within the definition of CSI.Silver Asiatic
November 25, 2014
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Moose Dr #29 Ok, thanks. That's the kind of definition I'd use. But I mentioned this to VJ Torley and he objected that it wasn't a quantifiable (computable) definintion of CSI. For that, he proposed, you need the formula which (apparenly) includes a non-probability factor. So there are different definitions, as you said.Silver Asiatic
November 25, 2014
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Mung @40: BOOM! goes the dynamite.William J Murray
November 25, 2014
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And what is the blind watchmaker research, Zachriel? Who is conducting blind watchmaker research?Joe
November 25, 2014
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Mung: What in earth was Orgel thinking, linking biological organization to probability! Orgel wasn't claiming to know the process of abiogenesis, so he didn't claim to know the probability. Collin: Dembski’s critics aren’t interested in finding out if life is designed. Actually, virtually no research in biology is done by IDers.Zachriel
November 25, 2014
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Mung, I have updated and annotated the Orgel clip here: https://uncommondescent.com/atheism/fyi-ftr-what-about-onhs-vs-invisible-rain-fairies-salt-leprechauns-and-planet-pushing-angels-etc/ I have added links to onward discussions. KFkairosfocus
November 25, 2014
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Mung, well quoted. KF PS: And I know of the original Learned Hand.kairosfocus
November 25, 2014
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Orgel on Specified Complexity
Crystals are usually taken as the prototypes of simple well specified structures...Lumps of granite or random mixtures of polymers are examples of structures which are complex but not specified. p. 189
Wait for it ...
These vague idea can be made more precise by introducing the idea of information. Roughly speaking, the information content of a structure is the minimum number of instructions needed to specify the structure. One can see intuitively that many instructions are needed to specify a complex structure. On the other hand a simple repeating structure can be specified in rather few instructions. Complex but random structures, by definition, need hardly be specified at all. - p. 190
Oh yeah, that sounds SO UNLIKE DEMBSKI! The critics really ought to shut up now. Really. A final nail:
Paley was right to emphasize the need for special explanations of the existence of objects with high information content, for they cannot be formed in nonevolutionary, inorganic processes. - p. 196
You're welcome.Mung
November 24, 2014
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Collin, Right you are. ID is full of errors and shortcoming. Glad to see someone here at UD admit that. ;) Great quote, btw. By the way, am I the only one who thinks it a shame that the name of a great man is being tarnished here at UD daily? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_HandMung
November 24, 2014
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Mung, Dembski's critics aren't interested in finding out if life is designed. Some, like Keiths, brush it aside as trillions of times less likely than unguided evo. Teddy Roosevelt said: “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”Collin
November 24, 2014
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"Once we understand more about the evolution of biological organization, we should be able to say something quantitative about the probability that life exists elsewhere in the universe." - Orgel. 1973. p. 232 What in earth was Orgel thinking, linking biological organization to probability!Mung
November 24, 2014
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Moose Dr: Seems to me that nature had only about 1/2 billion years to create all animal life. Many fundamental organic processes preexist animal life. Moose Dr: I understand that bacteria experiments have found it about impossible to produce 2 mutational event advancements unless the first event already offers a clear advancement. That is incorrect. See Blount, Borland & Lenski, Historical contingency and the evolution of a key innovation in an experimental population of Escherichia coli, PNAS 2008. Moose Dr: So are you willing to concede that if it can be demonstrated that a CSI protein came to existence without “a broad plane of low functionality” or a nearby island of functionality from a similar protein, that this would falsify NDE? Neodarwinism is several human generations old. It's been "falsified" many times, though many basic findings still hold. If you mean there has to be a plausible evolutionary pathway, then sure. Moose Dr: So you are saying that all protein evolved from islands of other functional protein? ‘Seemed like you just said otherwise in the previous paragraph. Proteins evolve by many different mechanisms, including mutation, recombination, selection, and the reuse of motifs in novel combinations. Moose Dr: Does this really explain all orphan genes? Not at all. It shows a worst case scenario, starting from nothing and still stumbling across functional proteins. The experiment was originally made (with RNA libraries) because it was an entailment of theories of abiogenesis. It's easier if you start with bits and pieces of existing proteins. Easier still if you work with motifs.Zachriel
November 24, 2014
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Zachriel:
Selection and replication can optimize function, so it shows how specified complexity (as generally construed) can evolve.
That is intelligent design evolution. With unguided evolution "selection" is elimination and optimization is a pipe dream. So given intelligent design evolution we would expect to see specified complexity evolving. And before Zachriel gets ahead of itself, unguided evolution can't even explain the processes and systems required for making proteins. So that would be a problem, especially given the vast oceans and regardless of billions of years.Joe
November 24, 2014
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Zachriel, "They’re usually simple functions, but then again, experimenters don’t have the resources of billions of years and oceans of organisms." Billions of years is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? 'Seems to me that nature had only about 1/2 billion years to create all animal life. I understand that a 5 gallon pail can quite handily hold more bacteria than there ever has been animals on the face of the earth. I understand that about 10 years of bacteria reproduction is equivalent to the number of generations from first animal to human. I understand that bacteria experiments have found it about impossible to produce 2 mutational event advancements unless the first event already offers a clear advancement. Maybe its a bit easier to experiment in an ocean of organisms, and a bit harder to get results, than all that. "Before optimization, obviously not. After optimization, they have a great deal of specified complexity (as normally construed)." So are you willing to concede that if it can be demonstrated that a CSI protein came to existence without "a broad plane of low functionality" or a nearby island of functionality from a similar protein, that this would falsify NDE? "No. No one thinks proteins evolve from random sequences in nature. This just answers the question about islands of function." So you are saying that all protein evolved from islands of other functional protein? 'Seemed like you just said otherwise in the previous paragraph. "Evolution may often find itself on a local fitness peak, but recombination allows for moving between areas of function." You seem to be putting a lot of weight in recombination. Most of what I know of recombination (which isn't extensive, I will admit) is that it is a strategy on the part of an organism, not normally a random event. "Common enough that random sequences can form weak enzymes, that can then be optimized." How much real genetic development is so explained. How much remains unexplained. Does this really explain all orphan genes? I seem to be learning that there is a lot of orphan genetic activity.Moose Dr
November 24, 2014
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The term "complex specified information" is used so that people understand that the information being discussed is the same as the information used for communication and education. Science journals and textbooks are full of CSI. It is used so that our opponents don't try to equivocate with various misunderstandings of the word "information". I like to head them off by telling them that CSI is just complex Shannon information that has meaning or function. As you can see there isn't anything in the definition that excludes unguided processes from producing CSI. That exclusion is saved for the proof of the concept that CSI only arises if an intelligent agency makes it so. Our opponents conflate the proof with the definitionJoe
November 24, 2014
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Moose Dr: You say that there are functional proteins in random space, but functional is not what is called for. Rather, particular function is called for. That's what such experiments do. They look for pre-specified functions. They're usually simple functions, but then again, experimenters don't have the resources of billions of years and oceans of organisms. Moose Dr: (‘bet by my calculation it has vastly less than 500 bits of data) Before optimization, obviously not. After optimization, they have a great deal of specified complexity (as normally construed). Moose Dr: Is it really reasonable that the variety of real world functionality is achievable by random search? No. No one thinks proteins evolve from random sequences in nature. This just answers the question about islands of function. Moose Dr: It shows that some islands are connected. That's right. Moose Dr: Why does the NDE crowd so frequently prove that the easy case is possible, then extrapolate that all cases are possible? It was a hard case. "The two ribozyme folds share no evolutionary history and are completely different, with no base pairs (and probably no hydrogen bonds) in common." Moose Dr: First, once a protein has evolved into a high peak, it can no longer explore the broad plane for other functionality. Correct? Evolution may often find itself on a local fitness peak, but recombination allows for moving between areas of function. Moose Dr: Second, while many genes may exhibit a broad plane, is this phenomenon truly universal, or even very common? Common enough that random sequences can form weak enzymes, that can then be optimized. Moose Dr: The discovery of a new protein fold that produces new function would involve a single mutational event* from a protein with previous function. Yes? That's what Schultes & Bartel showed, that selectable pathways exist. Moose Dr: * I define mutational event broader than the point mutation, but I include any one transaction within the DNA such as an insertion, deletion, etc. Recombination is a very powerful mechanism for creating novelty.Zachriel
November 24, 2014
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Learned Hand:
I don’t think I’ve ever criticized Dembski’s definition of complexity.
Sure you did. You whined repeatedly that Dembski defines it differently than everyone else. Which is hogwash, as I have just shown. What makes you think Orgel was using it differently than everyone else?Mung
November 24, 2014
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Re: Zachriel (27) "If the specificity is only for weak functionality, then there are functional proteins in random sequences." I concede that once weak functionality is achieved, RM+NS is theoretically capable of producing strong functionality. However, I have this one question. You say that there are functional proteins in random space, but functional is not what is called for. Rather, particular function is called for. If, for instance, a protein is needed that functions to create finger nails (just as a point of reference), then a protein that functions to produce a retracting muscle is unlikely to be helpful. While it may be that some functionality is so generalized that random space produces it ('bet by my calculation it has vastly less than 500 bits of data), what about real world function. Is it really reasonable that the variety of real world functionality is achievable by random search? "Schultes & Bartel ... showed a pathway from one functional fold to another functional fold even while maintaining the original function. This shows that the so-called islands are connected." Hold the phone. No it doesn't! It shows that some islands are connected. It would appear much more effective to find a protein that has the appearance of being truly unique, with unique function and establishing how it got there. Why does the NDE crowd so frequently prove that the easy case is possible, then extrapolate that all cases are possible? When the hard cases are addressed, then your theory will become more compelling. "Think of function as a high peak with a broad plain." Two points with regard to this. First, once a protein has evolved into a high peak, it can no longer explore the broad plane for other functionality. Correct? Second, while many genes may exhibit a broad plane, is this phenomenon truly universal, or even very common? "No, because new protein folds are not that unusual, even in random sequences. Given modification of working proteins, the odds are even better." The discovery of a new protein fold that produces new function would involve a single mutational event* from a protein with previous function. Yes? So, I concede that island hopping -- where there is no land bridge is possible. However, this form of island hopping, as far as I can see, remains limited to the power of a single mutational event. * I define mutational event broader than the point mutation, but I include any one transaction within the DNA such as an insertion, deletion, etc.Moose Dr
November 24, 2014
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Silver_Asiatic (26) "Where do you mean “defined as above” – or better yet, what is the definition you’re referring to?" Please read the first 10 lines of this post -- the first block quote is Dembski's definition that I am referring to.Moose Dr
November 24, 2014
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Joe # 20 I was just asking about the definition of CSI. I didn't see the answer following in your response (although I appreciate the reply).Silver Asiatic
November 24, 2014
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